Hi all

Yesterday morning appears in Südwestpresse a kind of brief of main points for the new law. I read it from Aufenthaltstitel.de:

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/zuwg/0352.html

There is the same strupid clasification in "Hoch" and "Mittel" qualified IT people.

As far as I understand, if you are "Hoch*" your life here can be long. If you are "Mittel*" sounds to me like our beloved and discussed Befristerte Aufenthalts* and so on. Maybe the same sh..?

On the other way, I heard in the radio this morning, now some politicians are starting a fight about the costs for the integration courses and says it must be ruled in which cases Germany will pay those courses, because Germany can´t afford all the courses for foreigners.

Any other voice about this subject?

Regards

YO

I spent a lot of time trying to find a draft of the low, but I found only the first proposals of the CDU/CSU.

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/fremdinhalte/aenderungen.html

Yes Marox9 this is the draft.

But, bad news for you, in the yesterday´s thread this link appeared.

I guess personnaly SPD cannot and won´t just barely sign what CDU/CDS propose. This will be discussed and surely will emerge a combined proposal.

But the interesting thing is CDU propose first the same f.....g Aufenthatserlabunis UP TO 5 years, that don´t means you have to wait 5 years. Maybe with a couple of years here, the integration courses and a good contract you can "negociate" something in the Auslanderamt.

But, to many supositions for me. Better to wait for anything more concrete dont´t it?

Regards

YO

"But, to many supositions for me. Better to wait for anything more concrete dont´t it?"

LOL man isn't it you who first gave us information that SPD and CDU have reached an agreement? now they are working on a new draft, which should be ready till 17.06, if i correctly understood it. therefore we just need to wait until it is published ;)

and even if it completely does not suit our needs, i guess there is a little that can be done before it is accepted. you guys were running a PR-campaign for a long period of time - did politicians hear you? but when a law is accepted which make conditions worse than they were before, it's possible to file a claim (Verfassungsbeschwerde) to a constitutional court ... and accordingly to german legal system such a claim costs nothing to a claimant

Hey LOL Trusday:

Easy man (in fact you´re man or woman?)!

Yes, I do tell you all about the agreement, but please, 66 posts after the post of pwehrli is too much supositions for me. Sorry. To many "IFs", too many legal tricks. Read the post of Sudaca a couple of weeks ago and maybe you can understand me. That´s what I´m talking about when I say "let´s wait till the law...". Please don´t misunderstand me.

In another way, I agree with you 200% about our claiming for our rights. Count me in for a claim is something is not fair. One of the things that bothers me was this clause somebody posted of degrading our rights. No law can go against the supreme law, what is allways the Constitution of a country.

So, LOL, let´s see what happens. Let´s discuss and shout out loud (SOL?) for our rights

YO

lol i am sorry, guess that my answer was somewhat harsh, didn't mean it to be so. just wanted to point out that we are basically speculating over nothing, as there is no new information available

Nothing to be sorry about here, it's very well understandable (except by politicians ) that people are tired to be closed in the dark room without knowing whether the door to the light will be opened deliberately or they should better try to find another way to escape. although position of politicians is understandable as well - firstly they need to think what is better for their country and only after that - what is better for us

Once there is a final draft of the new law available, i will analyse it and present my opinion

H. trusday ;)

Hi,

at least Gott sei Dank they let us to keep working. After this and that debat in television and parliament, ich habe kein Lust mehr, um hier in Deutschland mehrere Jahre mehr zu leben. I don't need unbefristete Aufenthalterlaubnis anymore although I have an unbefristete work contract. I don't want be a begger here in front of those politicians.
My daughter was born here, she is used to hear German in her Kinderkrippe, but I would not let her to beg to live here when the politicians don't want to. It's their country, not mine.
For me it's enough to have befristete Aufenthalterlaubnis. If they don't want to prolong my Green Card, than forget it. I salute the cynical word from Harianto Wijaya: he doesn't want to be escorted to the airport because his visa invalid anymore. So do I.

