@Prateek

Does this mean that her residence-permit is no longer valid...

Theoretically yes, but who said that you have to tell ABH about this?

Just ask your wife to take a flight to Brussels or Paris and after that once she is back in Germany there is no way of finding out how long she was away from germany.

She will have only one arrival stamp on her passport (either at Paris or Brussels), which doesn't prove anything.

Thanks Akshay.

She had left in Aug-2006 via Paris. So there is a stamp on her passport saying that she exited EU on Aug-2006. Now when she re-enters EU (unfortunately her ticket is via Frankfurt), they will see that stamp and know that she is re-entering after 6 months. Not really sure though

@Prateek

Are you really sure about that? I don't remember getting a stamp on my passport everytime I leave germany.

Not necessarily when you leave Germany...but they'll surely stamp the exit date at the last point of exiting EU.

Hi,

I think, dont trouble your wife, while she is coming back.

I would suggest that you get some official/proved document of reason of such a period of stay outside Germany. Like some sort of Pregnancy/Medical reason that Doctors avoid Flying within that period.

Now, with that document, you need to attest it thru your Foreign Ministry, Notar as well as Magistrate(To make it official) and then apply either thru your local Germany Embassy/Consulate(if you/yourself there) Or, therwise, you take that document and request Ausl.Amt to give you some paper, so that she may come back, with that evidence at the airport.

I think, this is a special permit, allowing one to stay more than 6 months outside Germany.

Hope, you will be able to convince the authorities in this regard.
A.T

@Prateek,

As far as my knowledge goes,

IF you have not de-registered your wife at the Rathaus, there should not be a problem. As the ABH only looks at the Anmeldung/Abmeldung.
Secondly does the officers at the port of entry know about all this rules. I guess not. Further if the port of entry is in EU but outside Germany, they will only look at the Visa stamp.

So you can freely get her back in but before the expiry of the VISA. THe ABH will not know abt the exit and entry as they hardly look about your trips.

I had a situation where my wife was deregisterd and this created a problem as i had to get a new VISA.

Regards
Savio

@Prateek

Savion is right, if you want a new visa then first your have to de-registered your wife and also change your income-tax class to one.

Plus, the new visa would take around 3-4 months :-)

Hi Prateek,

I am skeptical that the authorities would allow somebody after staying away from the country for more than 6 months. We just think that the Immigration officials dont record the date when you leave Germany. Let me tell my experience.

My wife was also in India 2 years back for the delivery of our child. But she managed to be back shortly before her 6 months stay was to expire.
During this time, I had to shift to a new city, and when I went to the AA to do the Anmeldung, they asked me for my wife's passport. When I said that she is in India, they immediately informed me that she could not stay for more than 6 months. I could have a peek on their screen, and to my surprise, they had the complete details not only of my wife but also of my parents visits, visa and their departure dates to India.

So the bottom line is everyone's complete info is stored in a central database and any one at the AA or the Police or the Customs could access it without any problems.

I would rather advise you to enquire at your locak German Consulate.

P.S.We also cross checked at the German Consulate in Delhi at that time and they informed us that a new visa has to be applied when someone crosses the maximum stay limit.

@chandra

I see a point in your story.

Did the AA know that your wife is already in India. If yes then why did they ask your Wifes Passport.

Secondly your parents visits are recorded as you had invited them to germany. So definitely when you applied for visa for your Parents you must have given your details.

If a Women goes outside germany for a child birth, then definitely you need to file a Visa for the new born. And at this time they would check if the mother of the child has a valid visa. And i guess in your case, your wife had deregistered in Germany. So in Short Deregistration creates a problem if you need to go to Native country for a short while. And the same thing happened in my case and i had to pay a price of waiting for 3 months to get the Visa for my Wife and Child.

Regards
Savio

chandra wrote:
So the bottom line is everyone's complete info is stored in a central database and any one at the AA or the Police or the Customs could access it without any problems.

Your information above is a very good example about that our flight infos and duration of our absences are traced by central database system, although almost none of us believe in it. We had discussed this stuff several months ago in another thread:
http://trust7.com/en/forums/help_needed/could_i_use_my_existing_residence_permit_aufenthg_18_for_entering_germany_and_search_new_job

It makes me sad that even NE owners here think that the police at Customs or Airports would never trace the flight data. Some of us here believe that the police don't trace because they don't stamp the passport. Wrong. As all of you know, all the police in the Airports have a computer in front of it and you will never know what he is doing there, although they don't stamp your passport. I strongly believe that the flight data of all of us are stored in a database, as I said in the thread in the prev link and as chandra said.

