The situation:
Before 3 weeks I have apply for NE and got answer that will be not any problem at all just I have to wait some time.
My pass and all documentation is by Auslenderämt and I wait any day answer.
Yesterday I have received 'Kundigung' - the thing I was before writting and explainin - that maybe he will put me in position 'as now' only 5 minutes before 12.
He didi so.
I must go in Arbeitsamt and apply for 'arbeitslosegeld' and I have fiar that in mean time the ex 'arbeitgeber' can phone or inform or what ever the Auslenderämt' and stop all procedure and do to me more evel.
I have fiar and I donot know what to do.
Any help, suggestion or what ever will help me a lot.
Short question for those who knows:
What can happened with my visum and status in DE?
Thanks.

Dear Max,

First of all try to calm down and relax. I can understand that you are in a crucial situation right now, your NE is being processed and your job contract is terminated. Let's evaluate your options rationally.

You received Kundigung yesterday. Looks like you are still paid for the rest of this month, i.e. in employment until the end of this month.

You applied for NE 3 weeks before, it may have been approved as of we speak now. If not then it will be by the end of this month (remember you are still in employment until the end of this month), so nothing to worry about your NE.

I must go in Arbeitsamt and apply for 'arbeitslosegeld' and I have fiar that in mean time the ex 'arbeitgeber' can phone or inform or what ever the Auslenderämt' and stop all procedure and do to me more evel.

Yes, you have to go to Arbeitsamt but what is the big hurry. You are still paid for this month. Your arbeitgeber will not call Auslenderämt and try to block your NE, unless you really did screw-up big time or deflowered his daughter.

My advice is to wait as long as you can with ALG and AA. You only have to go to AA before you stop working. It is not important if you got Kundigung yesterday.
How long is your Kundigungsfrist?
If it is 1 month (minimum) then you can work until end October. So end October you should aply at AA for ALG and no need to worry. By then you should have NE in your pocket.

@DVD

How did you count Kündigungsfrist in this case? If Max has received Kündigung yesterday, it means (assuming he has 1 mounth Kündigungsfrist) he will be "free" in the middle October and not at the end of October. Or I do not know something that you know?

Kundigungfrist bezieht sich auf volle Monat.
So if he starts to work in October then he should work until end of Oktober.
It is posible to calculate half month but even then he has to work till end October because second half of September already begun.

But if he has Probezeit or no Kundigungfrist than he can be the same day out of Firma.
max should say what Frist he has.

Yes, DvD Suggestion is practical. You maz not want to do ANYTHING todaz.

In My opinion ur NE is Intact No Employer is going to call up the AA and inform them that so and so with pass numerr bla bla is nomore with me and donot process his NE !!

Infact ur NE has to be processed by thte fact that u have paid rente for 60months and u have applied for it.

Get arbeitlosgeld and suche for andere arbeit.

@max

if you received the Kündigung yesterday then you have to go register yourself as unemployed right away.
There's some kinda new law about that (got the info from my boss' girlfriend who works at AA) that you have to register yourself normally on the same day you receive the Kündigung, if you, you gonna get some penalties for it.

When I reigstered last week, one day after I received mine, the woman at the counter asked me "ok, the letter mentions that you are fired since yesterday, why are you coming today then? you should have been here yesterday", I just told her "yeah, but I got the letter at 5.30 PM and you close at 6 PM, I woulnd't have the time to come over right away so I came today" and she answered back, "ok then".

So to avoid any pbm, just go, but I don't think your employer will stop your NE process because of that.

D.

@NoBody

Well...it is true that you have to register with AA as soon as you received your Kündigung. But they covertly dont care if you are couple of days/months late. A friend of my mine (also GC) turned up in AA after 13 months of losing his job and then only thing they asked him to show his bank statement for last 13 months that he wasnt doing any Schwarzarbeit. Honestly AA doesnt jump with joy when you register with them for Arbeitslosengeld, you can go to hell after losing your job....for all they care.

@DvD
But if he has Probezeit or no Kundigungfrist than he can be the same day out of Firma.
max should say what Frist he has.



How does 'Probezeit ' come in play ?

@Akshay

but if you do it late, the penalty comes by what you will not receive as ALG.

D.

@NoBody


http://www.welt.de/data/2005/05/31/725489.html

@Akshay

thanks, I didn't knew that, but anyway, I already registered

D.

Hallo Max,

Because of practical experience with such situation.

Here goes my Vorschlag:

- Wichtig ist dass du erst nach NE versuchst

Wie?
!!!Let your process for NE complete, without letting ABH or AA or any office know about your Kündigung!!!!

Remember, if you get an Anmeldung at AA, then currently, your "Database" is centralized and accessible by every
Amt(One window Operation) :-)

Go to an Arbeitsrechtanwat(should be a good one) and He/She should write to your Employer(who gave you
this Kündigung at the 11th hour, especially in a situation, when you are going to get NE) claiming that
you have been given "Kündigung" wrongly.

Just for this process(between Rechtsanwalt and your Employer) need 1 month(min.)

Now, the reason of claiming that Kündigung to be wrong, could be found by your Lawyer.

I know, its not good, but at this moment, your Employer too did not care about your future and your situation.

If nothing goes into your favor(thru this Versuch), atleast, you will secure your time necessary to get NE.

Rest, you should not fear that your Employer will contact ABH. There is "Datenschutz" in DE and nobody can
get others info by just calling at ABH. Also, it makes no sense that Employer is running to cancel Employee
"Aufenthalt" (Does your Employer have enough time for?)

So, its my sincere advise not to register at AA(Arbeitsamt)(Sorry Nobody, but I think, it should not be a matter
at this time to lose some Arbeitslosgeld, but to secure NE) and just get a lawyer to get more delay to your
kündigung matter. This will encourage you boldly to face ABH, otherwise, its likely that you might say something
wrong in response to ABH question or discussion during NE-erteilung.

Rather, I would advise you to take Mr. Detlef help to get a good lawyer for your case.

Wish you best of luck to get into NE-club soon.

A.T

I completely agree with A.T.

