I think I am not only one and will not be...maybe some others will meet same situation.
As it has been realized that soon he/she will get NE, he/she, can/will have 'kundigung' before getting NE.
If he/she get 'keine kundigung', 'THE' is making all possible hard and imposible so he/she can crasch and give out by self.
So after 4 years and 5-6 months it is all lost or?
As all are having and where had an expirience with the new law,it seem that althow, the law exist and it is clearly written "what if, and what else" the Beamters or Arbeitsamt, do not respect or have no clue about it and always refusing to do it.
In this forum was a lot of explenation about http://www.aufenth...tel.de/beschv.html#46
and http://www.aufenth....de/beschverfv.html#9 where is written that what it is....
Has anyone get something of it?
Dear friends.I have suggest an meeting somewhere that we can help each other and/or find some way for people like us and do something about it...
I suggest and written form and signe from all of us GC (as previous from IT-GREEN-CARD Assotiation was written and sent to Bundesministerium about the future of Green Cards ) that we do the same and ask what about this paragraps §46 and §9 and get an official explenation if it is valid for (ex)GC or not.
In this way,old game is still on.
Are you all sure that you will get NE (if you want) after 5 years?
If the system work over written forms and written answers, so lets make it and ask.
If you are all for, I suggest to make an official mail and send to the relevant office and clear it.

I have just made the written request to ABH for extension of my visa according to §46. The written response of the ABH was that the extension is "possible". However, they have also send me the form where my employer has to fill in again my Stellenbeschreibung and agrees that the Arbeitsagentur sends him the "Vermittlungsvorschläge",that is,the Bewerbungen of other people.

!!!!!

I have starded the procedure of obtaining written answer of ABH what should this mean actually and how is that, because according to §46 our work permits should be consired valid unlimited.

Until I receive new written answer from ABH I consider temporarily previous action as
a) disregarding of the §46
or
b) §46 cannot be applied to us.

Therefore I agree with max to send open letter once more to the respective federal institutions, CC respective institutions of "Länder", and request the clarification of the §46.

Please note that I am not "gekündigt" and I am also very sure that I will not be gekündigt by the company in next 1.5 years, due to my special knowledge and particular project that I am working on.

max that is very good idea.
we should write to Ministerium in order to clarify that EVERY GC-LER haS right to "Beschäftigung erlaubt" on 3 ways:
1. after 3 y working in D nach dem §9.1.1 BeschVerfV
2. after 4 y living in D nach dem §9.1.2 BeschVerfV
3. just by having GC-AE nach dem §46.2 BeschV (in this case it should be only for IT but without firma binding)

@Cedo and Max:

I suggested a couple of month ago the same (or similar) idea and I received only s..t

Some colleages just told me this won´t work and this thing was useless.

OK, accepted, bad idea. But I´m in just in case of any kind of action.

Some things happening now are simple silly. You kündigt your job, start in another company who trust you when you say "I´m GC I can work elsewhere" and after 4/6 weeks of suffering the tandem AA/ABH tell you "sorry men, we found a German in Flensburg who can make your job - you don´t receive our Zustimmung". Or another option, you start in the new company and what? you have to wait to the Zustimmung to receive the first salary? It´s supposed we must make a saving account just for the case of a change of job to survive the "´till Zustimmung time"?

This cannot be so simple. Behind a Visum sticked in a passport are lifes and people and families.

So, whatever we could make I´m in. If I change my job absolutely no doubt I´ll ask VPMK lawyers. I don´t want my destiny lies in the hands of a Beamter and their mood.

OK.

I can start by writting some letter on wochenende and then I will post it here, if you give me your email adresses I can also post it to you.

You could also do the same, so we have the chances to collect all different ideas without influencing each other.

Then we should collect ideas from everybody and synthesize one final letter for BMI, ZAV und Inneministerien der Länder, if we are in doubt that "Arbeitsmarktcheck" for old GCs is illegitimate, then one cc to BMJ would also be good, last but not the least - BMWA. Any further ideas ? CarbonCopy for chosen media (the ones for example who showed interest in makind interviews with GC) would also make sense, since there was relatively high interesse in media and public for GC programme. We should also locate particular reporters who did the reports and interviews then.

@Yo
When you first time had this suggestion we did not know anything about BeschverfV § 9.
Back than we were thinking only about BeschV §46.2 which is really written so funny that it can bring all kind of conclusions.
On the other side §9 BeschVerfV is as clear as the daylight and when we write about both §§ than we have much better chances.

