Hi
I am working as PostDoc and have Niederlassungerlaubnis (paragraph 19) since last month. I have been Germany since 2004. Now I have an offer to join R&D labs of a company in Zurick for 2 years. My status in the company will be visiting scientist. The salary of this job will be paid by my home country and after this training I have to come back to my country and work for some years. For your information I am planning to apply for the passport after 1.5 after attending the intergation course.
I have 2 related questions:
Is it right that to retain the Niederlassungerlaubnis I have to keep my registration and my appartment in Germany? In addition I have to pay taxes from my salary?
And if this correct, this means that it will be no problem for me to apply for the passport? because I heard that when I apply for the passport I have to show that I paid already taxes for the last three months.
I would appreciate your feedback.

>>The salary of this job will be paid by my home country

Which country is that and where will the salary be paid?

>>after this training I have to come back to my country and work for some years.

Does it mean after working in Switzerland for 2 years, you also have to spend more years in your home country??

>>Is it right that to retain the Niederlassungerlaubnis I have to keep my registration and my appartment in Germany? In addition I have to pay taxes from my salary?

Having a registration or an appartment will not help. ofcourse paying taxes here in germany will help as well as getting permission from Foreign office before leaving the country.

>> because I heard that when I apply for the passport

It should read "Citizenship" and not "passport", as you can only apply for passport after getting citizenship.

>> I have to show that I paid already taxes for the last three months.

Exactly. They may ask for the details any time during the citizenship process and you should be able to provide them.

Dear Raj
Thanks a lot for your feedback. If you do not mind, I would discuss my situation in details with you. Could you please, send me your telephone number or your private e/mail? My e/mail is asg6666666@hotmail.com
Best regards,

sorry, my email is asg666666@hotmail.com

@ kkalil,

The discussion is very interesting and informative. If you communicate privately then what is the use of Forums? Please think over and try to continue the discussion here rather in emails. It will be useful for everybody.

Many thanks.

@kalil

As meetmohan told you, it is better to discuss it on the forum as you will get competent advice on the legal ways from other experienced forum members. I am not a profi to make judgement for your case.

Thanks for your comments.
I will give details on Raj reply:
1- Which country is that and where will the salary be paid?
The salaly will be paid by non-EU country and it can be transfered to my bank account here or in my home country.
2-Does it mean after working in Switzerland for 2 years, you also have to spend more years in your home country??
Yes I have to spend some years in my home country.
But before leaving Switzerland I will be finished 7 y and I can then apply for the citizenship. Actually this is my aim, to have the citizenship because then I can come back to my home country to fullfill the working contract without problems.
3-Having a registration or an appartment will not help. ofcourse paying taxes here in germany will help as well as getting permission from Foreign office before leaving the country.
Please, give me more details on how come that keeping my address in germany will not help. What will be the sitaution if I make the address in Germany as my central address and the one in Switzerland is my second address?. I can also say that I am working in Switzerland and come regularly to Germany. As long as I am in EU, nobody will detect how long I stay outside Germany, right?

Concening getting permission from Foreign office before leaving the country: Will they give this permission if I provide them with a document stating that I will do this training for a limited time (2 y) without mentioning going afterwards to my home country?
And in case of getting the permission, this time will be counted or not when I apply for the citizenship?
4-I have to show that I paid already taxes for the last three months.
That is good that paying taxes will help. What about pension? Should I also keep paying it or it is important if I need oly to applicable for the citizenship?

Apart from that, is Niederlassungerlaubnis can allow me to stay in swizerland for more than 3 moths as my status will be a visitng scientist and not a worker? or I have to apply for a permit from there?
I really appreciate your valuable comments.

Please, give me more details on how come that keeping my address in germany will not help. What will be the sitaution if I make the address in Germany as my central address and the one in Switzerland is my second address?. I can also say that I am working in Switzerland and come regularly to Germany. As long as I am in EU, nobody will detect how long I stay outside Germany, right?


* During your application the Citizenship office will review your cv and every year spent in Germany, in the event that something calls the attention of the Officer, the burden of proof will fall on you (you will have to prove that in effect you have been coming back on weekends), the same rule applies on double taxation treaties btw. Also the German citizenship can be removed up to 5 years after being granted, if there were lies, false statements or important information was not disclosed.

Concerning getting permission from Foreign office before leaving the country: Will they give this permission if I provide them with a document stating that I will do this training for a limited time (2 y) without mentioning going afterwards to my home country?
And in case of getting the permission, this time will be counted or not when I apply for the citizenship?

*Considering that its Switzerland its highly unlikely that they don't give you permission, under certain circumstances they might not even require it (i.e. if you lived in the border).

If you do need the permission then the time would not count. Interesting for you would in any case be StAG §12b (2) (http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/rustag/BJNR005830913.html)


4-I have to show that I paid already taxes for the last three months.
That is good that paying taxes will help. What about pension? Should I also keep paying it or it is important if I need oly to applicable for the citizenship?


*Most EBH will ask different documents depending on your circumstances, if you are self-employed for instance you will have to give different documents than if you are employed. Typically they might ask for Tax returns, but also, at the beginning of the process you have to sign a document giving them permission to access all your records in most offices of the government.


Apart from that, is Niederlassungerlaubnis can allow me to stay in swizerland for more than 3 moths as my status will be a visiting scientist and not a worker? or I have to apply for a permit from there?

