Hello, I just received application form for NE from Atm. The amt people says that I must submit 60 month pension proof get NE. I beleive this is not required any more. Isn't it? Can anyone point the law, where it says its required to have or not required have. It would be a great help.

Thx a lot.

rds
Ben

AufenthG § 104  Übergangsregelungen
... 
(2)  Bei Ausländern, die vor dem 1. Januar 2005 im Besitz einer Aufenthaltserlaubnis oder Aufenthaltsbefugnis sind, ist es bei der Entscheidung über die Erteilung einer Niederlassungserlaubnis hinsichtlich der sprachlichen Kenntnisse nur erforderlich, dass sie sich auf einfache Art in deutscher Sprache mündlich verständigen können. § 9 Abs. 2 Satz 1 Nr. 3 und 8 findet keine Anwendung.

hm...

are you sure about this? If it was so then that says also (satz 1) you do not need 5 years and you do not need 60 months (satz 3) so all the GC can get it before the 5 years expire???

The way I understand is the following:
1. if salary bigger than 84000 euro, can get NE directly.
2. if salary smaller than 84000 euro, can get limited working visum.

If you got GC before 01.01.2005, salary lower than 84000, and haven't paid 60 months pensions, you fall to the limited working visum point 2.

Please read the whole law completely.

Of course there is always incompetent AB beamter who interpreted the law by mood, if you are lucky enough to get one :-D

@cybigi: read that Übergangsregelungen again, and again. It is written black on white: "Bei Ausländern, die vor dem 1. Januar 2005 im Besitz einer Aufenthaltserlaubnis oder Aufenthaltsbefugnis sind.... § 9 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 und 8 findet keine Anwendung."

If you'll take a look at § 9 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 and 8 you'll see:

"3. er mindestens 60 Monate Pflichtbeiträge oder freiwillige Beiträge zur gesetzlichen Rentenversicherung geleistet hat oder Aufwendungen für einen Anspruch auf vergleichbare Leistungen einer Versicherungsoder Versorgungseinrichtung oder eines Versicherungsunternehmens nachweist; berufliche Ausfallzeiten auf Grund von Kinderbetreuung oder häuslicher Pflege werden entsprechend angerechnet,"
"8. er über Grundkenntnisse der Rechts- und Gesellschaftsordnung und der Lebensverhältnisse im Bundesgebiet verfügt"

The important thing is that you don't have to prove that you paid 60 Month pension. Print the law and show it to the beamter. If he/she denies that, ask to speak with their boss. I had the same problem as Ben and I got NE after the boss said that i'm right. And I know I am.

It is strange.
Seems that the Section 104 contradict with section 9.
It it is true, mean every GC can get NE automatically even without 60 montsh pension contribution.
any input?

Guys.. I am sorry but.. there is nothing to discuss here.. 60 months of pension payment is not needed for the people who had a residence permit before 1.1.2005.. punkt !

Regards,

Lacrima

yes, condition 3 (60 months pension) and 8 shouldn't be applied for us but condition 1 isn't fulfilled (AF > 5 years) :-D

"yes, condition 3 (60 months pension) and 8 shouldn't be applied for us but condition 1 isn't fulfilled (AF > 5 years)"

Guys.. WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ? what is not fullfilled ? if you want to apply for NE, you have to live in Germany for 5 years but you dont need to have 60 months of pension payment, in case you had a residence permit before 1.1.2005 ?
so please.. where is the contradiction here ?

AufenthG. 104 Paragraph 2. says:
§ 9 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 und 8 findet keine Anwendung.

so where is the relevance of §9 Abs. 2 condition 1 here ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Please read it:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#104
before posting:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#9

Thanks,

Lacrima

Hello Lacrima,

Thank you for the fruitfull discussion and input.
I think in my case is different.
I studied here for 1,5 years (with aufenhaltbeewilligung) then got GC.
In my passport, the aufenhalterlaubnis is only for 3 years and 3 months because of my passport will expire before 5 years.

now I want to apply for resident permit extension.
If I understand correctly, for my case:
I got AE before 01.01.2005
I don't fullfill:
1. point one -> because I have AE only for 3 years 3 monts
2. point 3 and 8 shouldn't be applied.

But I still can't apply for NE because of AE less than 5 years.

I was contacted by relocation agen that my company assigned. They told me that I can't apply NE because of my condition doesn't fulfill.

Unless trust7 lawyear can do something else, I am thinking about to use trust7 lawyer instead of the relocation agent.

"But I still can't apply for NE because of AE less than 5 years."

Correct.. because "Bewilligung" is not "Erlaubnis" and §9 needs "Erlaubnis".. this has nothing to do with the discussion point of the topic whether you have to pay 60 months pension contribution..

But many GClers didnt have 60 months contribution (because of unemployment in between and so) although they had 5 years of "Erlaubnis" and therefore §104 was interesting for them.. surely law §104 DOES NOT say anything about the people who try to have ABH count their student years for the NE application..

Regards,

Lacrima

because to me:
AE =5 years is almost the same as RV 60 months.

"because to me:
AE =5 years is almost the same as RV 60 months."

I see.. that was the main reason of the whole confusion..

Regards,

Lacrima