Dear Friends,

How about the career growth prospects for non-natives in German IT companies ?.

Ofcourse, I understand that language would be a barrier. Even, if we learn to speak fairly but still we can't equate with native speakers.

Apart from language, are there equal/enough/fair opportunities for growth? Or, Will we just remain as programmers or so called Software Engineers, till the end.

This question is plaguing my mind for sometime...

I am currently in the position of Technical Leader in my parent company in India and sure to become Technical Manager in another two years.

When I started looking for job here, I realized that I can't get something equal (Technical Leader) here. I have only the option to be a Software Engineer, noting more than that.

Dear guys, kindly share your experiences relevant to career prospects, salary hike etc. I am sure those would be valuable for me and other new job seekers...

Thanks & Regards
Kumaran

Hi Kumaran,
Managerial positions occupancy in Germany for non germans is a very challenging task.Generally very difficult (but not impossible) for people coming from Asia,unless you have been transferred from a US concern to the branch office in DE.Another way being leading the german branch of your asian firm.
Other than these two possibilities,you can acheive a position of a department leader(abteilung leiter) ,managing people but for that you would require a very long stint in the company.Remember grey hairs have values here ;))
Unlike US,culturally these positions belong to natives.
But with good performance,talent and of course a lot of patience!,,, its possible.
ciao
GnR

Hi Kumaran,

German economy is a technology oriented economy and I suppose German companies generally recruit qualified foreigners for technical roles. Secondly, the service industry here is quite small when compared to that of the US or other countries. So you might not be able to see that spectrum of jobs in the market.

Ofcourse, for the kind of role you are talking about (Leader / Manager) means lot of communication is required with colleagues / customers. If you can pretty much handle that you have a fair chance.

From an Indian perspective, it would be a good idea if you look for jobs at MNCs that have a lot do with say America or Asia. Your chances for growth should be better there.

Best of luck!.

AB

I think there isn't too many manager position to be filled in. My current manager has worked for the company for more than 10 years and reached his position now. To be honest, I don't see too much chance.
You are really great hoping to get manager position here, freshly from indian :-)
Anyway good luck.

Yo Kumaran,

Think about it..... You can not speak German, so how good of a manager would you be? Communication is the number one thing for a manager. Imagine if a German went to India and could not speak English or Hindi or whatever the local language would be. How good would he be?

Before you pack up your rice bags and go to another country and whereever you go, you should first think about many other things like language, culture etc, before you think about a job or career in that country.

I have to laugh at all of the Indians who want to come here and then when they are here cry like babies. The are not nice to me. They treat me like a foreier. bla bla bla....

Think about it. Why do you think Germans MAY not like foreigners coming so much? Many come and can not speak the language and do not even try nor care about the country. Even in this forum. Most CGers can not speak good German. Why? You say you are smart!! You have lived here for 3, 4 years!!!!!! That is because you have no interest in this country, only interest in getting something from this country. NE, citizenship, money! Why would you want to be a citizen in a place where you can not speak the language at a proper level and you can not speak the language only for one reason; You are too lazy to learn!!!!

Kumaran it would be best if you pick another place to manage!!!!

Later,
Cool Dude

p.s. This post is not meant to hurt anyone, but just to speak the truth.......

Kumaren,

Are you in India or Germany? This post sounds like you are in India, but you made another post in the forum asking help for a job and say you are in Germany for 2 years. If you have been in Germany for 2 years, which you wrote in the other post, do you really need to ask this question? You should already know!!!!

And what does this mean? "I have only the option to be a Software Engineer, noting more than that." Nothing more than that!!!!! But you have asked in another post that people from this forum, who are just "Nothing more than small little Software Engineers", to help you find a job........ What a baby......

Dude stay in India and if you are in Germany go back to India!!!!!!

Later,
Cool Dude!

Dear Cool Dude,
I understand you completely. But I would like to say that you had perceived my postings in a wrong context, that might be because of your past experiences and implied perceptions.

German is not an easy or simple language to master it just like that. It is so rich in its expressions (compared to English), that it takes decades to master it. That is the reason even after 2 or 3 years of stay, still we are finding hard to speak fluently. Not because of laziness as you might tend to think.

Any way this language barrier is like a double ended sward, people also find it difficult and Germany also finds it difficult to get talents from outside.

>Why do you think Germans MAY not like foreigners >coming so much

I did not say this anywhere in my post. These are all the result of your implicit perceptions.

I am currently working in Germany, but I don't come under direct German management. That is the reason, I wanted to get some knowledge from others experience about carrer prospects under direct German management.

I never deny the importance of language nor complete integration with the society :-))

What ever I said about Software Engineer is just out of momentary (self) frustration, that's it. It is not certainly for demeaning the job.

Dude, I hope now you take it cooly.

