Hi all

Today I´ve woke up with my only neuron in movement, and a little bit concerned about our future I´d like to share my thoughts with all of you.

In the time I´ve been here, I receive some job offers (not billions, in fact just 4) from my home country or the "neighborhoods" and I have rejected quite fast.

But yesterday I received another offer. I startet to write an email to reject it with elegancy and I stopped. The offer was really interesting, incredibly good job and exceptionally good money for those lattitudes.

So, what´s the point: what have we here? Which are really our possibilities? Really worth the effort we will have to make to be here? Which are truly the efforts we have to make to be here?

But I guess the most important question each of us has to make to itself is if we can do anything to make pressure to anyone who can ASAP define our situation. I allways raise my voice to stay in Germany but my point of view is changing.

As wisely trusday (sorry but what is lol?) told us yesterday, all the cards are on the table, but none of this cards seems to give us possibilities to win the round. We are in a kind of "Legal Limbo", and the time is passing and the government is leaving us alone, giving the aamt the possibility to decide over the "case to case" basis and this is Schrott (I don´t want to use a stronger word in english or a 100 times stronger word in spanish).

I will hold my answer for this job till tomorrow, just because I´d like to "hear" your comments.

Thanks to all for your help

YO

Hello YO,

There is no point we should discuss this issue for so long and that too with any results/change in the politicians attitude. criticism is welcome to the above statement.

For any sort of long term plan, Germany could not prove to be a very rosy ground. This is my personal experience spending almost two and half years trying to learn the language and integrating hard with the society.

If you really get a good opportunity (really good), I think it all depends upon your personal goals of life as well. Finding a senior position here would certainly take a long time than back at your home where you have the 'local knowledge' advantage. I mean there are many pros and cons of the question you have put in currently. I hope many others in the forum have also other ideas for the same.

Regards,
Starter.

Hi YO,

I vaguely remember seeing your photo. If i am not wrong you should be around 40+ years of age. Correct me if i am wrong..

Now to the points to be considered. You have most of your friends back home. And this is not the age where you can make great friends here in Germany who will be your emotional support when you are 60+. This sounds ridiculous, but one needs friendship especially during the time when you have really nothing to do (I mean when you are retired).

And not every day you get really good offers. Thats the fun of it. You are taking a risk, like you are giving up something in hand for something that could be worthy. Money is not every thing. And remember one thing,, if you stay too long in Germany, you will be crippled in being street smart and taking risks. The simple reason is everything here is more or less, certain and the life is relatively easier. So we tend to get accustomed and become slow. Thats not the case back home. You need to be ever watchful and street smart and always up on your toes. Otherwise you are a lagging behind. I am not sure from which country you are but, it applies to my country Bharat(India).

I am sure, you will be certainly missing the opportunity to visit lot of countries, Auto Bahns, Luxury cars etc.. But again,, the luxuries back home like, a servant maid, easy life(when you got money) and the simple pleasures like reading news paper(local language) while sipping a cup of coffee in your home.. Your friends, family and everything regarding your mother country are the bonus for going back. I am not sure if you have SUN round the year.. If yes, thats another added bonus..

Think about it.. Most important, is think what will you do if you stay beyond 50 years, most of us, (I cant speak for you..) but for me, its hard to find my childhood friends here in Germany. And i am sure, i will have not have any close friends here. Think about it, life is not all about making money, but its also about spending it.. ;)

Hope this helps.. Best of luck

Cmreddy

Hi YO,
I would agree with CM Reddy. Think about it.

Hi CM Reddy,
Well drafted response.I specially liked the following section section.
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And remember one thing,, if you stay too long in Germany, you will be crippled in being street smart and taking risks. The simple reason is everything here is more or less, certain and the life is relatively easier. So we tend to get accustomed and become slow. Thats not the case back home.
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You are right, i have the same feeling.Somehow i am losing the risk takin element and getting slow.

regards
GnR

Hi YO!

After a quite long time I would like to break my silence and put my views on your mail.

Its been quite some time that we are around in Germany. In fact come 1 or 1.5 years and our Green Cards will finally start expiring.

Personally I am working on a commendable position for a big German IT company and I got this break after really struggling hard earlier. Today, I am quite sure they will retain me even after 5 years and they have even shown willingness to do so.

