Dear GCs,

I am glad to inform you that in my case the officials followed following interpretation:

§ 46 BeschV:
"GCler kann AE-NE nach 5 Jahren bekommen nur nach dem §27 des BeschV falls er Prüfung nach § 39 Abs. 2 Satz 1 Nr. 1 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes bestehet (weiter Arbeitsmarktprüfung)."
"GClers können Arbeit wechseln nur wenn Sie erneut Arbeitsmarktprüfung bestehen"

As i did not agree with officials and work without their permission, the officials - at least it looks very much like that - have made immediately a complaint of an offence vs. me. Therefore i guess it can be found out very soon whether GCs are allowed to stay in Germany or - all together - can pack their belongings and go home.

The trial is going to take place in Mannheim.


The most interesting thing here would be that i will not look for any lawyer and will refuse to cooperate with any lawyer, should they be appointed as my lawyer without my agreement. Reason: i do not want to be responsible for the mistakes of lawyers, i am sure that i can defend myself better than any lawyer will and i am sure that Anwaltszwang offends against german Constitution and International Law; the reasoning is currently viewed by BAG and BVerfG.


Therefore the whole thing looks like: either Anwaltszwang will be eliminated or all GCs can pack their belongings and go home, regardless of what exactly was planned for them by the government. It shall be found out as well, what we have in Germany: still a democracy or already a dictatorship of a caste of lawyers, against whose will nobody - not even an elected government - can say a word.


trusday out *lol*

Be specific...
Who tell you so? Arbeitsamt? Ausländeramt?
Who make a charge aginst you?
What kind of visum and how long you have?
What is written on your visum?
Tell exactly where has that happened?

I had a talk with one guy, who later on - that is, towards the end of talk - said me that he is from police. the guy in fact by seemingly harmlos questions tried to clear it up, whether i do understand that i offended against a law and whether i can try to flee

Thinking back about a talk, i would guess that the charge will be based on illegal employment. Not surprisingly at all, considering that officials - from employment and immigration office - tried to persuade me that in case of GCs from 01.01.2005 the survey of labour market is required in any case when GCs change a job / apply for a new residence permit. And of course i notified both bodies of officials a week ago that i do work.


And the point of view of officials in my case is not surprising at all, considering that Stadt Mannheim from year 2002 tries anything to throw me out of Germany. Last thing that they tried - in November 2004 - Februar 2005 - to declare me to be an insane person, then assign me a custodian who would be able to decide about my place of residence. After that attempt did not work, it was obviuosly decided to try to throw me out by means of a forged charge. That it would mean "go home" for all GCs as well does not bother the officials of Stadt Mannheim in the slightest if at the same time they can get rid of me


Not very good news for you guys, er?



Btw my duties on my place of work - that is where i work now - are to test some applications from SAP AG for the possibilities whether they contain some bugs that can be used by hackers. the possibility that as a result of deportation some interesting information can land in hands of hackers of course does not interest Stadt Mannheim in the slightest as well



P.S. Need to do some work today, must make sure that an arrest warrant can not be issued, at least quickly. Firstly i am going to reject three courts of laws - that is, AmtsG Mannheim, LG Mannheim and OLG Karlsruhe, heh have a very good reason for that considering that those courts of laws already made some decisions in other cases with my participation, on the basis of Anwaltszwang of course. Then a letter to police probably can help, the one in which i will inform them how much my arrest can cost them in the end. will deliver it them personally tomorrow, in exchange for their signature

Interesting experience...

What nationality do you have ?
Can you speak German fluently ?

If you dont mind to answer of course.
Regards.

Hast du schon Widerspruch vorgelegt?
Haben die Beamten ihre Aussagen irgendwie begründet?
Das, was du hier geschrieben hast, steht offensichtlich im Widerspruch mit BMI Vorl. Hinweise zum AufenthG und mit AufenthG iVm BeschVerfV
http://www.fluechtlingsinfo-berlin.de/fr/gesetzgebung/BMI_Hinweise_AufenthG_221204.pdf

Nr. 9.2.5. Arbeitnehmer müssen über einen Aufenthaltstitel verfügen, der ihnen die Beschäftigung erlaubt (§ 4 Abs. 3 Satz 1). Diese Erlaubnis muss unbefristet (z.B. auf Grund einer Regelung des AufenthG oder auf Grund § 46 Abs. 2 BeschV oder § 9 BeschVerfV) vorliegen. Arbeitnehmer in diesem Sinne ist jeder, der eine Beschäftigung im Sinne des § 2 Abs. 2 ausübt.

