Hello,

My name is Hardik. I would first briefly describe my background before explaining my problem.

I am an MS from Sweden and I did my master thesis in Germany (10 months duration). After that(4 months gap, when I was in India) I received a job and I did that from 10.10.2006 to 15.03.2009 in Germany. I changed my company in May 2008 and when I was in my probation period, November 2008, I was fired and rehired on temporary contract which ended on 15th March 2009.

When I went to AA for arbeitlosgeld and registration as an unemployed, they said "Because you have your work permit bounded to the only one employer, we can not register you as an unemployed and you cannot get Arbeitlos benifits.". They gave me a letter saying that and asked me to go to AB to get unbounded arbetiserlaubnis. When I went to AB for that, they said "When you will have a job, we will give you such work permit.". Moreover, they gave me a time limit till 27th April. If I dont have a job on 27th April, I have to leave Germany and go back to India.

Can anybody please suggest me what can be done in such case? It will be a great help to me. I am also thinking to have a lawer to file an application with all leagel clauses. So, if any lawer in the group from Duesseldorf, I am eager to here from you.

Thanks a lot in advance,
Hardik

Hi Hardik,

By 10.2008 u r finished with 2 yrs and u shld have got ur BE.. i.e. employer independent.. if u have that visa AA have to pay u arbeitlosegeld.. i donno y ausländerbehörde dint change ur visa to BE when u went there.. the people in ausländerbehörde r trying to take advantage of foriegners n asking them to return to their home country.. my question is "r we slaves?"

Ausländerbehörde will never give information to u unless u ask something.. even if u ask n if they r unaware they will say no.. so if u guys know an information for sure.. collect the documents n then go to office n they have to provide that.. this is a tip given by my colleague..

hardik go to foriegners office n ask them to change ur visa to BE..

Hi Karthik,

Thank you very much for the information. But, do you think they will change the status of my visa now as I am jobless? And I have already paid social insurance for then 2 years, so how long am I eligible to stay in Germany without job?

Thanks in advance.
Hardik

hi,

as i said they r taking advantage.. they r not fair .. u can go n ask for BE bcoz u have worked for more then 2 years in germany.. please wait for some more information from trust7 members .. they will surely help u out..

how long is ur visa valid? .. if they say no to BE u can stay here till ur last date of visa.. but u have to pay for health insurance if u stay here in germany..
i.e. without having BE
1. if u expect arbeitlosgeld u shld go back immediately..
2. if u say u dont want such benefits .. u can stay here till the last date of ur visa provided u pay ur medical insurance

TRUST7 Members please help him.. the info which i gave may be less.. please give this guy how to tackle this problem..

Hi Karthik,

Thank you very much for the information, it has been realy very useful and energatic.

Well, my visa expires on 15th May 2009. Moreover, my wife has come from India last month and her visa expires on 27th April. Hence, AB has given me a deadline till 27th April. I have to find a job by that time.

Currently I am not getting any money from Arbeitsamt. It means I do nto have any health insurance. So, could you please guide me on some cheapest health insurance as well?

Thank you very much.
Hardik

hi,

sorry.. i donno abt which insurance company is cheap.. u can ask ur present insurance company abt how much u shld pay..

i wish u good luck for ur job search.. hopefully u will find soon.. please fight for ur rights..

karthik.

It is a tricky situation. Technically speaking, though you have lost your job, in the eyes of the AA you are not “arbeitslos” as defined by the law. The reason is that your work permit limits you to a single employer and with that status you cannot take up any work, a requirement for being legally deemed to be "arbeitslos". To prove to the AA that your are available on the job market despite your current work permit status, I suggest getting the statement of the AA in writing that you will get the desired work permit on being offered a job. At this stage "arbeitslosengeld" will be of secondary concern to you.

The prime issue will be that the AA has now limited your residence permit as you have lost the job.

