Dear all,

It's my first post here.

I am seeking for a legal advice regarding the discrimination issue I faced when I was denied entry to a discotheque in Würzburg on two separate occasions due to my brown skin color. I am male (33) and I am a student at the university.

First time, I was rejected the entrance on Saturday 8th August 2009. The doorkeepers showed hatred to me and didn't let me in without giving any reason. Later, they pretended that dress-code was an issue. But clearly it was not because I was dressing properly when compared to those who got the entry to the club. I went to Police but they didn't file my complaint regarding discrimination. Then I wrote an email to the owners of the discotheque and complained about the racial discrimination. I got a reply from the owners who apologized for the act but failed to disprove my accusation about the discrimination act. They wrote that next time they would welcome me in the club. I wrote another email to the club owners with several questions, but they didn't reply my email, yet.

I decided to give this club a second shot on last Saturday 15th August 2009, this time I wore a suit. But again I was rejected an entry because one of the staff members recognized my face from the picture I had sent along with the email I wrote to the club owners. Their behavior was utterly disrespectful. Clearly, I was again being discriminated due to my skin color while others were freely let in. The bouncers at the entrance were rude and pushed me away. It was very humiliating being singled out in the crowd. I was not drunk, I didn't shout and I was polite, but this didn't affect them. I decided to raise my voice against the discrimination in a peaceful manner.

As a protest, I stood on the road in front of the discotheque and held a sign "Say No to Discrimination". I got a fair bit of support from
the people passing by in terms of conversations, no slogans or something else. But the persons in charge of the club called the Police.

Instead of filing my complaint against the club or resolving the matter in a peaceful way, the Police took me to the police station and locked me up in the jail. After 4-5 hours, I was then released.

Now, I am seriously upset by the whole event due to several reasons. I was discriminated on racial grounds by the same discotheque on two occasions. The Police didn't file my complaint two times. My peaceful protest was disallowed and instead I was locked up in the jail for few hours as if I was a criminal.

I have checked some websites and found there are indeed some laws in Germany for discrimination issues. I have even read about a similar case in Oldenburg in 2008, where the court gave an order against a discotheque and asked its owners to pay compensation to the person who was discriminated at the entrance.

Please help me with the information about how I can proceed this case on the legal basis or please send any information that you think can be useful in this regard.

Thank you.
Peace.

Mr. Enigma
I am sure you are a Indian and i am myself an India with brown skin living here for a long time also frequently going to all Discotheque and clubs but i myself never faced such problem.
My friend this is really not an issue of the skin color or race but what counts is the complete personality how you look.The guys who are standing at the entrance are experienced and they know what kind of crowd should be allowed,they want people with money and personality both counts.
Believe me you find lots of dark skinned men and women in the discotheque.I see lots of Africans and many from Brazil.
If they don't allow you then just walk away no need to complain or stand outside with a banner making a fool of yourself,its people like you bring bad image to other Indians.I know most Indians go to Discotheque to see more flesh and stand doing nothing like dumb ass and some drink too much and get out of control.
I would suggest first make up your personality so you overall look better,wearing a suit or branded clothes does not make up your personality,if you have a good personality then you can sure find a girl and if you have a girl then you can enter any discotheque without any problem.
After reading your post i can say you will not be even allowed to enter a decent discotheque in India,i am sure you never been to one there.
If you think that going legal you can get huge compensation then its just waste of time and making a fool of yourself.
Still have doubts then put up your pic here in this forum and first get your personality rating from your fellow Indians then shout on racism and skin color.

@enigma

What nonsense!! Is there a limit you won't cross, just to get laid?

A discotheque is not a charity where every Tom, Dick and Harry can enter and try to pick-up chicks.

However, Germany is a goldmine of single-chicks. Try to change your appearance and behavior and in no time your would be upto your neck in *****.

@raj2001

Cool down man. No need to be angry. May be you are right what you said about Indians. But sorry, I am NOT an Indian. Full stop. But I do have many good Indian friends.

Good that you were never stopped at the entrance. For me it was the first time too. I wish you good luck in the future.

Perhaps, you are right, it could be my personality which they didn't like. But I am not looking here for personality rating, rather a legal advice for discrimination.

@akshay

thanks for your message.

Dear Enigma,

maybe there are some kind of 'Student Union' at your university where you can get advise. Maybe there are some others who made similar experiences with this special discotheque and you can do something together.

You should contact a lawyer and ask for the chances of filing a case.

You can also try to get in contact to a local newspaper.

