Hi friends,

I am arbeitlose since 1st August. I resigned myself. I had worked as GC for 3.11 months. My visa also says that visa will be invalid with end of job. I know u all will say that I am stupid and i should not have resigned in these job situations or atleast I should have arranged for EG before resigning. There are reasons behind and also now there is no use crying over spilt milk.

I am in a situation which is not so interesting. I need some advice.

1. I asked lady in auslaenderbehoerde, and she told me that to change it to EG, I should have a job first. But according to http://www.aufenth...tel.de/beschv.html#46, it seems that even without job i can get EG. Please let me know if EG is possible without job.

2. My wife has EG and an unbefristet work contract. Will this be of any help as I assume that my stay here is not so correct as per my visa.

3. According to the visa, I should leave as soon my job ends. What possibilities do I have in my situation.

hmmmmm
waiting for some advice and suggestions

1.
§46 has nothing to do with EG.
§9 BeschVerfV is important but it is more for BE.
they could give you BE without job but they don't have to.
Did you make writen Antrag?
Did you got another visa?
If not you are illegal in D(unless you are Viking)?
2.
your wife visa is quite helpfull.
you can not get thrown out and you could do Antrag for BE if she is here more than 2 y(AFAIK).
3.
what visa do you have now?
they can hardly send you home because you can:
- get visa dependant on wife (quite bad)
- get BE on wife (2 y)
- get BE on 3 y in D
- get BE for IT (§46.2)

Are you receiving ALG?

there is another thing to try:
Make Antrag auf EG and say you want to work selbständig.

Most important is to make written Antrag with law citation. Do not wait for them to find §§ for you. You could get BE many ways but they will not search for you. They are not working for you but for state.

Good idea in your case would be to take a lawyer for Antrag.

Thanks DvD,

After leaving my job, I had changed my city and so registered here new. I went to AB and this lady told me that my stay here is illelagl. Actually, I went to her for asking to give me something similar to my wife's visa. She told me that she can give me this only when I am connected to some arbeitsamt. But she was nice and so she told me that i should try to find some job and get back to her as soon as I get some job and then she will change my visa.

As she was liberal, so I also did'nt argued with her. I got no's from some companies as they cannot give job to GC and second reason was that they can consider me only if I have unlimited work permit.

1. I had not made any antrag. It was only verbal. Also I was not expecting that finding a new job will take so much time. No, I did not got another visa. Its the same with all limitations but it is not connected to any company. You are right, I am illegal here and this is what is worrying me. I want to get it changed before I get into any trouble.

2. My wife is here since more than 3 years and she has a job for more than 2.5 years. As written above, she also has EG. Can I not get EG. Is EG only possible for spouse. On BE, can I do any business not related to IT. Can I do business in name of my wife. I will be attending the workshop of trust7 but its little bit far. It will be nice if you can also give me some ideas.

3. I have a 5 years visa ending in sep 2006 but with a clause that it will become invalid with end of beschäftigung in IT. You wrote 3 possibilities for me to get BE and also you suggested that I should apply with law citations. Would it be enough to apply for "BE for IT" and citing "(§46.2)". Where can I get more information on law citations for these three possibilities.

I am not receiving ALG as I registered little late. but that was not a problem with arbeitsamt. they did not give much attention on my visa. they asked me to fill some forms and to give arbeitsbescheinigung. I have received it from my previous company. Now, I want to submit these after taking care of my visa.

What land are you from?
If you are not from visa free land than you are completely illegal here.
Than ABH should give you short job search visa at least. But it is worst option.

Search forum for Antrag auf Auflage Aufhebung.
All is there.

Look if you are not from visa free land you are in deep sh.t.

You can get out easily but looks like you do not know enough to do it.
Solution is to take VPMK lawyer.
They take lots of money for NE but you need only BE and that could be cheap.

Whole law you need is here:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/beschv.html#46

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/beschverfv.html#9

"I had not made any antrag. It was only verbal."

BIG MISTAKE!!

everything MUST be written! Specially these sensitive documents!

Next time you could meet a different person in ABH who is going to be not so "friendly" and you will have serious problems.

The solution was already said by DvD.

Be careful, don't play with fire!!! act NOW!

Good luck,

Alex

@DvD

i am not from a visa free land.

This lady had asked me if I am searching for job and if I have some proof. So I gave her the printout of e-mails as a proof that I am waiting for reply from employers. She told me that she will put it in my files.

