Hello Gents,
I would like to have some help?
I have been here in Germany as GC for the last 5 and half years. I had some work interruptions and paid only 44 months for pension. Early next year my Residence permit will expire and I would like to apply for NE, but until then I will have only 50 months paid for pension. My question is can I buy the required 10 months, i.e I pay for pension 10 months personally, any information about this.?
Another question is about my wife, she is now living for the last 5 years here and never worked, but as she raised 2 children she will get 3 years pension contribution for every child, this means that she will get 72 months pension contribution, then can she apply for NE? and if she got it will they give me NE as her spouse even without 60 months RV?!!
One more question, is the German language knowledge is a strict condition to get NE, because my German language is really bad (even after 5 years), I mean really bad??? is there any test or interview??
sorry for having this long text, but any help will be appreciated...thanks..alom

You don't need 60 months for NE. Take a look under section 104 (2).

Section 9 Settlement permit

(1) The settlement permit is an unlimited residence title. It entitles the holder to
pursue an economic activity, is not subject to any time limits or geographic restrictions and must not incorporate any subsidiary provisions. Section 47 remains unaffected.
(2) A foreigner shall be granted the settlement permit provided that
1. he or she has held a residence permit for five years,
2. his or her livelihood is secure,
3. he or she has paid compulsory or voluntary contributions into the statutory pension scheme for at least 60 months or furnishes evidence of an entitlement to comparable benefits from an insurance or pension scheme or from an insurance company; time off for the purposes of child care or nursing at home shall be duly taken into account,
4. he or she has not been sentenced to a term of youth custody or a prison term of at least six months or a fine of at least 180 daily rates due to an intentionally committed offence,
5. he or she is permitted to be in employment, insofar as he or she is in employment,
6. he or she is in possession of the other permits which are required for the purpose of the permanent pursuit of his or her economic activity,
7. he or she has an adequate knowledge of the German language,
8. he or she possesses a basic knowledge of the legal and social system and the way of life in the Federal territory and
9. he or she possesses sufficient living space for himself or herself and the members of his or her family forming part of his or her household.

Section 104 Transitional provisions

(1) Decisions on applications filed prior to 1 January 2005 for the granting of an unlimited residence permit or a right of unlimited residence shall be taken in accordance with the law applying up to this time. Section 101 (1) shall apply mutatis mutandis.
(2) In the case of foreigners who are in possession of a residence permit or a residence title for exceptional circumstances prior to 1 January 2005, for the purposes of the decision on the granting of a settlement permit it shall be sufficient with regard to such foreigners' knowledge of the language if they are able to communicate verbally in the German language at a basic level. Section 9 (2), sentence 1, nos. 3 and 8 shall not apply.

"is there any test or interview??"

No there wasn't any test.

Thanks colleagues for the answers, it looks promising, and I appreciate any more answers.
One more question about private health insurance, what should be the minimum gross salary to be able to have private insurance? thanks

bobo wrote:
You don't need 60 months for NE. Take a look under section 104 (2).

DvD was a strong defender of this case, however I personally never heard whether some GCler from us received the NE according to 104. Anybody else?

NoBody has got NE with 60 months in D but only 52 renten. But ABH did need some push from VPMK lawyers.

Small correction

NoBody has got NE with 60 months in D, not 60 but 58.
but only 52 renten, not really, 48.
But ABH did need some push from VPMK lawyers, I didn't need them for the NE, just for the EG.

D.

I am also in the similar situation. I am living in Germany for last 7 years. Initially I was student and now working for last 4 years (AE) and also want to apply for NE.

I agree that as per §104 one doesn't need 60 renten but still one should have 5 years of Aufenthaltserlaubnis (not aufenthalsbiwilligung or others).

"er seit fünf Jahren die Aufenthaltserlaubnis besitzt"

Please correct me if I am wrong.

"Please correct me if I am wrong"

You are not wrong.. and your situation is not similar.. having "Bewilligung" is quite different.. and quite disadvantageous for NE and Citizenship..

Regards,

Lacrima

having "Bewilligung" is quite different.. and quite disadvantageous for NE and Citizenship..

@Lacrima
Well, for the current NE, "Bewilligung" does not help. However for NE (Daueraufenthalt-EG) which I hear can be given in some States like NRW, it contributes 50%.
In case of Citzenship, "Bewilligung" time is fully counted except in the two States Bayern and BW (However in some BW areas it still counts)

I dont see the disadantage you're talking about.

