Dear All,
What about the new law, if some one gets anual salary >63000 Euro can get NE?
How is it calculated, does it including urlaub and weinacht geld.

Thanks and regards-
ASM

"What about the new law, if some one gets anual salary >63000 Euro can get NE?"

There is no such law. It has been discussed some time ago among the German politicians, but it has not been a law, not even a law proposal. You will probably finish your 5 years and get NE anyway, before German politicians can decide on such a law.. ;)

Regards,

Lacrima

2. Permanent residence permit for highly qualified persons - §19 AufenthG

Scientists, university lecturers, specialists and leading managers with long professional experience, for example, will have the chance of getting the permanent residence permit immediately, if they do not need official support for integration.

The permanent residence permit is unlimited and includes the permission to work.

An example for someone who is highly qualified can be, that he/she earns the double of the amount which someone needs if he wants to get private insurance instead of the mandatory one.

This is around 95.000,- €

Good luck
Detlef

Well, I thought he was asking regarding this issue:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2214851,00.html?maca=en-rss-en-bus-1025-rdf
as he was mentioning a new law.

This 85 - 95K thing for NE has been around for some time.(I guess, it is in force since 1.1.2005)
But there was a political discussion recently to lower the salary limit to 63K to get an NE immediately.(See the link above) That political discussion led to nothing. That was my point in my previous post.

Regards,

Lacrima

Hi Detlef, a small correction: it is 85.500 € for 2007.

Proof.

The law for NE to the high skilled people is defined in AufenthG §19:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19

The minimum amount of annual gross income stated in this law is bound to Beitragsbemessungsgrenze (income limit) for health insurance:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsbemessungsgrenze

The law states that a scientist or high skilled person who is getting so much gross annual income that is double of this money can get NE from §19.

According to the table at Wikipedia, in 2007 the limit of annual gross income for health insurance is 42.750 €. To get NE wrt. AufenthG §19, you must earn an annual gross income of 85.500 €. In other words, your monthly gross salary must be min. 7.125 €.

Klenze17.

I just wonder...is there someone who get 7000 / 8000 € bruto per month?
I mean from the ex GC's, and if there is, what kind of job it is?

Hi again,

read this:

Achtung Verwechslungsgefahr!

Nicht verwechseln darf man die Versicherungspflichtgrenze und die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze. Seit 2003 sind sie von einander losgelöst zu betrachten.

Versicherungs-Pflichtgrenze Beitrags-Bemessungsgrenze
Mit der Versicherungspflichtgrenze gibt der Gesetzgeber vor, bis zu welcher Einkommens-Höhe brutto (derzeit 3.975,00 Euro monatlich / 47.700 Euro pro Jahr) ein Arbeitnehmer automatisch Mitglied in der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung (GKV) sein und bleiben muss.

Die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze legt fest, bis zu welchem Betrag vom Einkommen (derzeit 3.562,50 Euro monatlich / 42.750 Euro pro Jahr) Beiträge zur gesetzlichen Kranken- und Pflegeversicherung berechnet und abgeführt werden.

Die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze wurde zum 1. Januar 2006 von 42.300 auf 42.750 Euro angehoben und die Versicherungspflichtgrenze erhöhte sich von bislang 46.800 Euro auf 47.250 Euro.

Update 29.11.2006: Mittlerweile sind die voraussichtlichen Zahlen für die Versicherungspflichtgrenze 2007 bekannt gegeben geworden: 3.975,00 Euro im Monat bzw. 47.700 Euro im Jahr!

But at least... all depends ;-)

Have a nice weekend and good night
Detlef

"is there someone who get 7000 / 8000 € bruto per month?
I mean from the ex GC's, and if there is, what kind of job it is?"

@max

Usually experienced (SAP) Consultants and experienced Project Managers can earn that amount. If we think that, there are more that 10.000 (ex)-GClers, it is no surprise that some percentage of that people fall into this category.

Regards,

Lacrima

Hi,

I must point out again, that the paragraph 3 of the law [1] crystal clearly states that required minimum gross income is strictly bound to the double of the income limit of gesetzliche Krankenversicherung (state health insurance), which gives us 85.500 € for 2007 [2]:

3. Spezialisten und leitende Angestellte mit besonderer Berufserfahrung, die ein Gehalt in Höhe von mindestens dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung erhalten.

max asks:
is there someone who get 7000 / 8000 € bruto per month?

The annual gross income of 85.500 € does not mean that the monthly salary must be 85.500 € / 12 = 7.125 €. If the Weihnachtsgeld (Xmas bonus), Urlaubsgeld (vacation bonus) and AT-Zulage (extra bonus) are included in gross income, then min. required monthly salary reduces down below 7.000 € (probably to 6.000 € level). On the contrary, due to recession in Germany companies tend to reduce bonuses overall, which leads requirement of salaries of higher than 7000 € for NE wrt. AufenthG §19 [1].

max, I am in the same opinion. I strongly belivee there are very very few foreigns who got their salaries in this level.

Lacrima answers:
Usually experienced (SAP) Consultants and experienced Project Managers can earn that amount.

There are very few foreigns in Germany who has NE wrt. AufenthG §19. In 2005 only 500-700 people got this type of NE [3]. This law thus does not have a wide audience.

Lacrima says:
If we think that, there are more that 10.000 (ex)-GClers, it is no surprise that some percentage of that people fall into this category.

No, the actual number of unique GCs is far below than 10.000, it is around 8000. Some people got new GC permissions after having lost 1st job, which are counted in the numbers [4].

For GClers: The most extensive academic research about us is [5].


Klenze17.

--
[1] AufenthG §19, http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19
[2] Beitragsbemessungsgrenze, http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsbemessungsgrenze
[3] Evaluierungsbericht zum Zuwanderungsgesetz, http://www.bmi.bund.de/Internet/Content/Common/Anlagen/Themen/Auslaender__Fluechtlinge__Asyl/DatenundFakten/Evaluierungsbericht__zum__Zuwanderungsgesetz,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Evaluierungsbericht_zum_Zuwanderungsgesetz.pdf
[4] Die Green Card für IT-Fachkräfte:
Bestandsaufnahme und Entwicklungsperspektive
arbeitsmarktbedingter Zuwanderung in Deutschland, http://www.ub.uni-konstanz.de/kops/volltexte/2003/933/pdf/steinfatt.pdf, page 63.
[5] Greencard für Ausländische IT-Fachkräfte, http://www.kompetenznetze.de/Redaktion/Zentralredaktion/Literatur/medien/de/info__Greencard,property=pdf.pdf . This is the last academic research about Greencard. I am afraid there won't be any other. But there is a Turkish scientist now who is making her PhD dissertation on GCs (but for Turkish people, Lacrima knows her too, we both participated in this academic research).

