Jesus, what a nightmare that was... Four years working in Germany.

I am so glad that it's all over now.

I could go on and on saying why I left Germany, and my former company ... I wish I could say "there is one single reason why I left" but in fact there were tens and tens of them ...

I could cluster all those reasons into two groups: 1) utter repulsiveness of Germany as a prospective place to settle down/immigrate, 2) utter incompetence and obsolence of business processes in my former German company, 3) total inflexibility of my former boss to introduce at least some "best practices" common in high-tech businesses, 4) utter taciturnity of the Germans I was working with. I wonder how I endured all those years there.

Goodbye Germany. It was "nice" but unfortunately I won't remember those years with gladness ...

I am so glad that I am still in Germany. This country helped me a lot to learn a new language and to get to know a new culture. I also had/have a great experience with my current/previous employers in Germany. They were all working with state-of-the-art technologies and best practices. I could not get such a good experience elsewhere in the world..

I am so glad that I have access to a good health care system and to a good reliable infrastructure.. Thanks Germany for hosting us..

Regards,

Lacrima

PS: Just wrote this.. because I am sick of "Germany sucks" messages..(apart from the fact that I happen to have good experiences here) People end up blaming the country in which they are living after their personal/professional frustration and culture shock they are experiencing.. Germany is not hell.. let's face the fact.. and majority has good experiences here.. first GClers start to settle down and start to buy houses here.. they learnt the language and they integrate.. if it was that bad.. surely they wouldn't do it..

;-)

Good bye Germany!

Germany is a good place to live but not with the German people. You might have had good experiences Mr. Lacrima but the fact is everyone in the world accepts that most Germans are psychopathic personalities and unfriendly. If not now, one day your settled brigade will realise, what it means spending your rest of life in Germany.

I remember one of my German colleague keep on asking me "So tell me Herr XXX, how long will you stay here in Germany" Germans always think you are third person and you are here for a temporary stay. I mean they cannot imagine one will want to stay here forever. I don't see this in USA, Canada for example.

Foreign kids in Germany will have to face everyday racism in kindergarten, you cannot ignore that. May be not the turks because there are lot of turkish children in the school. It takes a lot for anyone to decide for a permanent settlement and of course Germany is not in contention.

I agree Germany offers best health care system, good environment, infrastructure but the German typical mind set is of that late 40's where they were facing enemies. It will take some more generations to see a different mind set until then you will have to face the music being an immigrant.

@babloo

By now we are all sick of your german-bashing. If the immigrants are undesired in germany then it is because of people like you. Germany had first experience of work-based-immigration in 60s, when they invited Turks, Italians, Polish etc. to work and live here in germany. These guys didn't come here to make home in germany but only to earn money and all they did is to fuck-up the system and exploit the social benefits. They never treated germany as their home but rather as some cheap brothel.

Now with green-card program there was a new breed of immigrants who wanted to help/contribute to the growth and success of germany. But the people who had their hands burned with previous experience remained skeptical and thus unfriendly. It's upto you to change their perception of us by setting a good example, not by calling them rasist.

@Akshay

Isn't it? it is frustrating to see someone sitting on your head always. Tell me, does your reasoning help change the ground situation? NOPE! face the reality, that is what I meant. What kind of example are you setting here in Germany when you do not respect your own culture? You will never be able to change someone and I don't think GC's did set any bad example. I do not want to get into any kind of philosophy here. It is only the time, which tells what fate is written for immigrants in Germany. How did you plan to bring in that perception of yours apart being a GC? please clarify?

By the way, to bring a good perception it needs a great lot of effort and thinking and that is why it is important to puke your frustrations so that they are heard and taken care of. You need to run some organisations, seminar's and cultural activities for the welfare of your own people and culture, how many GC's are actively involved in that? this is mere fantasy!

@Akshay

"Germany had first experience of work-based-immigration in 60s, when they invited Turks, Italians, Polish etc.
...
all they did is to fuck-up the system and exploit the social benefits."


I cant believe it! How can you write that?

My parents and my uncles did work in germany and I am realy sorry to read such a comment, after what they all did in this country.

SHAME ON YOU!

LOL! he is never ashamed of himself!

"Jesus, what a nightmare that was... Four years working in Germany."

Odin statt Jesus! Wait for couple of years ... ;)

"I could cluster all those reasons into two groups:"

lol man why do you think people without money have immigrated in US in the first place? do you think anything has changed in old Europe since? yeah. something has changed. you helped, thank yoooouuuuupup! more things are automatisiert, more people are without job, but where can they go NOW? :o nothing more to explore, at least not in the "absehbare Zukunft" ...

