das stimmt, es wird immer wieder von den politikern angestiftet, z.B. Stoiber und Beck in Bayern. Die ganze diskussion um die deutsche Sprache und Leitbild ist auf Auslaenderfeindlichkeit gerichtet und es ist gewollt. Meinetwegen koennen die deutschen unter sich bleiben. Ich habe DE vor einem Jahr verlassen und es geht mir auch gesundheitlich viel besser, muss mich nicht jeden tag mit irgendeine vorschrift auseinandersetzen. Und ich boykotiere bewusst deutsche produkte im ausland, warum soll ich so eine gesellschaft noch unterstuetzen.

Cheers

@JJ

you are definitely right when it comes to "Beck" i'm watching this guy for quite long time in tv-interviews and his views about foreigners. now for me it seems like "Bayern" people are like that in case if someone can generalize based on mejority. i'm also arriving to conclusion as in here either communists (quasi in the name of socialism) or center-right (neo's indireclty covered) are getting crowded. you heard prolly in few months how many attacks against people afrika and turkish/kurdish in germany. so it's good idea to keep in mind of quick exit strategy in mind.

i'm also arriving to conclusion as in here either communists (quasi in the name of socialism) or center-right (neo's indireclty covered) are getting crowded.
...
so it's good idea to keep in mind of quick exit strategy in mind.

i would say that people from arfika and turkish/kurdish are not the first ones who should worry about such development of political situation here. the first ones should be those that have lots of money and don't like to work.

2 all: my post above doesn't mean that i approve any kind of violence and/or racism. it's just my opinion as independent observer on the subject what is gonna happen when communists or NPD come to power

Hey,

wenn politiker, aka, Stoiber, Beckstein, etc., mit eindeutige rassistische einstellung und aeusserungen and der spitze der politik sitzen es sagt sehr vieles ueber der gesellschaft aus. Die jungs sind nazis, nur anders gekleidet. Und es geht nicht um leute aus afrika oder tuerkei, es sind halt alle auslaender damit gemeint. Und Bayern ist die hochburg der nazis, geht doch mal nach passau, das ist westdeutschland und da sieht ihr was los ist.
Ein freund von mir, der deutscher, sieht aber halt wie ein tuerke aus, erzaehlt mir wie gegen ihn immer diskriminiert wird, so in geschaeften, in der oeffenlichkeit. Der junge hat einen Dr. der physik, hat an der MIT studiert und hat seine eigene firma und dutzned angestellte. Also kein arbeitsloser, sieht aber halt nicht deutsch aus und lebt in bayern.
Der "nazismuss" ist sehr weit verbreitet in deutschland und es wird nichts dagegen gemacht. Und so eine gesellschaft verdient keine unterstuetzung.

Cheers

Normalerweise vermeide ich es, mich an solchen Diskussionen zu beteiligen. Aber beim Lesen dieser Posts bin ich doch ein wenig wütend geworden. Wenn ich etwas überhaupt nicht leiden kann, dann sind dies Verallgemeinerungen.

Klar hat Deutschland ein Problem mit dem Rechtsextremismus, diese Gefahr ist nachweisbar höher als die islamistischer Terroranschläge. Jedoch ist die Behauptung, dass Politiker Nazis sind und die Diskussion um die deutsche Sprache etc. auf Ausländerfeindlichkeit gerichtet ist, nicht haltbar.

Offensichtlich gibt es auch ein Problem mit der Ausländerintegration und es ist doch nur gut, dass gegenwärtig viel darüber gesprochen wird. Dialog und Diskussion sind für einen demokratischen Staat unverzichtbar.

Trotz aller Diskussionen und Meldungen über gewaltsame Übergriffe ist es einfach Tatsache, dass die große Mehrheit der Deutschen täglich mit Menschen nichtdeutscher Herkunft lebt, liebt und arbeitet, sich darüber freut oder noch nicht einmal mehr darüber nachdenkt.

Die latente Ausländerfeindlichkeit –überwiegend im Osten Deutschlands – hat bestimmt vielfältige Ursachen. Es gibt jedoch keine Argumente, die Thesen rechter Parteien überzeugend stützen könnten. Auf der Homepage der NPD findet man u.a. „alle Ausländer aus der Sozialversicherung ausschließen“. Jeder klar denkende Mensch weiss, dass dann das eh schon marode System zusammen brechen würde. Das ist nur ein Beispiel von vielen.
„NPD come to power“ Sorry, das ist totaler Bullsh….

