Dear friend,

I am an Aufenthalterlaubnis (E-visa) holder working in Baden-Wuerttemberg. Some people told me that because I hold E-visa, my wife can directly work without work permit, it this true?
and if she wants to setup an Einzelunternehme or GmbH, possible?

thanks!!

you're not your wife, your status is not you wife's status, if she got a visa where it is said she can work, then fine, if not, then she can't.

D.

I do not agree with NoBody. Your wife gets automatically work rights depending on the extent of your work rights. The relevant law paragraph is §29(5)AufenthG. I do not fully understand though what kind of visa you have. Maybe you can tell us what is written there and we can try to be more specific regarding her rights.

@shoppi

read me: "*you're not your wife, your status is not you wife's status*", and I think this is true, reason why for example I got NE but my wife has to wait to acquire this status too, so, as I learned in Mathematics, to prove that something is wrong, give a counter example or to show that something is not empty, show one of its members.

"if she got a visa where it is said she can work, then fine, if not, then she can't", this is related to the one above, that's why when I had EG, my wife didn't, so she hadn't the same rights as me, so I had to make an application for her too, and that it is exactly what I meant when I said "if she got a visa", because as long as she got a visa which states something different than yours, she can't. It's not that I got EG and directly I can tell my wife to go and work.

D.

I just wanted to be more clear, because your answer did not specify anything about the possibility for his wife to get some work rights in relationship with his visa.

In your case, if you get EG, of course your wife does not work the same day, but she just has to go to ABH and pick up her EG according to §29(5). And she works in the next day ;-)...

Thanks my friends,

To be more specific, I am working in a company with normal work permit for one year now. I have permanent contract with my company, but my residence needs to be renewed very two years.
so, I don't have permanent residence in Germany.
on my passport, it says I only can work for my company. On my wife's passport, it says she's accompanying me here and she cannot work.

now she wants to work or setup her own company and there's a friend who got change her "cannot work" to "work" in the same case. and I heard it is possible for E-visa holder's wife in Baden-Wuerttemberg to work directly, but I failed to find the related law from Internet.

please help !!

I still do not understand what E-visa means. It would be really helpful to paste in here what is written there. If for some reason you don't want to do this, here is the paragraph related to the working rights of the spouses:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#29
Check there point (5).

The internal instructions for ABH about how to apply this are here:
http://www.fluecht...?op=getit&lid=122
Read here the explanations at 29.5.2 to 29.5.4

I posted my personal experience with getting my wife's work permit here:
http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/visa_questions/be_als_it_fachkraft_for_gc_and_his_wife

many thanks, shoppi,

E-visa means Erlaubnis
B-visa means Bewilligung.
just an "internal" saying.

I am not a GC holder. In my passport, it says:
"Der Aufenthalt gilt nur zur Arbeitsaufnahme als xxxx bei der Firma xxx in xxx. Sonstige Erwerbstaetigkeit ist nicht gestattet."
Do you think I can change my status as what you did?

I checked the §29 (5) AufenthG, and found it is very helpful. Since my wife and I just live in Germany for 1 year, I think she has to wait for another year to be able to work, am I right?

is it possible Baden-wuerttemberg has more specific law about this? do you have any link?
(maybe different states has different laws)

I couldn't open your second link, could you give me again?

And, do you know if she's possible to setup a company? is this also belongs to "Erwerbstätigkeit"?

Thanks a lot !!

Sorry for the bad link. It was a wrong paste. Here is a more direct one:
http://www.fluechtlingsinfo-berlin.de/fr/gesetzgebung/BMI_Hinweise_AufenthG_221204.pdf

The paragraph §29(5) is not only for GC, so you can use the same arguments, adapted to your particular situation. Basically, see the PDF above, it means the following:
1) You have the right to work, so has your wife.
2) You have the right to work without Arbeitsmarktcheck, so has your wife.
3) You have the right to found a company, so has your wife.
4) You do not have these rights, your wife will have them after 2 years living in Germany.
5) Your permit is bound to a company or branch, your wife's permit should not be bound to this specific company or branch.
6) Your work permit terminates and you have to leave Germany, so happens with your wife work permit.