Since she was liberal and nice, I will try first to talk to her again and if things don't move in right direction then i will get to VPMK lawyers.

I have gone through your posts about Antrag auf Auflage Aufhebung and other links. I have understood many things. I know that its difficult to deal with these beamters as i have experienced it many times, when trying to change my wife's visa, but having previous knowledge of subject helps a lot. I will try to get out of this situation. Time is not going very good with me but I have to get out of it.

only thing confusing was that she said that i should first have job. i want to ask her to change my visa in my current situation so that I can further plan to do some business or may be study.

Do you think getting into university will help. After 4 years of stay and more than 3 years of work as GC, now joining a university for MSc., will it be a good move or can it be a problem for getting PR later.

You said I can get out of it easily. I also think so. Only right approach will help. I know the lady and can explain her if I know more. Can you show me some direction as to how can I get out of this situation.

@alex:
you r right that its a big mistake. situations were bit relaxed and i did not wanted to creat unnecessary ripples. in one instance, dealing with customs officer, they called police and informed about my visa. police came and got suspicious and they invited me to police station :-) of stuttgart. they then called ABH/AA and clarified about my visa. After 20 min the boss of that police station came out and told me that I can go and everything is fine. later, after some time i went to AB and they were also cooperative. i was expecting to get a job soon but somehow it has taken long. Now i am getting uneasy about my visa and want to get out of this situation. I want to approach AB with all information.

As I have written, i need some directions to get out of this. I am sure, I will get out of this, with ease of with difficulty.

Any idea about joining university in such situations. I have already applied and waiting for reply. If not job then lets do some study.

Studium is nice thing but DO NOT MENTION IT AT THE ABH.
If you say that they will give you studenten visa and than you can forget BE or EG or NE.
after studium you would have to start 5 years from 0.

you made EG for your wife. Why don't you do it now the same way for you.
If she can get it opposite must go too. You should also get it.

If your wife did it in 2004 than law was different but something similar exist now too.

YOU HAVE TO REACH BE OR EG FIRST BECAUSE NOBODY WILL GIVE YOU JOB WITHOUT IT.

you could even get BE after 4 years just living in D if you never worked before.
explain that to beamtin. she can not ask you to have job for that case
explain also that everybody asks for unlimited WP (BE or EG) so you can not possibly find job without it.


DO IT QUICK, QUICK, QUICK BECAUSE YOU ARE COMPLETELY ILLEGAL IN D.
IF POLICE FINDS YOU YOU COULD BE ESCORTED TO PRISON AND THEN TO AIRPORT THE SAME DAY.

hi DvD

i wrote just before your message above my encounter with police.

i read in these forums that for PR we need 5 years of aufenthalt and study time is divided by half for the purpose of PR. so if I have 4years and 4 months of GC residence and 16 months of study. this should complete 5 years for the requirement of PR.

I made EG for my wife before new laws became effective. Wife can get EG but I think it is not true for opposite. May be I should first become dependant on her and then maybe somehow it works. its complex.

right now i want to ask them that they give me EG and remove all other limitations so that I am free to become selbstandig or to do study.

When they remove all limitations and give just BE, I think in this case we should be able to do study. my visa now says no studium allowed. if they remove, that means I can study. then later in 2006 I can go to them and tell them to extendt. What do u say.

Do I get this form for Auflage Aufhebung from AB or its also on net.

in case you have something which you want to send me, my id is christoph at cvmx dot com

you said i can get out of it easily. this line boosts my tempo. If I get yes from university then my study starts from January onwards, for next 16 months. What do you say. shall i drop the idea of study. I am little bit fed up by applying and getting a reply of no with no reasons. Additionally, they write that your qualification are good but you dont suit our requirement. How can HR people decide about my technical suitability without interviewing me. Strange!

I want to get PR also. Now I want to take all right steps so that I get PR. Sitting at home is making me depressed. Study seems to be a good idea only if it does not comes in-my-way of getting PR.

Again, my id is christoph at cvmx dot com , in case anybody wants to send me supporting documents.

Study is nice but it will not help you to get BE or NE IN ANY WAY. IT CAN ONLY MAKE THINGS WORSE!

