"Für hoch qualifizierte Akademiker mit fremdem Pass öffnet Deutschland die Tore - auf dem Papier. Im richtigen Leben sollen Vorzeigemediziner Samer Nakib und Mobilfunk-Experte Seoung-Hoon Oh die Koffer packen, trotz Zuwanderungsgesetz."

http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/jobundberuf/0,1518,333212,00.html

Quelle: Spiegel

Sad story but true reality, ain't it?

D.

Ich denke, daß dieser Bericht sehr übertrieben ist. Da nach dem Zuwanderungsgesetz kann Student nach dem Studium eine Angemessene Arbeitsstelle suchen. (Mindestens in IT-Bereich nach BeschV).

Yeah but Kieffer-chirugie is far from IT, even if they all use some IT things there.

D.

"Mobilfunk-Experte Seoung-Hoon" ist aber im IT-Bereich!

what's really sad is that this studium Germany payd with 200-500k €. It is maybe even more than this second number because it is really special studium.
And this guy could never give it back according to Beamter (if he would not marry german girl).
So this Beamter and all the others just throw away money, and on the other side we all pay for it with taxes.
for example we pay Arbeitslosversicherung and if we really get arbeitslos now we get much less than before from it.
So they are cutting there where should give (ALG) and they throw money that they should keep (tax and renten that this guy would pay while working after studium)

AFTER SHORT TIME WHEN RENTENKASSE GOES BANKRUPT THEY WILL SAY THAT WE DO NOT GET ANY RENTEN ALLTHOUGH WE PAID RENTENVERSICHERUNG, JUST BECAUSE OF SUCH BEAMTERS THAT THROW AWAY MONEY THAT BELONGS TO ALL OF US.

Well, it's sad, but this has nothig to do with our(GC) situation, we all have already a job, and begining with 01.01.2005 our GC will be transformed in a everlasting residency permit (just read the new law and the add-on laws).
So, I admit, this situation it's said, but this is not concerning the GC holders.

Hi ivel,
Which Add On? will every one get a permanent residence permit??

greetings,
suji

Dear mailsuji, read this forum more often and you will be informed very well. I think this time I will save this in notepad on desktop and make copy/paste when somebody asks next time:

1) Your current work permit is considered as unlimited, starting from 1.1.05.
2) You can work in your current company as long as you want them and as long as they want you

if ((1) + (2) > 5_Years) {
you_can_get_permanent_residence();
}

Verordnung über die Zulassung von neueinreisenden Ausländern zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung
(Beschäftigungsverordnung - BeschV)
vom 22. November 2004

8. Abschnitt - Schlussvorschriften

§ 46 Übergangsregelungen

....


(2) Die einer IT-Fachkraft nach § 6 Abs. 2 der Verordnung über die Arbeitsgenehmigung für hoch qualifizierte Fachkräfte der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie erteilte befristete Arbeitserlaubnis gilt als unbefristete Zustimmung zum Aufenthaltstitel zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung fort.

Hi,

What does it mean??????
if ((1) + (2) > 5_Years) {
you_can_get_permanent_residence();
}

greetings

Hi Cedomir,

[1) Your current work permit is considered as unlimited, starting from 1.1.05.]

If my current WP is till 2006, should I go to Arbeitsamt on 01.01.05 to make it unlimited. Sorry for asking it again, if the question is already asked in an other thread.

Thanks in Advance,

Best Regards,
GC-Friend

According to immigration law after you have completed 5 Years in Germany you can get permanent residence, if you are allowed to work further. The GC is limited to 5 years, and it was not so clear if GC can get permanent residence. However, good people from german government decided that current work permits for the GCs are valid for infinite period of time. If you have job and work permit, immigration office must give you the residence permit and you can extend your stay, and request permanent residence permit after 5 years. So GCs have now kind of security to be able to stay in Germany. Read more about it previous posts in this forum.