Here is the penalty clause for late registration at AA. The maximum penalty can not exceed € 1500 ;-)

http://www.arbeitslosenverband.org/1_7_2003.pdf

@A.T.

no need to be sorry, dude, I gave the advice with a missing info and that was the point why my advice should not be taken in consideration at the moment.

And you're right, the most important thing at the moment is to secure the NE and I really know what it is, I don't even want to think of what could have been my case if I had had only an extension and no NE and got fired like I did.
In fact, in all the interviews I've made these last days per phone, the NE is really coming in question, I can say in 90% of the case and getting it is a better chance to find a more suitable job at the moment. I myself have a couple of face to face interviews this week and the coming and I know that having the NE made all the difference. So you better go for it first max.

Another point regarding your Kündigung, just as I said last time, a company can lay you off only if it is in financial difficulties or if you've made a very big mistake, but I can reckon as you told us all these last times you wrote about that that you're in none of them so going for a lawyer can be a very good solution.

Try first to contact a lawyer and explain him the case, and get his view on that (I'm myself taking my case on courts with VPMK) and advise you on how you gonna get this on courts. There are very good options by doing that (I've learned a lot while speaking about my case with my lawyer) so I will advise you to go for it, you loose nothing, but I just hope you have a Rechtschutz, if not, it gonna cost you quite a lot.

As A.T. said, your employer has no right to call and check on your case, only you, your lawyer or another official part can do that and your employer is none of them. He can call to say you lost your job, but then, that means he will have to get in touch with the person handling your case and this is also in the Datenschutz clause, unless you gave him yourself the name of the person to contact (that's why my company had to ask me the name of the person handling my case at ABH and ask me the right to contact him, which I gave).

Take care Max and calm down, I will be the first (as usual) to welcome you to the §9-Club, promise.

D.

"How does 'Probezeit ' come in play ?"


AFAIK During Probezeit there is no Kundigungfrist.

So Max, At the end of the day you do have an idea how to proceed !!! thats the first step to victory !!!

Patiently wait for NE,Simoultously contact lawyer and workout the options.

"Patiently wait for NE, simoultously contact lawyer and workout the options" and already check job positions.

D.

Hello MAx,
Dont worry. Could you send me ur CV to my email address.
chan underscore krish at yahoo dot com

with a small description of what u have done in your past company.

Let me try out something for you in mine.

well, I don't know if I understood you guys right, but I think that the company can call AB/AA to inform that you are not working with them anymore.

So, my advice would be to ask your boss explicitly that you need that he does not that.

One of my former companies called AB to inform that I did not work with them anymore...

With germans there shouldn't be a problem but don't forget that we are foreigner and companies don't want to have serious problems in these situations.

So, my advice would be to ask your boss explicitly that you need that he does not that.


DON'T even think of mentioning this to your boss. If you ask him to hide this fact from ABH, chances are he would think that something is fishy and would right away call ABH.

well, it depends on how is the current situation with Max's employer.

I did it one time and then they didn't report it (they were planning to do it).

I did not ask that to another company and they called AB...

It's just my experience. Max should check how is the relationship with his/her boss...

On the other hand, for me it is sure that the company knows all what is happening to Max (including tha he could fail to get NE).

uhmm...looks complicated to me...

Thankyou all for your help.
I have move in new flat and I still do not have internet in new one and I have problems with ex 'Vermieter' couse she still do not want to take that I and my family are sick couse of the flat and got astma an my wife 'cista' in 'hals'.
First bad storry.
Yesterday I was called just to go there and forced to sign the Kundigung.
I have self made this thing couse I have done the following.
In privat chat over ICQ with some of my friend he ask me how is situation going and I have replay that is bad and sveral weeks I am just pusshed,smiled and the akt with me bad and treet me like n.zi.
My coleg has remark that and unfortenately I have not delete this privat chat...he print out and go to boss and put more 'slag' and lies that I was not able to explain at all.
I have explain and try to ask for forgivness but nothing happened.
In one way I am self gilt.I understand that and I am soory for it.
He wrote in kundigung that the reason is because I have called them n.zi, and wrote 'fristlose kundigung' without any chanche to do anything.
The lawer told me that I got some chance but shall see something and the point is that was/is not aloud to look and search in privat things in his/her 'arbeitnehmer'.
I was played off from my coleg.Unfortenately I was put in midle in room where I was humiliated and informed that they will never ever want to something form 'ausländer' and shaued off 'I will show you know and you will regreth for ever.'
I was followed to every step from all since May, and thats happened.
Whit this 'kundigung' I can not go in arbeitamt and apply couse thy will inform Ausländeramt and I mus immidiate go out.So the lawer inform me this and told me that he will make 'anspurch' for normal kundigung and chanche for explenation why someone has barging in privat thing and abuse.
I have sealed my destany.
In mean time I can look (that the lawer said) but not to go in arbeisamt or what ever.
I was informing many time about my situation and I was newing that he will do such thing.He could not find nothing about me so long time, I was working more then 12 hours a day treeted like idiot, smiled, even he many times loudly infront all proclaim to me 'dumme arschloch', 'idiot' but I have done nothing.
Thanky you for all your help and ideas ....VP was right I do not have any luck in Germany at all.
I wait month-two to see what happened and if I do not get chanche I go home.
I expect to get internet at Friday then I wrote more.

I search job, I am PHP,ASP,JAVA,FLASH,FOX ASP.NET SILVERSTREAM, with DB2,SQL,MYSQL,ORACLE administration.
I will palce my CV but I do not think that I will get any chanche.
I am too depresiv,sick,tired, without any money and I am sorry that I have wrote such a thing...
Unfortenately I live in very small city in Germany and I have to travel wit train in Göttingen to reach all amts and everything.
I pray every night and hope.
Thank you all for your support.Your answers are keeping me alive somehow.

@max

Hi dude, now I know how he went, and it really looks like you weren't among the good people, you just don't belong there and that's the point.
Working with people like your colleague can be a pain, people smiling at you but stabbing you in the back, I will never wish that to anyone.

It's good to know that you already took and consulted a lawyer for your case, it's really the only thing to do in such case as it's very critical and very hard to handle.