"I am so glad that I am still in Germany. This country helped me a lot to learn a new language and to get to know a new culture."

It's very interesting that more and more politicians in Tuerkey now say that Tuerkey should live *alone*? without EU ... what will you think if those politicians will get the upper hand? ;) you see, they are really not wrong, they understand that Earth can not house so many people as now ...

"but the fact is everyone in the world accepts that most Germans are psychopathic personalities and unfriendly"

not everyone! at least I do not think that Germans are "psychopathic personalities and unfriendly". Germans are stubborn, that's right. Aber not so stubborn als weiter in Norden ... lol ... Germans (geprüft! ) mostly think that i am "psychopathic personality, although friendly"

"Foreign kids in Germany will have to face everyday racism in kindergarten, you cannot ignore that."

your kid is perhaps alone in kindergarten and is not really strong ... i mean all kinder say ok, who are you? one says German, and others - here we are, lots! then another - Tuerkey, lots as well. what YOUR can say?

""Germany had first experience of work-based-immigration in 60s, when they invited Turks, Italians, Polish etc.
...
all they did is to fuck-up the system and exploit the social benefits."

I cant believe it! How can you write that?"

lol he is not right about people from Tuerkey - they work lots for no money even now. He is not right about people from Italy and Polen as well - they really did not need any invitation ...

Hey what happens?

I'm waiting for a "babloo vs. '-'" fight.

It's going to be some like "Freddy vs. Jason" or "Alien vs. Predator" LOL

Los!

I agree with Lacrima completely as my experiences in Germany were quite similar.

Babloo wrote:
Germany is a good place to live but not with the German people. You might have had good experiences Mr. Lacrima but the fact is everyone in the world accepts that most Germans are psychopathic personalities and unfriendly.

Babloo, now who is this everyone? Is that you and another and another one? Sometimes I wonder how silly, arrogant, hot headed, short-sighted you are. Do you have some common sense? How are you able to work with your colleagues from different nations? And why are you working in Germany? What a shame?

Babloo wrote:
Foreign kids in Germany will have to face everyday racism in kindergarten, you cannot ignore that.
babloo, is your kid going to the Kindergarten? I can say that my son is attending Kindergarten the last 2 years and he is attending whole day sessions. I find the teachers are very much committed in educating the child and gives useful feedbacks to me. There are parent teacher meetings and I have not missed any and it was wise that I did not. They are giving special lessons for kids who do not speak German at home. So, what the hell are you talking about?

Akshay wrote:
Germany had first experience of work-based-immigration in 60s, when they invited Turks, Italians, Polish etc. to work and live here in germany. These guys didn't come here to make home in germany but only to earn money and all they did is to fuck-up the system and exploit the social benefits. They never treated germany as their home but rather as some cheap brothel.

Akshay, you could be right to a certain degree. Still it cannot be generalised. But looks like people do that easily.

@amember

"Babloo, now who is this everyone? Is that you and another and another one? Sometimes I wonder how silly, arrogant, hot headed, short-sighted you are. Do you have some common sense? How are you able to work with your colleagues from different nations? And why are you working in Germany? What a shame?"

i think it does not make much difference between the person who wrote and who comment. i just simply could not understand.

the pointed comments were,

- arrogant hot headed
- short-sighted
- common sense
- shame


"is your kid going to the Kindergarten? I can say that my son is attending Kindergarten the last 2 years and he is attending whole day sessions. I find the teachers are very much committed in educating the child and gives useful feedbacks to me. There are parent teacher meetings and I have not missed any and it was wise that I did not. They are giving special lessons for kids who do not speak German at home. So, what the hell are you talking about?"

i am still trying to understand, how this is related to racism in which Mr. Babloo meant?

i think you are talking about education and the language problem which foreign children face in here. that is not new anyway, even some (foreign) people live in germany for decades and could'nt speak any german and unfortunatly i also met bunch of (native) germans who can't speak proper german. i just donot know where to keep what? but i think it is nothing to do with racism, which is going on now in australia

instructor wrote:
i think you are talking about education and the language problem which foreign children face in here.

That was not clear from my side. Sorry. What I meant was that the system in the Kindergarten is good and the teachers working there try to follow the system without discriminating between kids of different nationalities. The parents of other kids are also very forthcoming. For example inviting my son to the birthday party of their son. In the Kindergarten obviously the kids wouldn't discriminate against other kids. Would they? Or rather, they have to learn from their parents and teachers to do that. I guess you understand what I meant about racism in the Kindergarten. Or maybe, I don't have any idea what racism is all about(that what babloo actually means).

