Hey Friends,

Is there anyone who come under the normal catagory got NE ? I mean those who are not treated as high qualified? My visa expires in September. I am still not sure whether to apply for NE or a simple visa extension. I guess NE has a problem abt the first 3 months being not counted. A friend of mine was denied NE b'cauz of this.

Regards
Fais

Hi Fais

My visa expires in December 2005 and I am not in the 84k category. I asked last friday (06/05/2005) at the ABH in Stuttgart. The lady said, that I can apply for NE only after the 60 months of "Rentenbeitrag". She adviced me to apply first for an extension in November 2005 and in 2006 I can apply for the NE. Legally seen, she is right, the law sais to, that only after the 60 month lived and worked in Germany, you are entitled to apply for NE. Try to speek Deutsch with the ABH officers. This helps a lot.

regards,
vbk

60 Renten are not needed for those who came before 2005:

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#104

(2) Bei Ausländern, die vor dem 1. Januar 2005 im Besitz einer Aufenthaltserlaubnis oder Aufenthaltsbefugnis sind, ... § 9 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 und 8 findet keine Anwendung.



So we only need 5 years in D but not 60 Renten.

@DvD

Hi DvD,

Thank you for the corrections. You are right the 5 years are sufficient.

@faisalm
Do not forget, german language knowledges is also needed.

regards,
vbk

@vbk
Does this mean that you can't make your NE application between Oct.-Dec. 2005?

I think this is what we have been discussing in this forum since so many months that at least the application can be made 3 months before the expiry of your 5 years term. But now the lady told you that you can't even apply before the end of your term. Did you try to clarify this thing with her?

Also some GC's were told to come for NE applications during the 3 months period before the expiry of their 5 year term(in other cities). But now this new statement from Stuttgart Beamtrin is contradictory to what people have been told in other cities.

Soni

@nsoni

Hi Soni,

I am sorry, I was not specific enough.
I started with GC in Ianuary 2001.
I asked the ABH-Lady how can I apply for NE starting in this summer (august). She said, that if I am applying in the summer, I wont get the NE, just an extension of my Aufenthaltserlaubnis because I dont have the 5 years (see DvD's response above) fullfilled and so I have to apply early next year for the NE.
The earliest start this year for applying for NE, she said, would be in my case October/December, because my Aufenthaltserlaubnis ends in 31 December 2005. She also said, that in this case I will get a temporary extension of my visa if needed (3 month), till my case is processed. Another remark of her was, that if I am not presenting myself at the ABH before this 3 month are over (Oct-Dec 2005), I will get contacted by them.
So there are two possibilities: either I am applying for an extension this summer and for the NE early next year, or I wait till November/December 2005 and I apply directly for the NE.
Sorry for the inconveniences. I am in the same boat. I know that this theme is really delicate and strongly discussed in this forum.

regards,
vbk

i guess i am also going to follow the same track..first apply for an extension and then apply for NE. I guess thats OK..

@vbk
Thats OK. Now from your descriptive message everything is clear otheriwse I was going to get headache soon
All is good that ends good(ofcourse on time)

@Dvd, @lacrima, @vbk, @nobody, @mk and all.......
I have following questions:
1) Will there be any advantage in applying for an extension of Visa now and then applying for the NE later?
2) Isn't is better to apply for NE at first?
3) What if there comes a problem in NE(or application process takes longer than 3 months) and you don't get it before end of 5 years? Will AB give the extension of Visa by themself(till you get NE) or in that case too we have to apply for that ourself?
4) If AB refuses to give NE to someone OR if somebody doesn't want to take NE then Can the Arbeitgeber apply for normal 1 or 2 years Work Permit(hence Visa) for that person?
5) If 4) is yes then can the same person apply for NE again after 6 or 7 years?

Soni

The only reason I am going to apply for an extension is because I guess I can't get NE now. They don't count the first 3 months in germany and hence you don't get pass the 5 years criteria. A friend of mine had the same experience in Munich. So now he got an extension to March next year and then he can apply for NE. I would also prefer to apply for NE but I guess thats not possible at the moment. Normally thats really stupid why they dont consider the first 3 months as for this 3 months visa, you need an arbeitserlaubnis. :-)) Well..you could argue this in ABH, but I am really not sure whether there is an official document to prove this.