"Yesterday I was called just to go there and forced to sign the Kundigung", AFAIK one can never be forced to sign a Kündigung, as you have the right to reject it right away, but yeah, it happened and that's sad.
"My coleg has remark that and unfortenately I have not delete this privat chat...he print out and go to boss and put more 'slag' and lies that I was not able to explain at all", as you said and as the lawyer should have told you, even if the computer is the company's, none has the right to access it and check your personal things in there. I dunno if such law exists in Germany, but I know that they exist in France for example. Not only should you try to settle and solve the problem, but I would recommand you to keep something for your colleague and sue him after that, for privacy violation.

"I was played off from my coleg.Unfortenately I was put in midle in room where I was humiliated and informed that they will never ever want to something form 'ausländer' and shaued off 'I will show you know and you will regreth for ever.", this can also be taken to court for psychological and emotional pain, because I dunno how you felt at that time, but he surely did hurted you in your innermost.

"Whit this 'kundigung' I can not go in arbeitamt and apply 'cause they will inform Ausländeramt and I muss immediately go out", are you not entitled for ALG?

Sorry bro, dunno what to say more, reading all this really tore me down.

D.

Hi Max,

I am sorry to hear so dramatic news about you.

Dumme Arcsxxx and Idiot aren't a common words for normal german people. I wonder how you still can stand him. If I were you, I will record this and sue him for that . then quit!

Chatting during job isn't a good habit, I believe your boss mad about it too. Plus the topic is quite hot stuff.

Anyway, it is a very good lesson learnt, wish you good luck and be positive!

uhmmm...

As I suspected, you did a bad mistake. Even a ugly boss had waited until you got NE in "normal" circunstances.

Calling a german nazi is the worst mistake that you can do (don't you know that after 5 years?).

You are always talking bad about german/Germany, so what you are getting is what you deserve: This is not a place for you.

Let's try the lawyer to see what he/she can do, but in your feet I'd be thinking to leave without blaming the others but myself... a NE with your attitude is worthless (did you forget that sometimes even they require integration
courses?).

Hi Max,

I don't know what is worse, using the n word, or such a blatant violating of your privacy.

Normally in such situations, both parties have contributed to the escalation.

For the moment, request a Zeugnis by certified mail, or through your lawyer, and start looking for another job.

In any case, if they fired you with information they acquired by breaking the law (Datenschutzgesetz), plus mobbing you , and making you work more than the 10 hours per day (the legal limit), you do have the possibility of getting damages, and perhaps (theoretically) being re-instated.

However, do think that leaving that company is probably for the best, and the next time, be very careful with what you write.

regards,
-a

a little bit sharing.

The new company will required a recommendation letter from your former employer right?

I believe they will ask why one did leave the former company, in Max case will be a little bit difficult, I think.

@Max,

From your description, I got a picture, where this was pre-planned between your employer and the said Kollege to get something from you.

But, I would say that your attitude "TOO" looked "BIASED" toward the company and they used it as evidence.

So, you were "wrong" person at "wrong" place at wrong "time".

Now, under current circumstances, its better that you engaged them thru lawyer to get some time for Aufenthalt (NE). Your lawyer too would have recommended you not to talk or write such thing again.

Even, in the worst situation, ABH knows about your Kündigung.

Then, you still have
- the right to claim for ALG or
- a period in which you may search for a new job (which may span from 1 year(as you worked for 5 years) to 3 years, depending upon the ABH and the relevant person there and ofcourse your luck. (Source: user MH in Hessen)
- Or till this case against your employer proceeds.(I dont want to hurt you, but you have less chances to win because of witness with the employer. But, as I am not aware of full circumstances, therefore, your lawyer can tell you better about, but still you will get time for that (6 months to 1 year(normal)).

So, my advise for you is not to mix the other problems(like your Flat, Health etc) with this Employer/Aufenthalt.

Because, its your priority now to get Visa(Extension) and so you will get that in any case. So, be relax and follow what the lawyer says and dont spread the "Disappointment" result to ABH.

This is the situation in which no one can help you, but first, you have to gather your "Nerves" under control and think that it was good for you to get out of that company and search for new company.

Now, regarding new company, you may ask your lawyer and he will get you the necessary "Work Experience" from your old employer. But, I would advise you not to do at this time or till you get NE/AE, as you should make your "POINT-OF-VIEW" strong enough that you were still fired wrongly and support your lawyer not to repeat mistake again.

Hope, this would atleast help you to control your nerves first.


A.T
Note: Yes, "Racism" is getting a problem because of "Globalization". But, we should not use "Bad" names instead. I wish you "Peace of mind" to get out of this situation soon!!!

in short what you have to do is:

1. try to reach NE. if you get it than you do not need to worry about anything else
2. if You do not get NE then try to get as much Verlängerung as possible. 1 year min but 5 i better. You have right to get extension even without job.
3. after geting extension, get job. but search from now on.

those things with Anwalt are last priority.
you can start it but don't lose to much time for that.

Dear Max,

I don't have to tell you that you are in deep shit with your f****d-up N*** remark. Since last 60 years germans are slogging their butt off to the clear this bad name. They have been humiliated enough from every Tom,Dick and Harry from this planet. You should thank god that your boss only fired you, he could have taken you to court for N*** remark and you can very well guess what would happen in court. You are really in need of some deep soul-searching instead of worrying about getting NE or a new job.

Sorry if I am bit harsh on you but you needed to learn this lesson for your own good.

Lets think of a way out of this situation. I have couple of questions for you...

1. Which nickname did you use in ICQ? Can your boss prove that this nickname belongs to you?

2. Do you have any proof of them calling you 'Idiot' and 'dumme A****loch' ?

3. Can you prove that you were mentally torchered and abused to such an extent that you lost your balance and called them N*** ?

4. Do you have Rechtschutzversicherung?

Thank you all.
I have read it carefuly everyting.
I am gilty I know that.I have excuse to all althow in the privat chat was just and only that word written.
Maybe was planned maybe not...
I ...Thanks.

@Max

Stop whining and take charge of your life. And could you please answer the questions I asked you?

LOL ppl, be careful to use "SSS" abbreviation too otherwise you get thumped up.

....its nice to hear from you after a long time, btw SSS doesn't stand for Schutzstaffel

@Max

I thought I should chip in this !
Don't despair,panic or loose your senses.The time now should not be for self-guilt(a positive remorse is ok).Sometimes it's necessary to react in a healthy way.Be strong.Get the information you can get and concentrate on your options.

