- Must speak German.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144,1994157,00.html

Günther Beckstein, interior minister of Bavaria and chairman of the conference, said on Friday that all applicants in future will have to attend citizenship classes. They will include learning about the basic values and fundaments of the German constitution and state.

Applicants will have to pay for the courses themselves.



That's a robbery and a waste of time for some people who do know much more that is going to be told during those courses.

Result: i will never apply for german citizenship if the courses will be made mandatory. guess some other people will make the same decision

"und dass es in unserem Land das Gewaltmonopol des Staates gibt und keine Selbstjustiz".

- http://www.n24.de/politik/inland/?n2006050612362700002

Wrong understanding.

GG Artikel 20
...
(4)  Gegen jeden, der es unternimmt, diese Ordnung zu beseitigen, haben alle Deutschen das Recht zum Widerstand, wenn andere Abhilfe nicht möglich ist.

That's Selbstjustiz. Besides, Stoiber has forgot that das Volk ist der Souverän and not a bunch of politicians like him who de facto claim to be a german state

"Alle Länder sollten in einer politischen Grundsatzentscheidung ausreichende Deutschkenntnisse bei der Einschulung verlangen."

- http://www.n24.de/politik/inland/?n2006050612362700002

lol and if some family came to germany and their kids do not speak german? shall they forever live from Hartz IV then?

http://de.news.yahoo.com/05052006/3/sprachtests-einbuergerungskurse-kuenftig-pflicht.html

"Wie bisher ist ein Aufenthalt von acht Jahren als Voraussetzung für die Einbürgerung vorgesehen. Allerdings soll Ausländern bei besonderen Leistungen auch schon früher die deutsche Staatsbürgerschaft gewährt werden können. Damit werde neben der Verschärfung auch ein Anreiz zur Erleichterung der Einbürgerung gegeben, sagte Nordrhein-Westfalens Innenminister Ingo Wolf (FDP)."


That is good news. We will have to make test but the time will be shortened. I heard on TV it will only six years.
So first GC could get CS this summer and me next year.

What about your current citizenship? Will you have to give it up in order to get the german citizenship?
As far as I know it's not allowed in Germnay to have any citizenship beside the German one.

Yes, Germany only allows one citizenship unless it is an exceptional cases. I did see a document explaining these exceptional cases but could not find it after a lazy search.

Actually does anyone know and can recommend a good lawyer that could help in citizenship cases. I get my NE in May but I have lived in Germany for 9 years. The early 4 years were as a student.

I would like to have a chat with a lawyer and discuss the chances of getting a citizenship.

Die deutsche Staatsbürgerschaft ist nicht irgend etwas Beliebiges, sondern sehr wertvoll, wie man beim Engagement der Bundesregierung für unsere Geiseln im Irak zuletzt wieder gesehen hat.

http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/news/aktuell/2006/05/07/roland-koch/roland-koch,templateId=renderKomplett.html

Oh yes, wer will als Geisel entführt werden, der muss den Pass des deutschen Staatsangehörigen besitzen. Die Leuten im Ausland ja kennen, dass die Bundesregierung aller Wahrscheinlichkeit nach das Millionenlösegeld ja zahlen wird. Aber was passiert, wenn man trotz Erwartungen von Geiselnehmer nicht zahlen wird, hmm?

Bei der Entführung der Britin Margaret Hassan im Oktober 2004 verlangten die Entführer zehn Millionen US-Dollar. Die Briten weigerten sich zu zahlen – Begründung: Für eine Geisel sei nicht mehr als fünf Mio. üblich. Margaret Hassan mußte sterben!

http://www.bild.t-online.de/BTO/news/aktuell/2006/05/04/geiseln-rueckkehr-deutschland/geiseln-rueckkehr-deutschland,templateId=renderKomplett.html#

Wer will sterben, der muss ja Deutscher sein!

Yes, I heard someone with hoch - qualification, when applying citizenship but refusing to reject existing citizen, get double citizenship. I hope it is not rumour. If it is not, I hope to hear comment that if it is country dependent.
J

What is with 6 years? Anybody knows something about it?
I heard on TV they will shorten it from 8 to 6 years in the case of integration test, but I did not find it on the internet. I only found that they really want to shorten it but I did not saw exact numer of years.
In the law it already says something about shortening it from 8 to 7 years in the case of integration course (not test, only course because back than they did not planned any test).