Hi shahisandeep,

1. if somebody earns more than 85,500 euros annually he/she can apply for a NE straightway.

Yes and it must be done ASAP, because next year it might be another value, as stated in the law.

2.Is bonus also considered to be a part of gehalt.

Yes, any single cent stated in the pay slip is considered. Bonus (AT-Zulage), Vermögenswirksame Leistung, even the company bonus paid for Arbeitsweg (the way between home and work). Requirement is all the money which is in the pay slip and taxed. Principally every single cent stated in the pay slips are taxed, so just calculate your pay slips. In some companies pay slips include cumulative sum of brutto income throughout the year, which eases the computation.

if anybody has already tried getting it , i would appreciate information.

Apart from rajeshspg, we don't know anyone here in these forums who got NE w.r.t. AufenthG $19.

This law item has been effective only for 700-900 people in Germany ( http://www.bmi.bund.de/Internet/Content/Common/Anlagen/Themen/Auslaender__Fluechtlinge__Asyl/DatenundFakten/Evaluierungsbericht__zum__Zuwanderungsgesetz,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Evaluierungsbericht_zum_Zuwanderungsgesetz.pdf ). Unfortunately none of them is a member of these forums.

Rajesh's case is special because he is not working in private companies, instead in academic institutions.

If you can get it, please share your experiences in these forums so that everyone can have an idea what is possible, what is not.

Klenze17.

Hi,

I have requested for NE under this category, and beamter asked me to come back after 4 weeks. He wanted to check with his superior regarding this.

Best of luck with your application. Since it is written in the law you should get it.

Regards,
Rakhi

hi Rakhi,

I have requested for NE under this category, and beamter asked me to come back after 4 weeks. He wanted to check with his superior regarding this.

Best of luck with your application. Since it is written in the law you should get it.

There are a lot of requirements stated in the NE w.r.t AufenthG §19 ( http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19 ).

Rakhi, your application is very important for all foreigners in this forum, and it will be a leading case for this NE (except for Rajesh's case). Because that, may I ask you to write here with which qualifications you apply for this NE?

Patents? Publications? Management position?
Are you working in private company or state institution?

Klenze17.

Hi Klenze,

I have applied under income basis with special professional experience. I am working as IT freelancer. If I have to be a manager to be considered under this category, I may not get it. It would be great if someone can translate that complete paragraph of §19 into english.

Regards,
Rakhi

Hi,

you may find this website interesting:

http://www.zuwanderung.de/english/

http://www.zuwanderung.de/english/2_neues-gesetz-a-z/hochqualifizierte.html

I wish all of you a nice weekend!

Viele Grüße aus Berlin
Detlef :-)

Hi,
I am working as a self dependent and have a import/export business and annual income 90,000 to 120,000 Euro.
can I apply for NE?without integration course!!
my status is I am Indian and married with German.

Please give your suggestion.

Kumar

Detlef,

Thanks a lot for the information/links. The last statement of highly skilled worker definition says that "Highly qualified workers are typically executives or specialists in their field with a current annual salary in excess of €84,000".

So, if anyone who is specialist in their field and earns in excess of €84,000 should be eligible for NE. He need not be a scientist or manager. Anyway, I will wait for the first response from beamter regarding my case.

Regards,
Rakhi

Hi Rakhi,

So, if anyone who is specialist in their field and earns in excess of €84,000 should be eligible for NE. He need not be a scientist or manager.

This is true, but one small correction:

The annual brutto income stated in that text Detlef sent is outdated. In 2007 this has been 85.500 Euro. Please read my previous postings in this thread, in which I have given technical details how this amount is calculated.

This money is dependent upon tax calculations by German government and is adjusted on a year basis. That means, next year it can be 86.000 Euro. Since the inflation in developed countries like Germany is small, we do not expect big jumps in this amount.

Wow, a lot of freelancers here! Do you guys (Rakhi, shahisandeep) have IT background? Did you work in Germany for a while first? I don't expect too personal information a small historical background of yourself would be helpful for everyone here in the forums to get this kind of NE!

Klenze17.

Klenze,

Yes, I saw your earlier post regarding the required income for this year.

Well, I came here on GC in 2003. I got a freelance contract last year and changed my visa to restricted freelance visa(This was taken care by my agency). Recently I came to know about this NE as per §19 from this forum.Thanks a lot to the people sharing valuable information on this platform. I hope the beamter gives a positive response.

Regards,
Rakhi

Guys,

Bad news is that freelancers are not eligible under $19. So, I will not be getting NE. Anyway thanks a lot for all the help by providing useful information.

Regards,
Rakhi

Hi,
I am working as a selfdependent and have a import/export business and annual income 90,000 to 120,000 Euro.
can I get NE?without integration course!!
my status is I am Indian and married with German.

Please give your suggestion.

Kumar

The last changes in several laws are here:
http://www.lexisnexis.de/aktuelles/122701?or=14&ur=0&tt=gesetzgebung
(see the PDF link)

I got the visa under §19 on the salary basis. i am a telecom engineer.

Hello Shahisandeep,

Are you salaried employ or freelancer?

Regards,
Rakhi

Hello @havehope

i have 2 questions for you.

1. is your salary is >63000 including bonus and all?

2. will they ask about experience (how many years do you have exp in Germany).

thank you

Salary has to be more than (today its around 87000 Euros ).
you need to show last 3 months salary or a proof or a confirmantion from your compnay that you shall be getting this salayr by end of this year. or proof of last year brutto is also ok. In my case i could show them my last year brutto on the lohnstuer card and also my company gave me the bescheinung.

They need 4-6 weeks for the police check up and you get the NE. No questions asked about langiage or so,

havehope wrote:

Salary has to be more than (today its around 87000 Euros ).
you need to show last 3 months salary or a proof or a confirmantion from your compnay that you shall be getting this salayr by end of this year. or proof of last year brutto is also ok. In my case i could show them my last year brutto on the lohnstuer card and also my company gave me the bescheinung.

They need 4-6 weeks for the police check up and you get the NE. No questions asked about langiage or so,

Hi Havehope, you wrote that you got NE $19.

- Did you come to Germany with Greencard?
- Did you get "Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet" in between, before you got this NE?

I think you are a GCler because you said you are a telecom engineer.

Yesterday the parliamented changed the law. Now the minimum salary reduced to 63.000 Euro (correctly, 63.600 Euro for 2008, 64,800 for 2009).
http://www.bundestag.de/parlament/plenargeschehen/to/187.html#TOP27

This is the best law it could come ever. There is a big world crisis. The foreigners in Germany had the chance that the German elections are in 2009. Otherwise such kind of law would have never come.

Thanks klenze17.
Indeed good news if it works.