Put this behind you; will you ?



http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0952912104/qid=1127306152/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-7235999-9517562?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/3540221794/qid=1127306197/sr=8-7/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i4_xgl14/104-7235999-9517562?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

btw one story about sss:

my friend Wolfgang and me were in Florida on bussines trip. There we saw in one occasion two s together. Wolfgang got the idea and he explained to our US colleges that in our notebook it is imposible to write two s. You know because of similar abreviation from WWII. Guy said that he does not believe and Wolfgang told him to try to write it.
So guy tried quick to write ss. But nothing showed. Oh, he speaks true, he said. Then he tried slowly to write ss. But computer again did not show it. Hmm. This notebook is preety smart. He waits to see if I will write 2 s.
Then he tried to write only one s and than he got it:
-letter s didn't work at all.

Akshay you are a cheeky boy :-)

Hi all,

I am bit on my legs again.
I was having time to think over and over.It is true that I am gilty,but I ask my self yet..
- ICQ was aloud from my arbeitgeber to be installed.
- He was awear of it and there where amon others nickname of my friend.
- ICQ is with pass and login
- Kliking og nick name of some one other instead your or whatever
I ask my self,was that right?
Among the chat was also other privat things (nothing else for my employer) privat things of my feeling and situation and thinking (chat with friend)
It is true and fact that there was only writte one word, one word that I am shame of it, but several months before I was in real torture and trying desperately to be friend.I have never ever told someone in face, direct as person ow official write something bad.
Can I have bad thinking for something or somebody?
Do I know who thing god and who bad for me?
Have I right to search and reteal somebody of someone who thinks something?
Above all...has someone ask me why I have wrote that?
I seach the job.
If someone ask me then I tell that where missunderstanding between employer and me and he was reading my privat chats and email.
I would never-ever install or done something without aloud of emplower, and when he aloud me then I wil aloud my self to do something privat.
We where good friends, he was also talking to me and speaking of his feelings and mention of other people, remarks for other coulegues.
This is totaly privat revange and has nothing to do with my job, my atidute or whatever infront him.
I have public in news in apers in TV many times heard same word.
I wait till end of October 31(my birthday) if something came positiv I go on with learned lesson and seal for ever.
If not, live is live we all paid our dues somehow.

Hi Max,

Yes, that's the spirit man. I told you, no other can help you, but you yourself have to control yourself nerves.

Then, you can face any situation out of Aufenthalt as well as your employer.

I would only say that it was good for you to come out of such company/friend(kollege) safely.

Now, concentrate upon "Aufenthalt" and "Job Search".

Wish you best of luck.

A.T

I search an job...who nows something like free place, and can help, I thank I lot. PHP, ASP, ASP.NET, JAVA, XML, SOAP,FLASH, CSM,CAD,CATIA,SQL, MYSQL,DB2, ORACLE, NETWORK, WEBS...whatever.
Diplom 4th grad master - Technical direction(Kommonwelt-Australia,New Zealand verified Diploms)with Spezial Computer Certified Degree

PS.
And I wanted just to say...thank you a lot to all of you.

(PHP,ASP, ASP.NET, JAVA, XML, SOAP, FLASH, CSM, CAD, CATIA, SQL, MYSQL, DB2, ORACLE, NETWORK,WEBS...whatever)

Are you really expert in so many program? I mean the real expert, not only read the dummy for etc or 24 hour to enable something?

I am really curious

@VP_2004

(PHP,ASP, ASP.NET, JAVA, XML, SOAP, FLASH, CSM, CAD, CATIA, SQL, MYSQL, DB2, ORACLE, NETWORK,WEBS...whatever)

"Are you really expert in so many program? I mean the real expert, not only read the dummy for etc or 24 hour to enable something?", this can be done, because if I can only take a couple of those listed by max, I consider myself as in expert in ASP, JAVA, XML, SOAP, SQL, MYSQL, DB2, ORACLE, PHP and many other technologies/languages.

It all depends on what one has done in his life and how many time he spent on it. I'm 30 since last Wednesday, but I'm in the computer world since I was 13 personnally and since I was 18 professionnally, so that's a long time and one can know a lot, even if I prefer to concentrate myself on Java now.

And max, please send me a mail at daolwin at hotmail dot com, I think I might have something for you in Berlin, hoping your Aufenthalt won't be a problem because I made an interview yesterday in a company looking for CAD and CATIA people.

Have a nice week-end,

D.

it is a matter of definition I think.
I tend to agree the german definition of expert, not an american definition expert.

I have been in my field for almost 3 years, I still hesitate to declare myself as an expert because I know that there are a lot of other things that I still don't know. Although other people already consider me as an expert.

As I have said, I am curious.

Yes I work more then 12 years with computers, I have finished several schools and got Certified diplomas from Australia, New Zealand,Bulgaria and my born country.
I have worked in many companies over the world and last 5 yerars (exactly 5 years in 01.10.2005) in Germany.
I speak also very good several (6-7) foreign languages.


PS.
Dose someone know if I have right to ask for an 'Zeugnis' insituation with and from employer as mine?

@Max:

I think you are over qualified for a lot of job here. 5 years working experience and speak very good 6-7 foreign languages (is german one of them?). What a wonder!

If I were you with your wonderfull qualification, I will not worry at all about being kicked out from germany.

as far as I know, your new employer will ask for it and it is easier for you to explain why you leave the old company.

have a nice weekend.





Yes I work more then 12 years with computers, I have finished several schools and got Certified diplomas from Australia, New Zealand,Bulgaria and my born country.
I have worked in many companies over the world and last 5 yerars (exactly 5 years in 01.10.2005) in Germany.
I speak also very good several (6-7) foreign languages.


PS.
Dose someone know if I have right to ask for an 'Zeugnis' insituation with and from employer as mine?

@VP_2004

....it is a matter of definition I think.
I tend to agree the german definition of expert, not an american definition expert.

