Hi folks,

Can anybody tell me about the salary expectation for a job in a microelectronics company with 2.5 year work exp ?

I have a masters degree in electronics engineering. I design analog chips ( integrated circuits ) in a German company.

With Regards,

Buetino

I would say 50K Euros annual gross.. may vary a little bit depending on the state in which you are living and the size of the company at which you are working.. just a rough figure..

Regards,

Lacrima

Hi Lacrima,

Thanks for your response. Recently I have discovered that I am getting underpaid. If I move to another company, I can demand the industry-average salary for my qualification. But due to financial downturn, nowadays its difficult to switch to a different company. I am thinking about salary negotiation with my employer. How much should I demand from him ? Industry average which means 20% increment of the current salary? Or , simply 5 or 10% increment ?

With Regards,

Buetino

>>I am thinking about salary negotiation with my employer. How much should I demand from him ? Industry average which means 20% increment of the current salary? Or , simply 5 or 10% increment ?

If you switch jobs its normal to ask a 10% increment in salary, but depending on your negotiating skills it can be even more. But if you are negotiating with your present employer dont think he will agree for such a huge leap. If you indespensible for the company then your Boss will agree with your for a increment.

Hi Raj,

Thanks for your advice. You have mentioned that
############
But if you are negotiating with your present employer dont think he will agree for such a huge leap.
########

Well, why will he not agree to my demand ? If he exploits me , I should protest, shouldn't I ?
I am demanding a fair deal, not over-payment.
Am I wrong ? Is it a norm here for the German employers to exploit the non-German engineers ?

My starting salary was 3150 euro/month. After about two years , it has increased to 3465 euro/month. Recently a German engineer has joined our company.

He is just a fresh graduate and did his thesis work in our company. But his starting salary is 3600 euro/month. Plus he gets bonus for vacation.
Isn't it a big discrimination ? So, I am thinking about how much a German engineer gets with 2.5 years experience. Any idea, please ?

Hi,

I am a digital chip design engineer, design integrated circuits, which is very close to your area.

An engineer in my area with an experience of 2,5 years has max. 45000 Euro per annum.

buetino asks raj:
Well, why will he not agree to my demand ? If he exploits me , I should protest, shouldn't I ?

Principally even if you are right, you shouldn't be too open to your employer. Especially in this world crisis it is very sensitive to talk that way.

I am demanding a fair deal, not over-payment. Am I wrong ? Is it a norm here for the German employers to exploit the non-German engineers ?

Germans are pretty fair. My manager is German and he is fair to me. There is no such double norm in these qualifications.

Also don't forget the semiconductors industry is experiencing its worst economical challenge due to crisis. In this crisis you should say amen to your current job.

I am telling this to you due to my 12 years of experience in microelectronics.

Klenze17.

>>Well, why will he not agree to my demand ? If he exploits me , I should protest, shouldn't I ?
I am demanding a fair deal, not over-payment.
Am I wrong ? Is it a norm here for the German employers to exploit the non-German engineers ?

Before crying discrimination and exploitation, you should have done your home work before you joined the company and got the salary you think is just for you. who forced you to accept it in the first place? No two persons in the same position get the same salary in private companies. There is always a range for the position and depending on your negotation skills you can be placed in the highter or lower end. Seems you were placed in the lower range.

Hi,

you did a (dummy) mistake negotiating your salary at the beginning. If the other guy is earning more than you, that is not discrimination, he was simply better informed than you. Period.

Don't feel bad about it, it is not easy to know that. The only way to get a good idea is to do a lot of research in internet. For example, as you probably noted, you should had posted this question here when you started the contact with the company. Also your location is an important factor for the salary level.

Now, as some people stated above, trying to get an (high) increase of your salary depends on the current economical state of your company, as well as how important you are for the company.

Based on my own experience, I recommend you to try it when you are involved in a project where they will get problems if you leave the company.

Not easy in the current trends of the market.

Good look,

Alex

raj said:
Before crying discrimination and exploitation, you should have done your home work before you joined the company and got the salary you think is just for you.

alex said:
you did a (dummy) mistake negotiating your salary at the beginning.

All of us think in the same way as you above. We should not regret the past. Let's have a look tomorrow.

At the moment there is crisis and in the crisis times it is extremely difficult, practically impossible to ask for salary increase. It might have a negative impact on the current job.

Extraordinary times require extraordinary conditions. Crisis is extraordinary time and its condition is to live with that (what I said: amen to the current status).

The only way of surviving such kind of stuff in such kind of crisis is to have a very strong background and qualifications. This is also technically possible even for an engineer of 2,5 years of experience.

My personal advice/recommendation is to look at the future. My recept is to be patient, keeping the performance in this crisis with no compensation. As soon as the crisis goes away, you can ask for your performance compensation.

You might have done a miskake by starting with a bad salary. Everybody has done mistakes in his life. You can compensate your contras with other pro's.

This crisis is the worst one I have ever seen. You must be very careful and not very risky to open your mind. Think not twice, but three times even when talking to your manager. This is valid for everyone here, even for me.

Klenze17.

Hi Raj,

Your following comment is really an eye-opener to me.

########################

No two persons in the same position get the same salary in private companies. There is always a range for the position and depending on your negotation skills you can be placed in the highter or lower end. Seems you were placed in the lower range.

######################

When I go to a German supermarket , I see the goods at fixed price rates. So, no need for bargain. Naturally, I might have subconsciously thought that the job market also has this fixed price trend.