Has this rule(NE for 63000€) been already implemented ?

I need to renew my Aufenthaltstitel. So can I try NE as my Brutt is around 64000€ ?

Do you know what are the documents that may be required to get this ?

Your reply is very much helpful for many boarders.

Thanks,
Truster

Has this rule(NE for 63000€) been already implemented ?

Not yet. All the technical things of the law change has been done. Also, Bundestag (parliament) approved the law on 13.11.2008.

Now Bundesrat must approve it, councellor Angela Merkel and minister president Horst Köhler must sign the change. The law change will be published in Bundesgesetzblatt (official announcement paper from state) that the law becomes effetive.

Only after all these, the law will be effective in 01.01.2009.

I need to renew my Aufenthaltstitel. So can I try NE as my Brutt is around 64000€ ?

Yes, but only after the law becomes effective. It is after 01.01.2009. Before that, you cannot do anything.

Do you know what are the documents that may be required to get this ?

By the definition of this law, the local authorities will ask you to prove that you have this salary. I think the last 3 slips of previous year must be OK, but in general I think a prinout for your complete year from Finanzamt might be asked. They must see that you get this money.

Also, the law does not give everyone who has this salary or more. Your job specification must match "high-qualification". It is not stated in law explicitly, but it is mostly IT sector, electronics, computer and mechanical engineering.

Ex-Greencardlers would match. But we have no leading case for this, because we must wait until 01.01.2009 when first applications run.

havehope, a member in this forum was a telecom engineer and he has got his NE w.r.t. $19 but with 84.000 euro salary requirement. He is the only case we know. rajeshspg is an academician who has got NE $19 but as a scientist.

Technically all the GCs who still do not have NE must be able to get this NE, as long as they satisfy this salary requirement.

To whom who is interested: There is Verordnung for this law change: http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_090/nn_8694/SharedDocs/Drucksachen/2008/0801-900/840-08,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/840-08.pdf .

So everything is ready for this law change. Just wait until January.

In the coming day we will hear more about this in press. Just wait.

Klenze17.

Yesterday the Bundesrat has approved the law change.
http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_099/SharedDocs/Drucksachen/2008/0801-900/861-08,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/861-08.pdf

Only the signatures of Councellor Angela Merkel and minister president Horst Köhler required for the law change. Bundesgesetzblatt will publish the law.

I can say that now 84K requirement to get NE for Hochqualifizierte has been history. With this law change the minimum annual gross salary must be 63.600 Euro (2008), 64.800 Euro (2009) to get the NE.

Klenze17.

Unfortunately the Bundesrat refused the current law change, because they find the minimum salary 63600 still too much. They want to reduce it to 53.400 Euro. Therefore they asked the additional commission to review the law change.

Damned, the 1 month left until the law becomes effective and this unclear situation makes the situation of a lot of foreign workers in Germany very bad and keep us with no perspective!! The world crisis is hitting everywhere in the world and German companies started to lay off people everywhere. Playing with the law changes just before 01.01.2009 in this situation makes the situation of the law very unclear. It can be completely void because these kind of decisions for foreigns can go even ineffective. In this crisis a lot of companies fire people and they might object to these kind of laws. The only chance we have is the Elections in 2009.

Damned!! Very bad, to be honest... Bundesrat doesn't see the current economic and market situation...

Klenze17.

http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_090/SharedDocs/TO/851/erl/4,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/4.pdf

and

http://www.pressrelations.de/new/standard/result_main.cfm?pfach=1&n_firmanr_=110858&sektor=pm&detail=1&r=348478&sid=&aktion=jour_pm&quelle=0

Announcement from Bundesrat:
http://www.bundestag.de/dasparlament/2008/49/innenpolitik/22908287.html

Bundesrat insists on reducing the recently change minimum gross annual salary of 63.600 Euro down to 53.400 Euro. The government declared before this salary too low to give unlimited residence permit.

Bundesrat and the government are still discussing on this. It is just 1 month left to 1st of January, when the law should be effective. Last Sunday there was a comment in Frankfurter Allgemeine that the law in these conditions would not be effective in 1st of January because still continuing discussions.

I am afraid it will go to another vote in the Bundestag. No matter what happens, I wish that the salary of 86.400 Euro in the law would be decreased to a reasonable level.

There are several statistical publications from the state that there were very, very few foreigners who took NE wrt AuthenhG $19.

In this crisis I think 53.400 is reasonable. But after the downturn this limit must be increased again.

30 days left to 1st of January and we are still waiting for a stable status!

Klenze17.

Hi everybody:

Just a question about this subject...it seems to me that even if the law changes and reduces the minimum yearly salary, those who are already in DE won't be able to apply for NE because the §19 states that this apply to foreigners arriving to DE...
I will be given a rise in salary that will push me above the limit of >63000 but I don't think I'll be able to apply since I've been here already for several years...can someone comment on this?

may the peace be in your soul

Ary

This is not true.

There are people, like rajeshspg and havehope, who got NE $19, after they have come to DE. If they had given that only to the people who are arriving in DE, that would have been too ineffective, because there are very few people who have come to Germany in the recent years.

This law is effective for everyone who can prove in written form (contract or finance authorities) that he or she can earn 63.600 Euro (or 53.400 Euro if they change it).

Klenze17.

I want to make one point clearer:

Not all the people whose salary is higher 63.600 will have right to get this permit.

Only the people under the description "hochqualifizierte auslaendische Fachkraefte". Ex-Greencard'ler match this description. All computer, electrical, mechanical engineers and IT-specialists.

Not everyone.

Klenze17.

Vermittlungsausschuss (advisory committee) will hold a meeting on 17th of December to discuss the Bundesrat's objection on the minimum gross annual income for NE $19:
http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_099/nn_6898/DE/presse/pm/2008/189-2008.html?__nnn=true

Bundesrat wants to reduce the salary to 53K. Government wanted 63K.

The committee members are 50% from Bundesrat and 50% from Bundestag (parliament). If the committee decision is the same as Bundesrat, the government must reformulate the law and it must be voted in Bundestag again.

On the one hand, reducing the salary is good but on the other hand the process will take so long that it will not be effective on 01.01.2009, stated by the law. This will be then very close to the Elections in June 2009, and might be void...

A lot of qualified people in Germany are waiting for a stable status of this law. The crisis is hitting everywhere in Europe, people are getting jobless. All state bodies (Bundesrat, Bundestag, government and this committee) must be very fast. If this law will not be effective as soon as possible, in 2009 a lot of us will be jobless!

Klenze17.

Today the Vermittlungsausschuss (commission in the parliament) has got a meeting and still not decided what to do with the minimal salary to give the unlimited work/residence permit to the qualified foreigners. They did not decide yet whether 63K or 53K must be the minimum annual gross income to give the high-qualified foreigners unlimited work/residence permit.