The work permit is extended by the means of law, but we have to wait and see what will immigration office(s) say. For me it would not be a big surprise to hear in Ausländeramt "We cannot extend your visa because your work permit has expired. The Arbeitsamt has to extend your work permit.". Then you go to Arbeitsamt, and they say "we are not issuing any work permits after 01.01.05". :-) :-) :-)

Then you go home, and some more people go home, and then there is an article in "Spiegel" or somewhere else, and then perhaps they start to do it as they should :-) :-)

One friend of mine alrady went to AB to ask about possibilities about extending his green card visa. Most interesting part: "we do not work according to law, we work according to durchführungsvorschriften which we get from our boss".

Since it is so, I will find a good lawyer to do this for me.

hallo cedomir,

ich denke, du bist schlecht informiert bzw. falsch informiert! Aber bitte verbereit nicht deswegen falsche Information an Alle!!!. Die Zuständigkeit für Arbeitserlaubnis ist ab 01.01.2005 bei der Ausländerbehörde. Meinst du, daß Ausländerbehörde selber nicht weiß???!!!!

Die sogenannte Durchführungsvorschrift ist für GC die §46 Absatz 2 in BeschV. Darin ist klar geregelt....Und diese BeschV ist sowohl von Bundestag, als auch von Bundesrat zugestimmt. Es ist verbindlich für nächste 5 Jahre!!!

Also, erst mal richtig informieren lassen, bevor du Quatsch in die Welt verbreitest...

Danke

Sorry GC-Holder100. Could you please explain it in English. Couldnt understand completely?

Thanks

Hi GC-Holder100 ,
But where is the "Quatsch" in cedomir's comments .
On the contrary he laid some facts about his experience with ABH and praised the recent law of immigration .
On one side we have good laws/regulations to encourage IT people to come to Germnay .
But on the other hand you face barriers in ABH .
Some ABH beamters are either not reluctant to give answers or simply give NO when in doubt !!
I have seen a logged practical question on the folowing form :
http://www.xonder.at/cgi-bin/yabbserver/foren/F_0134/YaBB.cgi?board=zuw;action=display;num=1101406086

but no answer ( PS : a lot of ABH beamters are members on this form ) .

So where is the truth ?

Thanks

wenn man die deutsche Sprach nicht beherrscht, dann hast du natürlich Problem in der Ausländerbehörder, da du erstens deine Frage nicht exact fromulieren/argumentieren und zweitens die Beamt nicht exact verstehen kannst. Die Beamten sind nicht verpflicht, dich zu beraten. Aber wenn du exact auf die Verordnung hinweist, dann gibt es kein Problem, da die Beamter auch keine Lust haben, mit dir in einen Rechtstreit zu verwirken, in den sie Unrecht haben.

Die Aussage von ihm ist deshalb Quatsch, weil die Situation, die durch mangelnde Sprachkenntnis verursacht ist, hat mit allgemeiner Situation nichts zu tun!!!!

Außerdem eine Voraussetzung für PR ist die Beherrschung der deutschen Sprach.

Hi GC-Holder 100,

Thanks for your strong explanations. I am already aware that one has to be fluent in German incase one has to get PR.

Best Regards,
GC-Friend

gc holder
first of all cedomir was joking.
second: joke was completely well placed because Beamters really haben keine Ahnung,
and such a thing is easily immaginable.
that goes for AB and AA too.
so stop nonsence about us being guilty for not knowing german as if that is source of all problems.
Beamter haben keine Ahnung
and that has nothing to do with us.
And we get in problems because they know nothing.

If you rallly think they know their job than i can only say:
Wo wohnst du?

Außerdem eine Voraussetzung für PR ist die Beherrschung der deutschen Sprach.
GC-Holder100

that is not true
according to law one has to know german only to be able to communicate in simple way if he came before 1.1.