Wenn eine unbefristete Zustimmung vorliegt, braucht AA/ABH nichts mehr zu prüfen (dies trifft im Fall von § 9 AufenthG zu).

"What nationality do you have ?"

That's a very interesting question, for which no answer is available. My parentage is not clear

"Can you speak German fluently ?"

Sure, without problems

"Das, was du hier geschrieben hast, steht offensichtlich im Widerspruch mit BMI Vorl."
"Wenn eine unbefristete Zustimmung vorliegt, braucht AA/ABH nichts mehr zu prüfen (dies trifft im Fall von § 9 AufenthG zu)."

Theory, who cares about theory? Practice is: every commune has lots of unemployed natives and does not understand why they have to accept foreigners, when they did not agree with residence of those foreigners in the first place.

Think about it: before GC it was possible to get either a residence permit of a guest worker, unlimited one in case of jews / russian germans or a residence permit of a refuge


First case: such residence permits were all provided with a cancellation condition, with a new job a new one had to be requested! that means the commune always decided first whether they agree that this particular foreigner will live there

Second case: but for jews and russian germans the place of their settlement was defined only after the corresponding agreement of commune was holed!

Third case: reqiured agreement of a local commune as well


Now think about GC: person changes a job, comes to another town and does not reqiure any agreement of commune in order to be settled there. The reason for rebellion is there, it only needed one case when commune decided to ignore center and go their own way. That's the perfect example how Schröder's ideas work.



Now thinking about me: but from my point of view Stadt Mannheim not only is not right towards me but has to pay a good invoice for their actions. They elected a government that decided to make a contract with me on some terms? why then i should be responsible when the government does something with what they do not agree, they need to make their claims vs. government? They do not want me to live here? Fine, but then they - as i do have a right to live here - must pay me accordingly to Art. 14 GG so that i can settle without any problems in other town. they do not want to pay and do not want to have me here around? but that's a robbery, how could they even think that something like that could be accepted? the right thing for Stadt Mannheim to do would be to decide what they do not want more - have me around here or pay me a retribution - and after that make their own invoice and try to make Schröder to pay it. But you see, they want to go not in the right way, and of course the interests of other GCs do not affect their movements even in the slightest ...


P.S. Actions of Stadt Mannheim can - if Stadt Mannheim will succeed - create a very dangerous precedent, the one that all other communes are very likely to follow. For GCs that would mean "pack and go home" regardless of what Schröder and BMI have to say on the subject ;)

Hey, Take it easy..
Your specific case does not prove anything, nor it means "pack & go" for the other GCs..

Easy.. ganz Easy.. you dont even explain the details of your story and why you have been sued.
We have a lot of examples out there with NEs and BEs.. things do not look like as pessimistic as you describe.. and we are hearing the story now only from your perspective. I would be interested to hear the story also from the authorities' perspective.

Instead of playing the "stubborn right" person. Try to be cooperative with the german authorities and understand what they want.. and defend your rights with the help of a lawyer.. if you are really right, then everything will be fine anyway..

Please also avoid to generalize that your case effects every GC. This is simply NOT true.

All the best & Good luck

Lacrima

Ok I just realized that author of the post
was Trusday. Our old-friend Trusday..

For the people who dont know Trusday. Let me introduce him to you guys. His case is really complicated, we have been discussing his case here quite often then he suddenly disappeared now he is back again.

Trusday is "heimatlos" and he was trying to apply for German citizenship some time back using this situation of being "heimatlos". He was stubbornly claiming at that time that he was right according to some Geneva conventions.. and Germany has to issue him a brand new German passport, just because he flushed his passport into the toliet which he used to enter Germany.

Looks like things didnt work out, as he expected.
Anyway, his case has nothing to do with a "normal" GC case. Just to inform the readers, as he seems not willing to confess it by himself.