However the Vermittlungsauschuss has decided to reduce the minimum amount of money to be invested by the freelancer to found a company, to give an unlimited residence permit. They reduced this amount from 500.000 Euro to 250.000 Euro.

Vermittlungsausschuss will held another meeting on 19.12.2008 to discuss the minimum salary for unlimited residence permit.

In this global crisis I am sure nobody has interest on 250.000 Euro/500.000 Euro stuff. Instead, if you concentrate on unlimited permit of the people, they even can be then freelancer with no money restriction.

Germany is very slow... Foreign investments are overseen.. Every second, minute is a loss for Germany.

2009 will be a very bad year. It still surprises me that still nobody has commented on this. A lot of forum members will be jobless in 2009.

Klenze17.

"2009 will be a very bad year. It still surprises me that still nobody has commented on this. A lot of forum members will be jobless in 2009.
"
Hi Klenze17 - Happy new year 2009 to you too! ;)

@klenze

I dont understand why you are so fixed up on this particular part of the legislation. Forget about it, concentrate on your survival. When are you eligible for normal NE? I think you should already have BE.

raj asks:

I dont understand why you are so fixed up on this particular part of the legislation. Forget about it, concentrate on your survival. When are you eligible for normal NE? I think you should already have BE.

Raj, I don't know whether you have NE or not, but this law change is a very good improvement for the foreign people, because it will give the NE immediatetly. This is the best law since Greencard. Therefore it is especially important for all of us.

I am a GCler who came to Germany end of December 2004 and I still have no NE, because only 4 years passed. The crisis is growing exponentially in Europe and I need this law because I will get NE with this law without 5 year requirement. There are a lot of people in this situation.

The law will be effective on 1st of January, 10 days left and still not clarified. I need this law so that I can inform my HR, because in Germany all companies will fire the foreign people who do not have unlimited permit in this crisis. My company is firing a lot of people now.

There were several similar discussions about GC w.r.t. ZuwG at Trust7. I think you are GCler, therefore I think you don't see this point. You can never understand what I am experiencing here. I am trying here to share a tough stuff which is not easy to find in the press. So, please be patient and think twice when you send a post.

Klenze17.

<i>The law will be effective on 1st of January, 10 days left and still not clarified. I need this law so that I can inform my HR, because in Germany all companies will fire the foreign people who do not have unlimited permit in this crisis. My company is firing a lot of people now.</i>

Hi,
I don't think that is a fair statement you put there.
As long as you have unlimited contract you can get your visa extension..
and to fire people they mostly look at how long an employee is with the company apart from other performance reasons.

If you think you can be fired(hope not) based on not having an unlimited visa, thats kind of ridiculous.

After all the we can only wait for the law
cheers

I wrote:

The law will be effective on 1st of January, 10 days left and still not clarified. I need this law so that I can inform my HR, because in Germany all companies will fire the foreign people who do not have unlimited permit in this crisis. My company is firing a lot of people now.

rajendrak wrote:

I don't think that is a fair statement you put there.
As long as you have unlimited contract you can get your visa extension.. and to fire people they mostly look at how long an employee is with the company apart from other performance reasons.

What is not fair? It does not matter whether you have an unlimited contract or not. If there is world crisis and if people must be fired, if the company wants to fire people, or if there is Sozialplan, then nobody cares what you have. You will be just fired.

If you think you can be fired(hope not) based on not having an unlimited visa, thats kind of ridiculous.

You might find ridiculuous but I see around in the big companies the foreigners are fired first, no matter if they have unlimited contract or not, no matter if they have unlimited residence permit or not.

Now in this case, if you don't have unlimited residence permit, you must go to Arbeitsamt, which is really annoying. And you are not eligible to stay in Germany forever. In this crisis it is extremely difficult to find a job because next year a lot of people will jobless.

After all the we can only wait for the law cheers.

Yes, it has been neverending story.. Only 10 days left before the law must be effective and still the things are not clear.

Klenze17.

Law PASSED! Bundesrat approved the law finally:

http://www.bundestag.de/aktuell/archiv/2008/23098237_kw51_rueckblick/index.html

Der Bundestag stimmte den Einigungsvorschlägen des Vermittlungsausschusses zum Arbeitsmigrationssteuerungsgesetz (16/11390), zum BKA-Gesetz (16/11391) und zum Familienleistungsgesetz mit der damit verbundenen Erhöhung des Kindergeldes (16/11392) zu. Am 19. Dezember gab auch der Bundesrat\ seine Zustimmung, die er diesen Gesetzen zunächst verweigert hatte.

16/11390 is the decision of the commission for the law which regulates the minimum salary for NE $19.

84K for NE $19 has been now officially history!

Klenze17.

Great News indeed!!! It couldn't have come on a better time for me, having spent almost 2 hrs this morning to rescue my laptop from the evil clutches of Antivirus 360 (a real pain in ass).

Thanks a lot Klenze17 for keeping us updated with this good info.

Cheers.

Great News indeed!!! It couldn't have come on a better time for me, having spent almost 2 hrs this morning to rescue my laptop from the evil clutches of Antivirus 360 (a real pain in ass).

Yes, it is really great news!! I hope we get NE immediatiely, without waiting for regular NE time. In this crisis nobody guarantees work. NE is the only survival now in Germany. And this law will give NE immediately.

Since the change is a very special part of the law, I am pretty sure that it will be very problematic with officials at local authorities (Ausländerbehörde Beamten). They will resist mostly, I am pretty sure. Because in this crisis a lot of foreigners will be jobless and therefore they might not correctly process our cases, among so many jobless foreigners in 2009.

Therefore I strongly advise to talk with a lawyer. I will soon print all the law changes to use a print-copy to both the Ausländebehörde and the lawyer.

Thanks a lot Klenze17 for keeping us updated with this good info.

This stuff is extremely difficult to find in the press because almost no press comment on this law. The reason seems to be that even there are very few foreigners in Germany who get this 63K. Very few news published in the press recently.

Therefore I had to follow decisions, commissions at the parliament, every day.

There is no leading case for this law change! I would propose to wait until first week of January.

I ask all Trust7 members who might get NE wrt 63.600 Euro to share their experiences. We need a leading case for this, what to do next.

We might need professional support this. Detlef, is there any activity on your side for this?


Very good New Year gift!!!!!

Klenze17

Great news just before holiday season.

@Klenze17,

Does this change effects for the annual salary >63k or >53k?

Thanks,

Suresh

Suresh asks:

Does this change effects for the annual salary >63k or >53k?

It will be 63K after 01.01.2009. Bundesrat's proposal to reduce 53K was not approved. Only people having an annual salary of higher than 63K will be granted to this NE.