But back in my mind I always ask one question to myself. Are we really satisfied here? Even if I stay here for next 10 years more, I will be referred to as an 'Ausländer'. No matter how much German language I master, this hurdle is going to remain here. In last 3 odd years we all are more or less struggling and pushing the authorities to let us know their decision. But the bureaucracy in Germany has really proved itself. Somewhere we all need to take a decision about whether to really form a long-term career in this country on the background of such uncertainties. No matter who rules.. whether CSU or CDU, the things are not drastically going to change and we have experienced this as well!

So, lets accept this as a reality of life and lets filter out the bad part such as bureaucracy etc. and gather the good things that we learnt here in 5 years. We have gathered enough experience which can gain us a very good job back in our countries or in another country, where "Ausländers" are quite common and not creatures from an unknown planet.

We have also seen here, the newer technologies and how best they can be brought in to everyday use. Why don't we really decide to move out of this country and benefit our own countries with this knowledge wealth?

Ultimately, I personally feel that if we move back to our own lands, we would have hardly anything to loose. Whether we seek Jobs or we start some ventures on our own, the chances of succeeding are much better than struggling here and getting overlooked anyway.

Sorry for writing a bit harsh note, but think of it.. its a reality.

Many thanks
K.Rider

hi Rider,
how're you doin mate?Its been a long time since you posted.
I am thinking on similar terms and was in slight doubt.So went back home (clubbed with an urlaub) for a short visit to check out the facts.I am very happy and relieved to see the tremendous opportunity back home and have seriously started considering relocating myself back.What you mentioned is 'volkomm recht'.
Even if i stay here for 10 years, nothing will change.The atitude relating to an 'ausländer' will stay till the dinosaurs come back to earth again.
Anyways was nice to hear you back in the forum.
regards
GnR

Hello YO,

last year for 2 months i have had the opportunity to work in branch of my office in my home country. It was a great experience. I met local colleagues and refreshed my experience working at home. I did ask whether i can join them and ask for an offer. Actually they offered a position and competitive salary (compared to local market). But they said that since i am still young (below 30), i would be better to get more experience abroad. After some time you can come home and bring that experience.
What i can learn is, it is ok that we can work here but just do not disconnect the network back home. We should visit them regularly, give me update what we have done.
After some time, we must say to ourselves that it is enough working in Germany and try to decide something else. Otherwise you will lose your power because you are used to get things easily.

Hi YO,

Probably you got tired of reading all these notes down here but like all said it is your long term goal, which is bothering. What do you want to acheive? Have a wish or goal and work hard on it not bothering, which country you are in. I see always the law is pushed in the back seat but if yount your green card days you are in deadlock situation. What you can do? If I were you I would have already set some alternatives, which I always emphasize. You know the starting and ending point when you set your goals it really doeasn't matter which path you take it only matters did you achieve it. Life is full of uncertainity everywhere so don't get panic with the hurdles you will face. So now you need a piece of paper and pen not computer to draw your short, middle and long term goals. Do that first!

Personally for me Germany is not the last place I visit because I set my goals. If I acheive or not I don't care but I will work hard for these!

Germany in they years to come needs atleast 43,000 immigrants each year to fulfill their dreams so they need this immigration law sooner or later but only thing is we might not see them in the worst case scenario. Even you get immigration you will maximum end up having a moderate life here because you are bound to certain limits.

This is just my opinion!

regards,
Nitin

Hi all

First of all, I have to say Thanks to all of you who took time to answer my post. Here you can see how wrong are all in the opinions of no possibilities to make friends here.

Till now, I´ve no answered the email of the job offer, but it was because I had two incredibly ugly working days with no time to do that, but my answer will be "Thanks but no". I´ll keep fighting here but I don´t thing I´ll make it for all my life. Sometimes the man receives signals and have to take care of them, I guess this is one.

You have helped me a lot just reading the different positions of all, but allways with a common point: nobody thinks Germany is a place to live forever.

Why I´m saying no? Just to clarify some points from my life:

1. I always had clear my short/medium/long time objectives. I find myself comfortable with them and I can say I am a lucky man, because I have allmost all what I wanted to get, thanks God.

2. About the position: before comming to Germany, I had a Senior position. I came here also as a Senior. My salary is not the salary of Bill Gates, but not all is money. I quit a very good contract with an American company to be here.

