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Visa Questions

Triple security for GCs ?

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Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 12:38 PM
Hi people.
We have lot discussed here about the possibility for a GC to extend stay in Germany. Most obvious legal grounds is the § 46 Abs 2 BeschV, but also § 9 BeschVerfV is also applicable for many GCs. The only remaining question was, is do GCs fulfill the requirements specified in § 9 Abs (1) 1. I think they should because the "Begründung" for the § 9 BeschVerfV says:

In den Nummern 2 und 3 werden - entsprechend dem geltenden Recht - von der arbeitsmarktlichen Verfestigung solche Beschäftigungsaufenthalte ausgenommen, die im geltenden Recht mit einer Aufenthaltsbewilligung (bei nur vorübergehenden Beschäftigungen z. B. von Saisonkräften, Gastarbeitnehmern, Werkvertragsarbeitnehmern, Schaustellergehilfen, Haushaltshilfen etc.) erlaubt wurden. Damit wird auch klargestellt, dass die aus allgemeinen arbeitsmarktlichen Gründen vorgesehene Befristung des § 13 Abs. 2 einer Verfestigung nicht entgegen steht.

Thus, GC was limited residence and work permit, but as such it is calculated within 3 years limit. Anyway, initial work permits were and are always limited, so the § 9 Abs (1) 1. would be then senseless.

What do you think ?
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 2:03 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
There is nothing to think about but something to do :-)
GC's workpermit isn't limited from 1.01.05.gem. §46.2 BeschV (there is no time limit but limit "durch IT-Tätigkeit")
I know many former GC, who already possess such permission (with “Beschäftigung erlaubt” without time and branch limitation according to the 9 BeshcVerfV.).
It’s quite easy. The main critic from ABH is directed to the point you can’t activate the procedure without having some cause (Arbeitsplatzwechsel, Aufenthaltsende etc). But if you want to find a Nebenjob, it is a cause too. I’m sorry, it’s easier for me to write about such things in German.

Man hat kein Anspruch auf “Besch. Erlaubt” gem. § 9 BeschVerfV, da 1) das ist internes Recht, das regelt das Verfahren; 2) die Entscheidung steht im Ermessen von ABH.
Ligen jedoch alle Voraussetzungen vor (3 Jahre Tätigkeit und Aufenthaltserlaubnis), sind die Antwort von AA und die Entscheidung von ABH indiziert, die Ermessenspielraum ist auf Null zu reduzieren, die Antwort soll „Ja“ sein. Somit hat man einen Anspruch auf ermessensfehlerfreie Entscheidung.



„Betreff. Veränderung der ausländerrechtlichen Auflage


Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren,


seit dem ______2000 wohne ich, ___________, in der Bundesrepublik Deutschland rechtsmäßig mit der gültigen Aufenthaltserlaubnis, die gemäß der Verordnung über Aufenthaltserlaubnisse für hoch qualifizierte ausländische Fachkräfte der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie (IT-AV) vom _______2001 bei der ABH _______ erteilt wurde. Die zurzeit vorhandene ausländerrechtliche Auflage läutet: „Selbständige Erwerbstätigkeit oder vergleichbare unselbständige Erwerbstätigkeit nicht gestattet. Erwerbstätigkeit nur als IT-Spezialist gemäß der IT-AV bei der Fa. XXXX gestattet. Die Aufenthaltsgenehmigung erlischt mit Beendigung der Beschäftigung bei oben genannten Arbeitgebern.“

Anlage 1.

Seit dem 01.06.2001 war ich bei der Firma ________ beschäftigt. Meine nach § 6.2. IT-ArGV erteilte Arbeitserlaubnis ist an die Fa. XXXX gebunden und ist bis ________ gültig. Seit dem 01.01.05 gilt diese befristete Arbeitserlaubnis als unbefristete Zustimmung zum Aufenthaltstitel zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung gem. §46.2 BeschV fort.

Anlage 2.