Regards,

Lacrima

"he was trying to apply for German citizenship some time back"
"just because he flushed his passport into the toliet"

never did those things. btw internet forum is a mean of mass media so i would be a little more carefull with an accusations of a second type - that is, of type "just because he flushed his passport into the toliet". such things are against the laws and it really does not take much time to make a charge vs. an individual running


second thing would be to mention that "Looks like things didnt work out, as he expected." is not true as well, as the officials surely would not need a forged charge in such a case. The reason why they decided to use such thing does not matter at all, matters only what point of view the officials will present during a trial. if the point of view "GCs need to get an agreement of employment office in any case, for what purpose the check of labour market must be done" wins, so the officials in other towns will use it, because it makes their life little bit easier. will use against all GCs excluding, of course, our friends from Turkey - who get their permits after 4 years without any new regulations -, to which number our friend Lacrima belongs

I just remembered some parts of the discussion that we had some months back. Here it is:
http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/help_needed/green_card_status/(offset)/10

I searched it to refresh my memory and it looks like you didnt demand German citizenship but to be treated "stateless". (which may end-up demanding the German-citizenship at the long-run anyway..)

So I was right by saying that your case is different than a "normal" GC case. By the way, I guess you were refusing to have the passport where your GC(RP) sticker is present.. lol

If you want to sue me for what I have written, then please do so.. I am so scared and already packed my clothes for fleeing.

Maybe I will sue you as well for spreading not-proven/false information regarding the GC situation. Be careful, internet is considered as mass-media.. lol

Regards,

Lacrima

PS: Btw. these are all your own words from the link that I have given above:

Trusday wrote at 27.06.2004 :
tomorrow local immigration office will get a justified application for german passport , and a court of law in Karlsruhe - request to suspend an execution of any future deportation order vs. me for a week so i will be able to make necessary arragements (that is, submit necessary applications to courts of law) in the future

"(which may end-up demanding the German-citizenship at the long-run anyway..)"

how? i mean everybody can decide to demand a german citizenship, but how being stateless could increase the possibility of doing so?

"By the way, I guess you were refusing to have the passport where your GC(RP) sticker is present.. lol"

now you say "guess" and that makes a whole big difference between an accusation and a normal discussion *lol* nope i did not refuse to have a passport, in fact i applied for it many times - and still do not have one. i refused only from one thing - to ever again visit one certain country, let alone live there

"If you want to sue me for what I have written, then please do so.."

i just warned you, seems you understood a point ... how would you youself react if i started writing some nasty things about you that never happened?

"Maybe I will sue you as well for spreading not-proven/false information regarding the GC situation."

well if you can prove that something written by me is false and it affected your reputation in the eyes of people reading this forum, you will have a reason to do so ... otherwise - i mean suing just for a fun of it - can result in a charge accordingly to §164 StGB what the officials here are going to find out as soon as i clear it up who exactly - immigration office or employment office - made a charge against me



btw german passport != german citizenship, as you probably remember from our previous discussion. stateless people have a right for a german passport as well, which does not make them german citizens of course


and i guess you would agree with me, that legal precedents mean even more than laws because they explain how laws must be understood ... a precedent in a trial is worth much more than lots of precedents in civil cases, and nobody will really care whether i am a "normal" GC or not when the particular juristic question - how to interpret §46 BeschV - will be explained by three decisions (i mean three instances here) of courts of law. in order to change it another guy would have to go three instances as well, without any hope to succeed of course, and costly procedures those are as well

Ok Trusday,

If we summarize:
You came to Germany as a GC by carrying the passport of a country which you dont want to see again. That country gave you that passport by force.(how that can be possible I dont know but that was your claim) You let the german authorities to stick the GC on that passport and introduce yourself as a citizen of that country at the very beginning, then you decided to be suddenly "stateless".(After losing your job maybe ?) Started some court-cases.. you were trying to avoid being deported and after some time, I guess you found a job and started to work (without having even a Passport.. right ?)
and now you claim that evil-german authorities mistreat you. lol

I will tell you honestly as a friend, before shouting around and blaming the politicians and Mr. Schröder etc, let's honestly accept and face it: you chose the wrong way to stabilize your residence in Germany. That was a bad strategy, to claim to be stateless after losing your job. Now you are taking the consequences of what you have done.

Would you be having the same problems, if you had just kept the country's passport where you came from and work till you get the NE? (I mean, nobody asks you to go back to that country, you are in Germany anyway) but no.. you needed a short-cut for stabilizing your residence here but it didnt work out as you expected.