@cedo
it is better to put letter text here in some new topic. that is much better and quicker than e-mails because everyone will see it and have chance to suggest changes.

Ok, I will put the text here. The forum is little bit narrow so it is not so good for long texts. But DvD you are right, it is more efficient. Here are the topics that i want to address.

Section 1. Current facts / laws / problems
1. Who is sending the letter and why.
2. Presentation of current applicable laws, and our interpretation of it
3. Expiriences in the ABH including the "evidence" that ABH and AA are doing AMC, in our opinion not according to laws. Somebody could be very kind and collect all relevant complaints from trust7 forum, there are more than enough here. It is much better if we attach these to the letter, than simply to reference to trust7. Also reference to drastically different expiriences at different ABH, and different rooms in one ABH (there is a case of Indian GC in Munich who get immediately new AE due to job change, without AMC, and even longer as previous GC, which is the only correct way, btw.). And then there is Dracus and other who must go through AMC.

Section 2. History / background
1. Invitation of german government for GCs
2. Previous practices of AA and ABH towards GreenCards, fantastic document for this is the "Werkstattbericht" from Marion Gebhardt, she works in AA München.
3. Copy Letters of the BMI to ABHs to stop kicking out the GCs out of the germany immediately when arbeitlos
4. Previous requests from other GC groups to german government to resolve our status finally

Any suggestions ?

Hi
I will try to help as much as I can, as well. Your proposal looks reasonable to me. After you prepare the first draft, we can work on it.

E-mail will not work. We have to send the petition in written form and per normal mail. Russian GCs did that once, I just can not find their web site anymore.

To whom should we send it ? maybe we should use the same adress/person that the Russian GCs used.

Can we demand a BMI internal letter to be sent to all ABHs in Germany which states clearly, old GCs can change job without AMC ?

Ok.. lets see how this goes..

Regards,

Lacrima

According to my own experience I have the followings to say:

As I discussed earlier, I tried to get a ohne Firmabindung stamp in my Passport with GC according to BeschV § 46.2. But the AA denied my request. I even submitted my long discussion about my right with some expert Beamters in info4alien forum. But AA does not want to care about those. The AA wants to treat all of the GC according to BeschV §27.

There is a chance to verify AMC if a GC is considered only according to BeschV §27. AA is not interested to provide us any right of BeschV $46.2 or IT-VO.
There is not any common treatment to GCs.

According to law we know that a GC has a right of unlimited ArE, and he has the right to change a company within IT without any problem. But this minimum right of GC does not work in practice. If it does not work, we will have many problems during job change. A company can not rely on us, company has to rely on Beamters. If we shout all the day "we have an unlimited work permit within IT", it's worthless. We have to have this in our passport.

We minimum should get a stamp in our passport only with IT, not with company name.

So we should try to get some instructions/letters from higher authority so that we are treated fairly according to the law.

So our goal is to get clear instructions for the followings as stated by DVD:

"EVERY GC-LER haS right to "Beschäftigung erlaubt" on 3 ways:
1. after 3 y working in D nach dem §9.1.1 BeschVerfV
2. after 4 y living in D nach dem §9.1.2 BeschVerfV
3. just by having GC-AE nach dem §46.2 BeschV (in this case it should be only for IT but without firma binding)

If anybody has other kind of problems, he can also provide his case and add the point in DVD's 3 point.

Ok..
I will also my self write an example and paste hier, than we find the best one and send 'nach Berlin'.
If this not pass away, I am ready to pay an lawer and to receive and 'official' state what is what.
I think that this question has to be resolved.
I simply can not stand the terror and angst that is comming 4-5 month before.
We are all 'supper' and 'the best' and companies can not give you the 'kundigung' ...but...
I have receive 4 times before althow I was best and the best and was working from morning till down.
No one can be sure in words...

Leute,
habt ihr das gelesen?
http://www.fluechtlingsinfo-berlin.de/fr/gesetzgebung/BMI_Hinweise_AufenthG_221204.pdf

search "IT-Fach"

1. Die einer IT-Fachkraft nach § 6 Abs. 2 der Verordnung über die Arbeitsgenehmigung
für hoch qualifizierte Fachkräfte der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie
erteilte befristete Arbeitserlaubnis gilt als unbefristete Zustimmung zum Aufenthaltstitel zur
Ausübung einer Beschäftigung fort (§ 46 Abs. 2 BeschV).