And only "high-qualified people". Not everyone. For example, freelancers cannot get it. I heard people in finance sectors cannot get it. Only people having electronics/computer/mechanical maybe chemical engineering and Ex-Greencard'lers will get this NE.

But we need a leading case for this.

For whom it may concern:

This law item will be changed:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19

law change is here:
http://www.bmi.bund.de/Internet/Content/Common/Anlagen/Gesetze/Entwurf__Arbeitsmigrationsgesetz,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Entwurf_Arbeitsmigrationsgesetz.pdf

Changed sentence:
In § 19 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 werden die Wörter „dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze
der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung“ durch die Wörter „der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze
der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung“ ersetzt.

This is 63.600 Euro for 2008, 64.800 for 2009. Therefore we must apply for this as soon as possible.

Klenze17.

Hi,

first of all I want to thank you, Klenze17, for providing us this very important information!!!!

I read my newspaper every day, especially the political and economy parts, but I did not read one word about this!

I also agree with you about your view of the upcoming problems.

Regarding the new possibilities I will talk to Katja from VPMK about a special offer for trust7 members, to get NE easy :-)

Thanks again
Detlef

This is 63.600 Euro for 2008, 64.800 for 2009. Therefore we must apply for this as soon as possible.

Are you trying to say that one can use the limit 63.600 instead of 64.800 when he manages to apply before 1.1.2009 ?

If it is 64.800 for 2009 then that will be the valid number for the law which will become effective after 1.1.2009. I don't think that you can apply now by referencing a law which didn't become effective yet. So the number 63.600 shouldn't be considered in the context of this law, as it is only for 2008.

Regards,

Lacrima

I wrote:

This is 63.600 Euro for 2008, 64.800 for 2009. Therefore we must apply for this as soon as possible.

Lacrima asked:

Are you trying to say that one can use the limit 63.600 instead of 64.800 when he manages to apply before 1.1.2009 ?

If it is 64.800 for 2009 then that will be the valid number for the law which will become effective after 1.1.2009. I don't think that you can apply now by referencing a law which didn't become effective yet. So the number 63.600 shouldn't be considered in the context of this law, as it is only for 2008.

Thanks for pointing this, Lacrima. This is a very important point that needs to be clarified.

Technically speaking, since the law becomes effective on 01.01.2009, applications can be run only in 2009. So principially 64.800 Euro for 2009 can be taken as reference.

However when someone applies, he or she must prove that he got this salary. This can be done through confirmation from the finance institutions like Finanzamt. They can however give only a printout of 2008, not 2009, because 2009 data has not been collected for the worker.

So according my to the logic above, 2008 measurements must be taken as reference NE$19 applications in 2009. In other words, for applications in 2009, 63.600 Euro for 2008 must be considered.

I might be wrong, but my logic says this is reasonable. I think Detlef or another professional person can help us more.

Klenze17.

Hi Trust7 forum members,

as I have promised to give technical data about this subject, I am writing this post. I am writing this posting which is extremely important for all of us. Please take a printout of this and download all the documents I give its links, because these data are not anywhere in the world, nor any press news comments on this.

1. As you know from my earlier postings in this thread, German state has officially updated the law w.r.t. minimum annual gross income required to get NE (Niederlassungserlaubnis, unlimited residence/work permit) stated in AufenthG §19:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19

2. German government made a program to improve the rights of foreigns in Germany:
http://www.bmas.de/coremedia/generator/26948/property=pdf/2008__07__16__aktionsprogramm__fachkraefte.pdf

3. In this program, they have proposed to reduce minimum annual gross income required for AufenthG §19.2.3. In this law sentence it says:

Spezialisten und leitende Angestellte mit besonderer Berufserfahrung, die ein Gehalt in Höhe von mindestens dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung erhalten.

4. "der Doppelte der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung" is 2x 43.200 Euro = 86.400 Euro (2008) and 2x 44.100 Euro = 88.200 Euro (2009):

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsbemessungsgrenze#Gesetzliche_Kranken-_und_Pflegeversicherung

5. Goverment has made a law proposal (Gesetzentwurf) to change the part I wrote in (4): http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/16/102/1610288.pdf

In this proposal they say in page 5, right column:

In § 19 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 werden die Wörter „dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung“ durch die Wörter „der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung“ ersetzt.

6. "die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung" is 63.600 Euro (2008), 64.800 Euro (2009):

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsbemessungsgrenze#Gesetzliche_Rentenversicherung

7. Bundesrat said the government must reduce the salary down to 53.400 Euro, but government refused it:
http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/16/107/1610722.pdf

8. BeschV (Beschäftigungsverordnung) from Federal Ministry of Labour and Social Affairs (Bundesministerium für Arbeit und Soziales): http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/brd/2008/0840-08.pdf

9. Beschlussempfehlung von Innenausschuss (parliament commission report):

http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/16/109/1610914.pdf
This document is the proof that parliament has passed the law

10. Bundesrat refused 63.600 Euro:
http://www.bundestag.de/dasparlament/2008/49/innenpolitik/22908287.html

They have proposed 53.400 Euro:
http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/16/111/1611166.pdf

11. Vermittlungsauschuss (advisory committe) has concluded not to reduce 63.600 Euro:
http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_099/nn_8538/DE/presse/pm/2008/192-2008.html?__nnn=true

12. Bundesrat then approved the law:
http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_099/nn_8690/DE/parlamentsmaterial/to-plenum/853-sitzung/to-node.html?__nnn=true
TOP 76:
Gesetzeskategorie:
Zustimmungsbedürftiges Gesetz

Beschlusstenor:
Zustimmung

Bemerkungen:
Die Zuleitung an den Bundesrat ist für den 18. Dezember 2008 vorgesehen.

With item 12, it is officially proven that the law is PASSED.

13. Apart from all these, all local authorities for aliens (Ausländerhörde) get "Anwendungshinweis des BMIs" (recommendation of Federal Ministry of the Interior to the local authorities) document, that how they should intepret the law. This document is actually not open to the public, but by chance I have found it on internet:
http://www.inneres.bremen.de/sixcms/media.php/13/e08-07-02-19-Hochqualifizierte2.pdf

There it says

Bei dem Personenkreis nach Nummer 3 ist die Annahme der „Hochqualifikation“ durch ihre Berufserfahrung und berufliche Stellung gerechtfertigt. Um eine missbräuchliche Anwendung und Auslegung zu verhindern, wird zusätzlich eine Mindestgehaltsgrenze in der Höhe des Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung gefordert, die regelmäßig ein Indiz für die herausragende berufliche Stellung und Fähigkeit darstellt. Die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze wird jährlich zum Ende des Kalenderjahres an die allgemeine Entwicklung angepasst. Sie findet sich in der Verordnung über maßgebende Rechengrößen der Sozialversicherung, die im Bundesgesetzblatt Teil I veröffentlicht wird.