@alom
If you currently have Aufenthaltserlabnis, and your german is good enough you better try Citzenship rather than Niederlassungserlaubnis. you can apply for the pass with 7 yrs incase you have done the Integrationkurs or even the 1 week Orientationkurs. or you can wait next year to fulfill the 8 yrs requirement.
check this out for more details on Germany Pass

http://www.einbuergerung.de/gesetz.pdf

Regards

myname

regarding Bewilligung it can happend that 2 people sitting in the same ABH office across the same table, count the Bewilligung time differently.

Meaning, you can try with some formal NE Antrag in written form and hope that they will count BeWill. Usually they have a litle bit more respect (and fear not to do something wrong) in case of written Antrag so it can happen that you get more than usual.

"I dont see the disadantage you're talking about"

Well, read your own explanation regarding "Bewilligung" and you will see the disadvantage I am talking about.. ;)

Regards,

Lacrima

DvD mentioned a very much valid point:

Usually they have a litle bit more respect (and fear not to do something wrong) in case of written Antrag


Its always the best thing to send them or handover a written Antrag. Orally they always say "No" or "Not possible"

@lacrima

dont confuse things here. In vicky`s case Bewilligung cannot be a disadvantage!!
He had Bewilligung first then got Aufenthalt. He is now 7 yrs in Germany. For such a case he can get Citzenship even though he has no NE. Yet Citzenship is far better than NE. He would get the Pass even before the GC who has stayed 5 yrs in Germany and later got NE qualifies for it. Funny, isnt it?? For that reason, you cannot see Bewilligung as a disadvantage!!!

Regards,

myname

"dont confuse things here. "


I guess you are the one who is confusing things here. Vicky didnt mention he/she wants to get the citizenship.


"In vicky`s case Bewilligung cannot be a disadvantage!!"


When he wants to get only NE, than it can be a disadvantage.


"He had Bewilligung first then got Aufenthalt. He is now 7 yrs in Germany. For such a case he can get Citzenship even though he has no NE. Yet Citzenship is far better than NE."


Hey.. do you think every foreigner wants to get German citizenship ?? that is a very false assumption.. I know a lot of foreigners even born here.. and dont think even about the german citizenship, as they dont want to lose their current citizenship..(as you know, it is a must to give up your current citizenship, if you get the German one..) capito ???


"For that reason, you cannot see Bewilligung as a disadvantage!!!"


Even for the citizenship, it IS a disadvantege, if he/she is in BW or Bayern..

What is your problem myname ? I am telling you a fact here.. There is no point in discussing the facts.. "Bewilligung is a disadvantageous status".. that is it.. it is a fact.. basta..

Regards,

Lacrima

@ lacrima

But you yourself said in one of your last posts that Bewilligung is quite disadvantageous both for NE and also for CITIZENSHIP..

"You are not wrong.. and your situation is not similar.. having "Bewilligung" is quite different.. and quite disadvantageous for NE and Citizenship.."

Although I didn't mention before but frankly speaking I would not mind getting citizenship, as it will make things much easier for me. Moreover it's not a must to give up your current citizenship, as for some countries you can even have dual citizenhsip. By the way, I'm not from Bayen or BW.

@ myname

You said that:

"you can apply for the pass with 7 yrs incase you have done the Integrationkurs or even the 1 week Orientationkurs."

As I haven't done any integaration course so can I apply for citizenship JUST by doing this 1 week of Orientationkurs?
I'm not sure about this.

So now coming back to NE: If I only have to ask about NE.. then should I ask ABH for NE-Daueraufenthalt-EG instead of normal NE, so that they will consider 50% of my Bewilligung period. (along with §104)

"However for NE (Daueraufenthalt-EG) which I hear can be given in some States like NRW, it contributes 50%."

Could someone please send me an official link about NE-Daueraufenthalt-EG, which I can show to ABH?

Thanks!

@Vicky
Ok.. good luck with your Citizenship application then..

But you will have to wait some "time" for the 50% counting of the Bewillungs times for the NE application, as it didnt become law yet..