2. Für IT-Fachkräfte, die vor dem 1. Januar 2005 eine Arbeitserlaubnis erhalten haben
ist die Übergangsregelung des § 46 Abs. 2 BeschV zu beachten, wonach die diesen Personen
erteilte Arbeitserlaubnis als ___unbefristete Zustimmung zur Beschäftigung fort gilt___

3. Die Abschnitte 6 bis 8 der BeschV enthalten im Wesentlichen Verfahrensvorschriften für
die Bundesagentur für Arbeit. Die Bestimmungen des § 46 BeschV ___haben jedoch auch
Auswirkungen auf aufenthaltsrechtliche Fragen.___ § 46 Abs. 1 und 3 BeschV ergänzen die
Übergangsregelungen von § 105 hinsichtlich der erteilten Zusicherung der Erteilung einer
Arbeitsgenehmigung sowie arbeitsgenehmigungsfrei aufgenommenen Beschäftigungen.
___§ 46 Abs. 2 BeschV hebt die Befristung der Arbe itserlaubnis, die an IT-Fachkräfte nach der
IT-ArGV erteilt wurde, auf___.

Was wollt ihr noch?
Es lohnt sich normaleweise das auszudruecken und den Beamten in ABH vorzuzeigen...

Great Idea!!

In addition to points listed by DvD and mk:


"EVERY GC-LER haS right to "Beschäftigung erlaubt" on 3 ways:

1. after 3 y working in D nach dem §9.1.1 BeschVerfV
2. after 4 y living in D nach dem §9.1.2 BeschVerfV
3. just by having GC-AE nach dem §46.2 BeschV (in this case it should be only for IT but without firma binding)


4.For those GCs with 3+ Years in DE, they have the right to extend their Stay with a Visa Stamp
"Beschäftigung erlaubt" , if they choose to.

At the moment they REFUSE to extend and ask you to come 2 weeks before you complete 5 Years.


Another thing which i think the Beamters are not doing while doing the AMC is to check if a GC gets the same/Comparable Salary to the Germans with same skill-set working in the same Company.
They are actually supposed to be doing that too!!!!

So we must be careful with asking for NO AMC ,
i don't support the so-called Vorrangprüfung - that if there's a German with the same skills , then he should come first,
but i do support the Salary-check.
------------

By the way, i didn't know that IT-Fachkräfte from the New European Union seem to have their own Special Regulation:

Read this Link:
http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/vam/vamController/CMSConversation/anzeigeContent?navId=66028&rqc=70&ls=false&ut=0

The Link is broken:
so i tried to break it into sub parts:
but you have to type it as One String.

http://www.arbeitsagentur.de
/vam/vamController
/CMSConversation/anzeigeContent?
navId=66028&rqc=70&ls=false&ut=0

Quote from points listed above by Nemo:


"
46 Abs. 2 BeschV hebt die Befristung der Arbeitserlaubnis, die an IT-Fachkräfte nach der
IT-ArGV erteilt wurde, auf"


i ain't saying nothing after seeing that.

I do not have any problem with any check in Arbeitsagentur which includes check of my salary, diplomma - basically the same check which has been done 2000-2005 for most of the GCs who dared to seek a new job. This check was in my case always done in less than 30 minutes including waiting time at the counter by extraordinary polite and friendly people at Arbeitsagentur. The responsible beamte looked at the Stellenbeschreibung, Zusicherung, Diploma and employement contract, said several times Mmmh-Mmmh, copied the stuff and that was it. And since they have managed it before in 30 minutes, they cannot need 4-5 weeks now.

I have however big problem with receiving the papers indicating imminent AMC in which my company should receive offers for new employes from Arbeitsagentur, whereas I am still working with unlimited contract for this company under the same or higher salary conditions, and having the all necessary prerequirements to receive extension of the residence permit due to 46.2 BeschV.

The question of AMC for old GCs is not the question would GCs pass AMC check or not (I am sure that I would), it is the question of (self)respect, honor and legality.

@Cedimor
i though 46.2 Beschv has nothing to do with residence permit! u said u fullfil all pre-requisits for getting residence permit according to 46.2, which residence permit do u mean? NE?

credit should be given to luck inspite of self respect and legitimacy. when u happen to face a friendly officer at AA then its ur luck -

I do not want to get NE now since I do not fulfill the conditions for NE now, i want to get visa extension and "Beschäftigung Erlaubt", because if I do not get extension within next 1-2 months then I will not be able to do my job properly, since I will not be able to travel to other countries for which I need visa(s).
And the 46.2 should be guarantee for the extension.