Well, here are my two cents.

I grew up in Germany and know the language and culture very good. I also lived in different part of germany and got to know the differences. Although germany is not very big but it is very different. There is difference of day and night between north and south. There are a lot of extremes. As a foreigner it is in general better to live in the big cities north. i.e. Hamburg. The other extreme would be for example PASSAU :-) or Munich, eventhough it is big city and the bavarian are proud of it, it is still a "big village" as refenced to it by many germand.
Now to my actual point. Germany was never an it is not going to be in foreseebale time an " Immigration Country" that is Einwanderungsland. The people and the culture in general is not used to foreigners and of course such as is live any change is view with skeptisism, human nature and even more with germans for historical reasons. So the government and the people don't see the benefits of a diverse culture, something that propelled the USA to be a Super Power. German politics makes 2 steps forward and than one back, there won't be major changes, which will be needed even from economical point of view. Germany can't really afford their health care system with no check and balances and their retirement plans and many more things.
The thing about discremination is that it is very wide spread in the german society and there are no laws against it. Some of you guys are very new to germany and see the clean streets and the nice infrastructure and think you have landed in heaven, well I am sure all of you will take a deeper view on things once you have gotten accustomed to the superficial things. As an example, the many many Turks in Germany helped build that economy with hard labor, labor that no german wanted to do. And how are they respected in the german society now, after more than 30 years. I know there are show cases of Turks being popular and in Politics, again those are very superficial only for demonstration purposes, you need to look in everyday life of people.
I know that many of you are offered things are one could only dream about in your country but you should look beneath the surface and take things with a grain of salt.
BTW the example of Turks is not meant in anyway as demeaning. THe same things also applied to Greeks and Italiens.

Cheers and Happy Hollidays

@amember

"that the system in the Kindergarten is good and the teachers working there try to follow the system without discriminating between kids of different nationalities"

yes, i also think the same way that the many teachers do work to elimate discrimination. as we all know there are some exceptions which i know some personally.

"For example inviting my son to the birthday party of their son"

i do agree that, it is part of culture anyway and good way to get integrated as well.

"In the Kindergarten obviously the kids wouldn't discriminate against other kids"

kids, they never think of color or anything like that as i know, they just need someone to trust and toys to play. i think it only comes as how kids grow up, as the they start thinking about each other and start comparing.

"they have to learn from their parents and teachers to do that"

obsolutly right, that is the way i think too.

"I guess you understand what I meant about racism in the Kindergarten. Or maybe, I don't have any idea what racism is all about(that what babloo actually means)"

sure, i got it. why do you think you don't have any idea about it? i've never said that and will/should not judge like that. why would you consider when someone comment something which you belive is false? any irrelevant thing are there just to ignore. i hope you know what i mean.

@JJ

"here are my two cents"

where? can you give me, in germany i need every cent to save (please don't take is serious)

"Munich, eventhough it is big city and the bavarian are proud of it, it is still a "big village" as refenced to it by many germand."

oh, lot of my german colleagues think same ;) even me too.

"German politics makes 2 steps forward and than one back, there won't be major changes"

exactly that is the way i think too.

"the government and the people don't see the benefits of a diverse culture"

yes, i did recently hear that Mr. Steinbeck talking about parallel-culture is better than multi-cultural. but i've different opinion anyway still hope people learn someday.

"Germany can't really afford their health care system with no check and balances and their retirement plans and many more things"

yes, tell me who is not scared in germany about their pension? even i'm too concerned about that.

"The thing about discremination is that it is very wide spread in the german society"

i've lived and worked in many countries, but unfortunatly i could not find a country where you don't find discremination. even in my own country people discreminate each other in different form even based on color. it exists everywhere where "we (humans with brain)" all exist and that is what i learnt until now, but hope to find a country where discremination does not exists. yes, you are right that in germany exists as well and just a hope that people learn otherwise it might happen like in france or now in australia if not.

"Cheers and Happy Hollidays"

wishing you as well

@amember

Babloo, now who is this everyone? Is that you and another and another one? Sometimes I wonder how silly, arrogant, hot headed, short-sighted you are. Do you have some common sense? How are you able to work with your colleagues from different nations? And why are you working in Germany? What a shame?

You weiird $hit! Why do you think working in Germany means you are not allowed to criticise. Go to hellll! I am not getting anything free here. I believe your handle(amember) tells what you are. amember, asister, abrother! wahahahahehe! where ever I get business opportunity I will be there.