The rest can be explained to you better by the I-know-it-better-than-you-and-stubborn-as-hell myname

Regards,

Lacrima

"you can apply for the pass with 7 yrs incase you have done the Integrationkurs or even the 1 week Orientationkurs."
No you have to pass the exam after your Integrationkurs.I think this is the 'Zertifikat Deutsch' exam.
As lacrima said 50% counting of the Bewillungs times for the NE application has not yet become a law.Except NRW I guess none of the states have applied it.
-metro

@Lacrima

This Forum is for helping each other through exchange of information. I have personally gained alot from it like many other GCs have. Im not potraying myself as a I-know-it-better-than-you-and-stubborn-as-hell like you called me. However, I would not let a fellow GC be mislead by your personal judgement of the law! If there is a possible solution why shoudnt Vicky try it out?

I agree the the NE-Daueraufenthalt-EG has not yet been enacted into law and therefore not applicable Bundesweit. However it would be better for Vicky to ask his ABH if they can give such a title rather than discouraging her/him because he/she had Bewilligung.

@Vicky.
About NE-Daueraufenthalt-EG incase you live in Hessen, send me your email I will send you some Info which you can use as a basis for inquiry at the ABH (I hope your German is Good enough)
If you stay in another State, check for general Info on the link below and then contact your ABH

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/stichwort/daueraufenthaltsrichtlinie.html

Kind Regards

myname

Thanks myname for the info!

I have found this link about D-EG on info4alien, which includes the discussion about Bewilligung period.

http://www.info4alien.de/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1141643304/5

Unfortunately my German is not very good to understand it all. So could someone please tell me if there is something useful concerning Bewilligung period for NE in this discussion?

Many thanks!

Unfortunately my German is not very good to understand it all.

never mind, isnt that one important eligibility to get either NE or Citizenship?

is can I buy the required 10 months,

no because BfA is a state institution and not a private company. but you don't have to pay 60 months for pension if you were here in Germany as GC for the last 5 and half years.

she will get 3 years pension contribution for every child, this means that she will get 72 months pension contribution,

3 x 12 = 36 or i miss something?

Its always the best thing to send them or handover a written Antrag. Orally they always say "No" or "Not possible"

it depends. if your case is clear and you do not have reasons to suspect that officials can make some "shit" in your case, better to go there and make everything without a written Antrag. Just because in a case of written application they are going to be much more cautious (written application is a proof in court of law !) and will not process your application instantly.

if your case is not trivial, the application MUST be made in written form and MUST be faxed as well (handover without witnesses geht nicht), just because in such a case it's somewhat likely that you won't get anything from them without courts of laws and courts of laws don't work without proofs (hint: if everything comes just to your words against words of officials, courts of laws can do nothing for you, because it's you who must prove that the application was made. therefore all officials in all countries - including Germany - do not like written applications and always try to insist that you have to submit your application personally and have to use their form which you can get only when you come to them ;) )

as you know, it is a must to give up your current citizenship, if you get the German one

not if you don't mention to them that you already have one, therefore people born here often have two citizenships. but if german officials will learn about second citizenship they can take german citizenship back

Surely one of the most important requirements for either NE or Citzenship is a good command of the German Language!!! For cases where the law is not yet in force (e.g The NE_Daueraufenthalt_EG), one needs to prepare for a tough Discussion with the Beamter at the ABH. Without knowing German, this can not be easy.

@Vicky
The link (http://www.info4alien.de/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1141643304/5)
shows an example of how one guy in Bayern got NE in which his Bewilligung time was counted. I can't translate the whole discussion but here the main points.

1. Firstly, he got a letter from BMI, telling him that the law was not passed by Parlament, however the Interior ministers made recommendations to the states on how to implement the EU-regulation and requestd him to inquire from his ABH.

2. He sent a letter to his ABH inquiring on the Implementation of the Regulation and asked whether he can make an Appliaction for the NE

3: His ABH replied saying that art.4 of the regulation is taken into account and that he should contact XYZ to arrange an appointment for his NE application.

4. He was then given a normal NE (Without Daueraunfenthalt EG) His Bewilligung time was considered. Among the documents,he submitted was evidence for payment of RV >=60 Months

I think you can see that its not an easy process but its worth trying.

Good Luck!!

@myname

Thanks a lot!

Yesterday I went to ABH and asked for NE-D-EG. First the beamter had no idea about this. But when I showed this to him & explained that according to it my bewillung time should also be considered; then he went to talk to his boss. Later, I was told that I'm right but this law has not yet been implemented in my state . He asked me to come back after a month or so and ask about it. But I'm not sure if they will have it implemented by then.

I'm wondering if I should ask Interior ministery about it... or to someone else?