Hello respected friends and members of Trust7,

I am very new to this community.

My name is Jeetesh Gurnani and I am living and working in Bonn as an IT-Professional (Programmer) with a German Company. My contract with this company is gonna end in July 2006 and I will be completing exactly my 5 years on 31st July 2006.

Does that mean that I am also entitled to get a NE (Niederlassungserlaubnis)? If YES, then what are the other formalities that i shall fulfil and present to my Ausländerbehörde? Which stages do i will have to undergo in order to get NE? Is getting a NE relatively easy or tough? Do I need to have a NEW JOB as well after my contract gets finished with the current company (July end 2006, also my VISA/Aufenthaltstitel is getting ended on the same day :-()?? Could Ausländerbehörde create some problems in giving NE in case after my 5 years completion i am unable to find a job?

As i would also like to work and stay in Germany, i would be hearty thankful to you and to all other respected members of Trust7.com to guide me on how can i get my NE and on what basis and what are the requirements?

Pls help me friends with your expert suggestions and advices. Waiting anxiously for the reply...

Thanking you in advance,

Jeetesh from Bonn.

Hi Jeetesh

Well, maybe I'm not the most qualified person here to anwer you because I'm not that old in Germany to get yet a NE but I least I can give you an idea until somebody more qualified can answer you.
AFAIK is not so problematic to get a NE nowadays.

BUT one of the precondition is you can have secured your income here. If you have no work, surely will be dificult to get NE but on the other side you won't be kicked of from here and you can receive a job-search-visa that can last so long as the mood of the beamter: 3 or more months till a year in the best case. The worst scenario can be this and receive Arbeitslosengeld and you are entitled for that.

But anyway, this is not so clever. Why you do try to convince your employer to get a new contract? With work you'll get NE quite fast. Maybe you got a 5 years contract because your company thought you only could be here 5 years, but if you can provide your boss with the copy of the BeschV (Beschäftigungverordnung – searh in the forum) they can check after 5 years you can be here forever and you can get another contract.

What do you need for your NE? Your last 3 payslips, maybe your contract, a letter from your company where says you are still working there (and you'll keep working there!) and some Euros.
Please men, try to negociate an extension and you can keep here, free to change your job anytime and also to work as freelance

Hello Jeetesh,
You have exactly the same situation as I had in sept.2005 when my limited contract was ending on the day when I completed my exact 5 yrs. In DE. However it took me some visits and very clear interpretation of the new ausländerrecht in order to find out that it is not possible to get NE by just living 60 months and paying 60 months renteversicherung in DE. If your employer doesn’t extend your contract you will not get NE but will get 3 yrs. Visa (if you are very lucky!) and 18 months if it goes normal with Ausländerbehörde, during this period you will get ALG.
So the only chance to get NE is to find an unlimited contract with a company if you want to be sure that you will get NE or try to have as much extension as possible with your current so you get the best possible visa (may be 5 yrs. If you secure a limited contract of about 2 yrs. Or more). I got my NE in Okt.05 after showing my unlimited contract and a pay slip with the new company.

Good Luck!

MH

@MH

may you please explain with some datails how was your contact with ABH?

I mean, what options they told you? when did you apply for NE (i.e. 2 months before the end of your visa, as many do)?

Which documents were required for your NE?

As you got a new job, it seems that ABH did not bother you with respect to the Probezeit, did they?

Where are you located?