So, if they want to shorten it now in the case when someone does test that 6 years that I heard n TV makes sense. I should be less than 7 with course and more than 5 for NE. So 6 is the only possible choice. But if somebody found link where we can see this 6 years it would be usefull.

BTW, at the moment it is not yet law. We have to wait a litle bit until law is done. But it should not last long because they allready reached compromiss and decided what to do. It just has to be put on paper.

So if you have link stating 6 years fro CS just go ahead.

Regarding double CS the only way I now is when your land refuses to set you free from your old CS. That happends if you did not do the army obligations. In that case you just show that they will not set you free and Germany gives you CS so you than have 2.

"So if you have link stating 6 years fro CS just go ahead."

Hi DvD,

I just found this article :
http://www.taz.de/pt/2006/05/06/a0185.1/text

in the 4th paragraph it states:


Ebenso sei die 8-Jahres-Grenze flexibel, wie Beckstein erklärte: "Wenn besondere sprachliche Leistungen zu erkennen sind oder ein gesellschaftliches Engagement, dann kann man den Pass schon nach 6 Jahren bekommen."


I dont what he really means with "besondere sprachliche Leistung"..

Regards,

Lacrima

Good question.
Is it when you are fluent in german or when you write a book in german language?
I hope first one.

I guess "besondere sprachliche Leistungen" means your language ability should come close to Freidrich Schiller or Goethe :-))

Statistics again is needed

If I understand correctly, the number of people accepted as citizens in Germany is declining and perhaps this explains the possibility of shortening the waiting period from 8 to 6 years for possibly a few reasons
a) to make more current GC or NE applicants more hopeful and continue to wait
b) to make GC-turned NE to wait a while more before emigrating to another EU country
c) to continue to make the law very flexible and yet no know really know what exactly it means.

ON the good side, it is making the Germany immigration law more attractive :-)

J.

It is better for smart ones that can learn german and do the test like most of the GC. But for most of the people it is worse.
They are not concerned about declining nuber of CS. CDU just had to give something in order SPD to accept integration test. So they gave 6 years instead of 8.

@DVD,

As far as CS-Law is concirned, 1 year is reduced from 8 to 7(provided, one has done Integrationkurs) and not 6.

CS-Sponse mitEinbürgerung(4 years Aufenthalt, out of which 2 years must have lived in DE)

CS-Kids (3 years)

If this 6-year is applied, then its not so far :-)

But, I fear that its just an argument and not part of any law. Please correct, if the above info is wrong?

Source: www.einbuergerung.de

Gruss,

A.T

"But, I fear that its just an argument and not part of any law"

Correct. We just discuss here a possibility of a coming law based on the discussions/arguments of the politicians. But as being the lawmakers of the society, politicians' arguments usually give reliable signs for the potential law changes in that area.. ;) nothing more, nothing less..

Regards,

Lacrima

@A.T.

you did not read my text very carefully. otherwise you would not disagree.
I said the same as you: now it is possible with course to cut it from 8 to 7 years.

But this law will be changed. It is 100% sure because CDU and SPD allready reached agreement.
Now they want that we do test after course if we want CS. It will be german test and politics test.

You can not find this info in law because it is not changed yet. They just found compromise few days ago. But since SPD and CDU agreed there is nothing to stop them. You can count with this law changes maybe even before summer. This year for sure.

@DVD,

If this is gonna change before summer, then do update about that change-in-law, as some NE's including myself & Nobody could be able to apply thru this change(ofcourse, this year :-))

Regarding 100-Questions Test, I think, in Hessen, they have implemented by now!

Or there is some special Test extra for this 1 year reduction?

@Lacrima,
Cheers!



A.T

Seriously, what do you gain by taking German citizenship? I think NE should be good enough.

"what do you gain by taking German citizenship"

I myself would gain the following, in case I would decide to take the german citizenship instead of NE.