Hi Soni,

did you know that in my wife's dialect and in the most spoken language in my country, your name means "Shame"?

Ok, let's get back to your questions
"1) Will there be any advantage in applying for an extension of Visa now and then applying for the NE later?" it all depends on you, but I will go for a NE, if they say "only extension now and you got NE after" then it will depends on the why they will be saying that.
"2) Isn't is better to apply for NE at first?", at first, no, directly, yes
"3) What if there comes a problem in NE (or application process takes longer than 3 months) and you don't get it before end of 5 years? Will AB give the extension of Visa by themself (till you get NE) or in that case too we have to apply for that ourself?", the process shouldn't take more than 2 months normally, but in case your visa expire while the process is being held, then you have to let them know that so that they can extend it for a time, if not you will be here illegally.
"4) If AB refuses to give NE to someone OR if somebody doesn't want to take NE then Can the Arbeitgeber apply for normal 1 or 2 years Work Permit (hence Visa) for that person?" should be possible but I will really be curious to know why they did refuse it if the person fills the criteria, but getting NE is first your decision, so if you refuse to take it, then you can ask for a simple extension of your visa.
"5) If 4) is yes then can the same person apply for NE again after 6 or 7 years?", minimum requirement in time is 5 years, but if you're at 7, then just wait 1 more year to ask for a German passport if you want, but you can still apply for a NE at that time. I know a friend of mine who got NE since 7 years now and never bothered to ask for the citizenship, so it's all on your choice.

@faisalm
I will tell you what in a couple of months, I will apply for that at the end of this week or start next week, I got some more papers to get from my company before doing that.

D.

@faisalm

I think it's just a way to get some money to make the world go round, why wouldn't they take in consideration the first 3 months? I think it depends on if you asked for the full visa after the 3 months or before. Let's take my case:
I got my visa at the German Embassy in Kinshasa on October 18th 2000, I took the plane the next day, so on October 19th and entered the German space on October 19th around 11 PM, it was a Friday. I wtnt on the Tuesday following to the Ausländerbehörde in Mainz for getting my 5 years and I did got them, not counting the 3 months but for the time I was there, October 22th, 2000 I think.
So why wouldn't they be counting my "3 months"?

And just in case, even if I entered here and got my stamp on October, they gave me a 5 years visa but until August, saying it will miss 2 months (September and October) to get a full 5 years.

I *will* apply for a NE already and I really don't want an extension. I will make the application myself and if they start making trouble around that, then they already know better.

D.

Hey DVD,

I am curious to know what results you get. But mine expires in September. So I guess I have to go to ABH latest July.

Regards
Fais

Hi DVD

yeah u r right. I am also going to apply for NE. IF they say they won't consider the first 3 months, then I need to know why. I had paid tax and my pension during this time.
I came here end of september 2001 and my visa is finishing in end of september 2005. So obviously these 3 months are included in my 5 year visa. By the way if the ABH says something like that can we show something to them which proves otherwise. I mean any official document?

Regards
Fais

Hi *,

As Mr. Detlef already explained most of the Questions related to GCs regarding NE.

Besides German language, one should be good in explaining the law and the rights.

Now, it depends upon GC itself to check, whether what is the situation with his ABH(bzgl. Stadt) and whether GC is in a position to handle it to finally get NE.

@Faisal,*:
As "Nobody" wrote, I too would recommend to apply now without wasting any time. Because its not a one day work with ABH. They would require first to send it to AB for internal check etc and then you would finally get an appointment to get NE.

- Take an appointment with ABH(saying that you want to get some info regarding GC/NE) Or EINFACH go there and meet with the Amt person.

Take the following documents, both in Original and in copy(atleast 2, if you have a family).

- Take all the Verträge(Berufliche) and it would be nice, if you can show an UnbefristetenVertrag

- German-Police Certificate for family(ask whether if its required for NE, because, it would also require 2 week time).

