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Legal arbeitvertrag stafe

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Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/6/07 5:40 PM
Hello
I am working in xx company and from last one year working as consultant in yy company via this xx company.
Now there is an oppertunity in yy company to work as permanent employee and i like that too. But there is a problem with my xx company work contract, it says that if i change to yy company i have to pay 4 months salary plus 30000€ to xx company.

My question is: is it legal in Germany (what i mentioned above)? or its just to scare me?

Please suggest me your ideas..
Thank you
sinu
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/6/07 5:57 PM as a reply to ka sr.
@sinu
Its looks something absurd for me. I never heard anything like this. It doesnt mean that Arbeitsverstrag Strafe doesnt exit. It exists in another sense. As per my contract, it says that if I dont take up the work (after signing the contract) to the agreed date then Arbeitsverstrag Strafe is applied - Which is nothing but a maximum fine of 1 month Gross salary.

R u sure that the following is written in ur contract :

Sinu78 - "But there is a problem with my xx company work contract, it says that if i change to yy company i have to pay 4 months salary plus 30000€ to xx company."
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/6/07 7:00 PM as a reply to ka sr.
It is perfectly legal for consulting companies to have these clauses because of poaching of their employees by the clients. They are generally allowed to safe guard their business legally.

But is company "YY" written into your contract or does it say "with all our clients". If it says "with all our clients" then you may have a chance as it is very broad and they cannot deny your right to earn a living. You should consult a lawyer who should suggest how to go about this problem.
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/6/07 7:20 PM as a reply to ka sr.
Hi,
In my contract it is like this...

Aufwandsrückerstattung für Aquise, Einarbeitungs und Umsatzschaden,Wettbewerbsverbot

(1) Für die erfolgreiche Durchführung von Projekten bei Kunden leistet die Firma einen
erheblichen Aquise- und Einarbeitungsaufwand. Kündigt der Arbeitnehmer diesen
Anstellungsvertrag aufgrund seiner Kontakte und Einsichten in die Welt des Kunden, um in
vergleichbarer Funktion in die Dienste des Kunden bzw. mit ihm assoziierter Unternehmen
(Anhang 1) einzutreten, dann behält sich die Firma vor, den ihr dadurch entstandenen
Umsatzschaden sowie den entstandenen Aufwand für die Aquise und/oder Einarbeitung des
Angestellten von diesem zurückzufordern. Die von dieser Regelung betroffenen Kunden
und assoziierten Unternehmen werden in Anhang 1 aufgelistet. Anhang 1 wird dem
Angestellten bei Vertragsabschluss ausgehändigt und kann während der Laufzeit des
Vertrages jederzeit geändert werden.
(2) Die Höhe der Schadenersatzforderungen beträgt minimal 4 Monatsgehälter für den
Einarbeitungsaufwand, minimal 1 Monatsgehalt für den Aquiseaufwand und minimal
30.000,- € für den Umsatzschaden. Die Firma ist berechtigt, diese Aufwandsrückerstattung
mit offenen Gehaltszahlungen zu verrechnen.
(3) Die vorstehenden Regelungen gelten nicht, wenn im Einvernehmen zwischen der Firma,
dem Angestellten und dem Kunden sichergestellt ist, dass für den Angestellten von der
Firma ein Nachfolger eingearbeitet werden kann, ohne dass die Firma dafür
Einarbeitungskosten zu übernehmen hat.
(4) Der Angestellte unterwirft sich im Rahmen der Projektarbeit außerdem in vollem Umfang
jeweils denselben Wettbewerbsverboten, denen sich auch die Firma im Rahmen der
Vertragsgestaltung mit deren Kunden unterwirft (Anhang 2), soweit es ihn mit betrifft. Die
von den Wettbewerbsverboten betroffenen assoziierten Unternehmen werden ebenfalls in
Anhang 1 aufgelistet. Anhang 1 und 2 werden dem Angestellten bei Vertragsabschluss
ausgehändigt und können während der Laufzeit des Vertrages jederzeit geändert werden.