For safety reason, they want more strict law on "Hassprediger". Go on, I'm not one of them. But I don't want to be prejudiced as if all foreigners are trouble maker. You see Metin Kaplan in Cologne, who is accused as "Hassprediger". But how many followers does he have? Are you going to say that all Turk Muslims are his followers? I'm not. But media says in the way as if he is the hero for all Muslims. It's the same way as the Hollywood films tell us as if all the Germans are Nazis (and antisemit as well). Who is Kaplan anyway? He's "only" a radical preacher that because of his intentions was sentenced in his country. And at that time in his country, doing so could be punished by death penalty. Then he begged to Germany as asylant and accepted. Then he back to his old "hobby" and became a media star in Germany, and probably, in the world.

Come on, let start thinking what to do if our visa not prolonged. Back home is also not too bad choice. Let have dignity not to be seen as if we the foreigners are the source of all the problem. We need each other, not only in one way.

Regards,
NN

NN or esta74

Please sign me an autograph. You express my thoughts better than me. I´m with you.

I didn´t beg to come here, I chose it among a couple of options.

I also have a kid borned here, of course not german, I also have a daughter who speaks and play with another kids in German but I also have my proud and also won´t search the small letters of the law to be here.

I was almost sure to be here after the f....g 5 years, I am not so sure now, but at least I want the oportunity to choose. I´m tired others take my decissions as I suffered in my home country.

So, please in black and white, we can stay or no, very clear.

Regards

YO

http://de.fc.yahoo.com/z/zuwanderung.html

Hello All,

Thanks for the nice exchange of ideas in here.
Actually I was today in the Rathaus, and the woman there told me that until now the new law did NOT say anything new about the Greencarders!!!??? SO this makes ma a lit nervous coz after 3 years now in Germany, I do not know what will happen with me after 2 years (all by all, 5 years)... SO my majour concern is : Did anyone of u guys see any point in the law proposal of somewhere else saying about the extension of GC?? Will the IT people get the PR (unbefristet) or will be be thrown out after we finish the 5 years?????
thanks
zash

zash you missunderstud something.
There won't be anything specific abut GC in law.
This law is some extension of GC idea so it is breiter than GC (for more professions) so there is no need that he sais something about GC.
GC extension or Verlängerung will be in this new law same as any other Visa Verlängerung.
So when this new law sais that Hochqualifizierte can enter Deutschland and after 3 years they get PR,
than that for us means that we get PR immidiately because we allready have that 3 years.
3 is for example, but it will not be more than 1 because CDU wants 1 and SDP wants to give PR at the begining.
So chances are more than good, only if law comes.

Hi DvD

So as I understand from you, if the new law comes, there is the possibility to get the PR before finishing the 5 years?? Actually I did not see this in the law proposal so if you can please tell me where can I read it? I really hope that we can get the PR after spending 4 years here for example and before finishing the 5 years because exactly at the 5 years limit, my residence permit and also my contract and also my work permit FINISH and so I am afraid to be thrown out exactly when i finish the 5 years???
zash

The CDU's proposals point at § 9 of the immigration law. As far as I understood the 5 years limit is not changed. They wanted to change at § 9 only few words.

Regards,
Marius

Actually from the begining was said that this GC Regelung will be changed with new law.
Did you guys noticed that Schröder wants to get law before 5 year of GC is over so that Ausländerbehörde sends us nicht nach Hause, which they would gladly and certainly do in most of the cases.

Do you get it what a shame would that be on Germany that german law allows PR to some muslim militant, that was to militant even for Turkey, and IT people get kick in the ass.
Don't you understand that Schröder wants to change it because if that is not changed all smart ones will run away from Deutschland and only militant terorists will come here to plan terorism.

