Hi All,

I came to Germany on June 2004 as a Software Engineer and I have heard that the Green Card holders can make their Residence Permit independent of the employer. With this info I went to the Auslander office and they said looking at my passport, I can't do that because it is according to the old law and as per the new law I need to work in Germany for 3 years if I need to change my Residence Permit independent of the employer. Is that info true, because I heard that people who have their Green Card issued before Dec 2004, can make their Residence Permit independent of the employer.I don't know how I can argue with them (my German is far far from ideal) and can u pls point me to some term or law which I can point to them so that they will understand it correctly.Here is what written in my Residence Permit now(passport)

" Selbstandige Erwerbstatigkeit oder vergleichbare unselbstanddige Erwerbstatigkeit nicht gestattet.
Unselbstandige Erwerbstatigkeit nur als IT-Spezialist gemaß der IT-AV beider firma XXX GMBH. gestattet.
Die Aufenthaltsgenehmigunu erlischt mit Beendigung der
Beschaftigung bei obengenannten Arbeitgeber.
Keine weiteren gultigen amtlichen Eintragungen"

And it issued in June 2004 (so it is well before December 2004 and I guess it comes under the old Green Card rule)
Pls can u help me... also is there anything I need to worry as whether if current employer cancells my current Residence Permit, then will i be in trouble.That means do i need another work permit to get my new Residence Permit. At present I have resigned from my company and totally confused by the answer from the German officials... It's been 2 months I am in this confusion.

pls reply me,

Thanks in advance,
Sam.

"Is that info true", it's sadly is.

Man, you had what we consider the worse type of GC, and this not only because it is limited to your employer (or ex-employer per say) but because of the "Die Aufenthaltsgenehmigunu erlischt mit Beendigung der Beschaftigung bei obengenannten Arbeitgeber." clause, which means that your GC is void as soon as you quit or your job by XXX GmbH is terminated.

And if you really meant that you quited ("At present I have resigned from my company"), then your employer need not to cancel your GC, it is already self-cancelled.

if you are here since June 2004 and that means more than a year, you are eligible to 6 months unemployement benefits, fact is to know if they will give it to you with such a clause, some1 can say more on that?

D.

Thanks very much NoBody, but now I am terribly confused... because two of my friends who are having similar Residence Permits (who even came couple of months after me) have got their Residence Permit free of the employer. My impression was that GC issued before Dec 2004 can make their Residence Permit free of the employer.
Now regarding the unemployement benefit, I actually resigned on September 10 and then my employer send me a letter saying that he is terminating me because of "extrordinary reasons", i believe he did that to avoid paying me last month salary and he did not gave me that anyway. i did not receive any kundigung from the employer.I am bit worried abt the extra ordinary way of termination (the reason he states is that I am not returning to work after my holidays, which is not true) and can you suggest me whether this will have any impact on getting Arbeitlosgeld or a new job in Germany.

Thanks in advance for the much help.
-Sam.

@Sam

you're really hell of a case :-)

"because two of my friends who are having similar Residence Permits (who even came couple of months after me) have got their Residence Permit free of the employer. My impression was that GC issued before Dec 2004 can make their Residence Permit free of the employer", no but it was just that you ended up with the wrong guy at the ABH, some people in the same city, same ABH, have received their GC bound to the employer, others not, me for example, my GC wasn't bound to my employer, but I know some of the guys around T7 had theirs bound.
Some managed to get the binding removed after 3 years working or 4 years living, ending with a BE, when others (like me) had theirs (bound or not) changed to an EG, all that sometimes in the same ABH, so it sometimes depends on who's giving you your visa and not on the clear fact that you are here before 1.1.2005.

"I actually resigned on September 10 and then my employer send me a letter saying that he is terminating me because of "extrordinary reasons"", did you resigned (quited) or did you got fired? Because you're mixing things in your post.

Case 1: You resigned
You then got problem, because resigning takes from you 12 weeks of unemployment benefits, and that means, if you were eligible to 6, you will receive the unemployment benefits after 12 weeks (3 months approximatively) and you will remain with only 3 months. They *can* allow you to stay to search for a job, but you and me know that it can be difficult in case you don't speak German.