Here it says that the salary is a measurement for "high qualification". There is no citation on qualification type, ie. whether you must be an engineer or not.

13. There is no detailed press news for all the stuff above. This law is extremely important for the foreigns and but no press information exist. The list above is the only one that can give you an idea.

According to the data above, anyone must get NE AufenthG §19, after 01.01.2009, as soon as you can prove that you get minimum 63.600 Euro (2008) or 64.800 Euro (2009), immediately. If not, a lawyer, who is expert in foreign law, must win any court case according to the data above.

In 2009 a lot of foreigns will be jobless. It will be then extremely difficult to get this NE because a lof jobless foreigns will occupy Ausländerbehörde. Therefore take a copy of all documents above!

Klenze17.

The law change has been documented in Official Journal of the State, with "BGBl. I S. 2846":

http://www.bgblportal.de/BGBL/bgbl1f/bgbl108s2846.pdf

The PDF document can be accessed from http://frei.bundesgesetzblatt.de/index.php?teil=I&jahr=2008&nr=63 .

With this document, the law is effective as of 01.01.2009, i.e. 84K has been history.

I wish that there would be no problems about this law in practice, but I strongly believe that the alien offices will have a lot of problems to give this permit to the people who need it, because it will be difficult to keep track of the processes for these permits among the foreigns who will be jobless and occupy the offices in 2009.

Klenze17.

Thanks Klenze17 for the update.

Few days ago, I have received approval from Landratsamt which says ''zur Beschäftigung ohne Beschränkung für Sie zugestimmt''.
Does this mean BE ? We are planning to give our Passports middle of this month for necessary stamping.

But with the new NE rules prevailing, do you suggest me to take BE or NE ? Some pointers would be helpful.

Thanks,
Truster

Truster asks:
But with the new NE rules prevailing, do you suggest me to take BE or NE ? Some pointers would be helpful.

Truster, there are tons of posts in this web site, which answer all of your questions. All of us have spent a lot of time to write all these threads/messages. Please don't be lazy, now it's your turn to spend time to get the answers. Also, please read the complete thread of this post.

Klenze17.

Hi,

Thanks Klenze for the valuable info, according to the information provided above.

Today i received letter from landratsamt, with the following

Jahresbruttogehalt i.H.v. mindestens dem DOPPELTEN der Beitragsbemssungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Rentenversicherung.
Diese Grenze bemisst sich für 2009 auf einem Gehalt von mindestens 64.800,- Euro. Also müssten Sie uns einen Jahresverdienst i.H.d. Doppelten, also i.H.v. 129.600,- Euro nachweisen. (§ 19 Abs. 2 Nr.3 AufenthG)

does this mean i should have 129600 Euros as my annual salary ?

Krishna

@krishna

They are wrong

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19

(2) Hoch qualifiziert nach Absatz 1 sind insbesondere

1.Wissenschaftler mit besonderen fachlichen Kenntnissen,
2.Lehrpersonen in herausgehobener Funktion oder wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiter in herausgehobener Funktion oder
3.Spezialisten und leitende Angestellte mit besonderer Berufserfahrung, die ein Gehalt in Höhe von mindestens der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung erhalten.

It only says "mindestens" and not "doppelte". So ask them if they dont have it wrong.

@krishna
they mixed up the lines.
Previously they said before correction..
sth like doppelte....krankenversicherung and after correction its
mindestens...gesetzliche..rentenversicehrung.

So the lines accordign to your letter says doppelte rentenversicherung..
theres some confusion on their part I guess toi interpret the latest and the previous ones.

cheers

Hi Krishna!

yes, as the other members stated, the word "doppelte" is absolutely wrong.

Your case confirms my assumption that this law will be misunderstood or misinterpreted by the officials. We will see similar cases in the following days. Almost no official knows this law. Almost no one in Germany has got this permission. They just don't know and misinterpret the law. Anwendunghinweis des BMI (explanations from Ministry of Interior to the officials) is needed so that they can correctly interpret the law. This document will be distributed to all officials in Germany and might take 1-2 months maybe. Until then we will see such kind of funny things.

Krishna, please post here what kind of things you need to do for this (necessary documents etc). It seems that you have done a lof things about it. What did you do to get that letter from Landratsamt? What was the procedure? What documents are needed? Any single information is vital for us. Plase help!

Klenze17.

Hi all,

I have finally applied for this permit. Let me share the experiences at Ausländerbehörde. I have decided not to take a lawyer but to use the "usual way" for the application. For this, I have applied for this permit at my Ausländerbehörde at Bezirksamt in Hamburg. I have told the official there that I am applying for Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte, also told him about the change in the law.

As I expected, he did not know the change and first he told me that I have prove the salary according to the old law (86.4000 Euro). Then I told him that the law has been changed and shown him the copy of the change in the law (63.600 Euro). Also to prove I have shown him all the salary slips for whole 2007 (12 salary slips) and 2008 (12 salary slips). I have also shown him that my grade (Gehaltsgruppe) is one of the highest levels in Germany. Finally I could convince the official.

Then the official has taken all my documents, gone to his manager and he talked with his manager for 30 minutes. He came back and told me that he copied all the documents I shown him. He said he will send them to Arbeitsamt (Bundesagentur für Arbeit) and ask for their approval, because according to the law Bundesagentur für Arbeit must approve my application (Zustimmung). He said it will take ca. 2 weeks of time. He asked me to come 2 weeks later to him. Arbeitsamt will talk with my HR in the company to get more information about me, to approve my application.

Additionally he asked me that whether I have shown extraordinary performance at work. That means he wanted to know whether I have got some prize or similar. I will show him the bonus/prizes I have got, next time when I am there.

I think as soon as Arbeitsamt approves my application, then it is done.

I think it is very difficult to drive this application progress in Germany because almost no official is familiar with that.

Therefore I strongly advice to all who apply for this special permit to show the officials
- salary slips for 2008 (all of them, 12 months)
- Gehaltsgruppe (which grade you are)
- job contract

I want to point that Greencard IT-ArGV document has helped me a lot. That means, all GClers who still do not have NE but who have min. 63.600 of gross annual salary have right to get this permit.

It is so difficult to convince the officials. Technically speaking I am eligible for this but it is so much challenge to tell this to the officials.

Let's wait for 2 weeks.. After that we will see.

Klenze17.

@klenze

Good luck with your process :-)

@ Klenze17,

All the very best. I am also waiting for the outcome with this new law. Your info was really useful.

sgattu writes:
I am also waiting for the outcome with this new law.

