Dear trust7 members,

it has been a while since I posted a message, but I am so angry these days about the discussion of immigration to Germany, that I have to share my feelings with some intelligent people.

A famous German poet once wrote: 'Denk ich an Deutschland in der Nacht, bin ich um den Schlaf gebracht!'

This means... when I think of Germany in the night, I can not sleep anymore.

He (Heinrich Heine) wrote this with another intention, because he was In France at this time, away from Germany and a bit homesick, but I have this feelings when I see what some politians say about 'Zuwanderung' Immigration.

For those who can read German:

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article10339695/Willkommen-im-Land-der-Auswanderer.html

Faced with bureaucracy every week in one or another way, watching self-pleased fools in the TV and knowing that everything could be so easy, I wish we could have another Greencard sheme.

Nevertheless, I wish you a nice Sunday
und viele Grüße aus Berlin
Detlef

P.S.: Some links for you in case you have the time and you are interested in German culture:

http://www.sprueche-klopfer.de/2008/07/02/heinrich-heine-denk-ich-an-deutschland-in-der-nacht/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Heine

Hi,
Agree with you. Today, read an article on bbc about Merkel's speech on immigration where she states that multi culture in germany has failed completely.
Now they want all immigrants to speak fluent German. Alright in Germany it is good for immigrants to learn german, but how can they say that multi-culture has failed. If they do so, all international firms will be subjected to language constraints which will in future make the german development go in -ive direction.
God, since Germans are lazy to educate themselves in english, so they want the whole world to learn german which makes them Frog in the well.

Bestimmt, this is not simple Politics oder ?

http://www.smh.com.au/world/multiculturalism-in-germany-has-failed-says-chancellor-20101017-16p7h.html

When people attach their identity very hard to a specific thing i.e religion then this problem arises..

Its better to have no identity or be like water ...just flows freely everywhere.Neither chtistian nor Muslim just be human.

Though a non-european, I will be candid.

It is an incontestible fact that Europe is christian, and was build on christianity. As the good old saying puts it, <i>contra factum non fit argumentum</i> i.e. <i>there is no arguing against the facts</i> — that is still totally valid.

All the scientific and architectural archievements and milestones that changed the world would never have occured WITHOUT a Europe rooted in Christianity. The tall maginificient Churches and their spires, dating to the earliest centuries, that can be seen in almost every German Stadt and/or Dorf strongly attest to this magnificient christian heritage and its creative power.

And the world DID, indeed, benefit from European christian civilization and its creativity. For, from christian Europe, missionaries went forth to all the four corners of the world not only spreading Christianity, but also constructing excellent and well-run mission schools.

Moreover, Europeans bitterly fought many bloody wars to keep away invading islamic hordes and other barbarians. Millions, in the flower of their youth, sacrificed their lives so that Christian western Europe remains free from the shackles of agnostic Nazism and atheistic Communism.

Consequently, any attempt to substitute this christian identity with crude "multi-kulti" identity (vigorously promoted by corrupt EU-parliamentarians) is but an incredibly diabolic plan to destroy the unique indentity of each individual European nation state in particular, and Christian Europe in general. Why? In order to subsitute christian civilization, with a depraved, atheistic, materialic, egoistic, and hedonistic society devoid of any moral restraints and incapable of resisting the totalitarian communist/luciferian one-world government that shall be sprung upon the western world. They who refuse to conform will be carted off by police to concentration camps, in the night, never to be seen again.

Sadly, <b>barring a miracle</b>, multi-culturalism is going to archieve what invading islamic armies and atheistic communism failed to accomplish militarily.

Sounds like conpiracy theory? Well, first of all, the scene is being set up for the clash between Christianity and Islam. What is missing is a manufactured, or even a real, nuclear event by iran-linked "terrorists", to be carried out against some nation.

hi again,

after reading poetry and philosophical comments of my topic, I guess I should explain what my simple mind meant ;-)

One example:

I think it is stupid to say, that we do not need foreign experts because there are so many unemployed people here in Germany. We should educate them better instead of hiring experts from other countries.