Eine solche Auflage steht der Ausübung einer Nebentätigkeit entgegen.
Ich habe mehr als 3 Jahre rechtmäßig eine versicherungspflichtige Beschäftigung im Bundesgebiet ausgeübt
(Anlage 3) und eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis besitze, somit steht mir einen Anspruch auf Ermessensfehlerfreie Entscheidung bezüglich Veränderung der Auflage zu. Die Zustimmung zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung ist gem. § 9 Abs. 1 Nr.1, Abs. 4 BeschVerfV durch die Bundesagentur für Arbeit ohne Prüfung nach §39 Abs. 2 Satz 1 Nr. 1 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes und ohne Beschränkungen nach § 13 BeschVerfV (d. h. ohne Beschränkungen hinsichtlich der beruflichen Tätigkeit, des Arbeitgebers, des Bezirkes der Agentur für Arbeit, der Lage und Verteilung der Arbeitszeit sowie ohne zeitlichen Beschränkungen) zu erteilen.
Die Beschränkungen bei der Erteilung der Zustimmung durch die Bundesagentur für Arbeit bzw. deren Nichtvorhandensein sind gem. § 18 Abs. 2 S. 2 AufenthG in den Aufenthaltstitel zu übernehmen. Da ich mich eine Nebenjob aussuchen möchte, beantrage ich Aufhebung der alten ausländerrechtlichen Auflage und Erteilung einer neuen, die eine unselbständige Erwerbstätigkeit jeder Art ohne zeitliche Beschränkungen ermöglicht.
Sollten Sie zu Bearbeitung des Antrages weitere Unterlagen benötigen, stelle ich sie Ihnen gerne zur
Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
_______

Anlagen:
1. Kopie des Reisepasses
2. Kopie der Arbeitserlaubnis
3. Nachweis über Sozialversicherungszahlungen.
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Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 2:12 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
ich danke auf jeden fall für den Text, war bisschen faul mich darum zu kümmern, und ausserdem, Du hast recht, einer weiteren Beschäftigung steht jetzt nicht im Wege.

Frage > Muss ich meine alte Arbeitserl. in die unbefristete umwandeln, oder gilt die automatisch ?
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Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 2:30 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
@Nemo:

Are we GCs allowed to undertake another Nebenjob?
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Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 2:35 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
@ fred
off course not. you do not have AE for another job

but if you get BE than it is AE for all jobs you wish.

@nagual
BE IS AE, and you do not need another AE beside BE becuase it covers everything (but not Selbstständigkeit)
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Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 3:24 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
Thanks for the text. It is really great. I have sent already very similar letter to ABH, however, I did specify as the reason that the "current visa does not reflect the new and changed circumstances, in reference to §46.2 and §9". But let's wait and see...
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Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 3:39 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
@Nemo
Thanks for the text. It looks quite useful. I will probably use it, when I finish my 3 years in 6 months time. emoticon

Regards,

Lacrima
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Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 5:23 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
Hello guys,
I am sorry but I did not understand the discussion about the 3 years etc in this thread. I am a GC since 4 years in Germany, is there anything new which I can take advantage of? I have limited contract for 5 years (it will finish after 1 year), and I am looking forward to apply for NE after my company extend my contract for a 6th year... Please inform me of any new things regarding the 3 years and so on which could help me...
Best Regards for all
Zash
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 5:56 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
You can get unlimited WORK permit, not connected to any company or even IT, and extension of residence permit beyond 5 years.

So if you change your job, if your lose your job, if you are unemployed, or if you want to work as, let's say photo-model :-) (this is just to break this Putzfrau stereotype) - you can do it.

But you have to get the contract as photo model in some agency for photo models, you cannot work as freelancer photo-model.

On the beginning of this thread you have the letter that you can send to ABH to require this change.
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 6:06 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
Cedomir thanks for the answer.
So I am entitled for an unlimited work permit as i understand.. If I apply for it in the ABH, do they directly give it to me or maybe they refuse?
Probably I need this unlimited permit to get my contract extended at my current company.
I was always since 2001 in one company,does this make any difference? Also what happens if you have this unlimited work permit and lose your job?? How long can you stay in Germany to look for a new job??
Thanks a lot...
Zash
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 6:20 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
@Zash

You are not entitled to unlimited work permit after 36/48 Months, but you can (kann) get it. If you know german, check the laws (BeschverfV). As we have seen on this forum, ABH&AA can do mostly what they want, so you have to apply and see what happens.

If they refuse without reason, there are further mechanisms provided by the rule of the law to change their decision.

But if you want to continue to work in your present company, it is much easier - your current work permit is ALREADY valid AS IT IS unlimited for your current company (no discussion!), so you have just go to Ausländeramt and ask for visa extension for current company. If you however go now they will probably send you home and say "come 2 weeks before expiration".
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 6:29 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
@cedomir,
Thanks again.
The problem I am facing is the following:
I have my contract from 01.05.2001 until 01.5.2006 (exactly 5 years). Also my GC (Arbeitserlaubnis) is for the same time valid and also my Aufenthaltserlaubnis... Now if I ask my company to extend my contract for 1 more years (until 01.05.2007), to get my NE, then my company will ask me for a valid Arbeitserlaubnis (which is now only valid for the end of the current contrct).. So I have the egg-chicken problem...
How can I solve this to get the NE?? Any idea is thanked..
Zash
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 6:55 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
Hi Cedomir,

What do you mean by the following statement

"your current work permit is ALREADY valid AS IT IS unlimited for your current company (no discussion!)".