It is always hard for people who do not know each other personally to give good advice. I hope you have some friends over there in Würzburg to discuss the case.

I can understand that you are angry and if I would be in your shoes I would also try to get 'Satisfaction'.

What ever you do... good luck!

Detlef

Cheers for the useful information, Detlef. I am definitely looking for a lawyer.

@enigma - too bad you are not an Indian. We Indians are only good at rating and gudging other Indians.
But anyway, more power to you. Have yourself heard...
;-)

I suggest you to take this issue to the newspaper or magzien and tell your story about this disco with all clues u have.They will print it and it will make a bad reputation of disco.
lawyer wont work ,u r student with limited money they are having big guns to fight ,evenif they loose they will just say it was bouncer fault and they have removed him.
-----------
I all the time force others here to get out from their comfort zone and make germans as thier friends.with them u can go to disco and whatever the fuck u want.


First u have to understand the concept -----> Instead of value taker ---> u become value giver ----> u will be welcomed in every society--->

Are u the person who give value to others or who takes value( dont talk here shit like ...Im SAP consultant i drive porsche,I fly with first class ,Im terminator the masterbator)

second u have to analize what u r doing till now and what u r getting till now.

Now u have analize what u want in future .....>

Now u have to analize what u need to do to get what u want in future.

Now u have to analize what are the changes u need to make in urself to get what u want.

Now u have to be prepare to leave ur comfrot zone and work on the things u need to change.

I just give u the map u have to fill it by urself because every one has his limits,thinking nd time..
-----------

Just a quick sol for the next time if u face something like that..

Always smile ...have a extremely positive attitude (evenif they discriminate dont notice it)

Say common man i came here from 6000km to see ur disco...
I even buy new shirt ,shoes ,pants just for ur disco ...bla bla bla ...

he is not smiling ...man ur smile fall on the floor just u take it from the floor and put it on his face .ok nice to talk to u
ask his name and continue the conversation with using his name.( calling person with his name give a positive impact on that person)
and keep on keep on smile playful manner
If no girl is issue, take a girl from outside and go with her.
or say common man if i cant go in i cant get girls and then again i need to masterbate at home by downloading pornos...(that the reallity and be honest about it but in a very playful way)
u made them laugh , its more likely u will go inside,,,rather than generating haterd and discrimination and cry and going to lawywer

now u have to be good in german as he wont understand english and a positive attitude.

Enigma,

I have lived in Germany for quite a while, I have a German wife and once may years ago, I faced the same problem. It was racism but well not much you can do about it, in other clubs i never experienced the same. I notice that if you go to the higher end clubs this never happens but well the more student type places it does seem to happen.
A club is a private establishment, they can regulate who they want to let in or not.

Standing on the road and creating a public disorder is not going to help, the cops took you in so that you would cool off and then let you go. Remmber if you get charged of any offence (whether you think it is deserved or not) it may affect your visa status.

There are many clubs in Germny, you will find one that is not intimdating or racially abusive and then you will enjoy it more.

I will even let you into a lil story, when this happened to me, I was mad about it too. What i did though was to pay almost 1000DM as a yearly charge and got myself a membership at a very prestigious noght club. i used to sponsor loads of guests and even had priority entry. And one day guess what i was going in when i recognised one of the bouncers, was the same guy who stopped me in the other club. I could see from his face that he was trying to place me but just couldnt. I did though and at an opportune moment when the club co owner was in earshot i discussed my "case" with him and he completely went pale when he realised who i was, I asked him point blank why he thought i was so undesirable at the other club and he swore blind that he did not know why he was just following orders. I told him that i didnt think so and that he had stopped me without even asking for instructions.
I went on to mention that i hoped he was not planning the same in this club. By this time the co-owner was all hot and bothered and kept trying to get me to go to the bar for some "free drnks"
My bar bill that night was so low inspite of champagne almost free flowing.
I never saw that bouncer again and i suspect (hope) i know why ;-) (Ahh revenge is a dish served cold and yummy, sigh... sounds like i will burn in hell again)

Your day will come even if it isnt with these guys, one day you will graduate, get a great job and drive a porsche (notice something against porsche drivers in this forum, wonder why). You will have a great life and that stupid bouncer will flit from club to club living just above the poverty line until some drunk punter puts a knife in him and ends his misery.

Germany still has a bit of racism in it, but not a lot and in terms of hot chicks and all that jazz, i am sure you will figure that all out yourself. However dont be disheatend by comments here, going to a nightlub does not mean you are in a brothel. You can do lots of fun stuff and if you want to chase a few nice girls then by all means do so. If anyone on here disapproves that's their problem. Not yours. I met someone in a nightclub and if i hadnt , my life would not be the same.

