Hello all,

I have been living in germany since July2005. I came here as a PhD student (in biology) and I finished my PhD in March2009. Officially this is a half time time job but I get the normal salary with all the deductions for insurance, tax, social insurance, arbeitlosengeld etc...

From April2009 onwards I am working as a post doctoral fellow in University. This is a full time job and I pay a huge tax and other insurance stuffs. The salary altogether comes around 3500 euro per month , without tax.

The problem is : My job contract ends in this April 2010. I dont have a visa after April. I am searching for other jobs in germany and applying. So far I didnt get any position and I applied to the arbeitlosengeld. But the arbeitsamt say I have to show a valid visa from May inorder to get the arbeitlosengeld.

Then I went to the foreign office in Bonn to ask about the ' Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte ', but the person in the office was not so friendly and he doesnt know anything regarding phd or postdoc ( or may be he just acts like that). He didnt consider the word 'Hochqualifizierte', and said I can apply to Niederlassungserlaubnis only after July2010.

But I need a visa to show the arbeitsamt. Another surprising thing that I noted is, in germany people dont want to give a job to me beacuse I am 'overqualified'..I am really in a miserable condition. Is there anybody who can suggest how can I get a working visa..any possibilities..? I am thinking of meeting a lawyer who deals with this issues.. My Vis is running out of time..Please help....


Sumanair

@sumanair
First try to get BE, Beshäftigung erlaubt. then u can get ALG1 also.
if the auslaberbehörde people create problem to give u further visa u can take help of Lawyer.As you are entitled to get ALG you cannot be denied visa atleast for that much time.
Some of us survived through this situation.
All the best
GG

@Sumanair

Yes! Definitely you are eligible for "Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte: §19 Abs. 2 Nr. 1 AufenthG", It does not have any time limitation, even someone who just freshly arrive from India can claim it. You just need to prove that you are Highly Qualified and the best way to do it is to get a recommendation letter from your current boss, praising your work and clearly mentioning how important you are for Germany.

If you are willing to spend some money than I suggest to higher trust7 lawyers, as they are very experienced in these cases. But file your NE application as soon as possible, as you can stay in Germany until you receive the final decision from your ABH.

Good luck and keep us posted.

There used to be a requirement of 63K euro Brutto salary for this NE, did it recently change? If you earn 3500 Netto you should be ok, if it's Brutto it's not enough. Since you got Ph.D. in Germany you should get BE in your area of expertize automatically. I think after a year of full time work after graduation you get a full BE, check that so arbeitslosengeld problem will be handled. I think you'll have to get a new job with salary matching your current salary to get a NE §19, applying as a Hochqualifizierte without a new job won't look persuasive at all.

@mkorobeinik1

- the one you are referring to is "Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte: §19 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 AufenthG", yes you are right i.e. 65.000 euros brutto pro jahr is required.

- and the one I mentioned is "Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte: §19 Abs. 2 Nr. 1 AufenthG"....for this no need for high salary

so like I suggest hurry up and file your application...Good luck!!

P.S: come on India, baatain kum aur kam jiyada

Thank you all for the reply.

@garimagaurav, as far as I understood BE is for the freelance job.
But in my case, I can not work like that or I can not proove that
I will do some freelance job..then how is it possible. any idea?

@Raj2009,as I dont have contract from the current employer after
april, then the recommendation letter from the boss is valid..do they accept it?
OR, the recommendation letter from the PhD boss is also ok ?

I will meet a lawyer this week and I guess I have to teach that guy about
my problem..any suggestions to handle a lawyer....

Suma

@Raj2009: Regarding §19 the keywords are "besonderen fachlichen Kenntnissen" and "Lehrpersonen in herausgehobener Funktion oder wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiter in herausgehobener Funktion". Earlier in NRW at a university one had to be either a sole grant recepient from a source outside of university or a project leader to be eligible for this type of NE. That's not stated directly in the law but was stated in some internal directives for Ausländeramts in NRW. I was in a similar position as a topic starter - post doc contract running out after 4 years of work and could not use this paragraph, maybe it's different now or Bundesland dependent.