Anhang 1 is simply the yy company name and anhang 2 is fine details. After 11 months (One month back) i received this anhang 2 to sign, but i didnt signed till now.

please send your suggations.
thank you
sinu
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/6/07 7:24 PM as a reply to ka sr.
Hi,
@raj

in my contract there is no written statements from yy company. and i asked with my yy company Boss too, he said we dont have any contracts with your xx company.

thank you
sinu
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/7/07 2:53 PM as a reply to ka sr.
@vsls17

According to my understanding its mentioned (Please read the content of my contract..above)

Thank you
sinu
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/7/07 3:25 PM as a reply to ka sr.
sorry sinu, it is complicated to understand perfectly with my german. Hopefully someone else will answer your questions.
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/7/07 5:39 PM as a reply to ka sr.
@ sinu78

According to those paragraphs u have posted, yes you have to pay that mentioned sum if you switch to any of the Companies listed in Anhang 1.

But Whatif, if you dont say anything to ur current company and resign ur contract before 3 months and after 3 months u join the other company. In this case it is none of ur current company's business to bother what u do after resignation.

Otherwise, i thought of following :
1. Try to work out this problem together with ur boss in a friendly manner and switch to that company without paying anything.
2. If the above point doesnt works out, I would say like consulting a lawyer for possible loops holes or checkout if such a Arbeitsvertragstrafe valid according to German working laws even after working for 1 year.
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/8/07 1:00 PM as a reply to ka sr.
Hi,
Thank you Raj and @vsls17.
if anybody (or friends) is having the same contract, pls share the experience with me.

Thank you
srinivas
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/13/07 11:50 AM as a reply to ka sr.
@Sinu78

Have u contacted any lawyer for ur problem?


I have found something from wikipedia (Thought like forwading u, as i was going thru wikipedia for similar search) :
"Vertragsstrafe in Arbeitsrecht-
Die Vertragsstrafe ist im Arbeitsrecht ein Mittel, um sich die Erfüllung vertraglicher Verpflichtungen durch den Arbeitnehmer zu sichern. Denkbar ist eine derartige Maßnahme

- beim Nichtantreten einer Stelle
- beim Verlassen des Betriebes ohne Einhalten der Kündigungsfrist
- beim Verstoß gegen Verschwiegenheitspflichten

Die Vertragsstrafe muss im Arbeitsvertrag ausdrücklich formuliert und gut lesbar hervorgehoben sein. Die Höhe der Strafe ist vorher festzulegen. Sie sollte normalerweise ein Monatsgehalt nicht übersteigen.
"

According to the above definition, normally a Vertragsstrafe cannot exceed one months salary.
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/22/07 4:42 PM as a reply to ka sr.
On a first assessment the clause seems to be invalid. In that case you should only join the new employer after you have legally quit the old one (i.e by respecting the termination period).

Ravinder Jain
Rechtsanwalt
Fürstenbergerstr. 168 F
60323 Frankfurt/Main
Tel: 069-17088200
Fax:069-17088222
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/22/07 5:25 PM as a reply to ka sr.
@Sinu,
I had the similar situation like you have now, so just like to share a few things:

In your case, I would have talked to the HR of the customer and asked for advice by showing the contract. If they are egar to take you, 30K is no big deal for them for sure. Or they will handle it accordingly with your company. I would not advice you to discuss it with your own company, in case you fail to change your company it wont do any good for your future.

In general, the consulting company would not like to make things complicated otherwise they are at risk of not winning any further project from the customer. So talk to the customer.


@ Mr. Ravinder Jain,
As you are proposing yourself being a Lawyer, may I ask if you are in a relationship with Trust7 directly or just someone private?

Thank you.
xadnan
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/22/07 7:03 PM as a reply to ka sr.
Dear xadnan,

I have recently moved to Frankfurt (www.no-free-advertising-please.com ;-) but practise all around Germany. So, yes, I am private.

Regards.
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Legal arbeitvertrag stafe
Answer
11/22/07 8:33 PM as a reply to ka sr.
Dear Mr. Jain,

I realized, that you are doing a kind of advertising for yourself. Well, I accept this, because you also try to help our community members. But please do not advertise the law firm where you work.

We (trust7) are associated with http://www.vpmk.de Berlin.

I hope you will undertsand this.

Best regards from Berlin
Detlef :-)
0 (0 Votes)

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