Dear All!

I went to the Visa office today to try to change from BE to Selbstandige.

The visa officer says that I need to invest 500,000 euro or employ 5 germans in order to do consutling. He showed me § 21 AufenthG / Selbständige Tätigkeit and looks like this is exactly according to the book.

He asked me to comeback with a business plan, and info on finances etc.

I do have a firm consulting offer for six months from one agency. However, I do not have this 500,000 euros.

Can anyone suggest if there is really a way ahead?? How did other collegues manage to get past this rule???

Also, if someone can share their "business plan", without personal details, this would be great.

I read section

Looking at the law, they are right, I think I never had to worry about that because I had an NE when I opened my business.

And for the business plan, I can recommand you to do one online for free (http://www.unternehmenswelt.de) or you just buy a software to do it (http://planmagic.com/geschaeftsplan.html) but all in all, it has to be done in German.

I myself used the online one to do one for my wife a couple of weeks ago, you just have to understand the questions and answer accordingly, but it's quite good.

D.

Hi Noboby!

Thanks for your response.
Unfortunately, I do not have NE.

It looks like some people with BE were able to get Selbständige approval earlier. I just want to figure out how???

It would be great if someone can comment on how to get this done.

Any hints are quite useful for me.


I am trying to make this business plan and go to Auslander office so that they can send my plan to IHK / chamber of commerce for review. I do not have this 500,000 euro to show up.

I hope some one can give me some hints on how to position the plan / write the cover letter.


It is quite difficult to get an answer these days from trust7 contributers as most are past NE etc.

However, I will keep trying :-)

Hi,

I know there's a figure called "Einzelunternehmer" which allows you to be independant but not quite "Selbständige", may be that's all you need to carry out the consulting to only one firma. Did you tell ABH that you have this consulting offer?

take care

I won't advise you to go "Einzelunternehmer" because you will have a lot more financial restrictions than a normal "Selbständig" and you will have to pay more taxes.

Steuerliche Behandlung eines Einzelunternehmers
* Betriebsvermögen
* Gewerbesteuer
* Einkommensteuer
* Umsatzsteuer
* Erbschaftsteuer [can happen]

Vorteile des Einzelunternehmens
* Volle Entscheidungsfreiheit und Verfügungsgewalt über das Betriebsvermögen und die Geschäftspolitik.
* kein Mindestkapital
* Gründung erfolgt formlos, (unkompliziert und billig)
* Gewinn steht allein dem Geschäftsinhaber zu

Nachteile des Einzelunternehmens
* Das Geschäftsrisiko liegt allein beim Inhaber des Einzelunternehmens und er haftet mit seinem gesamten Privatvermögen
* Kapitalbeschaffung schwieriger als etwa bei der AG
* Durch meist geringeres Kapital schlechtere Verhandlungsposition gegenüber Banken und Gläubigern

D.

Thanks for the replies ariana and nobody.

what i have is a valid offer with a good rate for the next six months. i also think that i can get similar contracts afterwards. in any casye, if i do not get a consulting contract i can always go as an employee since i have BE status. (i am assuming i keep the BE status and also get consulting allowed)

at this time, i do not intend to employ anyone else, just work for myself and pay taxes etc. if a firm is required to be setup could also do that, but ideally would just want to work asa simple consultant.

exactly what wording should i use so that the authorities understand that for this individual consulting, this 500k is not required.

i saw in some earlier post a mention of a letter someone wrote in a situation similar to me but i could locate this letter. if available could someone please share this letter and or sample business plan or give any additional hints.

Thanks a bunch!
j

One simple option would be to go through an umbrella company. Ask Detlef at trust7 for this. I think he offers this service as well.

This way you avoid the ABh altogether as there is no need to prepare business plans etc., just to make these guys happy!

Hi,

thanks xenon for mentioning me :-)

Yes, you are right, we are offering umbrella services and anybody who is interested should contact me personally.

We offer this for freelancers as well as for employees with BE (Beschäftigung erlaubt). This is a very sensitive issue, so I can not give blanket advise.

The 500.000,- € information is absolutely 'bull shit'. The officer who told this has no idea of his job or he was just to lazy to do his work and tried to get rid of jamnazar.

Viele Grüße aus Berlin
Detlef

Hello Xenon & Detlef!

I have exchanged emails with Detlef but was not clear that an umbrella company could be used in my situation.

To rephrase my situation,
Firm A wants to hire a cunsultant to do a job. Firm A pays agency X, lets say, 60 euros per hour. agency X is willing to pay 55 euros per hour to me, if I can so Selbständige / consulting and provide a VAT number to that effect. Since I only have BE, I am trying to get this Selbständige state for which the 500,000 Euro requirement is rasied.

Is it possible in my situation with current BE, to be able to work on this contract such that agency X now pays the umbrella company which is then paying to me. (agency x would only pay in germany). If this is possible, this is great for me and simple. I just would need to know how much it would cost me to work via the umbrella setup.

I know that the rules are quite complicated in germany unlike UK where consulting or umbrella company is an easy way to work as a consultant. Hopefully germany authorities would learn to appreciate the value that consultants bring to a business.

In any case,
when I went to the Auslander office, he reference his little book and showed me section 21 which I translate for you from google below.

Considering the experience of trust7 team and contributers, I think there must be people who would have addressed this situation, and any hints for my case would be valuable.

origional german description,
http://www.juraforum.de/gesetze/AufenthG/21/

and the translation,
"Section 21 AufenthG
Self-employed activity
Chapter 2 (entry and residence in the federal territory)
Section 4 (residence for the purpose of gainful employment)



(1) A foreigner can be granted a residence permit to exercise self-employment may be given if

1st an overall economic interest or to a particular regional need,

2nd the activity a positive impact on the economy and can expect

3rd financing the implementation through equity or a loan commitment is secured.


The conditions of the sentence 1 No. 1 and 2 are usually given when at least 500,000 euros and five jobs. In addition, aimed to assess the conditions laid down in Clause 1, particularly after the sustainability of the underlying business idea, the entrepreneurial experience of the foreigner, the amount of capital expenditure, the impact on employment and training situation and the contribution to innovation and research. The review should cover for the location of the proposed activity competent authorities, the relevant trade authorities, public legal profession and the representatives of the professional accreditation authorities to participate.

(2) A residence permit to exercise self-employment may also be issued if international relief on the basis of reciprocity.

(3) foreigners who are older than 45 years, the residence permit be issued only if they have an adequate pension.

(4) The residence permit is issued to a maximum of three years. After three years, notwithstanding Section 9, paragraph 2 a settlement permit be issued if the foreigner is the planned activity has successfully implemented and the livelihood of the foreigner and his family with him in community living, which he maintenance has to make sufficient income secured.

(5) A foreigner can be granted a residence permit to carry on an independent activity, notwithstanding paragraph 1. A required permission to engage in the liberal professions should have been granted or pledged its issue. Paragraph 1 sentence 4 shall apply. Paragraph 4 is not.

(6) A foreigner, a residence permit for a different purpose is issued or has been granted, may be maintaining this residence the purpose of exercising self-activity be allowed if under other provisions necessary permits have been issued or promised its issue."

Hi again,

you should call me at my office tomorrow morning, between 10.30 and 11.30 am.

Best regards
Detlef

@jamnazar

If nothing works out for you give me a call on 0162/2834474.