...german definition???? Are you planning to devote your entire(or half) life learning one technology/language to be called an expert? Come on, life is too short for such indulgence. An average computer programmer can learn a new Programmierungssprache in 3 months and be an expert in an year. By an expert here I mean that he knows enough to complete the job/project assigned to him. No one cares if I memorize 10000 of C++/Java classes with correct syntex, when all I need for my project is only 100 classes. WTF should I spend years and fill up my head with unnecessary information which I hardly can use. And if I need more information at all, then I can always look for it in books/internet.

I have been in my field for almost 3 years, I still hesitate to declare myself as an expert...
I feel pity for you, are you gonna spend 10 more years in your field to become a certified expert? And after 10 years what good it is when your technology/language has meantime become obselete?

I apologize if I have offended or you have missunderstood my word.
Simple word to say is be decent and avoid big mouth.

I won't pity myself to spend more time to master something. I am rather proud of it. Of course everybody has different opinion.

@VP_2004

well, you are not alone.

I think that what you mean with "german definition" is that here (I don't know USA) when they talk "expert", it means tha you have (recent) strong experience in that topic. That means that you are able to be productive from the first day.

It's very different to say that you are an expert because you will be able to migrate your knowledge quickly to what they need. They want to see professional experience backing your knowledge.

At the end, it's a very subjetive opinion...

i trust max, I think talents do exsit. I have a colleague about 35 years old, know nearly everything in computer field, from programming to design, from architecture to bug fixing, he can handle everything. sometimes i wonder how he can get all these experiences.
when u look at max's skill set carefully, u can find a lot of similarities among all the technologies, so it is easy to master all of them like a unit. for instance, if you know c/c++, it is easy for you master java in a short period. if you know java programming, for sure u have to know what is XML, XSLT, if you know oracle pretty well, mysql just a piece of cake etc.

Any news from you Max?

Did employer support your NE Antrag or not?
Found another job?
Got NE?

@DvD:

You missed a thread (from max):

http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/visa_questions/cheers_to_all_ne_holder_club_and_ex_gc_and_future_ne_holders

@fred

but being frank, when I read it, I really quite understood what max meant writting this. is he gone?

D.

I think Max is contemplating to leave D-land, but he has not told that explicitly. Just my guess.

What he quoted in the other thread are some lines from a beautiful poem (Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening) by Robert Frost :

"The woods are lovely dark and deep but I have promises to keep and miles to go before I sleep and miles to go before I sleep."

Hi all,

I am sorry that I have not respond, because I am very seeck and on the edge of my nervs.
Next Monday is my birthday and I just wait to see if something will happened till then.
I am still in DE but intend to leave it at the day of my birthday.



PS.
Frost ... yes it is my favorite.
I abdore also Hermann Hess...
"The man got what he wants at most always, when he did not need that any more" - Demian.

@max

It is your personal decision to leave DE. But why abdicate as loser? Fight for your right and prove yourself. If you have endured 5 years then may be you could even more. What didnt kill you, certainly made you stronger.

may are you mad max?
why are you leaving?
you can get another job in D and in the mean time you have right to ALG for a year.

I support DvD as I did earlier, bcz. you dont need to leave D, as you stayed here and are versichert for ALG.

Dont think too much about your Birthday and read Poems.

If you try, you may fight and stay here till you get another job. But, again, it depends upon your own decision and controlling your Nervs.

Please, dont mind it at all.

A.T

is he already weg?

@DvD

this we will only know from his next post.

@max

Happy b-day, bro. Remember the first thing you did when you were born, some couple of years ago on this day, you first screemed and cried entering the world, but you stopped as soon as your mom got you in her arms.
That's life: sometimes you cry, sometimes you don't.
And to remember a quote of a movie I saw a couple of years ago "everyday is a fight: some you win, some you loose, but you live to fight another day".

D.

Dear Max,

Now that you have begun to quote poets ....Dance to the music..dont give up !!!

When you in turbulent waters just listen to others DONOT take a decision yourself as it could be more on the wrong than right !!

Its my opinion. Stay on fight !! Win or loose ..but fight !!!