Nun, um zum Schluss zu kommen. Ich finde es richtig, dass Ausländer, die hier Jahre lang leben und auch hier bleiben möchten, also vielleicht auch eingebürgert werden wollen, über ausreichende Kenntnisse der deutschen Sprache verfügen sollen. Das ist doch das mindeste. Ausländer, die die deutsche Gesellschaft verachten, können ja auch wieder gehen. Tut mir leid, wenn es ihnen hier nicht gefallen hat. Es gibt auch viele, denen es trotz aller Nachteile hier gefällt. Das ist für mich ein Grund, optimistisch in die Zukunft zu blicken.

@Sabine,

bitte nicht wuetend werden. Lese bitte doch mal den folgenden bericht. Ich finde es lachhaft, und sehr traurig. Ich stehe bei was ich gesagt habe, die deutsche regierung ist mit ganz kleine Ausnahmen eine rassistische regierung, die neo nazis unterstuetzt. Es gibt zu viele Beispiele um sie alle hier aufzufuehren, das schulsystem sagt schon auch vieles aus, nicht nach meiner meinung, sondern von etlichen internationalen experten, der regierung kuemmert es einen dreck, anstatt wird eine kampanie aufgerollt, wo auslaender wie deutsche sich benehmen sollen, lachhft.

http://de.news.yahoo.com/23052006/3/haftbefehle-potsdamer-tatverdaechtige-aufgehoben.html

Schade nun ist der link wieder weg, das war sehr schnell, es zitierte den richter "es mag sein dass sie staerker zugschalgen haben wege seinder dunkelen hautfarbe" das bedarf keinen kommentar denke ich. Und es findet sich immer wieder einen richter, der es so hinbiegt, dass es den neo nzis nichts passiert.

No Cheers

Hier ist nochmal ein link

lest zwischen den zeilen, "mishspur" dass ist nur wenn man es so will.

http://www.n24.de/politik/inland/?n2006052316053700002

@sabine

"Klar hat Deutschland ein Problem mit dem Rechtsextremismus,"

that's what we are discussing about.

"diese Gefahr ist nachweisbar höher als die islamistischer Terroranschläge."

you are just simply mixing-up two entirly different issues, like americans i would say. i'm not a moslim either, but comparing "Rechtsextremismus" and "islamistischer Terroranschläge" is just simply non-sense! and i can justify that.

"Jedoch ist die Behauptung, dass Politiker Nazis sind und die Diskussion um die deutsche Sprache etc. auf Ausländerfeindlichkeit gerichtet ist, nicht haltbar."

i do support as most well educated foreigners about "deutsche Sprache", anyone who want to stay or to get citizenship should be able to speak german language, so no one deny this in here. we are talking about something entirly different issues and you are mixing up the things. do you get your birds get treated because your cat has fever by any chance? i hope not!

"Offensichtlich gibt es auch ein Problem mit der Ausländerintegration und es ist doch nur gut, dass gegenwärtig viel darüber gesprochen wird."

unfortunatly there are germans who needs as well "Integration" and no one talks about that, that problem create this "Ausländerfeindlichkeit" as in the past it happened within few years.

"Dialog und Diskussion sind für einen demokratischen Staat unverzichtbar."

nobody did deny that as far as my understanding, i went through once again complete thread to find out.

"Trotz aller Diskussionen und Meldungen über gewaltsame Übergriffe ist es einfach Tatsache, dass die große Mehrheit der Deutschen täglich mit Menschen nichtdeutscher Herkunft lebt, liebt und arbeitet, sich darüber freut oder noch nicht einmal mehr darüber nachdenkt."

you are right, but we are discussing about decrease in that way of life.