What a bullshit!!!

How can I educate a 50 years old truck driver (nothing against truck drivers!) to become an engineer for mobile devices?

You know what I mean. The politician play with the fear of the people, the fear of islamic terrorists for example, and put all in one basket. Refugees, asylum seekers and highly qualified experts.

That's stupid and they say it, especially, but not only, party members of the bavarian CSU, because they want to gain the votes of simple minded people, who have the right to vote in the next election. This is a crime in my eyes, because they act against the interest of their own country, Germany. So they are criminals or they are just stupid!

By the way, one of the good things with Germany, my country, is, that I can write this without the fear of backlash.

Coming back to my point... it is quite simple what makes me angry, has nothing to do with philosophy or very intellectual stuff.

Nevertheless, I do not want to stop the philosopher of our community ;-)

Go ahead and discuss everything on a high level! I will try to follow.

I wish I could write in German, but you have to live with my English :-(

Last but not least... I think 'Multikulti' is very alive and I am happy about it. I love it :-)

Detlef

On the other hand ..

If Christians need to have their identity intact in europe ...
They need to breed more + be Intolerant to Islam,Or atleast follow the rule like they have with their religion in middle east.

You can see the clear result of soft stand/tolerance against Islam in India.

OK, here goes some Philosophy:

The origin or motive for any new creation is the identity of self, either consciously (like all scientists and philosophers, about themselves) or subconsciously (like all living creatures evolving according to their environment). If any of these have to accept "anything is OK" like:

Scientists - why atomic theory, life as it is goes any way well!
Philosopher - why bother with new thoughts, his/her thoughts are OK as well!
Living creatures - how does it matter, whether it is hot or cold, whether I procreate or these creatures next to me do so, I be eaten by my predator or be alive and spend one more day....

Above questions are banished once they see themselves as distinct identities with a purpose to act during life time, long or short.

Take rainbow's colors VIBGYOR as water colors; eath of them are beautiful and original in their own respect. Paint them one beside the other, you still get a adorable pattern, WITHOUT loosing their individual identity. Mix these colours optically, you get a new identity, white, but by LOOSING their individual beauty. Lastly, mix the water colors, you get a shabby tasteless shade. Try this with any spectrum, be it food, sound, language, culture. In any case, mixing will compromise individual beauty and power; mindless mixing will destroy any utility of each of the elements.
Nature thrives in variety!

Kerwiss

Dear caligula,

Nice preachings though ;) This is normal for monotheism followers, good to say "My Way is Highway" and "My Way or Highway". Of course it's all started with crusaders (decapitate) to spread like Plague.

Religion(s) : (if you follow the news)

- Killing Scientiests (Galelio, ...)
- Child Abuse (no count)
- Against homos (all over the world)
- Against condoms (afrika)
- Against non-belivers or different faith (...)
- ...
- and Richest in the world by getting by penny by poorest in the world (all churches and church tax)

You call this success with creativity? Did you know there there were many religions in Europe and just killed them all? do you think peacefully?

You'll well be supported with "caligula for President"

Do you see something if everything in front of you is just one color.

Sorry, did'nt want hurt someones feelings, but personal opinion.

Cheers!

Quoting perfekt: "Do you see something if everything in front of you is just one color."

Nature thrives in variety. It does not let monotony to last. Nature's force creates other possibilities. It is the task of humanity (if achieved, then will be the success of modern civilization against the jungle law) to get along nature by allowing plurality at the same time maintaining some degree of individuality.

Thus the trillion dollar question in the context of humanity is "which is the equilibrium size of these individual social entities, that agree with human intellect and nature's force?"

(Note that although the human intellect is still a subset of nature's force, the former perceives itself to act to counterbalance the latter.)

Kerwiss

Diversity is the subversion of European Christians and their values.