Thanks a lot to all of you.Thanks...
So many things are happening every day...today was the worst.
I got FristloseKündigung and where blamed for writting bad things for my ex Arbeitgeber and my collegues.
I have apply for NE before 2 Months exactly without any answer.
I was to a lawer and got prozess in Arbeitgericht on 19.10 where I got infor that the lawers between me and ex Firma must all finished or if not to go on another termin at 10.02.2006
On Arbeitgerich request I have apply in Arbeitsamt and they requested from me to collect all papers and inform them why I have not apply since the day of Kündigung (before one month)...
The collections of papers is on way I just wait for the Arebitbescheinigung from ex Arbeitgeber and finish the prozess.
By Arbeitgericht I was convicted that I have install visrus in the firma computers, speak and wrote many bad things for Bundes Republik Deutchland that I was writting how bad my ex Arbeitgeber is.... and many other things...
Sorry for saying..I am man, but I was craying cose worst I have not heard in my live.
Unfortenately I had an car rented as lising auto from the company for wich I have give personaly to my ex Arbeitgeber 2400€ cash in hand without any written documents for it.
That is another storry...I had to do that couse I was not having another choiche and also the security payment and everyting where also on the name of the company and I was giving 300€ each month on hand of the ex Arbeitgeber.
On court I was blamed that I had that never done and I am lier and have never paid so much money.
Unfortenately couse I have no writting documents I could done nothing.
I have paid that money for one year infront and never got that money back.
For that I can not do nothing.
In mean time the ex Arbeitgeber has inform Ausländerbehorde and other simmilar Amts in Germany about that I have wrote, that all Germany are n..i, that I am very dificult person, lier, that I install viruses in the firma and many other things...
I was today morning there to ask about my status couse my Visum endet at 24.11.2005.
I got an answer from Ausländerbehorde that I must immidiate and without any 'AnspruchÄ live Germany and have no rights for nothing.
No Arbeitlosinggeld, no Visum no Arbeit in Germany and what so ever.
I am presently with only 340€ in pocket - not enought for trip to my county....
I have fell away and immidiate go back to the lawer....today afternoon I got info that there is no more FristoloseKündigung but normal one and wit it I can go to Arbeitsamt for normal applying for ArbeitlosingGeld.
That is already finished between the lawers and I can have payment from company till 31.10.2005 - the day of my birthday.
So I suppose to receive it till end this week and finaly got some money couse I do not have any more.
The lawer told me that he will call Ausländerbehorde and inform them and then we shall see how on.
I asume that I will get any Aufenthalt (I pray to God that I can receive any kind and they can alloud me to search another job) and for that I have 4 week more.
I have call my county embassy couse as I got info from Ausländerbehorde that I coud be report in Polizeiamt for same accusations and have problems in Germany.
I have leaved all to the lawer and wait to see what happened.
In mean time I got information that in so called privat chat copy where no my name, not so bad words and nothing so offence for anyone not even for my colegues althow I was blamed for it also.
All this lies where supported from my colleg and in mean time 'best frend'...why he did so, I do not know.
I have sell all and I have just some money to get food for the children and I pray that if nothing happened I can go home.
The lawer told me that he has already make that I revceive normal Kündigung and make normal applying for Arbeotlosinggeld and I can search another job in Germany.
I do fight but...what can I do till 24.11.2005.
Oh yes...I got infor from the Beamter that I am hier in Germany according the It-ArgV and have only 5 years Aufnthalt and no matter what - I must leave DE after 5 years...nothing else.
I have ask him to show me that letter and what there is written, and he told me that I do not have rights for such request but only the lawer.
I am very seeck also and got Plumo-Asthma of previos flat and print pump in my mouth 3 times a day, and been requested from the ex flat owner to pay him 1500€ for 6 months heizung period.
This case is also over lawer and still got no answer...I wait.
So my friends... I was writting about this many months before and I new it...but what could I do and can done with out any rights:
"Aufenthalt beendet mit beendigung the Beschaftigung bei der firma XXXXX".
I was working 12-14 hours every day, Sunday-Saturday, I got no money for it, I was stolled 2400€, request to pay 1500€ also, blamed for terorist and ciminal in Behörde,Polizeiamt....and I do not know here else in wich institution, left alone in street and beated as dog with 'Hausverbot in the Kündigung', I can not even take my opticals from ex Firma...
I hope when I go home I will not be put in jail couse someone said something from me and I am placed in computer.
My wife...have tumour in halls and couse we do not have sozialversicherung she is at home without any control from doctor.
THIS IS THE WORST! I do not know how to akt any more.
I do not know no one in Germany hier, I do not know where to go and what and who to ask...
Where to go if I have to go...
And damm it is my birthday on Monday...37 years.
So ... 4 week and what happened...I do not know.
I can beleive it, I can not beleivet but all this is happening to me.

So this is my true storry believe it or not and I am in it with main roll.

@max

For a moment I thought I am reading a chapter from Kafka.

Your life isnt exactly going as planned, so what? Who's life is?

Let's consider the worst case scenerio:

It is 24.11.2005, you have been refused from Arbeitsamt for arbeitlosengeld , Ausländerbehörde didn't extand your visum and you are told to f*%&k off.

You can't leave your flat as your can't give 2 or 3 months required notice and you dont have money for refurnishing your flat, and you can't get your caution-money back and you dont really have enough money, so you can't buy flight-ticket for the whole family to go back home.

German govt. would certainly consider deporting you (to save your flight-ticket). But our frischgebackene bundeskanzlerin Merkel is hesitant to take the blame for the first deportation of a green-card holder. She wouldn't want to create such a scandal just after taking the Kanzleramt. The international press and opposition will fry her a**.

Looks like you can't leave Germany, even if you really really want to :-)

Max,

I am really sorry to hear your situation.
I think you have learnt a lot of stuff in the last month.
Germany is country with law, as I saw it, as foreigner, one has already a weak position, without any proof, we can say forget it.

wish you good luck!

Max, which country do you come from? Does your country have good doctors and nursing? I recommend you to take care of yours and your wife's health situation first in your home country if possible. I thought you worked in Germany for long time and would have saved some money to face such a situation.

I strictly recommend you to go back to your motherland in case you cannot find a solution through laywers or Trust7 services or even try for other countries in Europe or US.

The other workaround is through Detlef & Co. probably depending on how good is your case you can take it to the press, so ask for Trust7 services if there is something like that. By now already someone from press would have read your story. All the best!

max calm down
nothing can go wrong if you have good lawyer because:
- trial against you can not succed because they can not prove that it was you on chat or who got virus
- you have to get visa extension for a year minimum, cose you have right to ALG.
that bullsh.t that GC can not extend visa is part of history now.

so just calm down. with good lawyer process against you will fall, and you'll get year extension without not binded to firma.

take care: take a good lawyer for Ausl. Recht (VPMK) because your visa is still binded, so it not valid at the moment.
you SHOULD get BE long time ago.

talk to some good Ausl lawyer IMMIDIATELY about your AE extension. TAKE VPMK AND MAYBE YOU'LL GET YEAR AE EXTENSION IN FEW DAYS.
YOU CAN NOT WAIT PROCCES END TO ACT

@Max

I do not know how you lived in Germany and how much money you made but it is strange that after 5 years you do not have money or that you do not know anybody (high style life ).

Also for me it is strange that you do not have insurance expecially after your "Kuendigung" is changed to normal one so you will have to check this and to go to doctor.

If on court they can not proof anything about that what was a reason to fire you, you HAVE to put them on court for everything what they did to you. Talk with your lawer to charge company for all pain that they caused to you and your family. To charge => to ask for money to cover everything what you survived in last few months.

I am only curios do we know complete story between you and your employer because to me it looks like they are totally bad and you are almost ok and in my country is one expression that for fight you need two (and nobody is inocent).

I do not want to be negative or anything but without telling everything you can not expect that anyone here can give you smart advice.

@Max,

Based on my personal experience, if you have something to fight with your Arbeitg. Then, dont disappoint due to reaction by ABH/AA.

Here, you forgot that after 5 years of stay, you may still get your Pension-refund!!!(if you go back or I am not sure whether you may ask to deal with such situation).

But, as before, just concentrate on what DvD advised you and forget your Birthday at the moment. Dont forget you are a Foreigner and have to face this Dilema boldy (till you get NE :-))

BTW, you are not only the victim of such behavior(by some bad guys), but it depends how you control yourself to come out of such a situation.