- 3 Last Payslips
- WohnungsVertrag + Wohnungsbescheinigung von Wohnungsverwalter

- Filled NE-forms
- Snaps (for each family members and yourself)

One thing is clear, ABH persons have lot of work. So, if you ask them, they will naturally give you some excuse. So, its better, if you go there and tell that why this is necessary for you to apply now.

But, please, be polite and dont get angry, if you hear something else

For example:

At ABH, you should stress that its your "Pflicht" to apply before your current Visa expires. You can show the following detail:

Was muss ich beachten, wenn mein befristeter Aufenthaltstitel abläuft?
Sie müssen dringend darauf achten, vor Ablauf der Geltungsdauer einen Antrag auf Verlängerung bzw. Erteilung eines anderen Aufenthaltstitels (beispielsweise einer Niederlassungserlaubnis) zu stellen. Wird der Antrag rechtzeitig, d.h. vor Ablauf der Befristung gestellt, gilt der weitere Aufenthalt bis zur Entscheidung der Ausländerbehörde mit allen sich daran anschließenden Wirkungen (z.B. der Berechtigung zur Ausübung einer Erwerbstätigkeit) als erlaubt. Eine verspätete Antragstellung (nach bereits abgelaufener Befristung) kann erhebliche Rechts­nachteile zur Folge haben. Ihr weiterer Aufenthalt wäre dann unerlaubt. Sie sind dann ausreise­pflichtig und dürften keiner Beschäftigung mehr nachgehen.

source:
http://www.bmi.bund.de/cln_006/nn_122688/Internet/Content/Themen/Zuwanderung/DatenundFakten/Fragen_20und_20Antworten_20zum_20Zuwanderungsgesetz.html#doc333266bodyText1


If you find it difficult to convince, then as I wrote earlier to take services of a lawyer offered by Mr. Detlef.


GC

@A.T

What if they reject my request for NE.? Can I apply for it again as soon as I finish my 5 year limit?

Regards

Faisal

First faisal, I'm NoBody, not DVD
Second, you wrote "I came here end of september 2001 and my visa is finishing in end of september 2005." that means your visa is of 4 years, not 5, please check that hence you won't get the NE.

Here are the papers I will submit for my NE application, some of them are relatively unnecessary but I will give them all that, so that they won't have to get headaches thinking of that.

They are all related to §9 of Ausländergesetz (remember that 3. and 8. are not necessary):
- For 1. I have attached a copy of my visa
- For 2. I have attached a copy of my actual working contract where my salary is notified
- For 4. I have attached a copy of my Polizeiführungszeugniss
- For 5. I have attached a copy of letter received from my employer stating that I'm still on the job and that my contract is unlimited
- For 6. I have attached a copy of my working permit (can be seen in the passport)
- For 7. I am willing to have a conversation either face to face or over the phone as according to §44a (1) 1., only spoken conversation is sufficient for me to prove my understanding of the German language. I have also attached a copy of a letter from my employer specifying that the language used in the company and with which I interact is effectively German.
- For 9. I have attached a copy of my rental contract and a copy of a letter from my landlord specifying that I do pay my rents regularly

D.

@Nobody

Sorry man..I wrote your name wrong...I am half asleep today :-)) . Again I made a mistake in the date I came in to germany. It's september 2000, not 2001.

Ok...I guess now I know what to do...

Do you think it would be good if I tell my employer to proceed with this. ? My boss told me if I want, they can take care of this for me.

Regards

Fais

@Nobody,
Thanks for the name explanation Frankly saying, I myself don't know the actual meaning of my name in number of languages which I speak or understand. But I remember one saying - a wise man once said "There is nothing in the name, what matters most is the person itself".

Now back to our business

@Nobody : What are the documents required to get Polizeiführungszeugniss? Do we get this from Police Station? Do we need to take prior appointment or just go there and request them for this OR apply for it in written to some specific address?

@Nobody : "I have also attached a copy of a letter from my employer specifying that the language used in the company and with which I interact is effectively German."
What if I am working in an International company and the operating language of that company is English. Is it still better to take such a letter from the Arbeitgeber OR in that case its better to drop this piece of paper. Is it mandatory to attach such letter along with application of NE?