Thanks,

Alex

I was located in Hessen at the time of NE, now i am in Bayern.
I was a frequent visitor of ABH before i got NE - however i always tried to talk
to the head of the department there, which normally knows about the law well.The normal Beamters disappointed me most of the time. -
I think everybody should examine his/her situation very well in well advance and plan
about the different options.
i went to ABH for NE in the first week of Jan-05 when i had still 9 months - to
complete my 5 yrs. the lady refused my application just by saying "there are still
three quarters to go for getting NE"... At that time it wasnt yet clear if an unlimited work contract is the most important thing in getting NE!
However inbetween I was discussing with many lawyers about my case because I had a limited contract ending on the same day when I would have
Completed my 5 yrs. In DE. The result of all those discussions was that: "I always knew more then the lawyer about the details of the new Ausländerrecht …" which made me quite upset because when a lawyers doesn’t know about the law details how he can handle your case.
However I got an appointment with the Abteilungsleiter of such visa concerns in ABH (Hessen). He was very nice and even came himself to pick me from the waiting area. I discussed with him every detail and all scenarios related to my case, e.g. if my employer doesn’t extend my contract, if he gives me only 6 months / 1 yr extension and and and…..
Everytime he opened a book of new law and told me the exact interpretation of the new law for these scenarios. Just to make it concise:
5 yrs. In DE+unlimited Work Contract = NE
5 yrs. In DE+1 yrs. Contract = 3 yrs. Visa
5 yrs. In DE + no further contract/work = A visa extension of about 18 for which you have right of getting ALG.
However he said ABH will give the best possible in case I couldn’t arrnange an unlimited contract until that and I will get NE at the same time if I I happen to arrange an unlimited work contract.

However the best thing I did was to apply for "Beschäftigung Erlaubt" which I got 5 months before getting NE in Okt.05. The requirement of BE is: if you have worked 3 years in DE or stayed legally for 4 years in DE. The "BE" opened my ways because now employers were more interested because I had unlimited working permission. I applied 3 months before completing 5 yrs. However ABH took only the filled "NE Form" from me and asked me to come on 01.okt05 with pass, unlimited contract, pay slips, photos etc. They didn’t care of probezeit etc… but asked me to show a pay slip from my new employer. I joined the new employer a month before completing 5 yrs.So I could show a pay slip+2 pay slips from old employer. I think however that some ABH asks you that you first complete your probezeit. In Hessen it wasnt the case.
My impression is if you have children they will be more generous, I had no kid at that time though -


-MH

@MH

Thanks a lot for your useful feedback!

may you drop me an E-mail to:

alexander_quinones AT hotmail DOT com
AT=@
DOT=.

I have some additional questions but I prefer to ask you them via E-mail.

Thanks for your help, ;-)

Alex

Hey friends!!

Thank you all so so so much for providing me the important information(s).

:-)

I already have started looking for another job, since my contract cannot be extended anymore with my current company due to company's rule and policies :-(

Hence, i updated my biodata, application letter, certificates etc and am searching for a new job. I still have the time uptil July End 2006. Hope i will be able to get a new job in Bonn or neighbouring areas (Pls cross your finger for me friends) as i have a very good knowledge of German language (can also speak quite well) PLUS an experience of abt 6 years with various and latest Microsoft Technologies.

Dear Trust7 friends, can anyone from you all let me know about some sites/companies where i can apply to?

Any replies/help will be hearty appreciated.

Thanking you million times again...

Jeetesh.
(hijeetu@rediffmail.com)

Hello Friends,

Its me Jeetesh again.

Since my 5 years are getting completed on 31st July 2006, do i need to apply for BE (Beschäftigung Erlaubt)? In my VISA/Aufenthaltstitel it is mentioned as:

Beschäftigung nur gemäß §27 BeschV als Programmierer bei <<firma>> und längstens bis zum 31.07.2006 erlaubt. Selbständige Tätigkeit nicht erlaubt.

Does that mean that my VISA is limited to the present company i am working for? Could i have some problems in applying for a new job to a new company (since my VISA is bounded to present company)? Why ABH mentioned '...und längstens bis zum 31.07.2006 erlaubt.'??

I am planning to go to Ausländerbehörde on coming Thursday and apply for BE so that i can also apply for jobs to other companies as well. May be in the month of May 2006 i will apply for NE (since on 31st July 2006 i am completing exactly my 5 yrs and have also paid 60 months Rentenversicherung etc.).

Friends, i wanna ask you all what should i tell to ABH in this respect? Should i simply ask them to change my VISA type and mention 'Beschäftigung Erlaubt' somewhere or how? Which law can i point to them in case they create some problems?

