All those who are thinking to come Germany to work think before you make your decision else you will regret and feel helpless someone taking away your rightful money with the shameful bureaucracy.

Here is an example may be many are not aware or will not know unless face the situation themself.
When one start to work in Germany,we are bound to pay unemployment insurance(Arbeitlosenversicherung) money form our salary every month the reason behind that is one can survive when become jobless due to unfortunate circumstances.
But there are many hidden things behind this.
1. To get that money as Arbeitslosgeld when one is unemployed one need to have a valid visa.
2. (Not always but as in Germany all things are dependent on the mood of the person sitting on the other side of the desk at the govt. departments and also from state to state although the Arbeitsamt is a single body for whole Germany) Many have faced this too, that to get unemployment benefit the Arbeitsamt will tell that to get unemployment benefit the visa should not be company dependent, in other words one should have a visa that allows one to work for any employer.

Now the shameful German bureaucracy:

1. There are many who come here on limited contract and then too they pay the unemployment benefit. So for example Mr./Ms. X after working 12-24 month the company say they have economic problems so they can't extend the contract, and at the present situation Mr./Ms X don't get a new job. So the arbeitsamt says they can get unemployment benefit only with valid visa and the shame is the Auslandersbehorde(Foreign Office) says they can give visa only if Mr./Ms X have a job offer, else they have to leave Germany.

2. The Arbeitsamt knows very well that the visa does not become company independent before a person works 24 months atleast or have given taxes for 24 months combining some other jobs which will not be the case if one come Germany first time only to work. So if they can only give Arbeitslosgeld only to people with company independent visa then why do they take the unemployment insurance money in the first 24 months.

All people here talk so much about so many things. We were hired by European companies because they could not find a candidate in whole EU(As per law to hire non-EU) and then we being given highly qualified job visa, and suddenly after 2 years asked to leave.
So all highly qualified people whoever can be in the same situation in future be careful that Germany can take our legal money with its shameful bureaucracy and we could do nothing.
And All those who are thinking to come Europe(especially Germany) to work, be careful that if you suddenly loose job, you will be bound to leave the country the same day your visa expires, leaving behind your money and your right to get the unemployment insurance money,which you gave for this bad day, without knowing that there is such shameful bureaucracy behind it.

Hey man cool down.
"We were hired by European companies because they could not find a candidate in whole EU"
Those days are gone now there are lots of what you call Highly qualified from other EU nations who are ready to work here the only reason they hire you is because of cheap labor.
If you think that you are Highly Qualified and being cheated by bureaucracy here then why you come here,because you get a better life and still you earn more than what you earn in your country.
Take for example Mr./Ms X work here for 12-24 months and don't pay any unemployment money and after 2years change the visa and start working for another employer and after 5 months loses his/her job in that situation you are eligible for unemployment benefit but actually you only paid for 5 months then from where the government going to pay this and if they don't then also you gona shout.
So you you claim to be a Highly qualified and companies are after you then sure you will find a employer when you loose the job and get your visa changed otherwise just think you paid the money for others benefit

May be you were hired as cheap labour:-)
Well dude the point is not that, its one will find job if one gets visa extension and not that leave the same day.

@ritrits

very nice thread dude! We pay insurances, such as health, pension, private, car insurances etc etc...basic principle of paying insurances is that they should support us when we need them. So why not arbeitlos?

@Raj2001

Just imagine a German working for 2 years and not getting arbeitlos geld?

@all who complain about not getting unemployement insurance

Be happy that you are getting atleast ALG after 2 years. No other country offers this for workpermit holders. It is actually the good will of the german government that they extend this program for other when it was actually meant for their own citizens. Consider the amount one pays for arbeitslosenversicherung and the amount one gets back when claiming ALG. if one had paid for 2 years then it is enough for only 2-4 months of ALG. Definitely the govt does not want to go bankrupt.

I am sure this rule of 2 years is only recently made and not there before a few years.

@ritrits

You have no idea how fortunate you are working in Germany and not in US.

H-1B workers are technically required to leave the country immediately upon being let go, they can probably squeeze in a week, or two at the maximum, of additional time in which to find a new job.