Case 2: You got fired
In this case, hoping you didn't signed an Aufhebungsvertrag, which will put you in case 1 above, if you have enough guts and enough money or a Rechtschutz, then go see a lawyer, because your employer fired you for stupid reasons and this is not possible per law. I'm in the same case, got fired September 15th for stupid reasons, refused to sign the Aufhebungsvertrag, now I'm already on a new job but took the case to courts against my former employer and it's an already won case for me.

So it's your call now.

D.

Thanks again NoBody.

So I will visit ABH once again hopping that I find the right person.

Now regarding my resignation. I actually resigned and gave my employer a month notice (I send him an e-mail in the company id about my resignation.). He then cancelled my company id and send me a Termination letter with the extraordinary way of termination and asked me to sign that. By then I was in a mood to just the hell out of that headache, I signed and send that back to him(Termination letter).Then there was no reply from him and after two weeks he called me with his lawyer and the lawyer asked me whether I want to return back to the company. I said no. Then they said they can't pay me one month salary and if I have to give them in writing that my all accounts with the company is finished and I told them I can't give that because you have issued me an extraordinary way of termination.

This is the present situation. I don't know whether I am messing up things or am I on the right track.

Thanks for the help,
-Sam.

"So I will visit ABH once again hopping that I find the right person", you already ended up seeing the wrong person, and it was on the day you received your visa, seeing them now won't really change a lot in that part.

"Now regarding my resignation. I actually resigned and gave my employer a month notice (I send him an e-mail in the company id about my resignation)2, normally a resignation letter has to be done on a paper and not per email, in two copies and given to the emploer, your way of dealing with e-mail is quite strange.
I think your employer already knew what was coming up, reason why he saw you with the lawyer.
In fact, they didn't fired you, you quited and this is the bad part in the whole story, and the proof of the fact that you quited is that they asked you to stay and you refused, so even before a court, I don't think your case will do much.

I don't know how it is stated in your contract, but they are not obkiged to pay you the Abfindung, if it's not clearly written in and regarind how long you been in a company plays also a role in the Abfindung part.

D.

Thanks NoBody. I was with this company since June 2004.So you are suggesting me not to mess up further by going to the court or arguing with employer about giving me a clean relieving letter ?
I have got a job in UK and I am wondering whether I will be able to come back to Germany once I join my new job in UK ? My residence permit is valid till June 2006 (eventhough it clearly says Residence Permit gets void if my job with the current employer finishes.). Did anybody forsee any problem in me visiting Germany- I haven't done de-registration with the Town Hall.And is there any way that I can get a NE. My intention is that I need to visit Germany on a regular basis. I have some good friends in here and I love to visit Europe. With a UK Work Permit u can't travel to Europe.
Please can u point me to the right direction ?

Thanks in advance,
-Sam.

Hi
@mail2sam

just an eager question could you let us know how did you manage to get a work permit to uk, i have been trying too and projects of skills are plenty there but most of them are not willing to sponsor a workpermit. Can you let us know abt it in detail

Thanks

@ Aryan, The first step ofcourse is to find the company of nterest and apply. I had visited UK before and it was quiete easy for me with the first step. Once you get a job offer, then the actual process starts... You (or the company) have to apply to the Home Office for a work permit.The requirement from the home office is that the company needs to advertise the offered position for 30 Days to the publuc and they should convince the Home Office that they could not find anybody with that particular skill set in the UK (UK citizens or UK work permit holders).Then the Home Office kick starts your workpermit application and it will take anywhere between 4 - to - 6 weeks. You are getting your Work Permit by post from UK (u r still in Germany), go to the British embassy with that and you will get your UK Work Visa for 5 years if everything goes well. The crucial part is the application with the Home Office.

@to all, can anybody throw some light on using my Residence Permit to visit Germany or getting a NE.

Thanks,
-Sam.