Hi sgattu, good luck with that. In which state are you? What did you until now? Are you in wait process, in the same way as I am? I am waiting now for the approval of Arbeitsamt.

May I ask all friends here in the forum to write down and share what you had experienced. Thanks in advance.

Klenze17.

hi,

Today i have applied, went smooth, as my Company HR had already talked to the Landratsamt (in Bayern), and they know about this change. I have submitted my application, along with the following documents
1) Letter from Company (my salary details)
2) My Flat details(sign from homeowner)
3) Letter from Medical Insurance

They are gonna call me once the visa is ready (2 to 3 weeks).

Krishna

Krishna writes:
Today i have applied, went smooth, as my Company HR had already talked to the Landratsamt (in Bayern), and they know about this change. I have submitted my application, along with the following documents
1) Letter from Company (my salary details)
2) My Flat details(sign from homeowner)
3) Letter from Medical Insurance

They are gonna call me once the visa is ready (2 to 3 weeks).

As you see my friends, applications run differently among the people and states. Everything is quite different

Krishna, I think you started the process through the company. Couldn't you do that on your own, directly at KVR? You said above that you got letter from company for your salary details. Why didn't you show salary slips? Isn't it the same?

They even didn't ask me flat details or letter from medical insurance. I have shown salary slips and it was sufficient.

Interesting

Klenze17.

Hi Klenez,

Now its time for my Visa extension, so i called up landratsamt to find some info on this new law, they sent me the required documents and salary requirement(which i put here two days ago). I informed about this mistake to my HR and the information about the law change, then they called to Landratsamt, Landratsamt confirmed that its their mistake, and asked me to submit the application with the said documents. Even though they asked last three months payslips, they need a letter from my company for confirmation.

I will let u know about the outcome in coming days.

Krishna

@Klenze17,

I am in BW. No, I didn't yet apply for the visa under this rule. I will probably apply next month.

Regards,

Suresh

Hi Krishna,

You said you got a letter a letter from your HR. Could you please let us know what needs to be mentioned in the letter ? Is it only Salary or any zeugnisse required ?

Even I am preparing to apply for NE.

Truster

Letter says since when i am working and what is my current salary. nothing else was mentioned.

Krishna

Landratsamt in Bavaria asks for confirmation from your company == Bundesagentur für Arbeit in Hamburg asks for confirmation from my company.

It is the same. They check with that, whether your salary slips are real or not.. You could show them just a paper you prepared in a computer...

Except for salary slips 2007 and 2008, IT-ArGV (my Greencard), job contract nothing else required. At least now. I am in the wait status for 2 weeks...

Please keep on updating your status.

Klenze17.

I have a question regarding this.

Do somebody needs to have this salary 63600 Per year for a certain period in past to apply for NE ?

i.e. I dont have this salary now, but if i get a job offer with this salary would i be able to get NE right away or i must wait for some months to get salary to show the ABH some salary slips with this salary?

Many Thans,

sensitive007 asks:
Do somebody needs to have this salary 63600 Per year for a certain period in past to apply for NE ?

Yes. Didn't you read the emails we have written? I have written in one my previous posts that I have shown all 12x 2007 and all 12x 2008 salary slips to the official. Could you please read the complete thread again?

i.e. I dont have this salary now, but if i get a job offer with this salary would i be able to get NE right away or i must wait for some months to get salary to show the ABH some salary slips with this salary?

Yes, you would get the NE right away. This is another option, other than the one I mentioned above. The new law change is valid both for the people who is working and earning that money and, and the people who will have a contract for 63K minimum. Your case is the 2nd one. My case is 1st one. You must show your contract to the alien office. They will ask the Arbeitsamt to approve because it is in the law that they have to approve it.

Arbeitsamt will ask your company whether your salary slips or job contract are true or not. There is no other mechanism how to check you really get that.

It is sometimes difficult to convince the officials so be prepared for that.

Klenze17.

Hello,
I am new on this forum but have been reading the posts over here for some time.

I have come to know of two cases of my friends who applied in Bayern. They have got letter from Authorities asking them for their place on the Organisation chart, what siginificance they have in company when it comes to decision making, hiring people etc.
Though they meet the salary requirement for NE for Hochqualifiziert. (NEH)

1. Are such things mentioned in the Law?
2. Is there anybody who has been successful in getting NEH with the latest changes of the law.



br
trustuser

Dear All,

I m a new member in trust7. I have recently shifted to Germany with an annual salary of 67K. I have only 1 salary slip available.Am i eligible to apply for NE rightaway or Should i wait for 1 year or atleast 3 months to get this NE to show that the salary is more than 64K.

I m in stuttgart and if anyone has experience in Stuttgart Auslanderbehörde regarding the same, please share your experiences.

I have a clarification in general, In case if someone loses his job or goes for a salary less than 64K after getting NE, will the NE get cancelled or converted to normal resident permit?

PRL

trustuser said:
I have come to know of two cases of my friends who applied in Bayern. They have got letter from Authorities asking them for their place on the Organisation chart, what siginificance they have in company when it comes to decision making, hiring people etc.
Though they meet the salary requirement for NE for Hochqualifiziert. (NEH)


1. Are such things mentioned in the Law?


No. Decision making, hiring people is not required. Didn't you read my posts? Don't be lazy and please read my posts again. I have put all the links to all the official documents. Even Anwendungshinweis des BMI does not state explicitly that a job function with personal responsibility is required.

If I get such an answer, I would ask for written proof for that comment and would go directly to a lawyer.

I am sure we will win court cases. I don't know why they just do an easy life, which is already for a lot foreigns in Germany, very complicated to us. The official I have talked asked me to get such incredible things that you wouldn't believe. I will not comment on this until my procedure is finished...


2. Is there anybody who has been successful in getting NEH with the latest changes of the law.


No. There are 2 cases in Hamburg where I am living, which are in the same status. We are just waiting and waiting and waiting...

The law is very new, officials just do not know it. And also, due to the crisis Arbeitsamt and related local authorities will be very busy in the next weeks.

Therefore as I said in my prev posts, I repeat 1000th time:
- take print out documents
- contact a lawyer
- constantly follow and ask the officials.

Please update your case (not only you, but all related people).

Klenze17.

Hi Klenze17 thanks for the reply, I have read all the previous posts but I could not find any such things as Organisation charts and stuffs mentioned anywhere in the law, so I wanted to know if somebody knows about it.

After some searching I found a document which is from Arbeits Agentur website. Do you or anybody has any comment on that.

http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/zentraler-Content/A01-Allgemein-Info/A015-Oeffentlichkeitsarbeit/Publikation/pdf/DA-Aufenthaltsgesetz.pdf

Refer to Page 25 and 26, which I could not understand completely. Maybe you have some comment on that.