GC-Holder 100,

Take it easy man. You dont have to defend ABHs. This is not a question of ABH, this is more a question of German mentality. Political parties like CDU/CSU exist, because there are individuals living in Germany who think like them and who support them. Some of those supporters even work in ABH. You see, we can not actually abstract this mentatility problem from German Society. So take it easy and breath, try to make up your mind before you defend smt so blindly. I have seen people who had problems, although they could speak fluent german. I have seen Germans who had problems in ABH, when they tried to marry/invite a foreigner. Do they also have communication problems as native german speakers ?
By the way, most of the GC-Holders do speak fluent german after 4-5 years of residence in Germany. You are not the only holy person who can "control" this language. How did you actually conclude that the posters here can not speak German ?
Regards
Lacrima


Sei ganz ruhig. Du brauchst nicht die ABHs zu verteidigen. Das ist nicht eine Frage der ABH, sondern mehr eine Frage der deutschen Mentalität. Die politische Partein wie CSU/CDU existieren, weil Leute wie sie denken, auch in Deutschland existieren. Einige Anhänger davon arbeiten so gar in den ABHs. Siehst Du, wir können eigentlich an dieses Problem nich unabhängig von der deutschen Gesellschaft denken. Also, sei ganz Ruhig und atme durch, bevor Du etwas so blinderweise verteidigst. Ich habe auch Leute gesehen, die in den ABHs Probleme gehabt haben, trotz ihrer ausgezeichneten deutschkentnissen. Ich habe so gar Deutsche gesehen, die Probleme hatten, wenn sie (mit) einem(r) Ausländer(in) heiraten/einladen wollen. Hatten sie denn auch Kommunikationsprobleme als Muttersprachler ?
Übrigens, meiste GC-Inhaber sprechen ganz fließend deutsch nach ihrem 4-5 jahrigen Aufenthalt in Deutschland. Du bist nicht die einzige heilige Person, die diese Sprache "beherrschen" kann. Wie kommst du darauf, dass die Leute, die hier Beiträge schreiben, kein Deutsch können.

Gruss

Lacrima

@DVD

Three Cheers to you! Also my cheers to you for contributing a lot to T7 forum.

A great relief. Would there be some kind of examination at ABH to test our German proficiency? I can communcate in German but restricted to only BASICS like shopping, with friends, etc. I cannot write a formal letter in German. Do you think it is sufficient to have basic German while applying for PR? Do you also think some course certificates in German Communication would be of some help? I still have a year and half time to go for a PR. Any advice?

Best Regards,
GC-Friend

"A great relief. Would there be some kind of examination at ABH to test our German proficiency? I can communcate in German but restricted to only BASICS like shopping, with friends, etc. I cannot write a formal letter in German. Do you think it is sufficient to have basic German while applying for PR? Do you also think some course certificates in German Communication would be of some help? I still have a year and half time to go for a PR. Any advice?"

you don't have to worry, it is probably allready enough. there will be courses and tests but only for newcomers.

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Of course that I was joking :-) However, I did made multiple experiences with immigration office which I dislike. Since I already pay for their services, and since all tax payers pay for their services, what I expect there is polite treatment according to valid laws and decrees.

There are many known examples where immigration offices required the umemployed GC owners to leave Germany immediately. After that, there was a letter from german ministry of interior, where they were asked to stop such practices.

Although I speak German, the treatment was always what I have expect.

For this reason I will communicate regarding important issues with immigration office only via lawyer.

:-)

----------------------------------------------
Natürlich dass es sich hier um einen Witz handelt ! Dennoch ich habe mehrere Erfahrungen gemacht mit der Ausländerbehörde die ich nicht mag. Da ich schließlich für die Leistungen die AB aufbringt bezahle, und dass die alle Steuerzähler dafür bezahlen, was ich erwarte ist höfliche Behandlung die geltenden Gesetzen und Verordnungen enspricht.

Es sind bekannt mehrere Beispiele wo die arbeitslose GC inhaber innerhalb drei Tagen aus Deutschland ausreisen mussten. Danach folgte Schreiben von Bundesinnenministerium wo die AB aufgefordert waren solche Praxis sofort einzustellen.

Obwohl ich Deutsch spreche, die Behandlung war trotzdem nicht immer das was ich erwarte.

Deswegen bestehe ich drauf mit ABH in wichtigen Angelegenheiten künftig nur über einen Rechtsanwalt zu sprechen.