"Re: Zuwanderungsgesetz draft?
Hi DvD

So as I understand from you, if the new law comes, there is the possibility to get the PR before finishing the 5 years?? Actually I did not see this in the law proposal so if you can please tell me where can I read it? I really hope that we can get the PR after spending 4 years here for example and before finishing the 5 years because exactly at the 5 years limit, my residence permit and also my contract and also my work permit FINISH and so I am afraid to be thrown out exactly when i finish the 5 years???
zash"

Law is yet unknown.
Even draft is unknown.
When it is accepted you will know.
Until then we can only guess.
And that how GC will be treated won't be written.
You should conclude between the lines.

Just a thought,

If the 60 months pension payment is required, how can one get PR before 5 years.

Final explanation:

You should try to translate GC into Hochqualifizierte(HQ) and than search.

That with 60 months or 5 years that works for everybody, even if he can not write, and that was allways so. Because of that there would be no need to change the law at all

GC Regelung has it's pandan in HQ Regelungen in the new law.

If you are feeling yourself nervous, please download the video and enjoy it 6 megs, it may take a while.

http://www.melendiz.net/video/fua_low.mov

By gods grace may the German GCCCCCC's rest in peace and happiness. I think it is time we shoot a video based on the same concept -Fck u 'll Grmn. Polit'ns-

Hi nreddy,

I think we shouldn't forget, that one politician with initial FM, has said this just after Schroeder administration launched Green Card program: "Kinder statt Inder!". It has been many years a go, but it's good to be remembered.
I'm not an Indian, but I was getting insulted. It's once again a "blame out" vision, that all the problem comes from foreigners. Those foreigners, who only want to take away Germans' jobs. The foreigners. who never obey the law. The foreigners, who always make everything worse. Please tell me if FM ever asked forgiving.
If FM wanted to urge the Germans to make a lot of children, it's OK. The problem is, he should not use the word "Inder", as the fact that majority of Green Card holders are Indians in the sake of his political campaign. It's even a little bit rascist in my opinion. Ich bin tief verletzt und kann nicht mehr sagen, wieso in einem "zivilisierten" Land wie Deutschland solche Aussage doch nicht verboten ist!

So nreddy, you don't need to be angry with those politicians. It's their country, not ours. I remember that my family has a good opportunity to have many good neighbours here. My colleagues at work never be like Mr. FM, they are very nice. We're working together, we're helping each other, we make some jokes and laugh together. The most Germans that both my wife and I know, are very nice and are always ready to help.
But don't ask me if I read the newspaper, it's terrible. As if we all could be blamed of what those damned Kaplan, Mzoudi, Motasadeq, etc have done. Why don't they think the same way like when Germany faced Rote Armee Faktion terror in 1970s? They built good cooperation with the people until they won. Today it's more difficult because they choose to "protect" the German people by always repeating the same song: the foreigners, it's again the foreigners, are the main problem of our country. They said even acceptance from "Hochqualifizierte" should look at the situation of the job market. My question is simple: isn't it already included in our prerequisites before our work permit passed by Arbeitsamt? Why do they repeat it again and again?

So, nreddy, don't be upset. I only want to tell the reality. The ball is not at those politicians, it's ours. If they let us to stay, we stay. But if they say we must go, we go. Tell the world that we are professionals wherever we are. Once again, I am inspired by Harianto Wijaya, who has showed that it's us, not them, who can choose our own way...
Sure, I should be very thankful to my company for paying all my trainings and courses for many years. I like work there very much. My company supports my career very well. But nobody can do if those politicians said: five years enough. Go out! It's democracy, and legal.
We could build a huge worldwide network to work in. We don't need to pay 45% tax anymore, we don't need to pay high Rentenversicherung anymore, we don't have to hear those politicians anymore. Just be global. The German companies have begun this effort by relocating their IT department to Bangalore and China. What about German employees who'll loose their jobs? Then ask the politicians, they know the way better!

Cheers,
NN

Sorry, it's not FM, it's JR. So please read my opinion above by changing every FM by JR...