One more thing, I am unable to understand here your point about "Leasing" matter.

Listen, dont be fool enough that others make misuse of it. If they informed to ABH/AA about your chat and other things, you too can inform Finanzamt, what "DEAL", your company made with you illegally and this can cause them a big problem in DE.

Finally, its a country where you have right to claim your right thru Lawyer(provided, you have something to claim).

Again, check, if your current Lawyer is not helping, then change to VPMK (as already advised by DVD). Why did not to call Mr. Detlef till now???

I wish you best of luck.

A.T

No I have not lived in high level and I had some money saved but as I have told there whre stolde from ex Arbeitgeber. Then I was making many medicine research for my wife and was sending money to my parents at home.
I was just working and no body else.
It is true that I am gilty also couse chatting over ICQ althow it was alowed from the ex Arbeitgeber and aproved.
But writting to Ausländerbehorde and informin many institutions that I am like terorist in Germany and what has been written against me....I found not right.
Behörde is categorical - no visum. I was told that I am hier with 5 years Aufenthalt and when it is finished I have to go out. No law give me right for anything else and I was told from the Beamter that many as me want to stay but it is a fact that I had to go.
I have show him the letter from BMI and he told that they had so but it is not an law for me.
Also they have gave me an form that must be fulfiled from the new employer (if I get some job) and must be prooved first for German, then EU then me.
Taking VPKM lawer is to late and as I said I have no money.
The case about Kündigung is resolved I have normal one that has resolved my lawer.
Only problem is that Behörde do not give me any visum couse are categorical and I have only 4 months till end of present visum.
Even applying for ARG - I have no time for it couse I have no chance to stay more then next 3 weeks.
I have an prozess at 10.02.1006 for all this mess, but...I have no visum to stay more then 24.11.2004.
And how to fight and say that I have not done something bad or what so ever when I am not aloud to stay and proove it.
Then, I was living one and a half months without any money and payment I was in 2 interview for job in two cities and that cost.
Then I have paid the lawer and that cost also.
I just do not understand why Behörde did not givme right to explain what has happened and chanche to proove it that I am not gilty.
I can not more talk with the Beamter, he has giveme back the pass and told me that I have to go.
I was waiting 2 months for any visum and finaly when I was there yesterday I was told that...why they where waiting so long and did not inform me before I do not know.
I was told that I am gilty couse I have not went there before.
But I was several times and phoning many times to ask.
I can fight and I want but only my problem is to make some visum verlangerung and have some time to proove it.
I hope that the lawer can succeed it.
Last hope is People Court Right in Strasbourg.
I thing I have right for visum verlangerung in case of normal Kündigung and it was resolved that I am not gilty.
The Behörde can geve me few months more at least to rechek all docuemnts and recosinder my status.
They can not make decision of some letter from ex Arbeitgeber where he blamed me and convincing me for terrorismus.
That thing I can also do for any one but it has to be prooved and not just throw someone in street.
Yes this storry has an big problem in middle...that is that my ex Employer can not stand that someone can get NE and go if he want.
He wanted total control over me and to stay there and do as he want so.
That is the problem.He found out that I want to go after I get some visum...I was betrail from my coulleg at job, thats why he told me that after him I can pack the bags and go home...and he is doing.
It is an play from German in Germany as Employer with firma in Germany and so much money in account, with several lawers and Aüsländer from non EU county in Germany with visum bindet to his firma and time of 4 weeks till visum end.
Damn what mess...

MAX YOU ARE IDIOT

you say you can not get VPMK because you do not have money but truth is:
YOU HAVE TO TAKE VPMK TO GET MONEY and it could go really quick. EVEN WITHOUT JOB YOU HAVE RIGHT FOR 1 YEAR EXTENSION.
so
TAKE VPMK
GET A YEAR AE EXT AND ALG
and than you can slowly find job and winn cases

VPMK does not take money in advance so you will get ALG 12 x ~1200€ and you will pay VPMK only few hundreds.
VPMK are cheap for AE extension, only NE is expensive, but you will not get NE now

Man, it looks like you only post on the forum when things are going wrong and that you don't take time to read what all the other people go thru.

But writting to Ausländerbehorde and informin many institutions that I am like terorist in Germany and what has been written against me... I found not right., only this can be a reason for you to sue them, if I was you, I would have and without any second thought.

Behörde is categorical - no visum. I was told that I am hier with 5 years Aufenthalt and when it is finished I have to go out. No law give me right for anything else and I was told from the Beamter that many as me want to stay but it is a fact that I had to go, then how come people like me are still here after 5 years? I'm making today 5 years and 6 days in Germany and I'm still here. I didn't request for asylum, I didn't married a German nor a EU citizen, they handed me my NE according to the law and because there's a law about that, if not, I would have been long gone.

I have show him the letter from BMI and he told that they had so but it is not an law for me., you showed them but what did you told them about that? It is not enough to show, it is also important to say and speak.

Also they have gave me an form that must be fulfiled from the new employer (if I get some job), yeah that proves that you can stay here, because why would have they given it to you if you weren't supposed to be here anymore?

and must be prooved first for German, then EU then me you're here for more than 3 years working (a lot of people were in this case) and even not working, more than 4 years living (I was in this case), so you need no AMC, but gotta have a EG or at least a BE.

Taking VPKM lawer is to late and as I said I have no money., as my wife told me many times these last days, all in Germany is about talking, if you really got no money, you can just express your problem to them, they will understand you and see how they can help you, een if you got nothing in hand. I'm not talking like someone who has heard about them, I've worked with them and I'm still doing things with them. They are good, very good and I'm not regretting having crossed their path, in fact, I'm asking myself why I should go to any other lawyer now.

Only problem is that Behörde do not give me any visum couse are categorical and I have only 4 months till end of present visum., I thought you had less than that, or am I missing something?

Even applying for ARG - I have no time for it couse I have no chance to stay more then next 3 weeks., see now you go at it again, just one § above, you talk about 4 months and now you're back to 3 weeks? What wrong with you dude? Am I missing something or are you not expressing yourself very clearly?