As a lawyer I suggest to go one step back while looking for a new job and reexamine what brought you to that point: You have been hired and rehired on a temporary contract. The rehiring on a temporary contract by the same employer for whom you worked previously needs special justification under the law. Check your contract whether a reason has been stated. The reason for having limited the contract in time, however, does not need to be explicitly stated; the reason simply has to be there. If you suspect there has been no good reason why the contract should have been limited in the first place, you can challenge the temporary basis of your contract in court, but will have to do so within three weeks after it formally ended.

Rechtsanwalt_Jain@yahoo.de

@Hardik,

Just ask AA where it is written that it is necessary to have a company independent visa to claim ALG. Dont be afraid and ask them to show the relevant section. ALG is just an insurance and is available for anyone who has paid into the system and cant be restricted on the basis of the company name in the visa.

In the mean time print out this particular section of the law
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/beschverfv.html#9

write a letter asking the ABH to remove the company name from your visa. Dont take no for an answer and if they refuse to take your written application ask them to give it in writing on which basis they are rejecting. If they said no, ask to speak with the boss. Be brave as you got nothing to lose. It would be a miracle if you can find a job in another 27 days.

in the present situation, i dont think health insurance is important. There are other big issues for you to deal with now.

hardik,

i was abt to give the link which raj gave u.. thanks raj..

the rule §9 says that u shld have paid insurance for last 2 years.. n u did that.. so u can ask Arbeitsamt to remove ur company name from ur visa.. do that.. n u r automatically eligible for ALG..

karthik.

Whatever duration of the visa you have, ask AA to change the current duration of the visa to B.E since you have worked here for more than 2 years.

If they say no, ask the reasons in writing.

Speak with confidence to the beamter/in. Whenever a no is given, ask the reasons for that.

The link provided by Raj clearly states that you should get BE.


Dont forget. Arbeitslosgeld is a type of insurance. You are just getting back from the system, in which you have paid into. Its simply your right.


All the best.

Dear All,

Thank you very much for your guidance and encouragment to fight for rights. I am going to do the way you all have suggested and will keep you updated about it.

I have one question for the step after. For example, the AB agrees to give me the BE till 15th May, which is an actual date of expiration of my current visa. What after that? In the current situtation, I dont expect to get the new job wihin 1 and a half months. Is there any leagal provision on basis of which I can exted my visa though I am fetching money from AGL?

Thanks.
Hardik

ALG I doesnot depend on the company WP.

I have friends who r recieving the ALG even though their WP is bound to aparticualr company.

SO just go and ask again the Arbeitsamt abt the exact rules. Or else take the help of a Lawyer. It might cost you abt 1000-2000, but worth it.

If u worked for 2 yrs then you r eligible for ALG upto 1 yr. As long as you get this ALG I you should be gien the WP.
This was said to me by my concerned person in the AB.

>>I have one question for the step after. For example, the AB agrees to give me the BE till 15th May, which is an actual date of expiration of my current visa. What after that?

If you have BE, it is easy for a company to hire you because you dont need permission from the AA there afterwards and you can join the company the day you sign the contract.

>>In the current situtation, I dont expect to get the new job wihin 1 and a half months. Is there any leagal provision on basis of which I can exted my visa though I am fetching money from AGL?

BE allows you to do anykind of job. So basically you can get a McJob and get your visa extended on the basis of holding a job. In the mean time you can still look for work in your branch. The only pitfall is that you will not get ALG if you have any work. But that is better isnt it.

Dear All,

Thank you very much for the all your help. My work is done partialy.

I went to AB with 24 months salary slips and got my BE done. But, ofcourse I used the help of a lawyer to make an application in German and with all required sections mentioned. Afterwards, AA also accepted my application for Arbeitlosengeld.

Now some more information is required. My work permit expires on 14th May. AB gave me BE, but they didnt extend the duration as I donot have a job. They also asked me to produce a job on 14th May to stay in Germany. During all this time I attended some interviews and I am hopefull from them. But, in the worst case if I dont get any job as my usual profession "Chip Design",

1) What are the legal clauses by which I can stay in Germany a bit longer (with BE)?

2) How to find other less skilled jobs to stay employed?