-> Working in UK without work-permit.
-> Travelling to USA without visa
-> Traveliing to UK without visa.
-> Travelling to Australia,Canada, New Zealand without visa.
-> Working in Sweden without work-permit.
-> Working in Ireland without work-permit.
-> Getting a work-permit in simplified conditions in Switzerland.
-> Not waiting at the passport queues dedicated for 3rd country nationals at the airports of EU Countries and having the privilige of showing only my ID instead of my passport at those EU Airports.
-> In case someone kidnaps me, a government who is ready to fight in order to get me back.
-> If I get lost in the mountains/country-side of a 3rd world country, a government who is kind enough to send a helicopter to pick me up.

Shall I continue or is that enough ??

Regards,

Lacrima

Maybe most important: You can stay home or any where out of Germany, more than 6 months without losing CS. NE would be gone in that case.

In case someone kidnaps me, a government who is ready to fight in order to get me back.

I thoroughly agree with your list of benefits, except for this one. Do you really think that german govt. will ever cough-up 10 million dollars to liberate 2 german citizens of turkish/african/asian origin :-)

"Do you really think that german govt. will ever cough-up 10 million dollars to liberate 2 german citizens of turkish/african/asian origion?"

Ehm.. ok.. that point is a bit debatable ;)

Regards,

Lacrima

@lacrima

but how did you help your homeland? just to getting the citizenship does'nt solve the problem in long term. what after 25 years most young turkish people migrate to somewhere else? what about the future of turkey? will leave it as-it-is? somehow i find that is a partial solution but not the solution which'll solve the problem. as mr. "Akshay" said, does german govt. will pay ransom to get the citizens back if they're from different origin? i just simple don't think so and especially having steibeck.

"but how did you help your homeland?"

Well.. I only have one life and honestly said, I am not that eager to spend that one life of mine to change the corrupt conditions of my homeland.

I love my homeland and I will always have the option to fall back to its citizenship, so in case things turn out to be different and I dont want to live in Germany anymore, I can still live in another country with my german passport, as many other germans do nowadays. I want to have a german passport because of its benefits, because I am restricted in movement (in my eyes unfairly) because of my origin and I want to get rid of this disadvantage. In my heart, I will always stay connected to my homeland and as I said, I will always have the option to get the citizenship of my homeland and throw the german one away.

I also dont see a direct correlation between having citizenhip of one country and helping to that country. I can be a "German" and help my homeland much better than the fellows holding its citizenship.. ;)

Regards,

Lacrima

in furtherance to what lacrima wrote.....

You can only help your homeland when you can help yourself. A weak/impoverished person can not do anything to change or improve the system in homeland, you can only improve things if you are powerful/resourceful person either in homeland or in abroad.

@lacrima

you are right when it comes to free movement and employment opprtunities as well social benefits along with the debts. but it's also good to help as you said to get the homeland out of it's problem by contributing little that future kids have / find little fun there who can't migrate or?

@Akshay

"You can only help your homeland when you can help yourself"

sounds better! otherway is also possible but very difficult

@Lacrima,

As this forum relates to GCs, who fulfilled a criteria to get NEs.

Therefore, I find GS benefitial from Visa/Travelling/Work permit issues, besides other things.

Also, as DVD said, the 6 month limit still holds with NE.

I think, German Govt. would prefer paying Rente than Rescue-Amount in 3WC :-)

Gruss,

A.T

Germany is ahead of others in CENTRAL European countries in terms of immigration law. Dutch started Germany's like GC 2 years? after Germany France is going to have immigration law for high skill workers.

Could making Citizenship sooner an attraction to lure talents to spend 5 years in Germany, instead of France and Netherland? Is this a valid strategy behind the new move in clarifying citizenship?. It is timely that the german government started this discussion in anticipation that many GCs will soon get NE and that some have already get their wish and thinking of leaving. Could this be a way to hold them a bit longer?

Interested to hear other views

J

@jimDav88

Could this be a way to hold them a bit longer?

Well, quite the opposite, it would only facilitate their early departure to english speaking countries like UK, Ireland, Sweden....

I have confusion about citizenship requirements. Is it complementary to have NE first before one could apply for citizenship ?
If not: would it means that a person does not need 5 years job(60 rente) to apply for citizenship after 6-8 years.
Thanks
Kirn

I have a similar problem. I have been here almost 9 years. 4 of them have been as a student and I complete my 60 months rentevericherung this month. So, do I qualify for citizenship? Anyone knows the rules in Bavaria?

