Hello everybody,

Recently I went through the previous discussions about certain topics concerning new law (AufenthG) implemented in 2005 and found this forum and discussions so useful.. amazing!! You guys are really doing marvelous job helping each-other by sharing the info and your experiences. I hope you can guide me also.

I am living in Germany for last 6 years.
First 3 years as student (also did student-jobs in companies during that period.)
For last 37 months working with Green card (that also includes 5 months of unemployment).

Initially I got 5 years of Aufenthalserlaubnis till end of 2007, company bound, which got cancelled with the loss of my previous job. Later on I was always getting 1 year extensions. This year again ABH gave me 1 year of extension, again company bound and mentioned §18 AufenthG clause in my visa, although I have permanent job-contact from my company. It really pissed me off. I also find it very hard to convince ABH guys verbally (one thing is that my German is still not that good, another thing I don’t know the proper laws) So could you guys pleaseee suggest me, what should I do to get rid of company’s name and get long term work-permit without any restrictions?

BE/EG:
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Am I eligible to get BE or EG and if yes, then with which clause and what documents would I need to support that? Should I give them written application or just show them the clauses on paper? Recently I went through Trust7 discussions but still not sure what exactly to do.

NE:
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Can I also apply for NE right now, as I found some of you guys discussing that 60 Rentenbeitrags are not necessary to get NE. Is it right? Also I found that there are some supporting BMI letters stating this, if I understood it right. It would be great if someone can send me those at gbcertified@yahoo.com.

I also read it in the discussions that 50% of the time spent here as a student can also be added to the 60 months. But again with which clause??

Spouse Work-Permit:
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Now I have another doubt with my wife’s residence status. She joined me few months ago and now we need to go to ABH to get her residence-permit. Recently she got a job offer (part-time and non-IT) from a IT company, with the condition that she has to arrange a work-permit on her own. Now, as per §29.5 AufenthG, can she get work-permit (w/o AMC & company name) based on my work-permit status? Is there some other clause or magic official letter, which can help?

Thanks!

Hi vicky ... I am also in some what similar situtaion like you and many things you mentioned are not also clear to me like ..how can one get EG, BE or even NE after working for 3 years?

As far as with sposue visa, I heard that one could get it after 2 years (till 2004). I don't know if it is easier now. So if you happen to know something more, then please post it here.

Rest I think guys like nobody, DVD n others can tell more.

did you receive ALG for 5 months?
if yes you can get BE.

if not, you can get BE for IT only according to §46.2 BeschV. Look at topic "My Antrag auf Auflage Aufhebung"

Thanks for your replies.

No I didn't get any arbeitlosgeld.
But I can't see in §46.2 that with it BE will be limited to work only in IT.

Also is it possible for my wife to get WP without any AMC and restrictions, as she is here since last 8 months or so?

you can try to get NE cos some ABH take student time into accout but chances are low.

you should get BE if you have payed 36 Renten.
Did you?

Make written Antrag similar to my.

for wife you can not get anything yet.

AufenthG:
§ 29 Familiennachzug zu Ausländern
(5) Unbeschadet des § 4 Abs. 2 Satz 3 berechtigt die Aufenthaltserlaubnis zur Ausübung einer Erwerbstätigkeit, soweit der Ausländer, zu dem der Familiennachzug erfolgt, zur Ausübung einer Erwerbstätigkeit berechtigt ist oder wenn die eheliche Lebensgemeinschaft seit mindestens zwei Jahren rechtmäßig im Bundesgebiet bestanden hat.

so your wife can have Eg the same moment you get it.
or if you do not have it she can have it after 2 y in D

Thanks DVD!

Today I got my Versicherungverlauf from BFA, in which they have listed the money I have earned till Dec 2004 in Germany, and the number of months of Pflichtbeiträge (including the time when I did student jobs). e.g.
01.02.2004-30.06.2004 ***EUR 6 mon. Pflichtbeiträge
and so on........
Does Pflichtbeiträge means renten (pension contribution)?
All together it sums to exactly 36 months + I have also payed for this whole year for 2005 (not listed in letter). So it means I have payed for 36+11=47 months. So can I ask for BE as per §9.1.

For wife I checked §29.5 from AufenthG Anwendungshinweise and found following (pls correct me if I am wrong):

as per §29.5.2.2 the wife can get EG even if I don't have EG but atleast have BE.

§29.5.2.3 says if husband is entitled to Beschäftigung without needeing approval from AA, so should be wife.

§29.5.2.4 says that domain (e.g IT) restriction should not be transferred from husband to wife.