Read more: http://www.fiercecio.com/techwatch/story/h1b-visa-holders-race-against-time-stay-u-s/2009-02-03#ixzz0PkPzyDWT

Those who complain and shout about Germany and life here they should first know about all these things before they come here but you guys are ready to do anything to get the visa stamped and after working here for few months start shouting.
If you guys work in US,UK,Australia or any other place you don't get any unemployment benefit and also you don't get the pension money refund which you get here after 2 years you leave Germany.
Instead of complaining just look for a job.
As mentioned "Germany all things are dependent on the mood of the person sitting on the other side of the desk"
This is not true,if you have all the documents and in order and if you are eligible then you definitely get the extension but going to Arbeitsamt without proper docs and then begging in front of the person Sir sir Madam madam please give extension does not work here also you cannot bribe them the way it works in some other countries.

@raj2001
You stop shouting when you have no idea of the rule and regulation yourself.
First go and read the section about Visa Questions and then you will know, that those who are having all the documents and even went through lawyers are asked to leave becoz of not having a job contract, even though they have the document from Arbeitsamt clearing stating that they will get ALG.
And also what documents you will bring if one loose job after 13 months and his/her visa is company dependent and the Arbeitsamt says they can get ALG only with company independent visa.

You don't shout becoz you are not here the only one. This post is for all those who are thinking to come germany for work, and they should have the knowledge of the system.
So now better keep your mouth shut like a good boy..

@Akshay

Well I think you are fortunate for not being in the situation like other co-members here, else you would have said the same.

And let me tell you those who come to EU to work they come becoz they are aware about the call for evening tea and fire policy of the US.

Yes you are fortunate that your country men are not given visa extension even though they have the right and also elligible to get the ALG and even have the written confirmation from the concerned dept.
Bravo your way of defining fortunate is great, seems you are the culprit of US firing and the burning still hurts you.

So you want they should extend your Visa without having a job only so you can sit at home and claim all the money which you paid as unemployment insurance.Do you mean they should start a new Visa called "ALG claiming Visa"
When you work on a limited period contract then you should be aware that they may not extend then you should have started looking for a job and not wait for your Visa to expire and get extension then you get ALG benefit and take all your money back.
No one is saying that you don't get the ALG but just for claiming ALG without having a job and giving you the Visa extension is not the right way.
Thanks due once again for paying the money for our future,will remember you when i claim the ALG

@raj
I think you don't know the meaning of insurance.first of all the ALG is not any public or government money its insurance money.
Consider the amount the insurance departments takes and more than 90% never even take that benefit.
Thats why insurance companies exist.The German unemployment rate in march was 8.6% means only that much percent actually needed ALG

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7973708.stm


One pay health insurance and many never even go to doctor but when they go the insurnace company don't deny to pay them, or they don't put any conditions and say that the disease cost are only given to people above x years of age.

But according to @raj:
The insurance companies should deny to give the money when one needs it, saying you gave only this much and your expenses for the treatment is 10 times so we will not give.

@rit
I think it is you who are shouting. Rules are Rules, if you dont like you can pack your bags. Each govt can make their own rules according to the situation facing the country. Either you agree with it and stay put or disagree and leave. Dont talk about injustice as it is part and parcel of every country. Now you talk about ALG and rules, but how did u come across them?

@akshay

Better get back to your old sarcastic self. Eitherway people start bashing you whatever you write. Better to be yourself and face the music than trying to moderate your comments and still face the music ;-)

@raj2001
ALG is never given to people having job. So you first learn the system.

@ritrits

Does life insurance pay if one does suicide even if they have paid the insurance life long? Who made that rule and why? That same thing applies for your ALG. There are rules that you cannot get ALG even if you paid for it. simple logic.

Anyways these Socialversicherung are not insurances in the English sense. It is a socialist way of distributing.

Ever heard of preexisting conditions in regards to Healthinsurance where health insurances do not cover for that particular illness

@raj
yes that y I warned all future people that if they are coming Germany thinking that they have better security in no job condition..then they are wrong.

2raj
I think you did not understand the post.
In the post I mentioned no where of not being paid ALG.
Better read it first before jumping like an illogical fool without any logical reasoning

@ritrits

well f*** as**... that attacked me personally. Read your fucking post where you go round and round about not getting ALG. What other topic did u cover in your post?