"Die latente Ausländerfeindlichkeit –überwiegend im Osten Deutschlands – hat bestimmt vielfältige Ursachen. Es gibt jedoch keine Argumente, die Thesen rechter Parteien überzeugend stützen könnten. Auf der Homepage der NPD findet man u.a. „alle Ausländer aus der Sozialversicherung ausschließen“. Jeder klar denkende Mensch weiss, dass dann das eh schon marode System zusammen brechen würde. Das ist nur ein Beispiel von vielen."

you know in the past, due to internal social problem who took the advantage. i'm sure you know better than all of us.

"„NPD come to power“ Sorry, das ist totaler Bullsh…."

nothing is "bullis..." within few years everything can change, as in the past or? the only danger is that when they come into power with different makeup and we donot recognize.

"Nun, um zum Schluss zu kommen. Ich finde es richtig, dass Ausländer, die hier Jahre lang leben und auch hier bleiben möchten, also vielleicht auch eingebürgert werden wollen, über ausreichende Kenntnisse der deutschen Sprache verfügen sollen. Das ist doch das mindeste. Ausländer, die die deutsche Gesellschaft verachten, können ja auch wieder gehen. Tut mir leid, wenn es ihnen hier nicht gefallen hat. Es gibt auch viele, denen es trotz aller Nachteile hier gefällt. Das ist für mich ein Grund, optimistisch in die Zukunft zu blicken."

even i wish the same too, but the question is how long until i can walk-around safely. i'm even happy to know where we (foreigners) are not allowed to go (legally if possible) to be safe.

@-

"i would say that people from arfika and turkish/kurdish are not the first ones who should worry about such development of political situation here."

potsdam? berlin? what else and how many those events reminds us? even serial killings are going on? do you have "ears"?

"the first ones should be those that have lots of money and don't like to work."

that is what a communist thing exactly. when i've enough money why the "f***" i should work when i can live without. even communist leader does the same. it's like increasing the tax on everything because you are politiker and get everything free?

" my post above doesn't mean that i approve any kind of violence and/or racism."

what else then?

"it's just my opinion as independent observer on the subject what is gonna happen when communists or NPD come to power"

so i get your onion opinion! as an independent observer, you've complete different illusions as south american. but north korea is good is'nt?

„NPD come to power“ Sorry, das ist totaler Bullsh….

if the government will only increase taxes and bureaucracy but do nothing about existing problems (i do not mean Auslaenderfeindlichkeit here) i would say that such a "totaler Bull...." has very-very good chances to become a reality

the only danger is that when they come into power with different makeup and we donot recognize.

makeup will be the same, still you will not be able to stop them

potsdam? berlin? what else and how many those events reminds us? even serial killings are going on? do you have "ears"?

you don't understand. if communists or nazis should come to power, they won't fight vs. the whole world, nor can they start such a fight and be successful. they will need allies in order to be successful. US will never support communists or nazis here - both are deadly dangerous for interests of US. who remains?

if communists or nazis come to power here, they will need lots of money in order to be able to close budget holes and solve problems created by their predecessors. from where can they get those money, from afrika/turkish/kurdish people who live here? don't you find such an idea ridiculous? don't you think that they will go after jews and americans instead?

for some people it probably doesn't matter whose a.s to kick, but i am sure that other people will decide whose a.s is gonna be kicked if communists or nazis come to power.



ones again, my post above doesn't mean that i approve any kind of violence and/or racism. i just voice my opinion as independent observer on the subject that is being discussed in this thread.

no objections whatsoever if this thread gets closed / deleted ;)

@-

"makeup will be the same, still you will not be able to stop them"

you can't stop the, but you can escape.

"you don't understand. if communists or nazis should come to power, they won't fight vs. the whole world, nor can they start such a fight and be successful. they will need allies in order to be successful. US will never support communists or nazis here - both are deadly dangerous for interests of US. who remains?"

US can support anybody at anytime, if their needs are involved as we've seen everywhere.

"if communists or nazis come to power here, they will need lots of money in order to be able to close budget holes and solve problems created by their predecessors. from where can they get those money, from afrika/turkish/kurdish people who live here? don't you find such an idea ridiculous? don't you think that they will go after jews and americans instead?"

nothing is rediculous as everything is open, just scan histroy of germany before 1945 then you know what i'm talking and how they got money. they are the one who started autobahn to get money, did you know?