@sumanair: you are wrong about BE, it's applicable to everyone who wants to work in Germany. It's best that you research this forum and www.info4alien.de to prepare yourself for a meeting with a lawyer otherwise it may be a waste of money.
You mentioned the clerk said you can apply for NE after July 2010? There's a chance that your Ph. D. student visa was based on §18 during your Ph.D. studies and considered as an employment, that can help a lot.

Dear all,

Today I faced a very sad situation and that’s make me to thinking of leaving the country.

(One thing that I didn’t mention in my last post that my husband is also working here as Postdoc. His visa also ends in April30. But his case is so complicated because he didn’t get his phd yet. But he submitted his thesis. The Bonn foreign office always treated him as a student and they gave him visa under paragraph 16 (the pure student visa) when he came to Bonn from another city 2 years ago. Doesn’t matter whether they get a salary higher than Phd salary and he pay a good amount of tax. They said’ you didn’t finish ur phd..and ur purpose of visit to germany is phd..blah blah..But the funny thing is, when he was working for his phd from another city, he got a visa with paragraph 18.......these are much complicated that’s why I didn’t mention in the beginning )

But he got a new contract from his lab, but it is till July2010. He will get another 2 yr contract after that. This 3 month contract is due to some funding agency stuff....

So last week I met a lawyer and he suggested to go to the foreign office with my husband. So that I can get a dependent visa. But I told him that in this dependent visa they will write ‘I am not allowed to work’ and with such a visa the arbeitsamt never pay for me. The lawyer said, they can give a visa without that quoting this and I must ask for that. If they don’t give such a visa, then he will involve in this case. And he said, we can think about getting the Niederlassung after that because it may take time some time.

So today we went to the ABH Bonn. It was the same guy sitting there. He is really arrogant person. I never see such an official in my life. Seems to be a ...cist.

At first he made comment that ‘do u expect me to speak English, no I don’t speak’, in English. I said, ‘but you can be kind, because my German is not so perfect. May be my interpretation will be wrong’. Okey, now the guy started speaking English (but he was the same one sitting there when went there last time, but that time he said, keine English..I must speak German. And he forced me to speak my ugly German.

And now started:
He: okeyyy..so u don’t have a visa after this month. Where is your next contract ?
Me: I don’t have job contract now but I will get one soon, but you can do now?.
He: well well..this is complicated..how can I give a visa with out a job contract..
Me: I would like to apply for the Neiderlassung, is it possible...
He: Neiderlassung.. (laughed in an ugly way), no no..u did ur studies here.

I showed my old salary sheet and current salary sheet.
He said: no no, this is studies..
I said: I have a para18 during all these time, not a student visa..
He: I don’t know..but I cant give..

Me: Okey, Okey..I need a visa with my husband.

He: I can give u a fictionbeshenigung for 3 months, then u find a job and come to me with a contract. Why u need dependent visa..

I said: I want to apply for the arbeitlosung geld, I can get a new job in the next 2 months..but until that period of time...

He: Arbeitlosung !!! (shouted), If you buy arbietlosung, then I will make you fly to India !!! Your country has to protect you.

I got angry and showed my salary sheets, the payment of all kind of insurance....and asked, whether I am insured in germany or not ? why I am paying all these money...

He don’t have answer...but said ’ all are paying that...’

Again we had several talks, and finally he gave me a fictionbesheinigung and an appointment to discuss the dependent visa. But I am sure that he wont give that one. If he give, then there will be the quote that I don’t work here.

I heard from some people that ABH in Bonn are the worst people and will come under the above category that mentioned in the beginning.

In Bonn, the Phd students always get a visa under para16, doesn’t matter whether they pay tax and insurance or not..