BEST WAY is go for EG according to 4 y in D.
read carefully law:

§ 9 Beschäftigung bei Vorbeschäftigungszeiten oder längerfristigem Voraufenthalt
(1) Die Zustimmung zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung kann ohne Prüfung nach § 39 Abs. 2 Satz 1 Nr. 1 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes Ausländern erteilt werden, die eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis besitzen und

1. drei Jahre rechtmäßig eine versicherungspflichtige Beschäftigung im Bundesgebiet ausgeübt haben oder
2. sich seit vier Jahren im Bundesgebiet ununterbrochen erlaubt oder geduldet aufhalten; Unterbrechungszeiten werden entsprechend § 51 Abs. 1 Nr. 7 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes berücksichtigt.


you can do 1. and 2. and for 2. it should be obvious that no job is needed.
beside if the Beamtin is nice try to say her that everybody says to you:
"Your qualifications are fine and we could employ you right away, only if you would have valid unlimited work permit."

I mean you are like criminal. no work permit, no visum. who would employ you? TELL HER THAT BUT BE NICE.

Hi DvD,

I wrote to ABH citing the law §9 and § 42.

I got this reply from ABH
**************************************
bezüglich Ihrer Anfrage habe ich mich nochmals mit der Agentur für Arbeit in Karlsruhe in Verbindung gesetzt.
Ich werde heute noch die Anfrage gemäß § 9 BeschVerfV bei der Arbeitsagentur machen. Diese wird dann mit aller Wahrscheinlichkeit von Ihnen einen Versicherungsverlauf anfordern. Die Zustimmung dürfte dann eine reine Formsache sein. Sobald mir die Antwort von der Agentur für Arbeit vorliegt, bestelle ich Sie ein, damit wir die Auflage in Ihrem Reisepass ändern können.
**************************************

What can you make out from this reply. What is this Versicherungsverlauf. Any idea?

Hi Viking

Just go here:

https://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung-bund.de/nn_40178/SiteGlobals/Forms/Kontoinformation/KontoinformationtForm,templateId=processForm,https=1.html

Fill in you social security number, mark "Versicherungsverlauf" and a couple of days later you´ll receive per post the "Versicherungsverlauf" that is not more not less than a copy of all months you have paid Rente.

The man/woman is asking you this just to win some time and anticipating the steps of AA, really pollaid from his/her side

YO1
thanks,

its good as i can now arrange the Versicherungsverlauf by the time they do their work.

it looks like you are on the good way to get Be or Eg and get out of problems.
at least you will not be an outlaw any more.

Viking wrote:

> i read in these forums that for PR we need 5
> years of aufenthalt and study time is divided
> by half for the purpose of PR. so if I have
> 4years and 4 months of GC residence and 16
> months of study. this should complete 5 years
> for the requirement of PR

Anybody knows which (part of) laws (Gesetz) says that study time (Studiumszeit), half of the time, could be counted toward PR requirement?

that with half goes for BE or EG.

for PR some Beamter take whole Studium Zeit
and some nothing.
nothing is right according to BMI. law does not states clearly. Law only says 5 years Aufenthaltserlaubnis and Studium is not Aufenthaltserlaubnis. It is Aufenthaltsbewilligung

@viking
dont forget to tell us when you get that BE (or EG)
it will be nice to know you did not end up in jail

Hi DvD,

for sure. i will sulery tell about my experience. right now i am still waiting for the reply from ABH lady. tommorow or dayafter tommorow i will go to deutscherentenversicherung office to get versicherungsverlauf.

meanwhile i have contacted VPMK lawyers for consulting me on the subject of joining university. Now I have made up my mind to study and I want to do it, but I also dont want, that this study comes in between of PR :->

I will keep posting about my experiences.

Meanwhile, do you have any idea, can wife get PR after completing 5 years of stay, having job and having EG. If she can get PR then what kind of visa status can I have (considering that i am studying).

regarding jail :-) thanks for your concern, i wrote already in my last posts, that i already had encounter with police here - i found them to be nice..... if someone asks me, i would say germany is best, except these typical rules and regulations.

you were in contact with police?
you mean you were in jail?

no, i was not in jail. I mentioned early in this thread:
******************************************
in one instance, dealing with customs officer, they called police and informed about my visa. police came and got suspicious and they invited me to police station of stuttgart. they then called ABH/AA and clarified about my visa. After 20 min the boss of that police station came out and told me that I can go and everything is fine.
******************************************

I went to customs to collect some of my luggage and they called police because of the conditions on my visa "visa becomes invalid with end of job as IT professional". they gave me my luggage but only when police came. i told them that i didn't notice these conditions on my visa but i believe that i can stay here till my visa expires. then they took my passport and i had to follow their car to police station. they told me politely that we are not arresting you but we only want to clarify your status, as i was on this invalid visa for more than 1 month.

i dont know from which Amt they checked about visa conditions, but wheresoever, i only know that the Amter must have been good to tell them that i dont need to leave this land. I feel thankful to that Officer, other wise i could have been in trouble.