Has someone also faced a similar situation?

Pls help me friends!!!

Jeetesh from Bonn.

Hello again...

Went to Ausländerbehörde Bonn on last Thursday and got my VISA Type changed :-)

Now I have BE (Beschäftigung Erlaubt) and can work in any company :-)

Do someone know any companies and/or Websites where i can apply to? May be there is someone in this Forum itself who have his/her own company and are looking for IT Professionals in Microsoft Technologies?? ;-)

Jeetesh.

Hi All, Hi MH,
I will complete my 5 years after 2 months. I also had a contract of exactly 5 years. Now I got an extension of 2 more years. I went to the ABH and they told me that it is not necessary to have unlimited contract. Any job contract exceeding the 5 years is enough to get the NE. MH, can you please guide to the law which says:
5 years+limited contract = 3 years visa
etc. etc...

Hi Friends, Jeetesh again.

The situation is now really getting tensed.

As i have already mentioned that my VISA and my CONTRACT is getting ended on July 31, 2006. And exactly on the same day i am completing my 5 years in Germany. In FEB. I got my BE (Beschäftigungs-Erlaubniss).

My question to all experts: When should i contact to Ausländerbehörde in order to get a VISA extension? How much extension can i get? When should i register myself as 'Arbeitslos ab 1. August' with Arbeitsamt?

I hope i wont be simply thrown out of Germany after my VISA gets over on 31st July .

Friends, what is your suggestion? Should i simply go to Ausländerbehörde and ask for a VISA extension? Or should I consult some lawyer?

Pls HELP ME OUT friends!!!

Thanking you in advance, Jeetesh.

Those guys are reasonable. I think you should go there in May for your extension. If you wait till it expires, you might find it a bit tough though. The erlaubnis you were given shows you can do any kind of job after your contract expires.

The earlier you get there the better.

Good luck.

Thank you Mumuni for your feedback.

OK, I shall be visiting Bonn Ausländerbehörde next week in May. Hopefully they give me the VISA extension for another 18-to-24 months (???).

My wife is also with me on the Spouse Visa and her VISA is dependent on mine.
Does that mean: if i get my VISA extended, she also gets her extended as well? Pls let me know friends.

How earlier should Arbeitsamt be informed about my 'Arbeitslos Status ab 1. August'? Should i inform them in May 1st week or should i wait till June/July (may be i get some another job in June/July)??

Waiting anxiously for +ve feedback and valueble suggestions. Thanks in advance.

Jeetesh.

Hi Jeetesh!

I can answer your question regarding Arbeitsamt.

You must register at Arbeitsamt as Arbeitlos within 3 working days from your last working day.
However, you should register at Arbeitsamt as Job-suchende 3 months prior to the date your contracts terminates, that's if you have received the contract-termination notice earlier.

Good luck!

I would suggest you go the immigration first before arbeitsamt. WHY? Because they work hand in hand. If you inform them about the termination of your contract, it might affect your visa extension. You can even wait till the employer informs you about the termination of your contract.

With your wife's issue, once you get the extension, she gets it automatically. But why hasn't she got workpermit?

Hello Mumuni,

Thanks again for your feedback.

OK, I will be going to Ausländerbehörde first in order to get a VISA extension. May be somewhere in May-1st week. (My Aufenthaltstitel gets expired on 31st July). Sometimes they tell us to come just before 1 month of the VISA expiration, so lets see what do the Ausländerbehörde tells this time as i go to them in 1st week of May.

Good to know that my wife also gets an extension automatically. I think as she has a Aufenthaltstitel (Spouse Visa dependent on mine Visa) therefore she should be automatically having Work Permit as well.

Friends, what do you all think? Will they extend it in 1st week of May itself? Or will i be told again to come somewhere in June last week or July 1st week?

Thanks million times for your feedbacks!