I believe it tells Arbeitsamt to whom to consider Hochqualifiziert.

br
trustuser

trustuser writes:
After some searching I found a document which is from Arbeits Agentur website. Do you or anybody has any comment on that.

http://www.arbeits...Aufenthaltsgesetz.pdf

Refer to Page 25 and 26, which I could not understand completely. Maybe you have some comment on that.

I believe it tells Arbeitsamt to whom to consider Hochqualifiziert.

Trustuser, many thanks for this document!

This document also confirms the Anwendungshinweis des BMI, ie. that there is no requirement for a manager function, however it is asked to have an "experienced" function (page 25):

Bei dem Personenkreis nach Nummer 3 ist die Annahme der Hochqualifikation durch die
Berufserfahrung und berufliche Stellung gerechtfertigt. Die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze zur gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung wird jährlich zum Ende des Kalenderjahres an die allgemeine Entwicklung angepasst. Sie findet sich in der Verordnung über maßgebende Rechengrößen der Sozialversicherung, die im Bundesgesetzblatt Teil I veröffentlicht wird.

This "Berufserfahrung und berufliche Stellung" is interpreted by the officials as though you must have a manager function. However it is not required. You must have a extensive job experience. You can prove it by your grade and number of years you have worked.

And a very interesting point is (page 26):

Nach § 3 BeschV / § 2 BeschVerfV bedarf die Erteilung einer Niederlassungserlaubnis an Hochqualifizierte nach § 19 Abs. 2 keiner Zustimmung der Bundesagentur für Arbeit.

This is the best thing I have seen!

We can get this permit without permission of Arbeitsamt !!

Klenze17.

Hi Klenze17,

Today i have received my NE under the new rule. I am very much thankful to you for letting me know about the new law. Your information was very much helpful for me.

Thanks a lot to TRUST7.

Krishna

Congrats Krishna

As i mentioned in my post, I have only 1 salary slip. But my Appointment letter says the salary is 67.200 per annum. Shall i apply now or should i wait till i get 3 months salary slips.

Prlamun

@prlamun

Why dont you apply now and see what they say? As you would have know by now, the requirements are different from region to region and there is no standard rule.

@prlamun,

I don't have any idea on this, also as the above reply says, give a try by approaching them directly, of course take the copies of new law (as proof, you can show them if the official doesn't know about this new law).

Good Luck

Krishna

Hi Krishna,

congratulations!! I am the one who followed this law at most but I still have not got it

Please tell me what you did up to now.
- How long did it take?
- What documents did you give?
- Did they talk to Arbeitsamt?
- Which state?

Please write these things and important things here so that everyone can benefit, even me. Since this law is very special case, every single info will help.

Klenze17.

Hi Klenze17,

- How long did it take?
3 Weeks
- What documents did you give?
Last three months pay slips,Letter from my employer (stating my salary & since when i am employed), Letter from Krankenkasse (that i am insured), Letter from landlord (since when i am living, how big the apt, and size of each room etc) { I called Landratsamt and told them i want to apply for NE, and they sent me the list of documents(above) and forms to be filled from me and landlord}
- Did they talk to Arbeitsamt?
I dont know
- Which state?,
Erding, Bayern

hope this helps

Krishna

Hi Krishna,
Many Congratulations for getting NE!
I and few other indian friends would like to know a few more details since yours is a successful case, we have also applied but in Baden Wurtemmberg.

Could you kindly provide your email id or mail at kps1101@gmail.com.


Many Thanks

Hi Everybody,

I have been to Auslaenderamt this morning to apply for NE under NE AufenthG §19.

She reviewed all my documents and said in theory it is possible to apply for this visa. More she said it would take at least 2 weeks time.

In addition, I am also eligible for NE under "§ 9/9a Erlaubnis zum Daueraufenthalt-EG"

Out of these two options which one is better to have?

How long does NE under § 9/9a Erlaubnis zum Daueraufenthalt-EG will take? Is it necessary to have Deutschintgration Kurs and ZD certificate and so on?

Can any one give suggestions on this issue?



Thanks, Suresh

@Suresh

"Erlaubnis zum Daueraufenthalt-EG" is the best residence permit. Go for it, if you fulfill all conditions, It is better than NE.
The best things with this is, it is also unlimited, you can work in many EU countries with this and above all, you can be stay outside EU upto 12 months (with normal NE, you can only stay upto 6 months.

It took for me only 2.5 weeks to get "Erlaubnis zum Daueraufenthalt-EG" but it varies from place to place.

Sorry guys, I am bit lost in this discussion. Can some one clarify as to what NE is all about?

NE= Niederlassungserlaubnis = Permanent residenship.

That means you can stay in Germany forever if you want (with some small capitals).

But that's pretty basic, if you don't know this, you probably need to know more, thing that you can easily get using the search functionality.

Thanks YO. Well I know Niederlassungserlaubnis. But never knew that NE is the term used for it and I am hearing this for the first time :-)

Cheers mate !!
B

@UMTS11,

Thanks for advice.

Did they ask for any German language certificates for NE-Deuer EG?

Suresh

@Suresh

They did not ask me any language certificate, although i took one with me, i think they guess it when you speak with them, how good your language is.

Well reading all of your posting, I am getting a feeling that NE is some thing for which you as a candidate drive and get it done. On the other hands, for all of my friends, the foriegn office is chasing the candidates and giving the status. I heard that as soon as you complete 5 years, you get a reminder to apply for NE or at the time of your work visa expiry, they automatically upgrade you to NE status when you visit them for stamping.

Are there any other experiences?

@UMTS11,

Well, I managed all conversation only in German with authorities. I am pretty okay at speaking and understanding except the grammar part.

Hello,

First of all I want to thank everyone for the info presented in this topic, for me this is a priceless source of information.

I'm an IT specialist and I plan to move to Germany to work. For this i need Limited Residence Permission, and I've found a lot of information on the net regarding this, and each source states something different about the following issues:

1. Who must apply for the limited residence permission, me or the employer?
2. Is the minimal 64000 EU salary requirement applied for the limited residence permission? Or maybe some other minimal value?

I'd be grateful if someone, who has experience in getting this working visa, can help me with an answer or knows some up-to-date resource on the net about this.

Beforehand Thanks,
Felix

@Felix24

1- Employer

2- There is no official salary limit for the limited residence permit. Dont mix up the things. This thread talks about getting UNLIMITED residence permit. For the limited one, it should be enough to get a salary offer which corresponds to the average salary for a German Citizen with the same qualifications as you in that region.(Just to make sure that you are not coming to Germany as a cheap labor..) This value is determined by the regional Arbeitsamt.. should be smt like ~40K annual in West Germany States for a fresh IT graduate.

Regards,

Lacrima