@raj
F--- Y-U....
Well why the fuck it hurts you.
Its a circumstance and I made all aware got it you illogical fool.
I don't need ALG because its never given to someone already in job.

You post is good but u have no basic idea of Germany Work Law,so please visit your Visa office and make it clear.one intresting this is if you leave germanyyou can apply for the refund off money from ALG so its a kind off saving.By the way on off the Replys was right you come here to work you atleast own more that what you do in your country.

>>Well why the fuck it hurts you.

Well by calling me illogical fool, what did u think would do?


>>Its a circumstance and I made all aware got it
you illogical fool.

So fool, why not stand in front of the airports in india and germany and make it more aware.


>>I don't need ALG because its never given to
someone already in job.

thats good. otherwise good riddance

@ramadugu

You dont get your ALG payement back.

@ritrits

Whats your problem and what exactly you want.Simple you worked here for past 2years with the dream of claiming ALG sitting at home after your contract finishes but you did not know that only you can get ALG after you work more than 2years so now you are frustrated.
I did not say you get ALG when you have a job,i said you better find a job and work for more than 2years whatever is the rule and then sit home and claim.
You are the kind of guy who pay medical Insurance and only to claim the money will make yourself sick
Why don't you spend your time looking for a job or packing your things instead of wasting your time here and please don't post such kind of stupid warning messages to take out your frustration.

@raj2001

Seems like you too a fool.
When you don't know the rules better keep your mouth shut.

@ritrits

Please explain the rule what you talking about.

yes we are all fools here even your employer was also a fool who hired you the German system is also fool so better don't waste time and pack up your things and get away from this fools paradise before you also become a fool

@raj

Better get back to your old sarcastic self. Eitherway people start bashing you whatever you write....

Couldn't agree more.

I am amazed at both quality and quantity of garbage India produces and exports to europe in hope of earning some foreign revenue. Instead of displaying any sense of loyalty or gratitude these slumdogs start biting their own masters and denounce their entire country. Despite knowing that by doing so they are creating troubles for their fellow countrymen, who are not at all part of this hatred campaign.

@Akshay

Well slumdogs are better than PIGs. Because a pig can eat even the shit of slumdogs.
You have no identity of your it seems. Since you kept an Asian name.
May be you are a victim of some war and seeking asylum in this country ans that the reason you feel so fortunate that your own country disowned you.

@ritrits

ha ha ha :-) BRAVO...dude, well said, if they have any dignity left....they will never come to this forum again.....

i guess its better to invite like minded people and start a new forum of our own, where we have have more freedom and can raise voice for our rights!! RIGHTS OF AUSSLÄNDER IN GENERAL!

Hating abusing eachother wont generate anything positive .lets make love :-) ..help me in my thread.

and u will never say that "I am lucky to find You" ...because u can generate this luck of ur own again and again.

if you have really time , then please answer in other thread (still open quesions)

-again respect each other, this is not practicing of freedom of speech.
-Dont judge other wrong, becuase you dont know them
-answer only if you can give them +ve reply
I hope you people unerstand and will spend your costly time to solve others issue in this forum.

@deathinc

which thread you are referring to?

@Raj2009

>>ha ha ha BRAVO...dude, well said, if they have any dignity left....they will never come to this forum again.....

I know you had a beef with Akshay, but you told sorry and the topic has ended. But i dont think your last message was worthy of u. There is some ethics in this forum (Akshay excused ;-) ) but Mr Topic starter went too far calling people fools and idiots.


>>i guess its better to invite like minded people and start a new forum of our own, where we have have more freedom and can raise voice for our rights!! RIGHTS OF AUSSLÄNDER IN GENERAL!

Please do. This forum has been existing for years without any problem. But if you are trying to start some Freedom Fighter thing please take it else where. According to Detlef this site is being monitored and such heroic things will surely bring problems.

@raj

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........u r already on my ignore list :-)

@Raj2009

Thnks. feel the same here

@Raj2009
http://www.trust7.com/en/foren/help_needed/need_good_english_german_speaker

I urgently need translator to help me translating some hypnotic patterns.

@ritrits

Are you some Highly Qualified doing PhD research on slum dogs and pigs and their food habits.
Your words shows how much highly qualified and cultured you are.It would be better to use nice words in this forum and we are all happy people like you don't stay in Germany longer and pollute here.
Best wishes for your packup.