I have a workpermit(Arbeitserlaubnis) with my company ,but it also states a period valid From- To(My GC Limit ).

After Getting NE ,do I have to extend this Arbeitserlaubnis

Thanks....
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 7:04 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
pazzuzu
what he menas is what he says and that says law also. look BeschV §46.2
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 7:10 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
I mean exactly what I have said - your current work permit although on paper limited is by the law considered as unlimited. Also, there are no newly issued work permits anymore after 1.1.2005.

Look here:


§ 46 Übergangsregelungen

(2) Die einer IT-Fachkraft nach § 6 Abs. 2 der Verordnung über die Arbeitsgenehmigung für hoch qualifizierte Fachkräfte der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie erteilte befristete Arbeitserlaubnis gilt als unbefristete Zustimmung zum Aufenthaltstitel zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung fort.

Translation (or at least try):

Transitional arrangements:

The given limited work permit for the highly qualified specialists of the information and communication technologies according to
§ 6 Abs. 2 of the decree about the work permits for highly qualified specialists of the information and communication technologies is valid as the unlimited approval for the residence permit for the further excercise of the employement.

Thus, shortly before expiration of your visa you go to Ausländerbehörde and they must give you visa extension.

Furthermore, you should know that there is no work permit anymore, as a separate document. The visas issued after 1.1.2005 are simultaneously residence permits and work permits.
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 7:11 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
2) Die einer IT-Fachkraft nach § 6 Abs. 2 der Verordnung über die Arbeitsgenehmigung für hoch qualifizierte Fachkräfte der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie erteilte befristete Arbeitserlaubnis gilt als unbefristete Zustimmung zum Aufenthaltstitel zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung fort.


Okay ,I see that ...
Just want to conform with you guys ,so we don't need this arbeitserlaubnis after NE anymore.Can we thow away this paper then emoticon
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 7:16 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
guys, any comment on my situation please??
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/15/05 8:49 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
I would not throw the Work permit away. It is actually very important. It is also too early to celebrate, since lot of people have had problems and are having problems when changing job, ABHs not reading the 46.2 properly.
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/16/05 1:10 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
Ok it seems there is no comment on my situation.. schade!!
Mr Detlef, do you think that the trust7 lawyers have a solution for this?
Zash
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Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/16/05 2:01 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
zash where were you last time.
on the forum you could collect everything you need.
You can make Antrag auf Aufhebung der Auflage at ABH after 3-4 y in D and you should get it without problems. in the mean time you will probably need "Arbeitgeberbestätigung zur Vorlage bei der Ausländerbehörde" filled by your Arbeitgeber.

ABH should give you BE which is unbefr. ArE and 1-5 years AE Verlängerung also.
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/16/05 2:06 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
zash gib mir dein e-mail
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Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/16/05 2:09 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
zash wrote:
"Now if I ask my company to extend my contract for 1 more years (until 01.05.2007), to get my NE, then my company will ask me for a valid Arbeitserlaubnis (which is now only valid for the end of the current contrct).."

Zash, there is nothing complicated with your situation. Just sign the new contract with your current employer.(They can put a clause like "this contract's validity depends on the residence/work permit")
Actually your first work-permit became automatically unlimited for your current employer with the new law. Go to ABH with the contract, get your one year extension. Even apply for NE after crossing the 5 year limit. No need to worry, as long as you have a job offer..

Regards,

Lacrima
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/16/05 2:21 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
Thank you guys for the answers....
@DvD:
You can write me to:
z_zash@yahoo.com
Best regards,
Zash
0 (0 Votes)

Re: Triple security for GCs ?
Answer
3/16/05 2:30 PM as a reply to Cedomir Dijanovic.
@DvD
I did not get exactly what you were saying about the Auflagen and the Arbeitgeberbestätigung. Can you please email me and tell me what should I do?

@Lacrima
If my company agrees to give me the 1 year extension of the contract (now they are asking for a valid AE), but in case they really gave me the extension, do u think that i really need to go to ABH and extend visa, then when 5 years are crossed, apply for NE, or i can simply go to ABH 3 months before my visa expires and directly apply for NE? Which is better?
Thanks
0 (0 Votes)

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