So with this, should I hope to get BE or even EG (if I get BE first) for my wife also? Moreover she already has a part-time job offer.

you should get Be or Eg

funny but if you get Eg she should also
BUT if you get Be law says nothing, so she would need to wait 2 years

so try from beginning to get Eg for you. than it will be easier for her.

tip: say you want to do the same job and some small Nebentätigkeiten beside
you can use my Antrag for Eg, but add Nebentätigkeit

But what is the exact difference between EG and BE? With Erwerbstätigkeit(EG), will I be able to work under a employer as usual?

I know the clauses for BE with new gesetz but where to find for EG?

DVD... in your letter, I could only find "Beschäftigung", but couldn't see "Erwerbstätigkeit" mentioned anywhere.

Thanks!

you are right. it is not there and ABH can give you Eg but they do not have to
as I said few things are missing in my letter.
most important reason why do I need new Auflage is not there.

if you say reason is Nebentätigkeit you will probably get Eg because only with Eg you can do Nebentätigkeit. I said so and I got Eg.
and for you Eg is much better cos wife can also get Eg than.

Try to getEG for yourself and your spouse will automatically get EG too. Best of luck.

Thnaks DVD & Inderkinder!

BE is limited for 3 years as per § 13.2 (BeschVerfV)
"Die Zustimmung wird für die Dauer der Beschäftigung, längstens für drei Jahre erteilt."

And what about EG? Will it be also valid for 3 years or longer?

DVD.. Very soon I am planning to go to ABH with your letter to apply for EG, with the following changes marked with "...". Please let me know if it looks ok to you.

hiermit stelle ich einen Antrag auf Aufhebung der Auflage zum Aufenthaltstitel; "which would entitle me to do Erwerbstätigkeit."

Nach einer rechtmäßigen versicherungspflichtigen Beschäftigung im Bundesgebiet von mehr als drei Jahre, erfülle ich gemäß § 9 Abs. 1 Nr. 1 BeschVerfV die Bedingungen zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung "(Erwerbstätigkeit)" ohne Prüfung nach § 39 Abs. 2 Satz 1 Nr. 1 des Aufenthaltgesetzes.

Neue Auflage zum Aufenthaltstitel darf nach § 9 Abs. 4 BeschVerfV hinsichtlich der beruflichen Tätigkeit, des Arbeitgebers und der Dauer der Beschäftigung nicht beschränkt werden, "which would enable me to do small Nebentätigkeiten beside my current job".

"Also I would like to mention that I am financially secured because of my permanent job and during my 6 years of stay in Germany, I never had to rely on Sozial hilfe or Arbeitslosgeld."

are you going to write it in deutsch-english?

BE and EG are unlimited work permit. so they can not be limited to 3 years as you can see even in your text.

@Everyone:

- Can anyone please explain what is the real difference between EG and BE ? Which one is better ?

- Is this reference (http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/beschverfv.html#9) enough to convince the beamter for an EG/BE ? or there is something else which can be shown as well.

- I have the following text on my German work permit right now 'ERWERBSTÄTIGKEIT NUR UNSELBSTANDIG GEMÄß § 1 IT-AV LÄNGSTENS BIS ZUM 30.06.2006 UND GEMÄß GÜLTIGER ARBEITSERLAUBNIS GESTATTET. DIE AUFENTHALTSGENEHMIGUNG AUF SEITE 12 ERLISCHT MIT BEENDIGUNG. DER BESCHÄFTIGUNG ALS ANALYST GEM § 1 IT-AV'. What text can I expect on the new visa when I get a BE/EG ?

- What documents does one have to take when applying for BE/EG ? Does the BE/EG application gets processed on the same day ?


@Viking: Could You please email Your final EG letter to me at nitin.malhotra@khalsa.com ? once You have its final version.


Thanks for Your help,
Nitin.

Sorry, I meant:

@Vicky: Could You please email Your final EG letter to me at nitin.malhotra@khalsa.com ? once You have its final version.

in your pass will be written:
Be-Beschäftigung erlaubt (no freelancing)
or
Eg-Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet.

your current visa is almost as bad as binded visa because it's invalid if you lose job.
with Be or Eg that will not be the case

nitin why don't you take version from net.
vicky will add few things to it but on the end it could be worse than it is now if his german isn't good enough.

@DvD:

Thanks for Your reply.

So as I understand, my visa is NOT binded to my current employer but is still binded to the IT industry, and would be invalid if I loose my current job. Correct ?

I read that Your letter does not explicitely ask for EG. I am not sure what to change in there to make it explicitely ask for EG.


@DvD and Everyone:

- Does anyone know the real difference between EG/BE ? Which one is better and which one should I apply for ?

- Is the reference in my previous mail enuff for getting EG/BE ?

- What documents does one have to take when applying for BE/EG ? Does the BE/EG application gets processed on the same day ?