@to all, can anybody throw some light on using my Residence Permit to visit Germany or getting a NE
if you leave Germany, and go work in the UK, you won't be able to apply for NE, here are the reasons:
1. when applying for NE, you have to have a good knowledge of German (at least mümndlich), but if now your German is not that good, going to work in the UK won't help.
2. in case you go there and don't come back here in the next 6 months, your GC becomes void and so your residence permit, so no NE application possible
3. for some ABHs like in Berlin, when applying for NE, you have to submit a letter from your German employer that they will be having you at least for the next 6 months, but working in the UK, you won't have a German employer, so no NE application possible
4. for NE application, you need to show your 3 last salary slips so that they can see that you are not depending on the Government money, you do that, showing a UK salary slip, that means you're paying taxes elsewhere, have a non-German employer (ending you in point 3 above) and thus are not living here, so no NE application possible
5. for some ABHs like in Berlin, when applying for NE, you have to show them your rental contract and bank statements about how much and how you pay you different bills (electricity etc) and you won't be able to provide that if you live in the UK and not in Germany, so no NE applicaton possible.

Do I need to keep on giving reasons why you can't apply for NE if you leave Germany?

D.

Hi NoBody,

The points are quite convincing as to why I can't apply for NE if I leave Germany. Thanks 4 that. But can u answer the other part of it. Remember I have one of the worst type of GC and my Residence Permit which is binded to my employer is valid till June 2006. So with that can I visit Germany.Will the immigration officials find out that I don't have a job in Germany. Even if they do am I legally entitled to visit Germany as long as the Residence Permit is valid in my passport ?
-Sam.

@Sam

Remember I have one of the worst type of GC and my Residence Permit which is binded to my employer is valid till June 2006., there you do a mistake, if you still were employed by the employer your visa is bound to, then it would have been valid til June 2006 and you would have had to extend it , but also if you still were employed by the employer your visa is bound to, and that means that actually, your visa is no more valid, sad to say.

So with that can I visit Germany., with an invalid visa, no.

Will the immigration officials find out that I don't have a job in Germany., the immigration officials, surely not, and in fact when you cross the borders at the airport, they never ask for a WP or a job contract, they deal with immigration so only your passport and your visa are important for them.

Even if they did am I legally entitled to visit Germany as long as the Residence Permit is valid in my passport?, if they do, then reading the clause in your passport, they can refuse to let you enter because they will conclude that the visa is no more valid.

D.

Great help NoBody. So let me summarise :- I can enter into Germany till june 2006 because my passport has the Residence permit.Now in that case would you suggest me to do an unregistration from the local Town Hall, because I can then apply for my Social security refund and stuff like that.

It's been very nice talking to u and I will continue posting in this site....

thanks,
-Sam.

@Sam:

if you are happy about your job in UK, and your only concern is to return now and then to Germany, then you can take some sort of Tourist visa frmo UK, right?

Why this worry?

@Fred.
I could as well apply for a visit visa. But there are a number of pitfalls...
1)with a visit visa I cannot visit Switzerland(which I do quite often).
2)The German embassy in London is very busy, u need to have prior apointment and they will only issue 3 month visa(which is not very convenient because I won't stay for 3 months instead would be a frequent visitor-only weekends).
3)I thought having a Residence Permit or NE, I can come back and work in Germany any time I need(if I want to come back to Germany).

Due to these reasons (I don't know whether it is silly :-)) I thought of retaining my German Residence Permit some how.

Cheers,
-Sam.

@Sam

my nephew who is in the UK sends his applications to the German Consulate per post, he had to be there just the first time and after that he starts using the postal way because it's possible when you've already had a German visa like he did the first time. So having been in Germany would help you in that way.

And I dunno how it is, but try to ask if you can apply for a longer visa, I know it's possible for example for someone asking a UK visa: the first time, he can only apply for a 6 months visa, but by after he can apply for a longer, which I will do, applying for a 3 years visa for me and a 5 years visa for my wife and kids, it costs more but it is quite comfortable.

D.

@NoBody

I will try to get more info on the visit visa part. But as I mentioned I was looking for a way I can retain my Residence Permit because with a residence permit i can go to Swiss as well and maybe I can come back to Germany if I want in the future. (sorry 4 telling the samething again and again..)

Thanks for all the help,

Cheers,
-Sam.

You can surely retain your visa til June 2006, but you won't be able to extend it anyhow.

It's a kinda no-return decision you have to take, you can't get both, you loose one for the other full stop.

D.