They may or not extend it the same day or would tell you their decision. But I think,it would be positive.
If you your wife has been with you since you came here, you should have got the workpermit for her '§ 9'. Since yours was changed to BE it would have been easire. Well it is not a problem once you get the extension, it will be given or you can ask them for it. I know those guys are cool though. Don't rush them for any thing just relax and talk with them in case you don't understand anything in the law. PLEASE don't forget to take your new required passport size pictures with you. I mean both of you. Without them, you might be sent away to snap some.

"I would suggest you go the immigration first before arbeitsamt. WHY? Because they work hand in hand."

No they don't. Sozialamt tends to work with immigration office hand in hand, but not Arbeitsamt. Arbeitsamt will try to persuade YOU to go to immigration office if your residence permit expires soon or has expired already, but they will never call immigration office and ask something about your chances to get a new residence permit

I said, AB and Immigration work hand in hand because,the office of the immigration has to apply for a workpermit for you, so definately one can not contact arbeitsamt without the immigration. This began this year with the new law. I have went through that so I know what I am talking about.
I still suggest you go to the immigration for the extension first. I don't think you should go to the arbeitsamt until you receive your notice of termination.

I said, AB and Immigration work hand in hand because,the office of the immigration has to apply for a workpermit for you, so definately one can not contact arbeitsamt without the immigration.

they don't have to and should not apply for a work permit in case of GC-holder who lives almost 5 years here.

even if they apply for a work permit, they will not get any information about your employment or financial status. all that they are going to get from employment office - "yes" without any explanations or "no" with an explanation that the situation on a german job market doesn't allow to issue you a requested work permit.


I know what i am talking about, because:
- immigration office did not have any info about me getting Alg II in 01.-02.2005 and therefore asked ME to provide them information about my income sources;
- but when i had to go to Sozialamt in year 2002, immigration office was immediately informed about that

so definately one can not contact arbeitsamt without the immigration.

why is that? it's you who has to apply for an unemployment benefit and/or register yourself as unemployed person, immigration office will not do it for you.

the original question was whether an application for an unemployment benefit and/or registration of unemployment can make it harder for you to get a prolongation of your residence permit. I say no, because immigration office is not going to learn about that application (unless you yourself or some your friends will not provide them that important piece of information of course)

Hallo again,

Went 2 the Ausländerbehörde to get my Aufenthaltstitel extended. She said me that i can directly apply for NE and said me to come in June End. Thats for sure that in order to get NE one must have an unlimited job/contract, I have also started looking for jobs all over Germany.

What if i am unable to get a unlimited job or any job till June/July end? Then i guess thats for sure that she is not gonna give me NE.

But as far as i know and as previously replied to my posts, Ausländerbehörde SHOULD extend my visa for another 18-to-24 months so that i can get the benefits from the govt. as i have a right of getting ALG!!

What if they does not extend my visa in june end? or what if they extend my visa only for lets say 3-to-6 months or so??? I have thought of going to VPMK lawyers in case i (and my wife) does NOT get an extension of atleast 15-to-18 months.

Am i thinking right here? Exactly 2 months from now remains as my contract and visa gets over in July end :-(

Friends, pls suggest what has to be done or how should i react in June end when i next meet to the Beamter at Ausländerbehörde. Pls help me out friends!

Thanking you all in advance, Jeetesh from Bonn.

You can get any job and not necessary being an unlimited contract. Once you have a job, it saves you. You will definitely get the extension.

One advice, if you want to deal with the Ausländerbehörde, never starts with a lawyer. Do everything possible within your power i.e. to say talk of convincing, try to be nice and also have some idea about what the law says about your situation to them. Only talk to a lawyer if you think they are being too difficult even that try to reason with them. This is from my own experience. Immediately you bring in a lawyer, then you would not get it easy from them, and everything they would refer you to your lawyer and that can be disappointing I tell you.

Bonn is good no doubt about that any way.
The best is to get a job though.
Just relax and go there for their decision.

I wish you all the best.