"for some people it probably doesn't matter whose a.s to kick, but i am sure that other people will decide whose a.s is gonna be kicked if communists or nazis come to power."

yes

"no objections whatsoever if this thread gets closed / deleted"

i do have!

Hi,

I like to add one last thing to this subject, that is my opinion of course.

The good times for Europe are past, specially western europe. Economically, politically and society as a whole are becoming more and more irrelevant. Now it is the turn of the asian countries, i.e. China. And europe, specially Germany is ill prepared to deal with a continous down turn, there foreigners at the least integrated and I fault the government for it and not the foreigners.Add to all of this the stubborness of the Germans connected with their misplaced pride.

Cheers

The good times for Europe are past, specially western europe.

i wouldn't say so ;)

Now it is the turn of the asian countries, i.e. China.

Why should western Europe worry much about China right now, escapes me. It can't possibly make a claim on territory of west european countries yet for generations to come and therefore does not represent any immediate threat to Germany. Nor should it matter for west european countries that China is a main source of cheap labour force in the world, because cheap labour force doesn't disturb an equilibrium just by itself; it needs investitions and access to markets in order to be able to get a possibility to change anything, that is the things controlled by west european countries as well.

However it would be interesting to think about possible development of situation around border between China and Russia if that cheap labour force in China doesn't get enough investitions and access to world markets in some moment of time

Hi ,

Another attack on foriegners :

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,418113,00.html

I hope that politicians will not jump now and say "Its because these people did not want to Intigrate they were attacked " . As they used to say on the media .

I blame the politicians for this hatterd on foriegners . As soon as elections are due , they forget about economic problems in the country and start speaking about integration , Citezenship tests . They convinced a larg sector of the people that problems of this country are because foriegners are working here in order to attrackt more electoral public .

Regds

JJ wrote:
Economically, politically and society as a whole are becoming more and more irrelevant.

You have of course evidences for that. Riots in France, the highest unemployment rates in France and Germany since the 2nd World War, NO votes from Holland and France against EU Constitution Law, cheap labor threat coming from new 10 EU members.

But I think it is too early to say that they are irrelevant.

"-" replies:
Why should western Europe worry much about China right now, escapes me.

Yes. For example go to any shop. Look at the bottom of Adidas, Puma shoes, look inside of any west brand Tom Tailor, Lewis, Esprit, Wrangler etc.. etc.. All the products of west brand have been produced in China, India, Bangladesh, Turkey..

The capitalist system in EU and USA chose that. Why would they worry much about, though..

green2000 adds:
Another attack on foriegners :
http://www.spiegel...0,1518,418113,00.html

These two cities are in East Germany. East Germany is economically worse than West Germany.

The worse the economy is; the more difficult to find a job, the more raises the nationalist feelings, or less tolerance to something.

Germany's economy is in recession since the beginning of this century; but they are doing everything possible to reverse the downturn.

Klenze17.

there were three attacks on foreigners on 26.05.2006 in germany, i donot know how many of you got this news.

- two in bavaria (so called free state)
- one in east-germany (a communist state previously)

among those victims -

- three turkish (in one attack)
- one indian shop owner
- three africans

@klenze17

"These two cities are in East Germany. East Germany is economically worse than West Germany."

so you mean only east-germany? what about bavaria?

"The worse the economy is; the more difficult to find a job, the more raises the nationalist feelings, or less tolerance to something."

i donot think so, i can get you bunch of people who are bosses and well educated west-germany people who belong to those category. so?

"Germany's economy is in recession since the beginning of this century;"

i have very good experience of that anyway

"but they are doing everything possible to reverse the downturn."

increasing the tax? (that is the only solution they've found until now, thanks-god) i donot belive that would help in anycase of getting the country out of recession, you can see that prolly will feel very soon all of us.

increasing the tax? (that is the only solution they've found until now, thanks-god) i donot belive that would help in anycase of getting the country out of recession, you can see that prolly will feel very soon all of us.

that only means that politicians are helpless, do not control anything and can't change anything. they should reduce bureaucracy and make major changes in the whole system, but they can't do that because it's not possible to make those changes without narrowing of democratic rights. this of course doesn't mean that existing problems will just vanish, it's more likely that it will be more and more necessary to do something about them. and in one day people will say "enough!" and will elect communists or nazis, and you can't do anything about that ;)

@-

the communist in former east germany hat no problems with foreigners, there were plenty of them from vietnam and other communist countries living there.

