Hi all,

Most of the previous discussions about the salary threshold for being a high qualified person were talking about 84 k€. I have also seen one thread talking about 93 k€, does anybody have more information on that topic, is it 84 k€ or more??

Thanks,

W.

I have one more question if you don't mind, does anybody have any experience going to the Ausländerbehörde with an employment contract written in english? Do they deal with contracts in english or one has to have it written in german.

Thanks again,

W.

Hi W,

The law states that to be qualified as Highly Qualified person one has to earn double the amount required to go for private krankenversicherung. So people were talking about 84k. But the government has changed the slab of goin to private krankenversicherung by a few thousand euros. So now the new limit has shot upto 92k+.
Hope this helps

Cheers
Rajesh

1. About the salary it's something around 90K, per new regulation
2. I think they're gonna kick you a** out :-) They really don't like it, even speaking in English is sometimes prohibited. I know there are some exceptions, but I had big problems at the Ausländerbehörde at the beginning when I was going and speaking in English, I was getting yelled at by the woman who was dealing with my case, yelling *in English* that I couldn't talk to her in English as it is an official place. I was like "damn, if I'm not supposed to speak English, then you don't and that means you're speaking in German and I'm understanding you... you sure I'm not speaking German like you're doing at the moment?" :-) But it was one of the reason I did my best to learn German.

D.

Hi W,

Since we are in Germany the official language is German and you have to convert all the documents into German if you are going to some government offices.

By the way almost all companies in germany will give the main contract only in german and an additional English contract is given to the employer only in case he asks for it or they want the employee to understand fully what is written in the contract.

I dont think this is fair anyway to expect the people in government offices to understand english when even well educated germans are not comfortable in dealing with english.

Cheers
Rajesh

Hi Nobody,

You are saying "around 90K €", do you know from where can I get a definitive figure?

Regarding my second question it is not about speaking in English at the Ausländerbehörde, but it is about going with an employment contract written in english. My new employer is not german, he is EU with a company registered in Germany!!

By the way I didn't get what you mean with "kick you a** out", these ** can hold lots of meanings!!!

Anyway thanks to both of you "Raj and Nobody" for your quich answers.

W.

Hi Wael,

After searching in the internet i have found out that inorder to move into Private versicherung a person should have a annual brutto salary of 46,800 or 3900 per month.
So 46,800 *2 = 92k+.

Maybe you yourself can search with 'Obergrenze
für privat krankenversicherung' and will come up with number of hits.

But what is true is that the limit is more than 92K+. There is no changing that.

cheers
Rajesh

Hi Wael,
EU or not!!!, when you do business in germany everything should be in german. So in order to save yourself and your company the time and heartburns request your employer to make the contract in german. Easy solution.

Cheers
Rajesh

Is it 84K or 92K €, I am getting above 84 but below 92K. Pls confirm if anyone knows.

But i have not yet decided of going to auslanderbehörde for PR in Jan 2005 or later.

Regards, Asian

Hi Asian,

It seems the only way to confirm the number will be to have a visit to the Ausländerbehörde and ask. At the moment I am thinking about going there beginning of next week, if you tell me your email address I can keep you updated.
Of course I will be also publishing any useful info on this forum.

Regards,
W.

Although German is the official language, Is it reasonable to expect a foreigner who has been here for just 1 month to speak German at ABH?

I don't think that the officials in my home country asks the visitors to speak in our mother tongue! ABH is where foreigners come not the locals.

I have no chance with this 92k+ requirement!

Sun

Hi sun,
What you have to understand is, in reality, this is how german governemnt offices work. No point blaming them anyway.

Sorry to hear that you are not different from the rest of us here.

Cheers
Rajesh

I totally agree with 'Sun'. That is a place for foreigners and do not know how are they expecting everyone to speak german. I had enough problems when i landed here. As I am the only foreigner in my workplace none of my colleagues were familiar with the ABH formalities and i had to do everything on my own. They made me to make frequent trips unnecessarily to get things done and shouted at me few times for speaking english and not speaking german. That was the bitter most experience and that made to me not to settle down here. Today i can speak german very well, but i dont have any work with ABH and i dont want to visit that place. That is the reason i have not yet decided to go for PR.

Regards, Asian

dear friends ,

I am totall disappointed at the response by our gurus here.

The 93 K is not correct it is infact 84K only.

The diffrence is somewhat complecated.

as per the law it is twice the earning ceiling of statutary health insurance scheme which is different than the income required to take private insurance.

So it is 84K or nearly 3480per month

doppelten beitragbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen krankenversicherung is 3480Euro

Hello Asian,

The above discussions point to a particular fact
1. Be self reliant and not expect anything from others.
2. Do some research on what life will be like in the place where one is goin to live.
3. Pitfalls are everywhere and even in our own country. So a few bad experiences should not cloud the greater things that we can achieve here.

Also your reasons for not taking PR is downright silly to me. Getting a PR will open up a few more opportunities here. There is no gain without pain dude. Grab the chance with both hands when it presents itself.

Cheers
Rajesh

Final information in this regard.This info should have been coming from our experts here!

Beitragsbemessungsgrenze 2005

Die Bemessungsgrenze in der Krankenversicherung beträgt 2005

42.300 € p.a. bzw. 3.525 € monatlich,

bis zu diesem Einkommen werden maximal Beiträge in der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung berechnet. Die Höhe des Beitrages ist abhängig von der Höhe des Beitragssatzes Ihrer gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung.