So in your situation, your wife may get the work permit, maybe conditioned by an Arbeitsmarktcheck. This part with Arbeitsmarktcheck is mostly bad. If your wife has a calification desired in Germany and she can easily pass through Arbeitsmarktcheck, maybe it is worth to try to get a job and an independent work permit (she applies without using §29(5) and she gets rid of the bad condition 6) above). It depends if under the new law, you have to pass through Arbeitsmarktcheck when you change your job or not. After 2 years she will get the right to work without Arbeitsmarktcheck. To found a company, is more difficult. Maybe other regulations related to your/her nationality may help. After 4 years living or 3 years working in Germany, you may both get EG and with that also the right to found a company.

I think that you have an work permit issued before 01.01.2005. The first step you should do is to go to ABH, ask which is your classification according to the new law and maybe change your visa first. According to this new classification you will know better what your wife can do.

Hallo Shoppi,

Thank you very much for your kind help.

With my limited German, it's really difficult to fully understand the instructions for ABH.

From what I read and what you said, here's the confusions, please correct me if I'm wrong:
1) if my wife wants to work now, she has to go through Arbeitsmarktcheck. OR she can wait one more year (to complete 2 year living in Germany) to be able to work without Arbeitsmarktcheck.
2) After 4 years living or 3 years working in Germany to get EG? you mean permanent residence?
I remember it's 5 years working to get permanent, 8 years to get passport....??
3) Yes, I have an work permit issued before 01.01.2005. I made an appointment with ABH early Oct. You said " to ask which is your classification according to the new law and maybe change your visa first.", what do you mean by this?.....to see if I can release the bound to my company? or other?
4) I don't really know if by that time, I had to pass Arbeitsmarktcheck, where can I find this or just ask ABH?

many thanks !!

A 1) yes, with the remark that AMC will be needed only if you need it. This depends on your classification according to the new law (see also the answer to 3)

A 2) There are 2 types of permits, both go hand in hand: work permits and residence permits. EG is an unlimited *work* permit (a.k.a. BE) + the right to found a company. Permanent residence is NE and this you get after 5 years under the condition that you already will have at that time the right to a BE or EG.

A 3) I would not expect to remove the company, but maybe you will be classified for example as High Qualified according to your specific knowledge or salary. I can only speculate, since I do not have any details regarding this aspects. This would bring for example the right to apply for NE immediately.

A 4) This depends on what your occupation here is and to which category you classify by the new law (see also the answer to 3)

Thanks Shoppi,

With your answer to my question 4),
"which category you classify by the new law".
FYI, with my current salary, I won't classified as High Qualified. I am a System Engineer, but not a GC holder.

Do you think in my case, I need to pass Arbeitsmarktcheck? and my wife is a Marketing Executive, does she needs too?

and if my wife completeed 2 year living in Germany to be able to work without Arbeitsmarktcheck, be more specific, so by that time, she's free to work without "work permit" to any employer, right?

Thanks !

Hi Shoppi,

I'll be moving to germany very soon, presently in brussels. I am still waiting for my workpermit. so far there is no answer from the labor office. (at the same time no complaint yet, it has been 1 month 1 week since i submitted my papers) so i believe things are going fine.

I recently contacted the "Auswaertiges Amt, Deutschland" by email, to know about the spouse work rights for my husband, as he will join me as accompanying spouse.

Here is their answer,

"Thank you for contacting the Help Desk of the German Foreign Office. I regret having to tell that your husband, unfortunately, will be restricted to his status as accompanying spouse. He will only receive a work permit, if the job can be held by a foreigner due to the ban on recruitment of 1973, which is still valid, and current high unemployment levels. Therefore, his work permit will be employer based and not unlimited."

I m having two masters + 5 yrs experience as a Bioinformatician. I will be moving to a company (similar scientific position) with the gross income of 38,000 per year. I do not have any idea on the type of permit that i will receive with this qualification, exp and sal.

However, i should wait until i know my permit type, before asking for my husband under the law 29(5). Isn't it?

I will let u know more, once we are there.

Jes.