This in itself was a good experience.

@DvD

this is the answer from ABH. Now I will go on monday and tell you guys, what kind of visa I got

*******************************
Sehr geehrter Herr viking,

mir liegt inzwischen die Zustimmung der Agentur für Arbeit in Karlsruhe vor. Sie können nächste Woche während der Öffnungszeiten mit Ihrem Pass vorbeikommen, damit wir die Auflage ändern können.
*******************************

I had a talk with VPMK lawyers and they also suggested me the same that u had suggested. Now lets see what's next. toady i will sign the study contract.

@lacrima
i remember, u asked once about contract for study. Yes, there is contract for study also.

so viking now you are probably at ABH but when you get back let us know the results.

Hi DvD,

I came back from ABH and I will get my Passport back on Wednesday. The lady told me that she will remove all the einschränkung and will make my visa similar to my wife's visa, by putting "Erwerbstätigkeit Gestattet" on it.

I feel good, because staying on invalid visa for 4 months and then getting EG, without having a job is quite unusual.

I thank you for your suggestions and advice.

I would like to suggest others also that when they approach Beamters, they should try to have good strategy and be polite. Normally what I do is, when I want to put my point forward, instead of going there and talking to them, I either write myself a letter or if I feel that my deutsch is not enough then I take help of some german friend. I hand this letter to the Beamter with all the reasons and explainations about what I want from them. So not much conversation is required and this avoids misunderstandings, and they have to take some action on my letter.


You mentioned in one post about §104. Does it also apply to us or is it for some partcular category. What do you think, should I now try for this next step :-)

By the way I have not yet applied for ABL geld. Now I will do that. I am ABL since 1st August and just registered with AA around 15th Sep. Now I will apply with them with Arbeitsbescheinigung.

I will inform here on what happens on this end. If I would have to face the sperrzeit or will they give me money for all these months. I beleive it will again be interesting for others.

Wow!
that is really something. Eg without job.
You can consider your self lucky.
And I allready planned to visit you in jail.
Congrats.

§104 goes for you too. It is valid for all who had AE before 2005. But some ABH know nothing about §104.

what do you mean next steps?. NE?
It will be no problem for you. If wife has salary that is enough.
You can just do your Master(No word to ABH).
You will still have to wait until 5 years are almost over.

By next steps i ment NE. I thought that with 104 we don't need 5 years :-)

Yes, i am also planning the same. I will do masters and apply for ABLgeld.
lawyer from VPMK also told me the same thing. she told me that, if my wife has unbefristet work contract, then also i can get NE.

once agin thanks to you -<>-

It is ALG, not ABLgeld.

:-)

Finally on wednesday I got the visa. It is not exactly "Erwerbstätigkeit Gestattet" as I was expecting but following is written on my visa:

"Beschäftigung uneingeschränkt erlaubt. Selbständige Erwerbstätigkeit nicht erlaubt."

and Anmerkungen is "§ 18 AufenthG"

Beamtin told me that I cannot do business as I am not a permanent resident but I can do freelancing jobs on this.

@DvD
What do u have to say on this. I believe now I can study on this visa. I hope § 18 AufenthG does not stops me from doing anything.

Do you think that § 18 AufenthG is the right one. I mean she has not written §9 or §46.

@viking

...I believe now I can study on this visa. I hope § 18 AufenthG does not stops me from doing anything....

....isn't studying a selbständige erwerbstätigkeit? :-)

....isn't studying a selbständige erwerbstätigkeit?
-----
Erwerbstätigkeit = Gainful employment

hi Akshay,

I believe you were joking, right :-)
but if you were serious, then i want to tell u that erwerbstätigkeit is related to occupation and studying is not occupation

In connection to my question about doing study on this visa, i am concerned because, normally the Aufenthalt to a foreigner is allowed for some purpose like for work or study or for visiting etc.

On one hand they did not wrote on my visa that I cannot study (in my previous visa i was not allowed to study). On the other hand, what if §18 says that Aufenthalt is allowed "only" for work.