So, what the hell are you talking about?

LOL, keep out your emotional $hit! Naturally everywhere in Germany it doesn't stink and your kid is lucky. Look at what German children are taught about your rotten third world countries. Hey, did your kid didn't complain that he was named the best chocolate of the class, if not, watch for it! Just 2 years old, LOL, gradually as your kid grows, he will explain you how he felt studying, playing and chatting with other native kids means? I don't need to contemplate myself with examples because you are not my boss. If you do not understand check out the meaning of racism in a dictionary. Though the word is not equal to killing but it gathers some amount of prejudice.

NOTE: "I never anywhere said all Germans", I said many of them are unfriendly. Infact to your belief I have few good German colleagues who accept my views on Germany and I do accept their views on India. By the way, this man Detlef is one of that example of a good case.

@babloo

"I believe your handle(amember) tells what you are."

I would recommand you to take back the above statement. Why ? Take a closer look at your handle/ login name . Does your handle tells what you are ?

babloo = bab + loo

The link gives the meaning of loo

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/loo_1?view=uk

@Krieger

You should try this :-)

http://www.babloo.com/babloo.jpg

hahaha! I have had my last laugh already.

So Babloo means Baboon in some language ? Or is there any famous cartoon character by that name ?

babloo wrote:
You weiird $hit! Why do you think working in Germany means you are not allowed to criticise. Go to hellll! I am not getting anything free here. I believe your handle(amember) tells what you are. amember, asister, abrother! wahahahahehe! where ever I get business opportunity I will be there.

Thanks. And your braindead crap will bring you lots of good and you will get to heaven. But who says I can't criticize you?

babloo:

"remember one of my German colleague keep on asking me "So tell me Herr XXX, how long will you stay here in Germany" Germans always think you are third person and you are here for a temporary stay. I mean they cannot imagine one will want to stay here forever. I don't see this in USA, Canada for example."

Hmm, it's different with my case. Since two years I have said I wanted to move to countries near my country or to my country itself, they said, "can you stay any longer?"

My wife wears Kopftuch, and she can finish her master program freely without any strange feeling or shoutings.

I find the Germans in general are good people. The worst things here are the politicians for blowing xenophobia and some generalization about foreigners. If somebody here said that such discrimination can happen everywhere in this world, maybe it's true, but in my country such politicians may loose their position. The "Zwangsheirat" among the Turkish immigrants is not a common phenomenon, also "Ehrenmord", I think not even 5% of the whole Turkish immigrants. But the politicians keep saying as if these are very common and dangerous for the society. I'm not a Turk, but I'm a foreigner in Germany, like them also.

I'm preparing my homeback and want to remember that most of the common Germans are nice people! Also you, Detlef :-)

Regards,
EE

@adna_f

"The worst things here are the politicians for blowing xenophobia and some generalization about foreigners"

it is always easy to catch "politicians" as i do quite often, but i think if you consider other country politicians i think the german politics is in quite good shape. i can't imagine about politics in iran? i don't know, even many countries in africa / middle east or even south america for that matter. so i think german politics is little bit better, of couse they are also people like us and working for bread sometime beyond

@instructor

I don't know about Iranian, Middle East, or South American politics, I've never been there. What I can remember is that there is no "entschuldigung" from a politician who said "Kinder statt Inder", for example. Again, I'm not an Indian, but I got also GC like most of them, so I'm also insulted. Compare it with Möllemann or Hohlmann (?) affairs, you'll know that it should be a little bit different.

EE

@adna_f

"I don't know about Iranian, Middle East, or South American politics, I've never been there"

i've bee to some countries, but it is not necessory to visit anymore as we're in infomation world and especially the people who are working on GC system.

"What I can remember is that there is no "entschuldigung" from a politician who said "Kinder statt Inder""

did i ever commented on this issue? but i think you are right in this case.

"for example. Again, I'm not an Indian, but I got also GC like most of them, so I'm also insulted"

i think it was not meant to be only indian, i was kinda referencing the GC system, so we all are included in that clause

"Compare it with Möllemann or Hohlmann (?) affairs, you'll know that it should be a little bit different."

so you know, i know and we all know now where they landed now. so you can see, germans recognize the problem and keep them where they belong. because of that i said, "the politics in here quite good shape" but in the middle-east "country-to-be-deleted, western-music-disabled,kidnappings-enabled,bombings-active and many-more-to-come" and STILL IN POWER! even in my own country there are many corrupted men are in politics though we all know that they are looting in public. you know there are always gates open the things to learn and hope for better.