http://www3.bundesrat.de/coremedia/generator/Inhalt/Drucksachen/2004/0727_2D04,property=Dokument.pdf

§46
Übergangsregelungen
(2) Die einer IT-Fachkraft nach §6 Abs. 2 der Verordnung über die Arbeitsgenehmigung für hochqualifizierte Fachkräfte der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie erteilte befristete Arbeitserlaubnis gilt als unbefristete Zustimmung zum Aufenthaltstitel zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung fort

Ist aber nur ein Entwurf. Aber ein guter?

Can't see nothing good, or may be it's because I can't see nothing in.
Unless one explains to me exactly what they mean, I don't wanna be tricked by meaning of burocratic words, my wife has succeded to get some favors from me with this meaning of things that I'm on the sharp edge.

D.

It means you can apply NE after 5 years, your have already zustimmung des A-Amt. And this Zust. isn't timly limited.

yes but as far as I can see (hoping I'm seeing far enuff), it's just a project (Entwurf), ain't it? So it will be certain and only useful if some people somewhere we all know get this as concrete, not project.

The new immigration law had been a project for nearly 2 years so... won't wait til then.

D.

No Bro NoBody.

Is not possible to wait to much. The law start in 1.1.05 and before that this "Entwurf" must be cleaned and tidy.

Maybe this is the document will be treated in November my "friend" bavarian Beamter told me isn´t it?

The theory is good, after half hour trying to understand the languaje, I thing is very clear and positive for us GC.

But, who knows, so many times we were slashed before....

But, by the way, any of the amateur lawyers of the Forum can please me tell me which is the way this "Entwürf" will follow befor it becomes a final document?

Thanks

YO

Hey GC

Please take a look on §3. Endly a definition of who is "Hochqualifizierte" apart from the 82/84 K.

Maybe the Engineers have a kind of possibility?

But the most interesting and silly is would be a lot more easy to get a PR as sporsman than a professional. S..t, If I would know that maybe I could came here as football player and not as GC

Regards

YO

PS: Thanks to Nemo and fortrust to keep alive our hopes finding this PDF

He YO man, "so many times we were slashed before", slashed? You mean being sent on the death row?
I was watching "Half past dead" yesternite with Steven Seagal and Ja Rule, and once, someone was being taken to the death chamber and the guard shout on his was there "Dead man walking...", I think I should say "GC walking..."

About the road leading to there, if it's like everything in Germany, then it will be a long long way as Lucky Luke uses to sing at the end of his cartoons "I'm a poor lonesome cowboy, I'm a long long way to home...", it's an Entwurf long long way to us.

But let's wait and see, may be it's indeed the paper your *friend* was talking about and in that case, he would have been right.
I can just hear the voice of my wife yesternite asking me, laying on the couch "we got now 11 months left, whatcha gonna do now? what are we supposed to do? what are you supposed to do?", I could just look her and say "wait a couple of months and then ask me the question again, on that time, I will know EXACTLY what to do", but I really hope I will.

D.

Sorry.

I don´t find the "Edit" button.

I said §3? Wrong! is §5

For artist and sportsman is §7

YO

Does anybody knows a good Gospel producer? My wife is a good sincer and we can use this artist clause. For real, I'm serious and don't tell me about Popstars :-)

D.

Dear Friends,

Please can any one translate and identifies some of the clauses in this document.

There seem to be many important and relevant clauses.
§3, §5, §6,§27,ZU§3,Zu§4,Zu§5.

theere might be more

Please do this effort.

thanks

I too think all these points have something for us, as well as the last page of the docment.

-Fred

It's wrong. If you are already in Germany, the only realy new and usfl for you is § 46.2.
This BeschV is for "Ausland". And 46.2 stipulates, your workpermit will be "in force" after the 5-yrs period.

Hi *

No amateur lawyers in here today. So, I have to teach myself about laws and try to conclude anything.

As far as I see in the document, this is presented to Bundesrat to be treated. I cannot find when, but last session was on 24.09.04 and next will be on 15.10.04 (not so sure).

I think for the number of the Ordinance, could be treated in that session. It must be an index of themes to discuss on that date, but I cannot find it.

BUT I think this is also important, in the same page, there is also the "Verordnung zur Durchführung der Zuwanderungsgesetz", a 60 Mb PDF with 250 pages that is no other thing than the so expected VwV or "Manual to apply the immigration law". You can see by yourself.

http://www3.bundesrat.de/coremedia/generator/Inhalt/Drucksachen/2004/0731_2D04,property=Dokument.pdf

Regards

YO

60 MB!!!
They really need more GClers.
They made pdf from bmp.
It is much better to combine
doc and few pictures and then create pdf.
That way I could even select some text from pdf.

Can't even load it in the browser, I'm using Flashget to try to get it and the funny thing is that the log of Flashget says "Thu Sep 30 15:46:54 2004 File size unknown, can't start other parts."

I will try to see if I can get it in whole and print it out, looks like it will be something to read all along during the week-end.

D.

You should do Ziel speichern unter...
I got it that way.

I tried but the "unknow file size" I had on the display made me prefer Flashget, but I'm at 50 Mb, so it should be over soon.

If you already pointed some interesting points, just let us know so we could read it straigth to the places.