You need to let it go and concntrate on your studies, get a great job and one day follow that bouncer to the autobahn and while his old astra wheezes down the autobahn , use your shiny new sports car to run a few rings around him and then make him eat dirt as you roar away into the sunset.

Just let go of the anger, in a few days you will realise it is not worth it.

Good luck with your studies

@ Enigma

I know its hard to swallow such things but its quite normal in Germany as they have there own House Rules.Not only Disco's, couple of my friends wanted to join a fitness centre and they said its full...the next day i saw new german people joining...

But still if you want to file a case against them then go to ASTA people in your University. There you have a free lawyer for you or get advice from them

Good luck !!!

@lselondon

Now that is what i call a very good advice. cheers

Iselondon,

Excellent thought provoking post.
Lot to learn from it..

Hi,
Take it in this way: -
If the disco didn't allow to to enter due to their bullshit feelings, go for another one and it might work you. There are lots of disco centres in germany where they look for money as the clubs are always hungry for money and don't think that they are very rich, now these people are getting poorer. Also think of the disco which rejected you, the owner, people inside it must be real ulgy white pigs with whom it is better not to dance at all.

Hope this preaching helps you !!!

@lselondon

Very nice and thoughtful post...I wish we had more people like you in this forum.

@enigma

Don't let your sex-life depend at the mercy of this low-life bouncers. Explore new avenues, there is no shorted of willing chicks out there.

Maybe a female member in this forum can spare some tips for our friend enigma?

@Akshay

ha ha ha.........dude its always fun to read your opinions.........we need more people like you :-)

damn how stupid people can be like lselondon

Instead getting to the core level of problem he ask him to brag about car nd job and fuck with that bouncer who in reallity can break both of ur jaws in one on one...

seriously thank god i am not in touch in reallity with lame people like u who can give such shit advices braging about money and job but in reallity remain chods as ever.

Anyhow I handle the things quite unconventional way with strange logics..my typical example i give my german friends to get girls .....like this......
------------my tip for him-------------
Go direkt motherfuckers like a sledge hammer instead of going indirekt. like penis gose direkt in pussy but not first wrapped around ur thighs and then go indirekt...they laugh but understand the concept and what i mean.
-------------
I say again u need to work on ur core and u nver need money ,car job for respect and for getting girls ....

my second strange tip for him.

My second strange logic ....what i learnd from streets dogs in India?????

A dog dont giveup untill he gets the bitch to bang nomatter how many days and night passes and he try try try try again and again.
The sameway u need to try again and again (with a follwing change of abandance mentallity-->u dont need to stick to one if things r not going further).

haha i hope people dont think im crazy ...if they

do then I dont give a fuck --->thats one more thing u also need to learn (though its quite tough)

I deathinc think you should watch your pornographic language ;-). I dont think this is the forum but maybe for an adult entertainment forum.

hahaha banging chicks ,drinking ,clubing are gods act ....

ppl think like it will work....

common my sweet bau engineer go and get the girl :-)

Well meet me once this 100kg muscle pack dude will throw u in front of girls ..and this is how ppl get out of their comfort zone.

Dear Deathinc,

when you learn to speak english, we can discuss the matter, till then enjoy being a waiter or labourer. ;-)

Akshay, Raj, Truster .

Many thanks for your kind words. I only saw it now when I logged in to the forum after a long time.

They say all publicity is good publicity and on that basis I am going to even accept the criticism from the guy who was abusive whose nic is death. If only i could really understand what he was trying to say , it would be better but hey thats life;-)

I hope Enigma survived his moment of awakening into the real world and is wiser for it , no doubt all our good wishes will remain with him.

@ Raj2001 and Akshay,

I am very saddened by reading to your comments.

On one side they reflect some kind of arrogance and on the other side they underline the inherent timidness. The weekness to find mistake in yourselves always and not to protest.
Every self respecting man will feel bad at this behaviour.I do not see the reason that you rubbished this guy saying all the hypothetical nonsense of him being indian and so on...
Remember Gandhi! This is what Indians are about ,If he would not have protested two big nations would still be under chains.

To be integrated in a society doesnot mean that you have to lick their asses and demean your own country everytime. I am writing this time just after feeling disgusted after reading your comments on other topics also.

The good thing about germany is that if you are right and law is on side,you can protest and get the guilty punished.