Thank you very much for your help.

Best regards,
Hardik

Dear Hardik,

Congrats on getting the BE! teh first hurdle.

Now the main thing, keep attending interviews for the technical job you qualify, on the other hand as Raj said you are eligible to take up any kind of work like in Mc or BurgerKing.
I would suggest use your contacts to get some kind of a work that would buy you time to get a job of your desire. May be find INDIAN resturants in your location or the plan you might have frequented earlier and explain the situation. I'm sure you would get some help.

All the very best!

We all at TRUST7 would pray for your wellbeing.

That you were declined ALG I since your visa is bounded to a certain company is crap, as stated above, ALG I is insurance based and serves as a basis to extend your staying in Germany if you express intention to find a job here. Double check your case with Arbeitsamt, they should have at least taken your application for ALG I. AFAIK you have to have 360 days contributions of Arbeitslossversicherung in the last 720 days to be eligible for ALG I, and you fulfill that. BE is good, congrats, but primary concern is ALG I approval that will buy you more time. As a last resourt sue the Arbeitsamt for wrong initial decision.

Hello Hardik
My husband is/was chip design engineer, now redundant from dec2008.If you wish we can exchange our problems and plan out some strategy for near future (with my husband).
As we also going through very bad time, visa expiring mid june2009

Hello Hardik,

Good to know that you will get the arbeitslos geld. I am also floating in the same situation, problem with me is that I lost my job after 16 months of service as Senior Design Engineer here in Germany( earlier I have worked in India around 6 years after my M.Tech.) , I am also IC Design Engineer. Will I also be able to get BE, as Dec. 2008 onwards I am on mini job with the same employer.

My visa is valid upto mid. june 2009, I am trying to search out job, but no response / or negative response till now. Some says may be they will hire in June or Sept.You can please share some companies name where I can try my luck.

I have a Son of 6 months here, my wife is working, but her Visa is linked to my Visa only.

Can anyone suggest how we can try to make the things positive in this situation ?

Mean how new Visa can be obtained ? As I am still searching for Job, and with current mini job, RV & KV are covered . Will it make me enable for BE ?

Please suggest the possibilities, I request to everyone in this forum.

With Regards,
Gaurav

@ Gaurav,

At first I would suggest you to start a new thread on the forum for your problem. As my thread is too old and when people would open the thread they will see my problme first and may ignore comments (your problem).

Ok, Now for BE you have to have paid taxes for minimum 24 months.

I am not an expert, but I think you should make your visa dependent on your wife's visa. As she has a job, at first you should make her visa independent. And then make your visa dependent on her. And as soon as one of you finishes 24 months of service in Germany, go to AB with 24 months salary slips. Get your BE done, though you have a permenent job and visa valid for next 10 years. BE is very helpful in unexpected situations.

Regarding job, it is the same senario yaar. Market situtation is very bad just find jobs at monster and stepstone and keep on appling. Our field is realy in trouble. You can call me on 017696487171 to discuss more.

And please dont forget to start a new thread on the forum to get a customized help. People are realy very helpful here.

Good luck.

Hi Hardik,

saw ur thread lately, experts' inputs were already given, just wanted to add my cent, you can do <400 euro job(mini job) and still can get ALG1. just check. as as long as u have job your BE status is secure.
tc,
milan

Dear All,

It's me again with some updates and more questions.

In my last meeting at AB, on 27th April, I had some decesions of my interview pending and one new interview call. So, they gave me a new dead line on 12th May. I have to go on 12th May and show them that I have a job or some decesion pending. Based on that they will extend my visa. Right now I have NO job and one decesion pending. If I receive a nagative answer from the pending one, then on 12th May I will have NO job and NO decesion pending. In such worst case, how long my visa can be extended? (For a short introduction - I have paid taxes for 29 months. I currently hold BE which expires on 14th May). I will highly appreciate if someone can send me some link to the legal section.

Thanks a lot for all your help. Honestly, the problem has given me many headaches since last several months and from only trust7 I have received authenticated information. Thanks a lot for being so nice.