3. cmreddy is ABSOLUTELY wrong. I´m just 38, so far from the 40+ he wrote.

And the last point I guess is the point keeps me here. I´ve made a lot of things in my life. I worked really hard from 7 to 23 all the days (also sundays) for many years because I wanted to finish my university career while I was working and this could do because I made it with my wife. After that, I start working first out of my province and then out of my country, but always without relocation.

Now, I guess I´m tired. I came here looking for stability (job) and a little bit of calm, and I guess I could get that (maybe too much calm isn´t it?).

So, thanks again. By now I´ll be in Germany but I will keep my eyes and ears opened and I will take a while to think what can I do when my GreenCard turns to red card (december 2007).

Last point: big surprise the post of master K.Rider. Nice to know from you pal (I was always updated of your movements ;-)) and noch mal Danke an alles!

YO

hi YO!
From your vers first posting i got the impression that your green card is expiring in 2005.Now i understand its upto 2007.
GnR

Hi GnR

I had posted it a couple of times. My GC expires on 2007. OK, not really true, expires in 2004 because you know Beamters. This year I will have to go again, pay again, and proving I have job then I will receive the rest of my 5 years. I have tried three times, my contract is "Unbefristete", but some people is so square head that scares and I have learned here is better making the things in the usual and "aproppiate" form and not in another.

Maybe you were confused about my GC end date because I don´t want to be passive waiting what happens to the others GC with expiration date on 2005. This is speculation and I´ tired of speculators. I am too old for that and greatfully I would like to make anything before the boat sinks (IF the boat sinks)

Regards

YO

Hi YO,
good that you have options & whatever path you choose, it will be you who will reap the fruits of the decision. I wish you all the best. After all, more the number of happy people, make many more happy..

Cheers,
Cmreddy

hello everybody,
I am Chandra, belonging to the same group of GC holders.....
I just registered myself in trust7......
Coming to your discussions,my only point would be to realise whats going to come with us once we leave this cosmos.Germany looks fine with job security, decent salary, etc etc....but my point is wherever we may be,nothing can beat our motherland that has bred us for more than a quarter of our lifespan.Young people go around the world seeking for adventure which is very well embedded in our blood. We may plan our goals,we may plan our career, we may plan our bank balance.etc etc etc etc......but not even a single speck is going to come along with us except the happiness that we have given people around us. So there is no point worrying about these rules and regulations affecting us.
Germany is not the only country in this world nor does it give us all that we wanted. Man's desires have no bounds.
So lets work hard for the moment and live for the moment rather than worrying about something thats going to happen after a few years. Provided the present moment is good,let us be positive that our expectations will turn to be positive standing the test of time.
I too have my grievances regarding this country, but we can change nothing. This country will be like this and we have to be flexible enough to change our opinions as we are the one who are affected. Neither the Muellers nor the Schroeders nor the Stoibers are going to worry for us. The have their own materialistic goals to meet their ends.
So let us not lament and better find solutions rather than blaming this so called 'Freundlichkeit' assured to us when inviting us to improve their economy.

"And remember one thing,, if you stay too long in Germany, you will be crippled in being street smart and taking risks."

"You are right, i have the same feeling.Somehow i am losing the risk takin element and getting slow."

? :o try to open your business here. or try to prolong your residence and work permits when your GC expires and there is no immigration law and big unemployment rate. or even better advice: try to make your movements not in usual and "appropriate" way *lol* ;)

"The atitude relating to an 'ausländer' will stay till the dinosaurs come back to earth again."

lol good said! but is it different in India? i thought that society there is even more closed than in Germany ;)

the problem here is not in the country, the problem is in you. you say that nothing can make you forget your motherland, you say that your friends and family are abroad, you see this land as a foreign ground and must at least once per year visit your homeland ... you say yourself that you are an "Ausländer", and the society just agrees with you. Or did you think that Germans can give up their land and allow it to be remade in New India? :o I guess that firstly dinosaurs will come back to earth again, 'cause it's more real

"I have learned here is better making the things in the usual and "aproppiate" form and not in another."

but you will never change your social group here if you make everything in the usual form. people are used to defend their bread, you can jump in another social group only if you find a hole in the fence which was overlooked ;)

yup, answering a question: lol normally means nothing, it is just commonly used in chats and some forums where i write

lol means "laugh out loudly"

"lol means "laugh out loudly""

so it is written in books