My vote goes to this poor guy.

Regards

Havehope

@Havehope

This topic has long been inactive for some good reasons. Are you in habit of digging graves?

....Remember Gandhi! This is what Indians are about ,If he would not have protested two big nations would still be under chains....

As a matter of fact it is three nations and two of them are at each others throat. Only a moron would attribute these events to Gandhi. Aftermath of World-War-II gave independence to many countries, India being just one of them. The credit, if at all goes to NSDAP.

...To be integrated in a society does not mean that you have to lick their asses and demean your own country everytime....

Nobody is licking asses and demeaning India. This poor guy "enigma" just wants to flirt with chicks and get laid, which of course he thinks is his birthright.

However, a discotheque is not a brothel. To be allowed to enter you have to be accordingly dressed and have a pleasant personality. It is not a place for ugly or sordidly dressed people. It has nothing to do with being an Indian.

If I am the owner of a discotheque then I would make sure that only beautiful chicks in sexy outfit can enter my discotheque. Why do you think I should allow fat-and-ugly chicks enter my discotheque and scare the customers?

@Havehope

All trust7 members who are followers of Gandhi let us protest and sit outside the discotheque with poor enigma and start discotheque Satyagraha also enigma will go on hunger strike till he is not allowed to enter the disco and get laid with one of the chicks.

raj2001, Akshay,

Well done boyz.. congratulations
You are the best sarcasts of Trust7 forum for the year 2009..

Keep up your good work and be the Winners for 2010 as well. Good luck.

HI Enigma,

yes this happens not too seldom in Germany and many other countries(including India).

This happened to me several years back as I used to study in Berlin. I was not allowed to enter a pub and there could be many reasons for it:

1. I was not appropriately dressed when I look back to that time. I learnt over the years how important this is when you go out.

2. I was in a group of 4 people and all of them INdian guys. This makes the door keepers wary of trouble.

3. Its also possible that the door keeper just doesnt like you for what soever reason but you can hardly do anything against it.

Had it been the US or UK where litigation firms specialize in racial profiling, things would have been probably different.

I would suggest that next time take more care of your dressing up, avoid going in male groups or indian groups and if still someone doesnt let you go in, the place just doesnt deserve your money. Just go to the next place instead of demonstrating in front of the place (for which you need special permission actually)

This happens in India as well. Go to a decent disco in a nice hotel, they would decide whom to let go in and whom not.

Not sure about the other guy, but Akshay is known to develop verbal diarrhea the moment the term 'India' is got into play.The guy reeks of extreme inferiority complex and is extremely disillusioned.

Wouldn't be surprised if he was subject to a 1000 lashes during his last visit there ;).

Cheers

@khopdee

I couldn't agree more

@Akshay

It s very much ok if you cannot appreciate the underline quality of showing your backbones when you see any kind of unjustice is done.

What i didn't digest is the fact whta gave you the impression and info that Enigma was poorly dressed and wanted to enter disco for a cheap skin show or even thinking of a disco as a brothel.How could you think of these things without being given this info from Enigma.
By the way these thinks may be coming from your own hidden complexes which by writing here you live in world of denials.
You seem to be an intelligent guy but putting your energies in the negative directions .
Don't get spiked up by your so called supporters like Raj 2001 and put your selves as a case of negative ,arcid personality who is really suffering from some complex that force him to have these views (i am not sure that these are your views also ,i think you just write them to satisfy your own infriority complexes)that everything in his own country is bad or with his own country men is bad and everything in a developed country is right8even if its extreme right).
Please grow up and change.


Regards

I am not supporting anyone here but i would say its bullshit by protesting and calling Racism or Human rights for such things and making it a big issue.
I agree with what jivankitalaash wrote the same rules goes if you go to some discotheques in India.You guys read the discussion at toytown
http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=139189

so there are Irish.British and many white skinned who were denied entry to discotheques and some even thrown out so this has nothing to do with skin color just calm down and be happy with your skin color.
I would say it is only we Indians who for every small things bring up racism and skin color maybe because of our history and culture with north and south Indian but look at those Africans who are happy with their skin colour no complaints no protest and keep smiling when they are call N**** also they flaunt with girls have no problem entering discotheques and they get the best German chicks because they have the attitude and personality that's simple.

Dear Raj2001,

Its not a question if it was a racism or not. We can leave it to the judgement of Enigma.But I objected to the way someone tried to ridicule him and attacked him for even complaining.

If Enigma felt bad he has all the rights to complain.If someone doesn't feel it worth then the best he can do is to ignore or write some decent words to cool him down.