Best regards,
Hardik

You're saying that you have BE, right?

Why don't you go and find any job, in a restaurant or anywhere and get your residence permit extended based on that?

That's the easiest solution in the short amount of time that you still have.

Hi AxEnNeSo,

Thanks for the information. Can you tell me how much minimum I have to earn to keep my work permit alive? Please consider that I also have my wife here.

Best regards,
Hardik

minijobs like 400 Euros will not help. What is important is that you can support you and your family without help from the govt. Lets say 500 Euros per head.

I cannot give you a number since I have no idea how they evaluate this, but logically it should be a job that can cover your rent and expenses(including your wife), 1500 to 2000 brutto maybe.

Hello Hardik
Little piece of information for you.
As I had gone to ABH some time back and asked what if my husband doesnot get a job by the expiry of visa.
They told me that there is something called Fiktionbescheinigung which they can issue assuming that you are highly qualified and there is possibility that you will find a job very soon.I think they give this for 2-3 months, not really sure.
Try to convince ABH them that you are highly qualified person and it is due to financial crisis world wide you are facing this problem.
You can tell them that you will be getting ALG 1 that is sufficient to run ur house.

Rest Best wishes
Garima and Gaurav
We are also sailing in same boat, trying to find solution.

Hardik,
What happened after 12th May?
Could you please update so that it might help others.
Padmaja

Hi Hardik,

Congrats, you have solved your problem regarding BE so far. I am in same situation right now, but i have visa until 30th September. I have also completed 31 months of job in Germany but i didn't go for BE, and unfortunately i lost my job last month. I was also thinking that, without job its not possible to change the visa to BE but as you did it, i am getting inspiration to go for ABH. Can you please give me the name and address(if possible also the phone number ) of the lawyer by whom you made you application for BE? It will help me a lot.

To all,

I am looking for a good lawyer around Krefeld/Dusseldorf to process my BE application.Can anybody help me to find a good lawyer near Krefeld or Dusseldorf area?


Thanks in advance and looking forward for your reply.

First of all Thanks to Hardik and Gaurav for sharing your problems.

And thanks to others for giving focus to tackle the problem.

@Hardik - wht's ur present situation? Have you got work in Germany?

The problem you had is my present situation. I was also to AA, they sent me to AB for WP etc. The main difference is my work duration in Germany is 16 months. Today I am without ALG and have got Fiktionsbescheinigung only for 2 months. Deadline - End of June 2009.

Does anyone know, if a foreigner worked here for 16 months and is without work then Can he be eligible for ALG?

@Pankaj
yes you are eligible for arbeitslossgeld.process your application fast by going to arbeitsamt.As far as I know who so ever has worked for 15 months is eligible for arbeitslossgeld.

By the way you are in which field?

Regards
Gaurav

Please note this
"mindestens 12 Monate während der letzten zwei Jahre Beiträge gezahlt worden sein"

So to claim Arbeitslosengeld one should be living here for minimum 2years during which one should have worked for minimum 12 months to be eligible.

Also if your Visa is bound to a employer and you don't have a BE then one is not eligible for Arbeitslosengeld.
If you currently have a job and worked here for 2years then get the BE but its not possible to get BE without having a job in hand.

@raj2001,

The rule you said is absolutely true.
But i know some people in germany who have been living from approximately 15-18 months and lost their job and still getting ALG.

I think it is upto authorities to decide about the rule ( i mean relaxation in rule).

>>So to claim Arbeitslosengeld one should be living here for minimum 2years during which one should have worked for minimum 12 months to be eligible.

Correction

In the last two years one should have "paid atleast 12 months" . Not that you should have "lived here for 24 months".

Regarding unemployment benefits there is an unfortunate catch 22 situation:

The catch 22 starts with loosing one´s job. Here one should take neither a dismissal or a contractual time limit in the job contract simply lying down especially if the latter has thus far been prolonged for a couple of times.


