Hello all,
I'm facing a tricky situation. hope someone from you can answer my querry (with referance to law)
I'm living in germnay for around 10 years and now at the end of my german citizenship process.
two years back, my first child was born and got the German citizenship without trouble (based on NE and 8 years stay).
few weeks back I got a second child and meanwhile changed my accomodation to some other place (with different einbuergerung behorde). the lady in this new behorde told me that my second child is not eligebile for German citizenship.
when I inform them that my first child is already holding German citizenship, she inform me that the first behorde had made the mistake and she will contact the first behorde to cancel the german citizenship of first child.
Is it possible?
if yes, what are the other possibilites to attain the German citizenship for the childern.
BR

NE and 8 years automatically grants citizenship if the child is born in Germany . What is the reason you were told like that?

In Bayern(Munich), ABH is not considering parent's student time in 8 years stay, May be the reason.

Did any one in munich got german citizenship for their new borns.

Hi ,

They don´t have any right to change your first child nationality. They can not change the decision of other Behörde. If they do than you have rights to go in to court and tell them they should pay the lawyer fees .

One more thing ask them in written form why your second child can not have a German Nationality.

Hopefully this helps.

BR

I think citizenship is not a piece of paper to be given at someone's wish and will. There is a very well defined process every application or otherwise has to go through to get one at the end.In your case, it was not an explicit application but rather for fulfilling some prerequisites to get that automatically.

If the caseworker now thinks the previous one did not consider all the facts then it's not a problem. An investigation to look into it again can be requested by the caseworker with a suggestion of revoking it.

I personally do not think some of the facts were overlooked in the first place. Even if they were overlooked and citizenship was granted it is not easy to revoke it, especially for such frivolous reasons. It is because, generally the law says, that no living person (or may be dead too) can be a stateless person. Once DE citizenship is revoked there is no chance of automatically switching back to the original one, especially not in this case as the child had none at the time of getting DE citizenship.

That apart, most of the countries would not allow you to simply go back and say, look I have lost the other citizenship and I want to get back into your fold. Well, it doesn't work like that.

Another reason, however a moral one at that, is that for no mistake of the child it can't be made to suffer the vagaries of bureaucracy.

My suggestion would be get the caseworker to clearly give you the reasons for her actions, both asking for revoking the first child's citizenship and also for not giving the second one DE citizenship, in writing. If need be, you might probably need one, consult a lawyer and have this challenged in the court of law.

I wish you and your family all the very best.

Hi BR,

in principle, the german citizenship can be withdrawn even if the person is left stateless. However, it can only be done under certain circumstances (lying, threatening, bribing or false or incomplete declarations) its regulated in the Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz § 35 (Excerpt follows)

So in this case they will check the documentation you provided when you registered your child to see if it contains false or incomplete declarations.

§ 35

(1) Eine rechtswidrige Einbürgerung oder eine rechtswidrige Genehmigung zur Beibehaltung der deutschen Staatsangehörigkeit kann nur zurückgenommen werden, wenn der Verwaltungsakt durch arglistige Täuschung, Drohung oder Bestechung oder durch vorsätzlich unrichtige oder unvollständige Angaben, die wesentlich für seinen Erlass gewesen sind, erwirkt worden ist.

(2) Dieser Rücknahme steht in der Regel nicht entgegen, dass der Betroffene dadurch staatenlos wird.

(3) Die Rücknahme darf nur bis zum Ablauf von fünf Jahren nach der Bekanntgabe der Einbürgerung oder Beibehaltungsgenehmigung erfolgen.

(4) Die Rücknahme erfolgt mit Wirkung für die Vergangenheit.

(5) Hat die Rücknahme Auswirkungen auf die Rechtmäßigkeit von Verwaltungsakten nach diesem Gesetz gegenüber Dritten, so ist für jede betroffene Person eine selbständige Ermessensentscheidung zu treffen. Dabei ist insbesondere eine Beteiligung des Dritten an der arglistigen Täuschung, Drohung oder Bestechung oder an den vorsätzlich unrichtigen oder unvollständigen Angaben gegen seine schutzwürdigen Belange, insbesondere auch unter Beachtung des Kindeswohls, abzuwägen.


Also note that, even though this does not apply directly to your case, § 3 (2) rules that if a person has been treated as a German for 12 years by the authorities, without this being the person's fault, then he will automatically become german. The relevant issue being that there is an implicit recognition that citizens should not have to pay the consequences of administrative errors.

BTW, this is not legal advice!

Cheers,
-a

Thanks aalvarez,Rohith,and rest
the process for German citizenship for the first child was fairly simple. after the birth, I asked the authorities, if the child can get the citizenship (via a telephone call) and they told me that they'll inform me via post. after few days later, I got the letter from authorities, that the child can get DE citizenship and I need to contact the nearest passamt if I need a pass. apart from birth certificate of child, they did not ask any thing else (as far as I can remember).
For the second child, when I ask the authorities in another city exactly the same, they inform me that he cannot get the nationality.
as soon as I inform the lady that the first child is already German national, she was quite surprised. She told me that either both have to be German national by birth or none will get the nationality. She also told that, since she has proved it quite thoroughly that the second child will not get citizenship. therefore they have to ask the authorities from the first office to cancel the citizenship of first child. She already sent the documents to the first office to get the explanation and waiting for their reply for more than a month now.
about me, I came to Germany in 2000 as student and then became GC in 2004. Got NE in 2008. my DE citizenship application is already final.
thanks for your inputs again and hopefully will get some more info from other T7 members.
BR,

to my knowledge, the 8 years valid residency in germany is different from state to state.
in bayern or saxony, the study time is not counted, however, in other state sometime counted sometime not.

So the IDIOT that tell you, is an IDIOT that maybe only know her/his tiny portion of rule in her/his misearable tiny office/authority and assumed that she/he knows how the world is.
And that IDIOT seems to be either HAS NOTHING TO DO and BAD attitude (which obviously the case) OR she/he is very responsible to the job (which is a very rare case, I will say it is in ppm (part per million) level).

So, if they inded revoke it (of course if you think it worth to keep the nationaly) then you should consult a lawyer.

I'm sure the lady is just trying to do her job which is to enforce the law.

But did you inform her about your Einbürgerung process?? You are allowed to add your children and your wife to your Antrag (Staag § 10 (2)) and then they will get the citizenship anyway.