Especially NE'lers, don't feel so comfortably ;)

Klenze17.

I have also wondered about this, i know there are as a minimum two legal parts to a border crossing into Schengen space, one is compliance with Schengen legislation (http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/schengeneruebereinkommen.html)
which states the minimum procedures that immigration officals must follow at the border. There is also an IT system called the SIS-I (Schengen Information System http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Information_System), where data about persons and objects is stored, but no flight information is stored here, a new System called SIS-II is being developed which includes even more advanced functions. The second part could be additional national checks depending on each country. I have seen that in many EU airports most officers simply follow the guidelines, and in some they do some extra checks if something looks suspicious.

Flight data is recorded and stored in a database, all airlines publish this information to the United States, which assigns a risk score to each passenger. However, this data is supposed to be used only to fight international crime & terrorism. I don't know how compatible is the use of this information with German privacy law (Datenschutzgesetz), additionally such big databases will always contain spelling mistakes and corrupt data, and in many cases it is not possible to relate a name to an identity. Bus companies, trains, boats would also need similar systems, and it is much harder to control cars crossing the borders with the current visas and passports. In short, it is very unlikely that they use flight information at the border, as they could commit a serious mistake. What usually happens is that they check the last exit stamp, and according to the visa or residence permit, see if it has been overstayed or expired and then start asking questions.

However, this is changing as more countries issue biometric passports and visas, and as more advanced systems are put in place to screen people. For example, a new system will be set-up next year called the VIS (Visa Information System) which will store visa application information.

Links:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/airlines/story/0,,1962385,00.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/22/washington/22data.html?ex=1313899200&en=1885588287e2fbaa&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
http://www.euractiv.com/en/justice/central-eu-visa-system-hold-biometric-data/article-133939

aalvarez says:
I have also wondered about this, i know there are as a minimum two legal parts to a border crossing into Schengen space...

The things you mention here belong to EU regulations and Schengen Agreement.

However, the 6 month limit is stated by National Law (AufenthG §51 paragraph 7) and does not have to do with EU Regulations or Schengen Agreement (the law article above also conflicts with 2003/109/EC, but this is another story... ).

aalvarez says:
In short, it is very unlikely that they use flight information at the border,

I am afraid I am not in the same opinion. In order that Germany can implement AufenthG §51 paragraph 7, they must have a database to implement this law. And chandra's post clearly states that they do have such a database. Germany might have a national database implementation in this respect, which does not have to do with EU/Schengen stuff.

Klenze17.

Yes, one is compliance with SDÜ and the other one national checks. But the question is, how can they control this with a *national* database, if you can cross into other Schengen countries by car, train, bus and boat without leaving any record?

aalvarez asks:
...how can they control this with a *national* database, if you can cross into other Schengen countries by car, train, bus and boat without leaving any record?

Very important questions. I know what you mean. There is no border and thus there cannot be controls, but there is another side of the picture. They do have implicit controls in some ways.

The complete information traffic is traced in Germany for security reasons (ticket registrations, internet, flight data etc). There were discussions by the previous government, maybe you remember, discussions were whether such databases must be kept for one year.

Driving by car: At the borders the cars might be traced by a surveillance system communicating with a database.

Train, bus: Ticket information at least. When you go away, nobody will trace you, but in the trains and buses there are random checks at the borders. I experienced it once in Dutch border, although I had a German residence permit.

According to Schengen Agreement, say with your Germany residence permit you cannot stay in Spain longer than 3 months. If you still stay longer than 3 months, Schengen system becomes effective and you must have a residence permit in Spain. This forces you to contact German authorities. In other words, you have freedom of virtually max. 6 months wrt. AufenthG §51.7 but in practice max. 3 months in 1 Schengen country, totally 2 Schengen countries in series, each for which you stay 3 months.

The other stuff is the bank formalities in Germany. I was told once at my bank where my salary account was registered (Girokonto) that when a person in Germany does not get its bank statements at the automatons within 6 months then the bank is obliged to send it to you with a letter to your address registered in Germany. You must then receive this letter.

This is also effective for all people with a salary (no matter how, eg. including unemployment benefits) in Germany.

These ways are implicit, but they exist. As you see, I am quite pessimistic in these cases.

Klenze17.

Hi All

I am facing a similar situation, would you please give an update, whether wife can come back after 6 months with same VISA or took a new VISA?

Thanks
Sunny

Hi Sunny,

Any info with regard to your situation? I too have the same issue !

Thanks
Manoj

HI Manoj,

Your wife can travel back with same VISA, 

http://www.trust7.com/forum/-/message_boards/message/842537

Thanks
Sunny