Thanks,
Nitin.

Hi Nitin,
This is equally complicated for many GCs
I tried to understand the actual meaning behind
''Erwerbstätigkeit''
Refer the following thread.

http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/help_needed/eg_with_selbstaendigkeit_erlaubt/re_eg_with_selbstaendigkeit_erlaubt__5

I think, to Get a clean ' erwerbstätigkeit für selbstäntige ausubung erlaubt''
one has to go through the Handelskammer Channel.They need to approve your business plan and then it comes back to the Auslanderbehörde.After that you get your Erwerstätigkeit für selbständige ausubung erlaubt.

The Behördes are pretty smart and they issue EG but always with some extra sentences, which vorbids the GC to perform 100% selbständige activities (Like yours with example)

regards
GnR

with Eg you can have your own firma
with Be you can only be employee at some firma.

there is reason why I did not ask for Eg.
cos law says that for Eg you need 1 milion euro and to employ 10 people. Only than they MUST give Eg. Milion euro should prove that you can open company. otherwise could everyone without penny get to D, make a firma and get him a visa.

so I just said I want to do Nebentätigkeit. that way it is clear that i do not want to open my firma and it is clear that I do not need milion euro to employ 10 people. so they could give me only Be but with it I can not have Nebentätigkeit. that means I need Eg or nothing.
So I got Eg

for docs needed you can see list in my Antrag on the end but your ABH can ask something else.

@DVD: ofcourse my final Antrag to ABH will all be in German Now I got the additional things translated, which I had mentioned in english before. Today I am going to ABH. Thanks DVD for the antrag and for your suggestions. Let's see what ABH guys have to say.

@Nitin: I just made little changes in DvD's antrag as suggested by him. I will send it to you in the evening.

@Vicky:

Good luck and please don´t send your letter just to Nitin. I´m changing job also and the letter of DVD or yours can also help me.

But my case and the others are not exclusive. If is it possible for you, just make the letter public here for everybody just like DVD made.

Thanks again and good luck!

@Vicky:

Best wishes.
I am also in same boat. So could you please also mail me on this address viveks_p@yahoo.com
thanks in advance.
Vivek

Yesterday I went to ABH with the Antrag and they told me that they will inform me about the outcome by post.

@Nitin & Vivek: I have already sent you antrag per email. As I already mentioned before, it's almost same like of DvD but with some small addition.

@YO1: Antrag is too big to post it here. So pls let me know about ur email id.

Hi Vicky,

can I please also send a copy to me at:
cybigi@googlemail.com

Thank you.

cybigi

DVD,

You need 1m € and 10 employees, only when you dont have any residence permit in Germany, and want to come here and invest.

But after spending 3 years in DE, in case you are interested in EG for 100% selbständig purposes, theres no need for 1 million, 10 employees etc. You just need the handelskammer approval to your business plan and then comes the EG (But Applications, B-plan to be submitted to Ausländerbehörde, they co-ordinate with IHK). And of course , you gotta prove
€25,000 paid up cap for your Gmbh, or GmbH & Co.KG etc.That'll be counterchecked by the behörde.

GnR

Eg is the same for 1% Selbstständigkeit and for 100%. So if one wants Eg there are better ways than 25k € and GmbH. You can do Ich AG.

I got Eg without Ich AG or GmbH or B-Plan.

So why do it hard way when it also goes easy way?

Hello everybody,

Today I got BG (Beschäftigung gestattet), without any restrictions, stamped on my passport. But they gave me residence permit valid till next year, which I couldn't understand, as I have permanent job. The ABH guy said it can be extended later on and their usual bla bla. So again my question is for how long can I live and work with BE?

Although I mentioned in my antrag that I want to do Nebenjobs, still I didn't get EG

EG or BG is not a big deal if you do not want to freelance.

How long AE will they give you is their decision.
You can hardly change it.

Thanks DvD! Your antrag was of a great help.

But what about validity of Arbeitserlaubnis with BE? Is it unlimited now with BE?

§ 13 Beschränkung der Zustimmung (BeschVerfV)
(1) Die Zustimmung zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung kann hinsichtlich

1. der beruflichen Tätigkeit,
2. des Arbeitgebers,
3. des Bezirkes der Agentur für Arbeit und
4. der Lage und Verteilung der Arbeitszeit
beschränkt werden.
(2) Die Zustimmung wird für die Dauer der Beschäftigung, längstens für drei Jahre erteilt.

Also what does (1)-4. der Lage und Verteilung... and (2) Die Zustimmung..... mean??

Be or Eg is WP and it is unlimited.
even if AE is limited WP (Be or Eg) is unlimited.
If someone searches for job with such a visa he can say he has unlimited WP.