Again what happens in India is not a issue here.

Why even to bring india and Indians in these conversations.

Take care.

Regards

Enigma started this topic with title "Legal advice needed for racial discrimination".He said "discriminated due to my skin color" and "As a protest, I stood on the road in front of the discotheque and held a sign"
So the first thing is this guy should know there is no racial discrimination and protesting is not the way to go with this.
Now finally where is this guy,he just vanished after starting this topic and never responded just sitting and having fun reading what others write

Enigma started this topic with title "Legal advice needed for racial discrimination".He said "discriminated due to my skin color" and "As a protest, I stood on the road in front of the discotheque and held a sign"
So the first thing is this guy should know there is no racial discrimination and protesting is not the way to go with this.
Now finally where is this guy,he just vanished after starting this topic and never responded just sitting and having fun reading what others write

Raju n Akshay I can smell the feeling of jelousy in both of you.Sex is essential part of life,"he want to get laid" ...is repeated by both
of u so many times hell if he wants polygamy then what is the problem?
Going out getting chicks is this a crime?
Anyhow @TS follow what I said ur life will be better.
in short.
be a value give instead of value sucker --> u will welcome everywhere and get respect.
be smiling .
be the part of system or if u want to look different , look better than others.
Have extreme positive attitude which cant be affected by society and others
go to jym it will bring conficence to ur inner core.
And for girls, in short -> be persistance and forget about perfection ---> one day u get what u want and also learn how to get what u want.

@Othe guy who was having problem understanding me.
U need to think different than what society leads u to think .or when ur thinking is directed by urself not by society then u will understand me better.

@deathinc
I think enigma does not have the talent to sit long hours on internet with what you call persistence and chat with some chick's in Germany and fool her with bollywood love quotes then come over from India get married and stay here.
Enigma is a educated talented guy boy not that talented as what you expect so he needs time to learn.
Also going to gymn will not develop and make bigger that inner core,be happy with what you have learn to use it ;)

>>jym Quote>>

Problem with you guys is that u think negitive before even applying.
so if you belive jym wont work then you are 100% right because u believe in it.
evenif you belive 99% that jym works then also it wont work because u have to put 100% believe in it.
haha dont make his reallity directed by u( who himself has a weak reality).

Im happy with what Im and always ready to help ppl with the resources and experiance i have gathered in my life.


Understand what I mean otherwise u will reamin Chode 4 life.

@deathinc

Good to know that you going to gym and putting 100% believe in it to develop your inner core,yes i can understand a German woman needs developed core which you don't have or she looks somewhere else.But believe me gym will not help as its in the genes of Indians to have 5" so don't stretch it too much and damage the core then you cannot even Chode 4 life ;)

This is problem im also facing , not able to enter in one disco,tried 2 times (with group of german friends as well as alone)they wont let anyone from our group,Im polite all the time with them give them shakehand everytime i have to leave from the door.I have befriend other bouncers in other discos,security people.
My problem is that ,I look like and agrassive massive alpha dude which i guess can be the problem or im forigner also.

Anyhow I have befriend some of the regular ppl goes there and next time i will ask the bouncers from other clubs if they can let me enter (hope they have the same security company)

Anyhow u can never win with force or hate with these bouncers,neither involve in too much heated conversation otherwise they will remember ur face.

Love and friendlyness is the only key.
I will update if i able to get in next time and explain what exactly works for me.

Ok short update

I was ill earlier so didnt went out ,finally I was fit .Change my looks .remove mz beard which made me less agrassive and more look like an Indian .
Went to again this disco smile on face ,bouncer smiled and let me in,I was then making small talk with bouncer and went out after 15 minutes ,and said hey remember my face i come later im waitng for my friend he said ok.I went to other club .
later I want again to same clube (this time he was not letting people In, guys with no girls or big group only guys) I went smiled he let me in ,i talk again with him ,how its going short story .came to him time to time in between and asked if everything is fine,offered him drink.when I was about to leave ,asked his name do some more talk (he was türk) befreind some other bouncers in club for future case asked their name (important) because next time if the dont let u in and u tell
them their name (its a big deal)
Anyhow Im very very playful with bouncers and Im sure next time I can take my big groups in that same club .

//Anyhow Im very very playful with bouncers //

@deathinc,

why are you so much interested in bouncers,,, buddy look for some gals. .. lolz
you sounds very geek!

Its up to u ,u can have ur ego with u and be happy to call me gay or u can put ur ego aside and learn from what i said.