@raj2001
Hahahhahaha keep praying for that. amen
And you recognised well..thats y i called u fool.lol

@ritrits
You are a quite annoying fella.. you know that huh ?

So do you think the citizens of 3rd world would just give up the opportunity of working in Germany just because their unemployment benefit cuts from their salaries will not be reimbursed ?
What a sensation.. I guess all foreigners in Germany start to pack to leave Germany after hearing this important news of yours..

Fact is that Germany offers quite good conditions for 3rd World citizens even with the disadvantage you mention here.. keep also in mind that several ABHs give some extra time for ALG and job search in case you become unemployed in your first 2 years of employment in Germany.. so your statement here is not true for all ABHs.. I even remember several cases reported in Trust7..

If other typical immigration countries like Australia, USA, UK and New Zealand offer better conditions for someone with a limited residence permit after he becomes unemployed in his first 2 years of employment in that country then a criticism as mentioned by you would make sense.. otherwise you are talking just non-sense here..

This is Germany.. and this is the way it works.. take it or leave it..

Regards,

Lacrima

ritrits,

You are very fussy.
Could not understand your motives at all.

You raised a point, it was well answered and clarified by many. That's it.

This is a forum to get help & help each other.

So stop sledging and most importantly dont fight using this forum.

Truster

@truster

First of all its a forum so don't u make fuss about whatever I wrote, if you can't digest it you can just keep ur mouth shut.

Its a forum that why, many people will have the query before they leave their home country and take the decision to come abroad to work, because there are many in this forum who were working in their home country and left that job and came here. But, while deciding they did not get the information which I wrote in this discussion.

@lacrima

I think you did not understand the whole motive of the discussion. How many of the people who came were aware about the points I wrote before they came to germany?
Infact most of them even after studying here and taking up employment are still not aware about the points I mentioned. So when they decided to take up job here they did not know about these conditions.

I think no were in the post there is a comparision of what other countries are offering so better stick to the country talked in the discussion rather than trying to compare a negative with other negative. Because may be for you coming abroad was a status.
But most of them work here because of the good work that one can do and to get quality experience.

Better next time if you don't understand the motive of the discussion you too better don't contribute ur useless comments just for the sake of posting here.

@ritrits

Nobody has forbidden you to initiate this topic in this forum. It might be informative for some people. But that doesn't mean that you will keep abusing each and every member in this forum, just because they have an opposite view.

If you think that everybody is gonna keep their mouth shut while you keep singing to your tune, then you are pathetically mistaken my friend.

Learn to control yourself.

Hi ritris,

If I would have been outside of Germany, thinking to come here, then I would have changed my mind after reading your post. But it is good that I am already here.


Germany is a country with lots of bureaucracy and due to this people just follow what is written in books. People in Ausländerbehörde are sitting in their comfort seats and are not always updated with the new changes in the laws. This is the reason that we have to suffer many times.

When a person leaves his country and plans to migrate to some other land, its a bold and ambitious decision. This also proves that you are smarter than lot of other people.

I am in this country since last 8 years and like many others have my own set of experiences. Based on that I would like to suggest you and all others to "be smart" in Germany. Dont take what beamter is saying, but try to verify it on your own or try to seek some help from a specialist.

One of my friend did his masters (in English) from here and then could not find job immediately. Due to some misunderstanding the lady in Ausländerbehörde got angry on him and refused to extend his visa and told that him that he has to return back and she will not extend his visa in any case. He was very depressed as he did not wanted to return but had no options. By chance, he met me just 1 week before leaving. I told him that she has the authority to reject your request but there are some laws in this country. A person who has done his master in IT has the right to stay here for one year and search for job. I referred him to one lawyer from Trust7 and finally he got Visa and now he is doing job since last 2.5 years.

In short, there are laws and are very good. You just need to find them. I have seen many cases, which seemed to have no hope but were able to find solution.

Abut ALG, in my knowledge, if a person was employed for 2 or more years, then he can avail the ALG I for 1 year. And this means that Ausläenderbehörde will have to give Job search visa for this time. If they try to make some stories or if arbeitsamt try to play games, then simply check with a lawyer. This will cost 100 € or less but then it is worth it.