D.

look what I found in that document from with the name "Verordnung des Durchfürung des Zuwanderungsgesetzes!. It's a link coze the I can not copy paste from that PDF...they just scaned that crap..

http://www.web-a-photo.com/showpic.exe?ID=539140&invite=8b5c8576fca6644f31f81daa91e050cb

so as I understand that GC law is not valid anymore from 1.1.2005!..
I am still searching for something new about our situation..I'll post updates if I find something new. It seems that this document is very official and it is the one that will be aproved.

"it is the one that will be aproved", no, it's the one that will be submitted to approval, quite different.

D.

This detailed work is generaly aproved as it is as much as I know..has anyone found anything about Niderlasungbewilligung? and how can one get it?

Hey Dude

As far as I understood, not in the big scanned document, only in the first document here discussed, it's clearly specified in I guess 46§2 that all of us will be considered, in my words because they submit you to a lot of §§§, "Highly qualified" and we will get a Niederlassungserlaubnis.

If this were the case, I'll buy the law and I will go direct to see our friends from Aamt to shout for my/our rights.

But by now, we have to wait. I don't know if you read the post of this days, but on tuesday I visited the new place of AAmt (Did you visit it?) and they were very well informed, they know of this "Entwurf" (I guess that was the word badly pronounced in Bavarian) but I asked the forum and till today, nobody knew that.

Resuming, in the Entwurf is not written the procedure, but says after our five years, we will get NE, but in no place I found the GC law won't be valid since 1.1.05 (and by the way I cannot open your link!)

Bis bald

YO

"Resuming, in the Entwurf is not written the procedure, but says after our five years, we will get NE, but in no place I found the GC law won't be valid since 1.1.05 (and by the way I cannot open your link!)"


It is not written directly but it is clear.
GC is made according to AuslG and with ZuwG is AuslG not valid any more.
So GC also makes no sence then.
It is written indirectly.
Look 2. sentence in BeschV.

But...

it is god that GC is not valid any more.
At least for us.
That means that GC is considered as every other AufErl which is much better (without stupid limitations).

"erteilte befristete Arbeitserlaubnis gilt als unbefristete Zustimmung zum Aufenthaltstitel"

Hey, hey, hey!!!
Did you read it carefully?

I allways thought they are speaking of unbefristete Arbeitserlaubnis, but they are not.

Unbefristete Zustimmung zum unbefristete Aufenthaltstitel ist also unbefristete Aufenthaltstitel.
Aber Aufenthaltserlaubnis ist in ZuwG immer befristet:
§ 7 ZUwG
Aufenthaltserlaubnis
(1) Die Aufenthaltserlaubnis ist ein befristeter Aufenthaltstitel.

Einzige unbefristete Aufenthaltstitel ist Niederlassungserlaubnis:
§ 9 ZuwG
Niederlassungserlaubnis
(1) Die Niederlassungserlaubnis ist ein unbefristeter
Aufenthaltstitel. Sie berechtigt zur Ausübung einer
Erwerbstätigkeit, ist zeitlich und räumlich unbeschränkt
und darf nicht mit einer Nebenbestimmung versehen
werden.

That means that we get Niederlassungserlaubnis automatically even without fullfilling 5 years and 60 Rentenbeiträge.


Am i right ??? ??? ???

The first document (the small one) doesn't apply to us coze as you may read the title of it is:

"Verordnung über die Zulassung von neueinreisenden Ausländern zur Ausübung einer Beschaftigung (Beschaftigungsverordnung - BeschV) "


which means that that roules are valid only for " neueinreisenden " not for us the ones that are allready here. That is what I understand from that document..



I used OCR on that document and here it is the text from the second document that I posted as a picture:

" Artikel 3 Inkrafttreten, Außerkrafttreten

Diese Verordnung tritt am 1. Januar 2005 in Kraft; gleichzeitig treten

................................

7. die Verordnung Uber Aufenthaltserlaubnisse für hoch qualifizierte auslandische Fachkrafte der Infonmations- und Kommunikationstechnologie yom 25. Juli 2000 (BGBI. I S. 1176), geandert durch Artikel 30 des Gesetzes yom 3. Dezember 2001 (BGBI. I S. 3306)

auller Kraft. "

the last line was "außer kraft".. the OCR program doesn't know ß...

@vchira

We'll here is my humble opinion on this.

As you pointed out the green-card law is history as of 1.1.2005. The "Verordnung über die Zulassung von neueinreisenden Ausländern zur Ausübung einer Beschaftigung (Beschaftigungsverordnung - BeschV) " will probably go "online" on the 1.1.2005. And it makes a reference to the GC law bei stating:
"§46
Übergangsregelungen
(2) Die einer IT-Fachkraft nach §6 Abs. 2 der Verordnung über die Arbeitsgenehmigung für hochqualifizierte Fachkräfte der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie erteilte befristete Arbeitserlaubnis gilt als unbefristete Zustimmung zum Aufenthaltstitel zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung fort"

So it's no way that this paragraph will only have an effect for "neueinreisende" after 1.1.2005, because those folks won't have an "Arbeitserlaubnis" based on the GC law, as the GC law is history at that time...

Even if the title of the "verordnung" is misleading, this paragraph is valid for all current GC holder.

Just my 2 cents..