@wjainagn:
Regarding the question if you would need AMC or not, it's hard to me to judge that. I can give you the related law links and you may make an image yourself. Here are the situations when somebody does not need AMC when he gets a job in Germany:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/beschv.html
Read everything at "1. Abschnitt - Zustimmungsfreie Beschäftigungen"
All the other qualifications need AMC, with the exceptions listed here:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/beschv.html#46
By the way, here you find the GCs at point (2)
The paragraph related to High Qualified and getting NE for that is here:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19

In any situation, after 2 years your wife can get from ABH the work permit that allows her to take a job without AMC. I'm not sure if you mean this, but she cannot work without a work permit. The discussion here is under which conditions she can get one from ABH and not if she can work without one.

@rubaj and @wjainagn:
§29(5) exists and once you clarify your situation relative to the new law, you can fight for your spouse's rights using this paragraph. Be prepared that this can take a lot of time, stress and maybe money as sometimes ABH is not easy to convince to give you your rights. In this situations, maybe it's better to talk to a lawyer.

Thank a lot, Shoppi !!

You made things so clear to me, now I'm confident to deal with ABH for my rights.

Could you please tell me what is the full German word for (unlimited work permit) BE and EG?

And, just read sth from this forum, it says sth that if spouse complete 2 years in Germany, she may work. But she has to find a job wher no german/EU citizen may take. Is this true?
so if my wife wants to be totally free to work, she will have to wait after get BE, right?

thanks again !!

wjainagn

BE = Beschäftigung erlaubt
EG = Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet

These are really unlimited if they are stated like this in your visa, without supplementary specifications / restrictions. For example, after 2 years, your wife may get something like "Beschäftigung erlaubt gem. §29(5)AufenthG". This means she can work anything under the condition that you are still allowed to stay in Germany.

And no, after 2 years there is no condition that a german cannot occupy your wife's job. That is AMC.

Hallo,

I am living in Baden-Württ. and I am living here on Aufenthalterlaubnis since July 2002 and I got married in 2003 and my wife joined me here in Sept 2003. Now according to the discussions carried out here, I asked ABH to give my wife a workpermit as she has completed her two years in Germany. But they are giving her workpermit with AMC only as they told me that I have a Green card so she can not get a open work permit.

Now how should I proceed in this case, as I have already paid RenteVersh. for 38 months and living in Germany since 5 years(student sept.2000-Jun 2002).
Shall I take first BE and ask ABH to change the workpermit of my wife or go directly without changing my visa?
thanks in advance for your help.

Regards
Peacy

Your wife really can get BE even without you having it. Make a written request, explain on which law base you want to get this and make them understand that you know your rights and that if they refuse to apply the law, you will get a lawyer.

If you get yourself BE first, then it may be easier for them to accept your application for your wife but again, it is not necessary.

See also the experience of binoy_vr here:
http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/visa_questions/be_als_it_fachkraft_for_gc_and_his_wife/(offset)/10
He was refused first, but when he explained them the second time that he knows his rights, everything was Ok.

@Shoppi

I do not have any Rechtshutzversicherung so I donot know if I will get a laywer then how much it cost to me. Yes I made a mistake that I went to a Beamterin but it happens.
Can you please send me a copy of your Letter to me, as I can use your format to make my application. As today she kept the passport and told us that she will enquire about the rule and then inform us by letter.

mail me at peacy_2006 at yahoo dot com
Thanks.
Peacy

If they already said that they will answer you in writing, then you will have their written opinion without doing more. There you will see how good they understood your situation. But this may take some time...

Maybe until you wait their answer, it is a good idea to try to get BE yourself.

If you want to make another written request, I think you will want to cover the following aspects:
- make it as coming from your wife
- which is your legal situation in Germany
- which is her legal situation in Germany
- what does your wife request
- based on which law

Hi all,

I wanted to thank the Trust7 community for obtaining EG status for my wife. Earlier she was denied this because I am a GC holder but after making a discussion with the ABH, finally we are able to obtain it.

Regards
Peacy

Does anyone of us have the English version of the Immigration Laws that is helpful for the GC holders.