There is a way in which this country works. We are not used to many of its ways, and they seem weird to us, but our efforts should be to learn the rules of the game and then play smartly. If you can understand and implement what I wrote, then you will notice that Germany is one of the best countries to live. US, UK, Canada, or Australia does not comes close to it. There are some problems, but they are not difficult to overcome.

I have seen people living here since last 25 years and complaining about everything here. But there are also people who integrated well and enjoy the culture and system.

So my suggestion to all is to "be smarter" and look for solutions.

@nishu09

Regarding the incident that you said, it was possible even through lawyer because it was written in the rule book that a student is elligible to get a 1 year job search visa, else even the lawyer also could not had done anything.


And regarding giving visa without job there is no rule anywhere, because the immigraction act clearly states a visa can be given if a concreate job offer exist. SO even the smarter of the smartest can't do anything in this because there is no where written that a job search visa should be given to someone who was working and became jobless.



If we compare a -ve thing with something more -ve(like US,UK,Canada) it will definetly look better thats obvious. but that does not mena the less negative is right.

Regarding going to a lawyer thats most of the foreigner would like to avoid and not go into a legal battle with any govt. department.

A lawyer can only get the things done if there exist legal clause.
And for the subject I wrote in the post there exist no legal clause(said by a lawyer)

So in short even if someone after knowing the rules decide to go to a particular country then his/her mind is prepared.

And regarding the bureaucracy I have one thing:

All the people so far who gave their comments in this post are foreigners and no one ever accepted that legally thats not the right law/rule (If something is law it don't necessarily means its right, but only thing is one is bound to follow as there is no alternative)

Comments from my German friends and Colleges when they came to know about what I wrote in this post:

"Its shame on our bureaucracy"

So only one conclusion comes that all the people who gave their comment and not for a single time said that is wrong, they are so over burdened and feel so indebted that Germany allowed them to work and reside/settle here, that they have forgotten to even accept the wrong as WRONG.I think where ever we go on this world we should atleast not forget the difference between right and wrong.

Atleast you accepted that by reading this post people will decide accordingly. And one thing those people who go to the US,UK,Canada or other countries are never aware about the laws/right until they reach there, and by then its late.

@ritrits

This is true that if something is not in law then even lawyer can also not do anything. But still sometimes you can change your strategy and approach. I don't know if you know this that when we come from India, we can get out Indian driving license converted to German, only by passing the theory and practical, without any compulsion to attend the classes. This saves lot of time and money. But the law allows 3 years to do this after that one has to apply fresh. In my case, I applied after 4 years. My application was rejected but I still tried and then my application was accepted. I was new in this town and I knew no one here. I was myself surprised when I got the acceptance letter but this was lesson for me to know that its not so bad here. Some people have heart and are ready to listen and help you.

The incident about my friend which I mentioned was possible only through lawyer. Because it is sometime useless to argue with Foreign office employees. They will get more irritated.

But one internal information is that they are afraid of dealing with lawyers. Reason, when a lawyer send them something they have to properly go through lot of laws and books before replying to lawyer. But they also know the fact that not everyone goes to lawyer and may be not every lawyer is good to present the case.

Like you have written, a foreigner has to work minimum 2 years for becoming eligible to start getting ALG I. This is true. Which means if somebody loses job after 1.5 years or even 1.11 years, then he will not get ALG I, but once this limit has crossed, meaning if he has contributed to unemployment benefit for 24 months, then this person is entitled to get ALG-I for 1 year. For this he should get Visa. He will not get for 1 year, but for 3 months, but this will be extended every time, and this can go for 1 year. This law we cannot find easily but a lawyer dealing with such issues should be knowing this. I knew this since a long time but if something has changed in past few years then I don't know.

You are right the wrong is wrong but it is everywhere. There is no place with everything right. Everywhere, some or the other thing is wrong.

But your experience is yours. Anyone who has not gone through your situation may not understand you completely. Every one has different experience.

I have also heard these comments "Its shame on our bureaucracy" from my German colleagues but my answer to them is that this is why this country is still doing well. Bureaucracy is very irritating and makes lots of processes slow and I haaaaaaate it :-) but still I feel that because of it, I have been able to raise my voice at many instances.

People here (even myself) not feel indebted, but I think that everyone here, in initial years had a temptation to leave and go to US or UK, but somehow they got settled here and started getting used to the system, learned how to deal with it and somehow started liking it.