Hi Klenze17,

Thanks a lot for your advice. Regarding your following comment
##########################
I am a digital chip design engineer, design integrated circuits, which is very close to your area.

An engineer in my area with an experience of 2,5 years has max. 45000 Euro per annum.
##########################

Recently a non-German PhD guy joined our company as an RF IC design engineer. His starting salary is 3800 euro/month , that is , 456000 euro per year.

I thought that the salary for a fresh PhD guy should be higher.

Another issue is about salary level to get NE.
This level is 85.500 €. If the engineer's salary rises so slowly ( starting is 40K , with 2.5 year exp is 45K ) , when will he reach this 85K level ? How to reach that level quickly ?

By the way, is there any German discussion forum or yahoo group for the IC designers ? I need to share my frustration as well as hopes with other IC designers in Germany.

With Regards,

Buetino

@ buetino:

How come you know the salaries of your colleagues? Is it allowed to tell your salary to some of your colleagues? It is not allowed in most of the companies....

Hi Buetino,
This is very common in small German companies where you feel you are discriminated given the dependencies one has got as Auslaender owing to Visa restricted to employer/ finding new job is not as easy and so on..

From my past experience, you are a little bit better at 3150/month , I started at 2850 and my boss/manager/CEO said that its the normal for a fresh graduate , though I know my friends starting at 40k per yr and more..
As I was doing my praktikum/thesis for an year and I was abt to leave , they offered me the job and later on worked for 2 yrs with no increments/bonus.
My visa was dependent on the company and getting new visa to new company with arbeitsamt check and bureaucracy, I thought to stay back and my boss knows it very well.
Day to day I was becoming critical to the company and I started playing my cards and from time to time and hinted to leave and eventually left to a bigger firm.
It was not the money though I gained but the experience of learning everything in a German company.

For NE, its not necessarily 85.5k(now changed to 64.3k) but with 5yrs of working/tax paying you can get it easily with any salary.

For sure, there is exploitation, you may not rule that out but just wait for your time and play the game. Search for jobs outside, see that your visa is independent and once u make sure u r ready, feel free to take off.
You might ask your manager to review your salary structure,rather than comparing with colleagues.

If you get good deal , all good.
cheers

@buetino:
I am not elec engg though

I wrote:
I am a digital chip design engineer, design integrated circuits, which is very close to your area.

An engineer in my area with an experience of 2,5 years has max. 45000 Euro per annum.

Buetino wrote:
Recently a non-German PhD guy joined our company as an RF IC design engineer. His starting salary is 3800 euro/month , that is , 456000 euro per year.

I thought that the salary for a fresh PhD guy should be higher.

I think it should be 45.600 year, not 456.000.

Even in our area (electronics/microelectronics) the metrics might be quite different. An academic title does not always have a good salary. Finally it is the experience/personality what is playing a role.

According to my 12 years of experience in private sector I can say that the start salary is also highly dependent from the your reputation in the interview, ie. how you have represented yourself, how you could "sell yourself". This is finally more important than an academic title.

Buetino wrote:
Another issue is about salary level to get NE. This level is 85.500 €. If the engineer's salary rises so slowly ( starting is 40K , with 2.5 year exp is 45K ) , when will he reach this 85K level ? How to reach that level quickly ?

Firstly this 85.500 Euro does not exist any more. According to the new law which is effective starting 01.01.2009, it has been 63.600 Euro. I have addressed this law change several times on this site.

Salary rise is slowly if he/she shows ordinary performance and his/her salary is increased according to the negotations of the company with work unions.

To the salaries in this level, you must show extraordinary performance at work. In this case Germans will grant you with higher grade, resulting a salary increment out of seasonal/yearly regular increments. This is true for all companies in the world. Everone in the world people are granted if they show extraordinary performance.

Buetino wrote:
By the way, is there any German discussion forum or yahoo group for the IC designers ? I need to share my frustration as well as hopes with other IC designers in Germany.

There is not. Salary stuff is a very sensitive subject. People do not like to comment on this very much. However there are article in electronics magazines like EE-Times which have statistics on it but I am sure nobody will comment on his/her salary very openly.

Klenze17.

Salary Salary Salary if he remained frustrated and stressed like this in future, he will indeed get shortcircuited soon.then he wont be getting what he is getting now.

Moral of the story is ....dont get affected,jelouse by other success or work .Notice preciesly what they have that u dont have learn from them implement it in ur life and go further.

Its as simple as doing Masterbation :-)

Hi Rajendrak,

You have felt my pain precisely !! Thanks a lot for your insightful advice. I would like to request you to clarify some of your comments.

######################

This is very common in small German companies where you feel you are discriminated given the dependencies one has got as Auslaender owing to Visa restricted to employer/ finding new job is not as easy and so on..


My visa was dependent on the company and getting new visa to new company with arbeitsamt check and bureaucracy, I thought to stay back and my boss knows it very well.

#####################

Only after getting a NE , I will be able to be independent of the employer. Am I right ?
With an NE its much easier to hop from one company to another , no Arbeitsamt check. Isn't it ?

With Regards,

Buetino

@buetino

Prior to getting your NE, you could get a BE (Beschäftigungs Erlaubnis), which itself is an "Employer-Independent" work permit.

Nowadays, one could get this BE permit 2Y after working in Germany. You can then safely hop from one job to another - no need to inform Arbitsamt.

HTH...

Cheers.