---------------------------------------------
Ich spreche auch einige andere Sprachen, sowie auch andere Leute die dieses Forum benutzen :-) Trotzdem versuchen wir immer Englisch zu sprechen, da wir uns so alle gut verstehen können.

Sind wir in Kindergarten oder was? In der Verordnung ist alles für GC klar geregelt!
Die Zukunft ist relative sicher für GC, wenn er eine Job hat. Ich will Niemand verteidigen.
Es mag sein, daß es einige Beamter in ABH gibt, die nicht gut informiert sind. Das habe ich auch
Mal persönlich erlebt. Aber nachdem ich auf die Gesetze hingewiesen habe, war auch alles
In Ordnung. Was es mich stört, ist die ganze schwarze Malerei und das Verhalten wie in
Kindergarten. Was sollte noch in der Verordnung stehen, damit du dich „sicher“ fühlst???

Wenn man nicht in der Lage ist, sein Recht in ABH nach dem Gesetz durchsetzt, sollte er zahlen und
Einen Anwalt nehmen. Aber bitte nicht diese unnötige schwarze Malerei!!!!

Razlika između sigurne i "relativno sigurne" budućnosti je velika. Upravo "relativno sigurna" budućnost je tačno ono što me brine :-), pogotovo ako je parametar koji unosi relativizam u čitavu priču ured za strance :-)

ok, now that we've all shown that we do speak gut German, could we go back to English please, most because I really don't want to play the guess-what-I-said game with what cedomir just wrote :-)

Some people around here have problem understanding German, so please do them a favour and write as they can understand us.

You won't help some1 if you give him advices in a language he can't comprehend and this forum is about help, so let's play fair.

Maybe it's the Xmas-presents-not-yet-bought pressure, but this will pass :-)

D.

Its one of my dream that one day I understand German like how the locals understand. I am waiting for that day as it is respect to the country where we live and earn. Hope I work enough to fulfill my dream. :-)

Best Regards,
GC-Friend

Dragi Cedomire,

ako mislis da te ama bas nitko na ovom forumu ne razumije, onda se grdno varas ;-)

jos jedan

Hello experts,

Going back to the following comment:

1) Your current work permit is considered as unlimited, starting from 1.1.05.
2) You can work in your current company as long as you want them and as long as they want you

we all have the work permit for the limited duration which is tied up to some company. So after 1.1.05 we have an unlimited work permit for this particular company? Is this correct?

If so, supposing we change the company, we need to change our workpermit at ABH? Can a lawyer then fight it to have it unlimited wp for this new company?

Sorry if i sound too stupid.

Thanks

Sun

@Sun

>So after 1.1.05 we have an unlimited work permit >for this particular company? Is this correct?

Yes, this is correct.

>If so, supposing we change the company, we need
>to change our workpermit at ABH?
>Can a lawyer then fight it to have it unlimited
>wp for this new company?

This is a big question. But I think you cannot get unlimited RP with restrictions. The law does not allow this. What we perhaps could get is another 2-5 yrs for current company. But after 1.1.05 there is no work permit any more. So you cannot change it at ABH. You get new visa, and this is at the same time work permit and residence permit. This is what I have understood. However, ABH decides about everything.

Oh yes, the ones who understand german could read the following document http://doku.iab.de/werkber/2003/wb0703.pdf It is written by worker of Arbeitsamt, she talks little bit about our problems and generally about green card. This report is little bit old, however I think that it contributed the fact that we have unlimited WP now. There is information there which describes the certain procedures in the ABH, similar to ones that I have already mentioned in this thread as the reason to involve lawyer. :-) The person who wrote this report reads this forum, too. :-)

According to new law it should be no problem to change job. Same as before.
Some Beamters could say that GC is considered as a unlimited work permit only to current firma, but it is not true.
GC is with BeschV unlimited WP for whole IT Bereich.

What should be done in case of changing job I do not know exactly. But I know that work permit will be just Auflage on Visa.
So if one changes job he should get Auflage but not on GC because GC is incompatible with it. Probably on new Visa which will probably be issued for 2-5 years or maybe they will issue new Visa for same period as the old one.