Regards
Kumaran

Hi Cool Dude,

Your sentence

"Before you pack up your rice bags and go to another country and whereever you go, "

has a bit of racist tones. So please avoid it next time. But your other comments about indians are most of the times on target.

Cheers
Rajesh

Hi Coool Dude,
welcome back!!
u r again on india(n) bashing!!.

Hi Kumaran, pl. ignore Coool Dude, poor guy, he has lost his job to an Indian.

regards,
kalakkal

Yo raj, Did not try to sound racist. Do not be so sensitive!!! I mean all Germans wear Lederhosen, oder? Lighten up a little.....

@kalakkal Did not loose my job to an Indian...... A matter of fact many companies do not waste time on hiring Indians and no I am not bashing. They got sick of talking to Indians who say, I have good German, but can not even order a meal and also Indians who are 23 or 25 years old and have more on a CV than is possible after working 20 years in IT. I am not saying all Inidans, but many. This is true. The Indians apply for every job...... I mean they get CVs from same people for DB Admins, Network Admins, Java Programmers, Support, SAP, bla bla bla. Come on, you can not have so much experience and be an expert in everything.... It takes 5 - 10 years min. to be good and have good experience in any one of these areas. If they can spell the word or see it in the internet, then they are expert in it. Just look at the article about Indians getting priority for visa in Frankfurt. That is not true, but the Indian paper wrote this. It is for everyone Think about it!!!!!

Later,
Cool Dude!

I dont think this is a place where need to comment on once talent.
I request the moderator to intervene and close the thread.

A

Cool dude , U r very cool.

This week end please try to kick out some indians from germany ..That would be a fun job for u .

If still no luck , Please try to become like them u will achieve ur goal .

Have a nice week end ....hahahahahahahahahahaha


BYE

Yo AJAY,

You can not shut down something just because you do not like it!!!!!!!!!!

You can not stop reality!

Later,
Cool Dude!

very funny!!
ha ha ha.
Coool Dude, Thanks to you,
my weekend has started in funnier note.

Hi ajay,

I just want you to know, that I watch it, but I do not see why to close the thread.

Believe me, the older members of trust7 know other messages from 'Cool Dude' and in the past, I already 'fired' him out of the forum. But this time...

I still not agree with the 'later cool dude', mostly, but I and you and everybody has to accept, that there are different points of view.

Just try to take it with a sense of humor, which is a sign for a very selfassured and educated person :-)

A nice weekend to all of you
Detlef

what I really do not like about India is caste system, but I can understand that guy from india with 25 has much more experience than german.
in India school system is better than in Germany. Actually it is everywhere better than in Germany. Germany does prodece very good Ings and experts but with age of 30-35.
In India it is achievable with 22.
German system is very good for companies but not for people.
It is true that indians have with same age 2 times more experience than germans but that is becuase of slow school system in D.

@DVD

Where does this caste system come in between..for that matter of fact there are also different categories in christianity and islam. Why dont people talk about them.

Anyway We are not debating here about what people like about india and what not. Pls dont post ur own opinions about some ethnics and countries.

Greetings,
vamsi.

coool dude is a little bit too extreme, but I did see some truth in what he said.
One friend said he has got the lecture in his university and didn't come to the class, finally he failed almost all the exam :-).

So be decent and talk only if it is necessary. Show quality in working and result, not in talking.


have a nice weekend!

Hi you Guys,

as I said before don't waste your time in germany. I speak fluently german, like a native, no accent, know thje german way of life and have more than 20 years experience and ma not from india and can tell you that foreigners have NO chance to get in higher positions. I have had myself departmant manager positions with big german companies, it is a waste of time and effort. I am freelancing right now as a manger for hire and am hired to put out fires, which is ok and pays well, I will leave gernmany in 6 month, I am sure all the russian and eastern european immigrants have nothing to complain here, they blend in and are much more savy than any of you guys can ever be.
A bit about my current projekt which has also to do with india. The software was written in india, some DB with SQL stuff, they have sent a couple of indian guys to install it. They have been sending daily builds from india, no version control, no supervison and and ... and the poor guys here suppose to make it run, I don't even want to know what the daily phone bills to india have been. And then of course the inidan guys are treated badly, even from the people who have nothing to do with the project...
The guys have been put in some 2 star hotels in a small town with no help, absolutly no help with their daily lives... and I thought slavery was a thing of a past.
Wake up guys this is not a country where you can make careers, even their own women can't do.
All this is in a small town in Bavaria, south. I am not even sure if it is even safe for these guys with all the neonazis in the south.
And some of you want rto become Managers?? Well, it may be a good joke.


Cheers

Hi Ajay, hi *,

now you can see what I mean. I just read the message of JJ and how he speaks about Germany, and I am a German and I do not agree with him, but I do not delete this message!

I do not even give a comment.

Have a nice weekend
Detlef