Though having lost one´s job after having contributed for at least 12 months to the fund, the Employment Agency (AA) still does not regard you as being “arbeitslos” as defined by the law - and thus eligible for payments - as long as the residence permit restricts you to a single employer.

This restriction is to be seen in the context of the procedure involved in getting a residence permit for gainful employment. Usually the AA has to give its permission before the AB (Foreigner´s Authority) is allowed to issue a residence permit for gainful employment. After two years of employment such a permission by the AA is no longer required and only discretionary. At the same time the former restrictions, e.g to a specific employer, no longer apply.

The third point to take into consideration is that the law actually expressly stipulates that a residence permit for gainful employment shall only be issued if a specific job offer is at hand.

This latter point has to be carefully taken into account in devising a strategy when dealing with the AB to resolve the issue.


Rechtsanwalt_Jain@yahoo.de

@Gaurav

"who so ever has worked for 15 months is eligible for arbeitslosegeld." (ALG)

Thanks for the info.
I was at AA and they did not permit me for ALG. Then I went AB to inform them about my job and asking abt ALG. They IMMEDIATELY gave me 2 months fiktionsbescheiningung to search a new job and said I am not eligible for ALG. That irritated me. Anyways.

What should I do now to get ALG?
I have worked as an employee for 16 months, worked as a student for 20 months.
I am in Germany since end of 2004.

For how many months does one get ALG if he/she has worked for 16 months?

"By the way you are in which field?"

I am in Procurement/Supply Chain Management field.

In which state u r?
Feel free to call me on - 017621327241

Thanx.....Best regs

Pankaj

@Pankaj
My number is 017654579854
I am in neidersaxony(Hanover)

With Regards
Gaurav

Dear All,

First of all my apologies to fail to write my updates here. But, I am happy that some people could reach me on my number. I received many inquiries on my mobile on this issue. So, I would summarize the whole process as under.

At first I am starting with some TIPs to all.

1) If you dont have BE and you already have worked and paid taxes in Germany for 24 months, go to AB with all 24 salary sleeps or Meldebescheinigung zur sozialversicherung for all 24 months. Ask the authority to give you BE.

2) Advice 1. is valid though you have a secured job. BE helps to get the your next job more easily and you are open to the Consulting companies. In germany there is a rule that cosulting companies like Wipro cannot hire a foreigner unless he/she has a BE.

3) Mostly when you will do 1. your authority will give you the following answer. "When you will find your next job, we will give you BE". In such case politely ask them in written that why they dont want to give you the BE even though you are legally eligible to get the BE. Most probably by hearing this they should process your BE, if not you can also ask them to meet the head of the department. Stay polite and firm, and each time ask the legal reason for the refusal. This will save your lawyer charges.

4) If nothing works till 3. depending upon your situation go to the lawyer (Auslaenderrechts Anwalter). Search in google for this term in your city and you will get enough of them. Contact them and present your case. Now step 4. is required depending on desperation only. As to talk to lawyer you will spend some 200 Euros. I had a total bill of 650 Euros. This amount is worth if you already have lost the job and step 3. is not working for you.

5) Once you get the ALG I, on the first page of the confirmation it is written that for how long you will get ALG I. For example for 360 days, 200 days etc. Now comes the most important point : YOU ARE ELIGIBLE TO GET YOUR VISA DONE TILL THE END OF THIS PERIOD.



MY STORY :

For me I did not do 1. and 2.. So after I lost my job, I started with 3. Honestly speaking, I did not ask them so much firmly so 3. did not work for me. So, I had to do 4. which coasted me 650 Euros. Fortunately 5. was done and now I have BE till April 2010. But I am still in the search of the job.

I am happy that many people contacted me on my mobile number who had the same problem. But, I must apologize again for failing to write this on the forum. I will be very sad if because if my carelessness someone had trouble processing his/her BE. Anyways, you are always welcome to call me on 017696487171 for more information.

Good luck,
Hardik

Good Luck Hardik.

Dear Hardik,

Nice to read that you pulled it through. I need to communicate with you in person. Could you give your mailid??

rajnlaxmi