That the of majority europeans, an intelligent race by nature, fail to see this insidious plot is down to conditioning by media. Was it not said that he who controls the media determines public opinion


The handful of politicians who are aware that this enforced "diveristy" is diabolic, will not dare to come out and publicly speak against it. They fear (and rightly so) that such an act would draw down a concerted and relentless media attack upon themselves and an end to their political careers and/or ambitions. So, in return for their careers, they must excercise political correctness. In otherwords, they have been compromised. The public has also been conditioned by relentless bombardment via TV, Radio, and Zeitungen, and also through re-written history.

But the power of true democracy can ensure correct choice of preferences for the society by
1) A well minded leader discusing the advantages and disadvantages of several choices, to shine upon the mind of member citizens on the right choice
2) The "intelligent citizens" (read those who can discern truth unaffected by thrusted opinion from media or other vested interest groups)can unite with such a well-minded leadership to enact their well judged choice.
The two key requirements here are the "well-minded leader" and the "intellegent citizens".
I am not sure if the former can be ensured 100%, but I believe by and large, the citizens of Germany are well informed, balanced and oriented lot as compared to many developing countries (e.g., India, where people can be easily charmed by film actors, and gimmicked by polititians, unless they face a National crisis like war or epidemic), such as being able to arrive at correct decisions.

Citizens should know the adverse situations challenging the society and only then, if they are intelligent, disciplined and honest enough, they will unite to take a democratic decision. If the latter characteristics are missing in a society then neither will they come to identify the adversities, nor will they have the will to face it. Here the media and politicians too should play a honest role to inform the citizens of the correct situation at the national level, on which the citizens may not have a overview, for example, the need for skilled manpower from outside the country. Then the citizens have two choices: (1) either to solve the issue by their own means (in what time frame? A whole lot of young skilled people cannot be manufactured overnight!) or (2) go amicable with external resources, accepting (also being comfortable with) the latter, trying in a cordial manner (not like "MUSS Deutsch lernen" etc; otherwise, where is the guarantee for "Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar"?).

Dear caligula,

>> That the of majority europeans, an intelligent "race" by nature <<

I'm off, sorry. You win and good luck! ;)

Cheers!

Some nice quotes :
"Patriotism and Religion(s) are those last refuge of the scoundrel" ~Samuel Johnson

"Science flies you to the moon, Religions flies you into the buildings" ~Victor Stenger

"It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument" ~William G. McAdoo

"Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience"

"God had no role in the creation of the universe" ~Stephen Hawking

"Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security" ~Benjamin Franklin

Hi kerwiss,

>> Nature's force "creates" other possibilities

Small correction, sorry

"Nature's force "recovers" other possibilities"

Regards!

Please stop commenting on this thread as it gets nowhere and brings no help to the community.

The truth of the matter is that multi-culturalism, which is being promoted and directed from EU headquarters in Brussels, is steadily destroying the nation states of Europe and making them into a Masonic superstate, that will be part of the planned Masonic One-World Government and One-World Religion.

Already, it was announced that the German taxpayer MUST, and shall, pay for the mess in Greece's economy (money that could be used to support millions of Germans sinking deeper into poverty due to Arbeitslosigkeit). This directive came out of Brussels where an un-elected handful of known and unknown men govern Europe and also dictate to the rest of the world (with veiled threats to cut off financial support to govts that do not obey). These men directed that the productive output of millions of working Germans is be harnessed and channeled to bail out Greece, without the German people having a say in the matter.

All the Greeks need to do is just sit back, relax, or, better still, take a vacation somewhere on the Aegian sea, while the Germans toil and slave in order to straighten out their financial mess. Tolle Scheisse!

Now, would Indians ever accept to be taxed in order to pay, say, for Pakistan's economic problems? Definitely NO.

It will be interesting to see the reaction when Europeans wake up one day to find the marxist/socialist trap that has been closing around them over the years, finally sprung open.

Weiterhin, viele Spass Deutschland, viele Spass Europa!