I love my homeland and I will always have the option to fall back to its citizenship, so in case things turn out to be different and I dont want to live in Germany anymore, I can still live in another country with my german passport, as many other germans do nowadays.

In my heart, I will always stay connected to my homeland and as I said, I will always have the option to get the citizenship of my homeland and throw the german one away.

It's possible that you will not have such an option if it comes to something like third world war. Because now - you are correct here - just by having a german passport you do help your homeland much better than the fellows holding its citizenship. if it will come to a fight between Turkey and EU later you could be considered as a possible traitor just because of your german passport ;)

It's possible as well that you will not have such an option if EU will make it clear that it won't accept Turkey as a full-fledged member. Because then you are going to help your homeland better by residing in Germany and refusing to go back

You can only help your homeland when you can help yourself. A weak/impoverished person can not do anything ...

Everybody can help their homeland, the questions are: 1) in which way they will be allowed to do that; 2) what they will get for their help. Weak people can help their homeland as well but they are not going to get anything for that. it's possible that they will even have to pay for the honour to be able to help their homeland ;)

Everybody can help their homeland, but strong people do not have to. as for weak ones i would say they are not going to have any choice if their help will be considered to be necessary ;)

@-

You certainly made your point, however it's obvios that you never had a chance to expand your horizon. In a country like India you are nobody (i.e. inferior than animal) unless you know somebody who knows somebody. The only way to help while living in India is either to join politics or civil service. Both options eventuely lead to corruption and exploitation of system rather then changing it. The weak people can't even afford two times meals a day let alone helping the country, instead of improving the sytem they passivly take part in the process of exploitation (i.e. bing exploited). They are the victims of system, the only way they can help is to help themselves and be in stronger possition to oppose exploitation.

Let us put the question in other way.
What problems can taking german CS make?
What is with land or haus that you have in your country?
What is with land or haus that you inherit in your country?

Both options eventuely lead to corruption and exploitation of system rather then changing it.

i talked about helping a homeland, not about changing a system (by changing system some people just help themselves but in no case their homeland). if you are weak, you cannot change a system

The weak people can't even afford two times meals a day let alone helping the country, ...

They help their country in following ways:
- they work a lot and do not require much for that. that should make the country greater even if authorities do lots of mistakes;
- they do not require anything if they do not have any job. thus they are helping their contry - they do not make it poorer when authorities have made lots of mistakes;
- they are ready to die from starvation, if they do not have any job and savings. Thus they are ready to pay by their life for the honour to be able to help their country.

kinda cynic, but that's how the things really are

the only way they can help is to help themselves and be in stronger possition to oppose exploitation.

weak people cannot help themselves and cannot oppose exploitation, they need leaders who must be strong in order to be able to lead. if somebody can help himself and can oppose exploitation (that is oppose a system), he is strong and not weak.

just following leaders doesn't mean you are opposing exploitation. because they do that and not you, you would do nothing if the leaders were not there.

- they are ready to die from starvation, if they do not have any job and savings. Thus they are ready to pay by their life for the honour to be able to help their country.

Great! in order to help the nation, the govt. should organize mass-suicide camps for its poor citizens :-)

Great! in order to help the nation, the govt. should organize mass-suicide camps for its poor citizens

for poor citizens that are weak, remain in the country and don't work - that would reduce an unemployment rate ;)

the ones that work for nothing make the homeland greater

the ones that leave the country can help their homeland later - if they will survive there. if they won't, no problem - one hungry mouth less

if the citizens poor but not weak, mass-suicide camps will not stop them


well do you really think that "democratic" nations help their weak citizens? they just use different methods that achieve the same results ;)

Passau (dpa) - Bayerns Innenminister Günther Beckstein plant in der Integrationsdebatte weitere Verschärfungen - über den mit seinen Länderkollegen gefundenen Kompromiss hinaus. Zum Integrationsgipfel bei Bundeskanzlerin Angela Merkel im Sommer habe er eine Agenda erarbeitet, sagte Beckstein der «Passauer Neuen Presse». So müsse man jetzt auch über die Weiterführung des Ausländerrechts sprechen. Einer intensiveren Diskussion bedürfe zudem die Frage, warum jemand im Land bleiben dürfe, der als Verfassungsfeind nicht eingebürgert wird.