Hello Friends,

I went 2 Ausländerbehörde y'day 4 my VISA Extension, but she rejected my extension saying that s my contract is getting over in July End (so does my Aufenthaltstitel), she can't extend it!!

I tried alot to convince them that i have been living here since 5 yrs & been paying all the taxes & all possible insurances and i have right to get my Aufenthaltstitel for another 12-to-18 months. I also told her that i have registered myself as JOB-SUCHENDE bei Arbeitsamt and i have the right for getting ARBEITSLOSGELD for 18 months.... Then she opened the LAW BOOK and read it for 15 mins but in vain!! In the end she said sorry i cannot extend your stay, so i told her okay then i should consult my Rechtsanwalt regarding this.

I have finally decided to go to VPMK Lawyers.

Friends, do some1 from you have had the same experience? Was some1 from you also refused the VISA extension after completing 5 yrs time? I mean, they simply cant throw us out from Germany after living here for 5 yrs!!!

Can any1 also pls suggest me with whom at VPMK lawyers should i consult? How good are they in handling such cases etc. etc.

Time is running out friends, pls help me out again with your highly valuable suggestions!

Thanks, Jeetesh aus Bonn.

Hi,
Send me an email to stevco11@yahoo.de
Just call me over my Email.
OK?
I will try to help you.

Hello Max,

I have sent you an email on the address you specified! Pls read it (check your Junk Mails folder too) and do let me know how you can help me further.

Thanks a lot buddy.

Cheers! Jeetesh.

Hallo Friends,

The whole situation is now simply becoming messy and worst!!!

My VISA havent been extended yet :-( Last month Ausländerbehörde did not extended it saying that i doesnt have any further job from August 1, 2006 and hence my VISA cant be extended. I explained to them that i have registered myself as Arbeitslos and Arbeitssuchende bei Arbeitsamt, but all in vain :-(

Max (he is a very nice guy, i have spoken to him on phone) helped me and suggested me that I should go to Arbeitsamt and get Bewilligungsbescheinigung and present them to Ausländerbehörde and then also if they doesnt extend my stay here i should go to VPMK lawyers.

So I went there and asked for Bewilligungsbescheinigung. Arbeitsamt said that it might reach to me somewhere in upcoming week (may be till 27th July??). They also said that make sure i get my VISA/Aufenthaltstitel extended else i wont be getting Arbeitslosgeld 1.

Today is already 23rd July and my VISA expires on 31st July. Last hope remains is the presentation of Bewilligungsbescheinigung to the Ausländerbehörde. I hope they extend my VISA this time.

All i also know is that i have RIGHT to stay here after completion of 5 years and search for jobs and get ALG 1 for atleast 1 year. Hope they wont simply throw me out of here!!

I am searching for jobs and have also appeared for couple of Interviews yet no positive outcomes.

Only 8 more days are remaining :-( You all can understand how tensed and stressed i am right now. Do someone knows any LINK/SITE where it is crystal CLEARLY mentioned that the GCs/foreigners staying here since last 3-5 years does have RIGHT to get their RESIDENT PERMIT extended for 1 year or so??

Thanks alot friends. Pls help me out with your valuable suggestions.

Jeetesh aus Bonn.

Jeetesh,

I would recommend you contact the lawyers NOW before it's too late. They will be able to make a petition for your residence permit based on the exact law that the ABH will have to either approve or reject (or they reject it, you will still have time to go to revision, but by then you will probably have a job).

If you belong to the Commonwealth you might also take the opportunity to consider applying for a job in the UK, although immigration offices are probably the same like the Germans there is a bigger law-security since all the exact procedures are published on the net so you know exactly what to expect.

One of the things I like of the British is their sense of fair-play, where, if you have been productive to society they give you a chance to actually look for another job before kicking you out.

Regards,
-a

Dear Jeetesh,

As far as I have learned from feedbacks over the last few months. I have not come to a case where the visa extension is rejected ( I hope I am correct here). Often, the applicants are asked to come a few days before the end of 5 years for the extension. In rare cases, they were asked to come a few days after the 5 years.