Germany is far-right oriented and has always been. States like Bavaria are of course more than the states like schleswig holstein.

I the government wanted to do something about it, it could easily but the issue is that they are part of the system.

Why would they release guys after initial arrests, or say that they did NOT intend to kill their victim, how absurd. So their crime is less important and the evidence is not clear. They initially said the DNA trace was a "mish spur" mixed-trace. they use anything to reduce the issue, and all of this does NOT NOT happen without sympathisers in the government and courts.

I wonder if they would react the same way if it was an islamsit attaking? Ahh, these guys are right wingers or people from the right, the others are terrorists and foreigners who don't integrate.

Instead of giving heavy jail sentences to the nazis they are paasing the buck, like this court is not responsible, and the other court has no juristiction, and deny it is hate crime issue, or may be the african guy provoked those attackers, all this has been said lately.

All of this will further the image of germany being a nazi country, still. And that with reason.

All of this is of course my personal opinion and i am not in any way affiliated with any party or political group, right, center or left.

Cheers

Amoklauf bei Bahnhofseröffnung: 28 Menschen niedergestochen
http://www.n24.de/boulevard/nus/?a2006052709453065060


"Hintergründe der Tat unklar
...
Er stammt nach Polizeiangaben nicht aus einer Migrantenfamilie."


Klar, wenn er kein Ausländer ist.

they use anything to reduce the issue, and all of this does NOT NOT happen without sympathisers in the government and courts.

lol what else should they do, say aloud to the whole world that germany has rasists and can't do anything about them? come on, every country does the same thing with their nazis

besides, such people (i mean nazis) can be very useful in some cases. that may sound cynical, but it's a simple fact of life: governments in all countries use all their resources including nazis, rasists and terrorists.

or may be the african guy provoked those attackers, all this has been said lately.

well that can be the case as well, why do you exclude such a possibility? drunk people tend to do stupid things that they would never do in their normal condition

and i would say that people should await something like that when they show their intolerance to people with other skin colour first. tell me why two german guys were not allowed to enter african disco in the first place?

i will give you one example so that you will not say that germans are responsible for everything. we have one african disco here in Mannheim, i used to visit it time to time. everything was nice till the day when i refused to buy one african guy a glass of cola. now they don't let me in without any explanation *lol*

Klar, wenn er kein Ausländer ist.

dangerous guy i would say. not everybody could do something like that in the center of the city, and people with police needed whole 10 minutes to stop him!

btw this case shows that you always have to be able to protect yourself and must not count on some help or on the possibility to cry about nazis afterwards. the guy didn't go after foreigners or?

@-

"that only means that politicians are helpless, do not control anything and can't change anything. they should reduce bureaucracy and make major changes in the whole system, but they can't do that because it's not possible to make those changes without narrowing of democratic rights. this of course doesn't mean that existing problems will just vanish, it's more likely that it will be more and more necessary to do something about them. and in one day people will say "enough!" and will elect communists or nazis, and you can't do anything about that"

good one ;)

"you can't do anything about that"

yup, but we can get ready to run away!

yup, but we can get ready to run away!

where will you run? to Bavaria?

@-

"where will you run? to Bavaria? "

what world means to you? only bavaria? then yes!

what world means to you? only bavaria? then yes!

probably lots of countries eagerly await your arrival and compete for the honour to have you in ranks of their citizen. as for me, i still did not receive any single invitation, so it seems that Bavaria will not be able to get rid of me

About not being allowed in an african disco.foreigners me included have been refused entry to german discos.most of the time the door keepers would say."PRIVATE PARTY",even though we were properly dressed. here in germany double speak is alive and booming.as Ive mention before its getting worse and in such a short time.heres an example I was at an african disco with some african freinds when the police came and said the music was to loud.although the music could not be heard outside.only when some other germans(residence in the area who had nothing negative to say about the disco) started a debate with the the german couples hanging out of their apt windows(they apperently were the complainers,because the whole time they were making racial remarks)but the police refused to take a complaint(anzeige)against the couples.even though several people wanted to german and foreigners include.this happened in Mannheim