My postings are getting very long, I want to avoid it because it could become boring for others.

Best of luck and keep posting if you have some other issues or problems. This forum have some very good people who try to help solve the problems and confusions.

Take Care

@ritrits

To cut a long story short, lets assume you knew the followings things about german system before coming here:

1. You would pay Arbeitlosenversicherung and would never get the benefits (forget 2 years limit)

2. You would pay Rentenversicherung and would never get the benefits (not even after 67)

Do you really think it would have changed your mind? This question is open to all forum members, but please answer honestly.

It is not a choice between good and bad but rather between bad and worst.

To be honest I think no one cares if they don't get ALG or Pension back..but getting a job would be a high priority initially.

When some one has to pay the mandatory taxes, we are not questioning about it.for eg: solidarity fund etc..they are part of the package.

Even worse is the PhDs/Students paying Arbeitslos insurance will never get the ALG if they go back or stay here without a work permit.

Such things has to be challenged in courts to amend the laws. May be they need attention.
Either way the outcome must be to get the insurance paid back or get visa/ALG.

@nishu09

First of all I would like to correct you that to be elligible for ALG one don't need to work 2 years,even if one have worked 1 year (which is min)one is entitled to get 6 months ALG.

But one thing depends from Abreitsamt to Arbeitsamt that some Arbeitsamt need the Visa to be company independent some don't emphasis on that.

Yes I am aware about the Licence and also that the Indian licence should had been issued before entering Germany.

Well this post was for the informaiton of someone new coming to Germany and not my personal problem, luckily I am not in that problem, but yes a friend of mine was. But then I thought to make all aware because still there are many who are in Germany since many years, still not aware about it since they are lucky, that they did not come under that situation and I hope they never come in future too.

@akshay

Honestly speaking when one get a job one don't bother much because economic crisis don't occur frequently so people don't loose job so easily or companies don't close their dept. so often, but if one knows the circumstances then one's mind is prepared for that.

Do black labour - this way you dont pay taxes,social insurance, solidarity etc.. U get the benefit of every single cent you earn.

OR

if you have the guts like the group "Hells Angels" , then openly defy the government and dont pay any taxes or anything else.

@Raj @ritrits
I am in the same situation right now. My Visa is company dependent, so the thing is that, and i think i can agree with ritrits but not with raj, is that, we dont want to get money for free if we are unemployed.
At least, I dont want to pay an insurrance that doesnt covers me. Is like if I buy a car insurance, and then I have an accident and the people of the insurance says to me "ohh no we cannot help you because you are not a UE member". So I rather go whithout paying insurance.
In my case I am paying 200EUR per month for the uneployment insurance, so I rather save that by myself and If I lose my job, I just go back to my country with the 200 EUR I save every month.

but is it posible some how not to pay that?
I mean, money for free for unemployement? I dont care, I dont want it, in my country you loose the job and then you have to get another one otherwise you dont eat for the next months. What I dont want is to pay for something which I dont have the right to use.

It is mandatory as far as I know...you can not escape to pay for arbeitlos insurance. I never have heard of somebody who did so. You find this problem heavy discussed here also on diferent links. The problem is found as "Stuck between Auslaenderbehoerd and Arbeitsagentur"

Very useful:

http://www.trust7.com/en/foren/start_up/registration_for_arbeitlosgeld/re_registration_for_arbeitlosgeld__2

wow this is an old thread! I just want to say that the best you can do is to avoid to get unemployed while having a visa bound to the arbeitsamt. and avoid to become unemployed. to be unemployed in germany is not only a nightmare for us "foreigners" but also for native germans. try to stay as far as you can from the arbeitsamt, that's my advice.

@raj2001

Your comments are too scary..

You sound more like saying..
-we are cheap labour (not sure about you..but thats not me and dozens more people I know)
-thank you for selling us an insurance that does not cover the cause for which it is sold
-go back to your country, if you feel like criticizing something and this way never hope for an improvement and also never try for it.."never criticize.. accept everything"
-Everything is perfect here. All papers=job done. Go through stories of trust7 only.

I agree that there are many plus points in living in Germany but that never mean we should ignore all minuses. World and Germany won't improve that way. At least do not go so aggressive against someone who utters few words against system.