In both situations, the appllicants were NOT rejected for the extension !!!!.

Your case is unique ( I think)

I wonder if anyone here has reference to a particular article$ under the new immigration law that can be used to justify VISA extension.

JIM.

Hi,

Sorry that I couldn’t get contact to you before, I just get out from the hospital today.
Do not panic.
I had also no answer 3 months from Ausländramt. I was without any paper, any visa, any answer 3 months and afterward they gave me visa.
It is true, that in that time I was having (I found) a job in Hanover, but never the less when you have Bewiligungbescheid for ALGI 1 I see no problem why not to prolong it because you are entitle to have it, you are not on Social money and you are getting money from that, that you have paid before. They where cutting from your salary money for Arbeitslos Geld.
Last thing…. if nothing happen, ask for Mrs.Ponert. She is very nice lady and she will help you.
If you need me, jus call me on phone.
And to all of you, when someone needs someone for talking or friendship, just drop me email: stevco11@yahoo.de

Hello Friends!!

Sorry for a late post!

Good news is that just before 4 days of my VISA Expiry, i got a new JOB as an Application Developer in a Leverkusen based company. It is an unlimited contract with a probation period of 6 months (which will end in January 2007). The Beamter at Ausländerbehörde Bonn had absolutely no problems in extending my (and of my wifes too) VISA for another 1 year, i.e. till 31st July 2007, yet denying me the Niederlassungserlaubniss (NE)

I tried to explain her alot that i fulfil all the conditions for NE, i have a new job as well, Lebensunterhaltung ist auch versichert etc. etc. and if that silly condition of probation period still matters!! She said yes that matters & i cannot get/apply for the NE as this is a new job and it might happen that during the probationary period of 6 months my employer leaves me or i leave the company She further said i can get/have NE only after completion of my probezeit (i.e. in Feb. 2007)

Well i then accepted her conditions & the VISA for 1 more year as there was no sense in further discussions with that f**k**g Beamter, since she wasnt hearing anything neither she was trying to understand.

I dont really know when i should apply for my NE?? I mean, will i be given NE directly in FEB.2007 1st week? or will i have to apply for it around 6 weeks before end of my probation period?

Any suggestions will be highly appreciated.

In the end... My dear friends... please accept my MILLION HEARTY & SINCERE THANKS for the help, moral support & valuable suggestions I got from all of you (especially from Max - Hi Max, hope u r reading this! How r u buddy?). Trust7 is a great place for us all & i hope we all will simply keep it up!



Best of Luck & Cheers!

Jeetesh.

Mr Jeetesh,

I would kindly ask you to tone down your language. abusing an official who is within her limits to deny you NE is regrettable. She is within her limits and has to do you no personal favour. Your complaint can be understandable if she is not following the rules but not when she is right. Can you throw the law book on her face and prove she is wrong? Well you cant because this time she followed the rules perfectly. So wait till feb and then apply for NE. That time she cannot refuse u and if she does then you have the same law to justify your qualification for it. Have some respect for the beamter and dont try to make an issue when none exists.

Well raj, neither I am trying to make an issue out of it nor i am disrespecting someone. So just chill out man

You cant imagine how some of these Beamter(s) treat us; like we are a burden on them or on their country!!! We are highly qualified personnel being invited by Germany to work here; paying high taxes; away from family trying to make name & future for ourselves; so after spending a good time period of lets say 5-6 years when we simply request them to prolong our VISA for couple of months in our bad times, they start playing games & making excuses. They sometimes just never listen to us. U cant imagine the humiliation one has to face sometimes!! Better are those people working & living here illegally who never pay taxes or so, atleast they dont have to face these Beamters.

If you were on my place you might also have gone equally mad & frustrated when a Beamter is being partial to you on couple of occassions. Anyways, it was not my intention to hurt anyone's feelings. If i have done so then i am sorry!

Have a very nice day & forthcoming weekend ahead.

Cheers!