I have an prozess at 10.02.1006 for all this mess, if you got a process in February next year, then they will have to give you the necessary time to go in this process
but...I have no visum to stay more then 24.11.2004., see, now again, i thought it was 4 months. Is it 4 months or less than that?

And how to fight and say that I have not done something bad or what so ever when I am not aloud to stay and proove it, by telling the truth.

I just do not understand why Behörde did not givme right to explain what has happened and chanche to proove it that I am not gilty., then you can request your lawyer the right to do it, you can't judge someone by only the testimony of one part.

I can not more talk with the Beamter, he has giveme back the pass and told me that I have to go., how come? you still have some time on your visa, don't you?

I was told that I am gilty couse I have not went there before., guilty is a big word, but you do have to check things with ABH at least every 2 weeks, that's what I always do, they will never hang up on you.

Last hope is People Court Right in Strasbourg. I thing I have right for visum verlangerung in case of normal Kündigung and it was resolved that I am not gilty., I thought they already declared you guilty, as you said before.

Yes this storry has an big problem in middle...that is that my ex Employer can not stand that someone can get NE and go if he want.
He wanted total control over me and to stay there and do as he want so., then you can go on and sue him for psychological threat, go see a doctor and let him examine you and declare that you got problem because of that.

D.

go see a doctor and let him examine you and declare that you got problem because of that.

mmmhhhahaha! MAX is now MAD MAX. sorry dude get things right first. All of them are scratching heads here for you it is really a pity situation . Please don't post big messages because it is leading all of us in a confusing situation along with your language.

Re: URGEN HELP NEEDED - MAX GOT KUNDIGUNG!

About visum ... it is 4 weeks valid more.
Sorry for 4 months...hand shaking.
Big messages...you are right.
I will not write any messages any more.
I was...I am full. I do not know why I was writting and informing.
I was thinking that some help from people to people can help.
I was just wanting to worn some of you that problems like this are real.
I suppose that many have similar problems and over TRUST can in some way resolved, as that one with BMI and letter and I can hear some advice and make something.
One is true...and it is final....I do not wish any of you bad and problems and something so bad as it is happening to me.

Now that's something, we killed ourselves writting in more than 8 pages (one of the more spreading topic on the forum) and you think you got no help from us? What, which kinda help do you wanted us to give you? Only advices could be given and that's what we did during all the posts or are you not able to see it?

Man, I really feel insulted for having taking all my time, writting that much and ended up being said "sorry, you've said and done nothing".

D.

I started something in order to help max.
He is not acting reasonably and I think we should help him because he is not able to help him self any more:

http://www.trust7.com/index.php/de/forums/visa_questions/urgen_help_needed_from_detlev_and_vpmk

@NoBody,

as DvD correctly said ... he seems to be completly lost ... And its normal for someone who has undergone all these problems ...

I think the biggest problem he is currently facing is lack of enough funds for his daily needs ... I would suggest that we could contribute some money through trust7 to help him with his present situation ...

Then maybe someone should really talk to him in person ... he may not read the messages posted here ... or may not take it in the correct sense or with the right spirit ...

I personaly do not think he needs money.
I think he needs guidance.
Because of that I would concentrate on doing the right moves in order to get him AE extension with VPMK as sooner as possible.
Money will not help him do the right moves.

Acctually if we get AE extension and ALG for him that is some kind of financial help.

@NoBody:

dont get offended. Any one who is at the edge of such things will feel bad and depressed.


@max:

can you post ur email address here?


@ all:

Does anyone know max personally? Maybe someone who´s living nearby should visit and talk to him. Where is he living? All he needs is support.

I am presently with only 340€ in pocket - not enough for trip to my county....

This is what prompted me to say that we should raise some funds to help him out ... 340EUR is definitely not enough to sustain 4 lives for 4 week, forget about other expenses he might have during this period.

But I think much more important is someone talking to him personally ... That would surely give him more courage ...

And I get the strange feeling that he wont read our messages ... This was his last remark ...

I will not write any messages any more.
I was...I am full. I do not know why I was writting and informing.

Does someone know him personally ?? Someone living close to him ?? He is really very depressed and badly in need of some kind words.

THANK YOU ALL....
SORRY I AM MAN BUT I WAS CRYING...I did not know I mean I was, I am on the edg.
THANK YOU ALL.
THANK YOU FROM THE BOTHOM OF MY HEART.
I call tomorow first thing the lawer hier and see what has happened. He told me he resolve the situation with Behörde.
He told me that he has resolve the problem with the ex Employer and frestoloseKündigung and I will get normal Kündigung.
Tomorrow I phone him to see what he has done with Ausländeramt.
If they aprove and gemme some visum verlangerung I can get some ArbeitlosingGeld.
I nothing happened tomorrow...I call Mr Detlef and see what can be solved with him.
He is very nice preson we have meet in Berlin.
THANK YOU ALL.
THANK YOU!

What do you think how good is your lawyer with ZuwG. If they are not experts it is better that they not learn on you. Those BE, EG, GC nad NE things are not to learn in few days. What is even worse, if they are not good with ZuwG they could ask ABH to explain it to them. That would be REALLY BIG SH.T.

So ask them clearly are they good with ZuwG,
do they know that you should allready have BE in your pocket,
do they know that GC should be treated as unbefristete ArbErl,
do they know that you must get 1 year extension because you have right to ALG?

@Max,

Yes, and you will see that with the Lawyer or help from Mr. Detlef, you will not leave Germany.

Now, you seem to be cool and ofcourse, you should forget it like a nightmare to start your job search without any stress.

Just to satisfy you, I too paid 2 months extra Miete, as my 1st Arbeitgeber took it as BarGeld from me without any Quitung(as this is normal practice in our 3WC), and I too was threatened, not to inform officials, otherwise, he would contact my next Arbeitgeber.

But, this did not let me believe that everybody in this country is doing like that and its due to our own mistake to believe others.

Now, I try to take care of this :-)

I know, that like GCs, who came to work and did't misuse any Govt-Funds and rather pay handsome Taxes/Rente. If you compare your situation with someone who comes here with Asylum(Pls. no offend to anybody) status and still is getting every benefit.

So, I find yourself just not aware of your rights to stay here and fight for your rights, if someone abuses.


I hope, this helps a bit.

A.T