Soni

@nsoni
in my country, a parent never gives a name to his kids "just like that" but only with a particular reason and the name always have a particular meaning, and the meaning is normally reflected by after in the kid.
Mine for example means "Only the God of Intelligence is my Judge" :-) and the same I did for my kids, I had their names in mind long before they were born and they do hold them.

Back to our business

For the Polizeiführungszeugniss, you have to go to the Einwohnermelderamt, if I got the name right and just request for it, it costs 25 euros and you got it by post some days after requesting for it (mine took 3 days but I waited 2 weeks when I was in Mainz) and they are actually only valid for a 3 months period, so I only request them when I need one, the before last was when I was getting employed by the GEZ as it is a requirement for them.

The letter for the language is just superfluous, but I took the liberty of adding it so they could know that I do speak German, as I never attended a German courses. That was my point in doing that.

D.

that with 3 months is just another false idea from Beamter that has keine Ahnung.


With visa extension:
in my case I tried to extend my visa when I aplied for Be but my ABH does not want to issue visa extension if the old visa is not over.
So in my case makes no sence to get extension in December because I can get NE at that time.

@NoBody : From your reply I am curious enough to know about your culture and traditions. You said......
"in my country, a parent never gives a name to his kids". Do you mean by family name or even Vorname also? Then how does a child gets his name then?
and later you said
"I had their names in mind long before they were born and they do hold them"
So If I read ur first sentence once again then next question is why did you choose name for your children then?

I hope I didn't ask anything wrong. Just curious to know.

Soni

@soni

You dont need to apply for Führungszeugnis as the Auslandsamt applies on your behalf and you dont pay for that. You also dont need a Duetsch certificate for your NE. Just speak from the beginning in einfach duetsch!! You just need to take 3 months salary slip, Mietvertrag and your Arbeitsvertrag. Normally, they have your contract copy. You dont need to give your Passport. NE will take 6 weeks if the officer is fast or else it would even end up in 3 months!! Ask for NE and dont ask for extension as even if your visa is expired, they try to put a stamp telling that your visa is valid and you have the right to work.

Regards
Rajesh

Thanks Rajesh,

Yours is the first hand information so I believe we don't need to bother about collecting any extra certificates to submit along with NE application.

Anyhow I will ask once(before applying) that what all papers do I need to bring along. As its better to be on safe side.
As you know that we now live in a different world than yours

Soni

@Faisal,

I dont think that there would be any rejection for having NE for a GC, provided, every requirement(as given in Law) is fulfilled.

Ofcourse, one can get later or might pursue it thru Lawyer, but this would only depend upon Stadt and the Luck.

So, its not time to get any Extension, rather to apply for NE.

I hope, this would encourage you to apply.

My case is the same and therefore have given you the advise, which I am following or as Nobody,Rajesh recommended.

Dont get afraid, you are in DE. The only thing matter is how you can convince the Amt(in) (aber in Deutsch :-)).

You can also print and take all the Law-paragraph, which are relevant to GC and try your luck.

Wish every GC good luck,

Bis NE :-)

@Soni

I wrote "a parent does not give a name 'just like that'" meaning, I wake up and found that "Sausage" will sound good as a name for my kid and then I give it to him.
One has to think about what he wants for his kids and according to that, the name is given.
In my country, the name of a kid is given according to 2 facts:
1. what you want for your kid or
2. a special event during the birth.

In my case, I mean, for my name, it's both of them, as my full name is D. W. I. N. (just the initials) and each of them has a meaning.
The name I'm normally called with and which is in my pass, contract, etc is the D. W. which means as I said before "Only the God of intelligence is my judge".
For the I which follows, it is by the fact that I had at birth a twin brother and the I is the name of the first born of twins.
For the N which comes at the end, it means in the language of my father "who is born by the feet and not the head" because I was born getting my feet before my head :-)

So for my kids, I gave them names according to what I desire for them in the future and for how I consider them, because as said, in my culture, the name has an impact to the personnality.
Reason why for example, the name of my first daughter means "Grace and intelligence are a wealth" (what I want for her) and her very last name means "miracle" because 10 years before her birth, a doctor declared that I would never had a child after a surgery that I had when I was kid.
And for my second daughter, her full name means "Who is like the God of intelligence, He is exalted".