Für einen Wechsel in die private Krankenversicherung ist die

Versicherungspflichtgrenze (Jahresarbeitsentgeltgrenze) relevant; sie beträgt 2005

46.800 € p.a. bzw. 3.900 € monatlich

Gesetzlich krankenversicherte Arbeitnehmer können erstmalig zum Ende des Kalenderjahres, in welchem die Pflichtgrenze überschritten wird, in die Privatkrankenversicherung wechseln.

Hi,

I have also done some search on that topic, my findings are fully compatible with the above results.
There are two figures in this topic:
1. Pflichtversicherungsgrenze 2005 = 46800
2. Beitragsbemessungsgrenze 2005 = 42300

The law is talking about "Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung" which seems to be the 42300 number.

Ok, >84600 means a high qualified person.

W.

You're correctly right Wael, our bad.

D.

Hi Wael,
Thanks for the info. I hereby withdraw the suggestions i made before.

Cheers
Rajesh

Nobody, Raj,

Thanks also to both of you. One should not hesitate to say his point of view, that's why it is called "a discussion forum"

Here all of us are not Beamters, sharing what we know is the best way to come to good conclusions.

W.

A lot of talk has been made about the level of €84000. It is valid only for those has an exceptionally high profile (like a very promising professor at a university who can speak 3 languages perfectly, etc)

I am also a good educated Mechanical engineer but not at that level: I aim to find a job at a level of 51.000€/year. So after Jan1, 2005 will I be able to make it with €51.000, I wonder...

As far as I can see at the job search sites like Jobpilot.de, I could say that theres a great demand towards Mechanical Engineers.

Now if I managed to find a suitable job and make a contract with an Employer who would agree on a €51.000/year salary, could I easily get a workpermit (or Arbeitsgenehmigung, aufenthaltstitel, whatever you may call it), thats the crucial question.

I mean when I go to the Ausländerbehörde, could they deny my application simply by saying this:
"No you can never get a workpermit as you are able to get only €51.000, not €84.000 as it is stated in the new law"?

Thanks

Hi aurora,

I am not the best one to answer this question but I will try to use my limited experience. I think you can try to get an Aufenhaltserlaubnis but your company has to justify why is it employing a non DE/EU person.

Regarding the salary threshold, I think with the new law there is no threshold. The 84 Keuro threshold is to get a Permenant residence in one go.

I am sure other people in this forum will be able to give you a more certain idea.

Regards,

W.

After I have post my latest message, I have eagerly made a study on the new law @ www.aufenthaltstitel.de, just to have a clear idea and after that I can very confidently
say that you are right in your statement :"you can try to get an Aufenhaltserlaubnis but your company has to justify why is it employing a non DE/EU person" Yeah! Thats it, Im sure. they do not impose a salary number but only the condition: "A non-EU citizen is allowed only for those jobs for that no other EU-citizen could be found" As simple as that.

Just for completeness I attach the related section of the new law that I ve read at internet:

(Quelle: www.aufenthaltstitel.de)

(1) Ein Aufenthaltstitel, der einem Ausländer die Ausübung einer Beschäftigung erlaubt, kann nur mit Zustimmung der Bundesagentur für Arbeit erteilt werden, soweit durch Rechtsverordnung nicht etwas anderes bestimmt ist. Die Zustimmung kann erteilt werden, wenn dies in zwischenstaatlichen Vereinbarungen, durch ein Gesetz oder durch Rechtsverordnung bestimmt ist.
(2) Die Bundesagentur für Arbeit kann der Erteilung einer Aufenthaltserlaubnis zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung nach § 18 zustimmen, wenn
1.
a) sich durch die Beschäftigung von Ausländern nachteilige Auswirkungen auf den Arbeitsmarkt, insbesondere hinsichtlich der Beschäftigungsstruktur, der Regionen und der Wirtschaftszweige, nicht ergeben,
b) für die Beschäftigung deutsche Arbeitnehmer sowie Ausländer, die diesen hinsichtlich der Arbeitsaufnahme rechtlich gleichgestellt sind oder andere Ausländer, die nach dem Recht der Europäischen Union einen Anspruch auf vorrangigen Zugang zum Arbeitsmarkt haben, nicht zur Verfügung stehen oder
2. sie durch Prüfung nach Satz 1 Nr. 1 Buchstabe a und b für einzelne Berufsgruppen oder für einzelne Wirtschaftszweige festgestellt hat, dass die Besetzung der offenen Stellen mit ausländischen Bewerbern arbeitsmarkt- und integrationspolitisch verantwortbar ist,
und der Ausländer nicht zu ungünstigeren Arbeitsbedingungen als vergleichbare deutsche Arbeitnehmer beschäftigt wird. Für die Beschäftigung stehen deutsche Arbeitnehmer und diesen gleichgestellte Ausländer auch dann zur Verfügung, wenn sie nur mit Förderung der Agentur für Arbeit vermittelt werden können. Der Arbeitgeber, bei dem ein Ausländer beschäftigt werden soll, der dafür eine Zustimmung benötigt, hat der Bundesagentur für Arbeit Auskunft über Arbeitsentgelt, Arbeitszeiten und sonstige Arbeitsbedingungen zu erteilen.

>Yeah! Thats it, Im sure. they do not impose a >salary number but only the condition: "A non-EU >citizen is allowed only for those jobs for that >no other EU-citizen could be found" As simple as >that.


Oh boy, I wouldnt call this condition "simple", sometimes it can be really a pain in ass, if the abh/aa decides to search for an available EU person for 3 months before giving the permit.

Good luck

Lacrima

PS: I saw a similar question in a Turkish discussion forum (Mechanical Engineer, 51K etc) are you the same guy ? by the way..