*The Niederlassungserlaubnis normally only works as a visitor visa, no work can be taken without a Permit (as a visiting scientist there might be rules in Swiss law that help you, though).
Btw, Switzerland has a ventil clause that can even limit the number of Germans working there.

This is not legal advice btw.
-a

Hi aalvarez

Thanks a lot for your information.
After this discussion I understood that in order to retain my Niederlassungerlaubnis as well as to be eligible for the citzenship afterwards, I should>
1- keep my address in Germany
2- keep paying taxes. For this I should inform the finanzamt about my new salary, right?
3- visit Germany at least every 3 months and keep the travel tickets.
On the other hand, what about the kindergeld? should I take it from Germany or form Swizerland?
Best regards

hi kkalil,

the underlying rule is that your center of life (lebensmittelpunkt) should remain in Germany in order to keep the NE, this is the test applied when there are suspicions of § 51 (1) 6 (http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#51). There are regulations that define the definition of center of life. However, as your contract is restricted to two years it can not be said that you are moving out of the country for a permanent reason.

Regarding the taxes, there is a double taxation agreement with switzerland that normally means that you do no thave to pay taxes twice (http://www.grenzgaenger-schweiz.eu/ausnahme60t.htm). However you can still declare the income on your tax return and it does raise your tax level for your german income if you have any.

One thing to take into account is that a citizenship process can take from 1 month up to 2 years, although some states like Berlin try to do it in max 6 months.

Regards,
-a

Hi aalvarez

Actually the contract is limited but for 7 years (2 y training in zurich + 5 y research activities in my home country). During these years I will need to come regulary (at least every 6 months)to Germany to do work in joint projects, attending conferences and other research activities with my collaborators. In addition I am planning to start up a company to do buisness between germany and my home country.
It is expected that I start up this company before the end of the training (i.e. before the application of the citizenship). I do not know if this will clearly show that Germany is my lebensmittelpunkt or not. Let me know your opinion.
Concenring the time required for the citizenship, I heard that the 7 y of residence must be contineous. In my case, during my PhD study I left Germany due to very hard family reasons and I could not extend my visa and then I applied for the visa from my home country. The interruption of my residence was about one and half month. From Section 89 (3),
http://www.iuscomp.org/gla/statutes/AuslG.htm#89
it says that in some cases the interruptions shall remain out of consideration. Can this apply to my case or not?
I really appreciate your comments.

Take a look at § 12b (1) and (3) (http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/stag.html), it might apply to you.

Now, take into account that laws and regulations can and do change (sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse), if you want to have absolute peace of mind probably the best is to talk to a lawyer, to get a written opinion from the ABH, once its in writing it will (in the normal case) have to be upheld.

A newly started company will only give you credibility when it has been operating regularly for some time, as the requirements for self-employed are usually more complicated than for regular employees when it comes to citizenship applications.

Regards,
-a

Hallo,

6 months back I got NE with rule 19 (highly qualified professional). But now my salary is downgraged, 400€ less specified in rule 19. Recently I went to visa department for extention of my wife Visa. For that they verified my new income certificate and said the amount was downgraded, so they want to remove the NE stamping.

Is there a rule like that?

Then yes, what is the purpose of NE?

And the person with Visa NE, can do a freelancing?

Please provide us your kind responces at the earliest.

>>But now my salary is downgraged, 400€ less specified in rule 19.

Why was it downgraded and is it 400 Euro/Month?

>>Recently I went to visa department for extention of my wife Visa. For that they verified my new income certificate and said the amount was downgraded, so they want to remove the NE stamping.
Is there a rule like that?

Yes, they can take back the NE if they come to the understanding that the NE was acquired by false means. In your case they doubt that you and your employer had a understanding that your salary will be artificially high(64,800) until you got ur NE and then fall back to the "real" salary of 60,000Eur

>>Then yes, what is the purpose of NE?

Exactly to prevent fraud.

>>And the person with Visa NE, can do a freelancing?

Yes

Better consult a lawyer with Auslanderrecht.

Hi,

May Salary from 2008 still mid of 2009 was 65000€. But in 2009, depending upon market fluctuvations, it was changed to 63600€.

And NE boundary was 64000€. Thats why i said, it is downgraded to 400€.

How come this is a fraud?

But Employer was not informed about my NE status either at the application stage or in enquiry stage. After stamping only, I informed my Employer.

Actually at the time of my NE application, AA person is not willing to takeup. So, I made a pressure to take that application and get the NE stamped. From that onwards she is very angry at me and taking everything as personal.

Offcource the city where I live has only limited foriegners. AA person knows each and every one by name.

>>May Salary from 2008 still mid of 2009 was 65000€. But in 2009, depending upon market fluctuvations, it was changed to 63600€.

Do you have a basic + variable model salary?
Otherwise how to explain the salary reduction of 130 Euros per month for a high earning member due to fluctuations!


>>How come this is a fraud?

I just explained you the scenario running in the lady's mind. Doesnt mean you had done it for sure.


>>Actually at the time of my NE application, AA person is not willing to takeup. So, I made a pressure to take that application and get the NE stamped. From that onwards she is very angry at me and taking everything as personal.

As i said, if at all the lady sends a letter to take away your NE, contact a lawyer immediately.

There is no variable pay. It is a Organisational level decision to make % cut on each and every employee. This cut was happened for all the employees.

We have got a revision letter also for the same.