Man, you're making me talking about my whole life there, let me stop here before I get too far, the thread was meant for NE

D.

@Nobody,

Yes, you are right regarding "Name".

- Its a first right of child which the Parent take care while naming their child.

But, it is worth mentioning to highlight here:

- Second right, which is too important, is to bring up their child with morality and education.


GC

@NoBody
Your (naming)theory is interesting one and I believe it must be holding lot of importance also in your culture/country.

Well, in my country also almost every name has a meaning. Only I don't know the meaning of the 2nd part of my name. You want to know the meaning of the 1st part of my name? Its "God of/for women" Thats the other point that nobody prayed me so far

Jokes apart - I believe in what A.T. also said in his 2nd point(and what I also mentioned in one of my previous messages).

Have a nice long weekend.
Soni

Hey guys,

My office called ABH to know abt the possibility of me getting NE. They said I can do it in December. I came to Germany in September 2000 and my visa is getting finished in September 2005. So clearly, as I have indicated before, they do not count the first 3 months in Germany. I have discussed this before here in the forum. Is there any law paragraph I can show them to prove that they are wrong? I could get an extension and then apply for NE. This is no problem. There is no point in arguing they have to consider the first 3 months as long as we don't have some law to prove them wrong.

Regards
Fais

@Faisal,

You seem to be right person(eligible for NE as with other GCs fulfilling requirements) but facing a wrong person.

If your company supports, you should take services of a lawyer as already advised by Mr. Detlef to apply now avoiding (Dezember).

You can only argue that the visa issued for 3 months, was issued based upon GreenCard regulations IT-ArgV(http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aav_it.html, also present ---> a copy of your Zustimmung von Arbeitsamt, which was required in the Embassy) and you were allowed to work within that period and your Pension contributions have been paid.

Also, use the BMI erklärung reference, which I presented in my last post.

All depends upon your luck.

Otherwise, you still have option to use Lawyer anytime.

Wish you best of luck.

GC

I went to KVR Munich to apply for unlimited residence permit as my visa expires in September 2005 and by september i complete 60 months.The beamter explained me that i need to
complete 60 months to apply for unlimited residence permit and he extended my visa till 2008 and asked me to apply in december 2005 or january 2006 for unlimited residence permit and in the visa extended it states i can do any job.I wanted to share my experience so you guys can share your thoughts about this.
cheers!

Hey Guys

From Chip's experience it seems that this is the common strategy followed by ABH. I personally know 3 different cases where they followed exactly the same method. They extend the visa so that we could apply for NE at a later time.

Regards
Fais

Hello leute,

1) Does the pension contribution from AB geld count in the 60 months pension rule? If so, does it affect a successful NE application?

2) Is it necessary to be working during the time of NE application? If so, what happens if you lose your job during the time of NE processing?

NE1 got clue?

regards,
babloo

Hi babloo,

60 months pension is not important for people who came before 1.Jan.2005. You should have finished 5 years at the time of NE application. I guess thats all..

Having a job is important I guess. But I am not sure what happnes if u loose ur job during NE processing.

Regards
Fais

>>>you should have finished 5 years at the time of NE application.<<<

do u mean living 5 years?

I am still waiting for others to reply.

thanks buddy for your comment.

1. Rentenbeiträge from ArbLosGeld count for 60 Renten limit
2. It is necessery to work when you aply for NE.
If you are arbeitslos you can get max 1 year Verlängerung.
If you lose job after aplying it does not matter as long as they do not find out.
If they do you get max 1 year visa.

>>>If you lose job after aplying it does not matter as long as they do not find out.
If they do you get max 1 year visa<<<

how is it possible to get that 1 year ext. after you have applied for NE and lost your job. The only possible case is when you have enough months left in your GC visa before you apply for NE. DVD, do you think I did understand your above statement?

DVD, your answers are kewl man.

Hi Freinds,

Has anybody got NE in BW?

What is the waiting period for security check?

Your help will be highly appriciated...

Thanks in advance.

regards,

goodfaith