Now I am thinking to meet another lawyer, because I didn’t like the first one. Doesn’t seems to be efficient. Somebody said, there are trust7 lawyers. But where can I find them??

Now u guys tell, Why I am staying here?


Suma

In my opinion, Fiktionbescheinigung is all you could get in this case at the moment. Had to go through several of those myself. At least you can get the process of ALG I going and stay legally in Germany while looking for a job. Did you register at Arbeitsamt als Arbeitsuchende? In my case I was going back and forth (back and force would be a better expression ) between Ausläneramt and Arbeitsamt to buy time and get extensions. I'd use a dependent visa as a last resource.
Work on your German, if you've been here since 2005 and can't make yourself clear that gives a bad impression. Don't expect germans to speak english. You don't need to have a perfect German but you need to be sure that you and your conversational partner are on the same page.
Some clerks are jerks but it's because you let them treat yourself this way. Ignore their comments, get what you need from them - visa extensions and NE.
And, last but not least - you stay here because you still see it as a better option, otherwise you'd be gone long time back.

@ sumanair

I suggest you to change your apartment in another location, it could be near Bonn (another ABH). Sometimes that solves the problem.

Of course, try to improve bit German and have a job contract ASAP.

@sumanair

u can still get N.E. §19 for highly qualified researcher, there r 2 ways left:

1- try to call or write an email to the Abteilungsleiter and complain him about this arrogant beamter, usually such assholes have very nice and friendly bosses.

I just googled it and found the name and contact details of the Abteilungsleiter of Aussläberbehörde Boon, you can do the same or If you can forward your email contact, than I can also send it by mail.

2- hire an experienced lawyer e.g. ask detlef for trust7 lawyers or contact @vakalat, he is also very experienced.

Thanks Raj.
Here is my email, sumanair2000 (at)googlemail.com. Please send me those informations.

I really would like to contact his boss. I am also thinking to ask the help of humanrights people.
please also send the details of lawyer.

Suma

Raj2009 and mkorobeinik1 have given excellent pointers.

As Raj2009 pointed out a “Niederlassungerlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte” according to §19 Abs. 2 Nr. 1 AufenthG (scientists with special knowledge) does not require a minimum salary earning. Here, the foreign office has to be convinced that you you fall into this category, for example, by providing them with authoritative documents such as the ones mentioned by Raj2009.

Although you do not have to show a minimum salary earning, the law, as a general requirement, states that your “daily subsistence in Germany” must be ensured. The daily subsistence is usually guaranteed by a job. As your job contract is running out, the foreign office could therefore deny the settlement permit on the grounds that even an applicant for a “Niederlassungerlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte” has to show that he has a job offer allowing him or her to make ends meet in Germany.

You should, therefore, not exclusively rely on such an application but rather uphold your application for dependent visa. In this context the advice from mkorobeinik1 is central: German language skills. As has been discussed here, the law generally requires you to be able to speak simple German. There are exemptions from that language requirement (at the end of the linked post)

http://www.trust7.com/en/foren/integration/language_req_s_constitutional_ii

Generally speaking, if your spouse is allowed to work, so are you once you have a job offer.


contact@kanzlei-jain.de

@Vakalat
Thank you.

I can speak german,but not very fluently. I have an A2 certificate. At present I am doing a german course for beruf from VHS and this will be till July.

So I can dependent on my spouse until I get a new job. But the person in the ABH said that he can give a dependent visa but it will be stated that 'I am not allowed to work with this visa'. Is there any way to avoid this ? Is it according to the law ?
Because I am not a new one coming from another country to join with the spouse.

Inorder to apply for the arbeitlosengeld, I need a visa with out that paragraph.
Is that possible ?

I also wanted to ask that with fiktionbeschenigung, can I apply for this money ?

One more,whether I am allowed to get a BE ?
I heard that one will get a visa if they are doing a german course..I am not sure..but any idea?

Please reply.

Sumanair

I thought that with a PhD one can get NE under Article 19 right from the start. Is this not the case anymore?