For god's sake, do you have any passport at all now ? I would rather be careful, as with the new law, in some cases, they can deport you without giving you much chances of defending yourself. If it is a good thing or bad thing is another discussion but it may very well apply to your case and you can continue to file your law suits in three different courts outside of Germany. lol

Regards,

Lacrima

mnhmmm ,
i just finished reading this Trusday's older Thread pointed to Lacrima.....
it seems he is bringing lots of things in the mix ...
He's talking about coming to DE with 8 Euro( DMark may be ), mentioning the word 'Terrorists' a lot ,talking about Pres. Bush, Spain and Ireland and he even has the nerve to talk about world war III ?!! are u serious?????!

Now he's in trouble with the Law and he's trying to bring down all Good GC People ..ha! it will not happen dude!! if that's what u r trying to do..

If u did't like the passport of your own Country ( may i ask which color was it? ) then it's your own fault...don't try to say that all GC will pack their Bags ...even if we do, at least we have some Home to return to ?


Usually i don't expect GC People to use sich tricks to secure NE, i mean if u really wanted to have a German Citizenship , you could have tried with marrying somebody , at least that works.

Flushing passports and the likes are tricks used by people who do not have any Certificates...i mean , now that you have thrown your passport, who is going to trust you anyway ??
First of all, for some educated Guy like you ( i suppose u have Certificates) , it's very easy for Authorities to trace your Real Country of Origin..unless may be if you have fake Certificates...

I think i saw some paragraph somewhere in the new Law that,if you apply for Asylum then you won't even be entitled to the possibility of getting a NE.

C'Mon Trusday , at least tell us which Country u r from ..we won't tell the AB people

Well from what Trusday speaks here, I think he is trying to gain some footing here in Germany inspite of some serious problems on his side.

I think he should rather cool down and come to reality.

Good luck in your venture Hr. Trusday

"That was a bad strategy, to claim to be stateless after losing your job."

That's not true as well. I claimed that i am stateless AFTER i found a job, AFTER i came to Mannheim and AFTER Mannheim started attempts to throw me out. Therefore the whole story is not my mistake after all – i had to defend myself and i did defend myself.

When i came to Germany with a passport of a country from which i came from, i never stated that i accept and agree with a citizenship of that state. I just stated that one country keeps me for their citizen - true, can be proven and already was proven by embassy of that country. Later on – AFTER Mannheim started to try to kick me out, although i did behave as a „normal“ GC and had a job – i stated that the citizenship of that country was given me without my agreement and by force, that i never agreed to have that citizenship and therefore de-fakto i am stateless.

The passport of that country was not given me by force of course, i did apply for it without agreeing to the citizenship of that country. The thing is that that country did not have special passports for stateless people and issued stateless people the passports of citizens as well. How could i get a passport that did not exist in nature, escapes me, therefore – considering that in that country it’s not possible to live without a passport at all – it escapes me as well what i did wrong when i applied for the only passport that i could get in any case. I mean, it’s a failure of the country that it did not comply with international agreements and did not provide special passports for stateless people – then claim against that country and make it pay money for its mistakes! Why should i answer for mistakes of a country that in fact kept me as its slave by issuing me its citizenship by force? I have nothing in common with that country anyways – no ancestors from there, was not born there, did not go in school there as well.

„I would rather be careful, as with the new law, in some cases, they can deport you without giving you much chances of defending yourself.“

The mean to deport anybody at any time without any trial always was there, it just was not used often previously because there was no such great need for the country. It would be used against me i guess if i did not live in a country from year 2001 and did not integrate financially in the country – the number of different financial connections that i have normally the small businesses have, it’s not possible to break those at once and deport me without having lots of problems with own citizens. Therefore in my case officials try to achieve their task in a seemingly lawful way, surely not in a way when everybody at once – without even studying the documents – will say that it offends against all human rights, regardless in which way some laws could be undestood by human beings. Here they did not succeed, therefore tried to declare me insane, when that did not work as well – now they use a mean of a forged charge. Ahhh they tried to ship me to the third country as well – didn’t work as well ‚cause no country would possibly want to have a person that has a lot of legal disputes with unclear results from financial point of view and does not work as well. So it seems there is only one possibility left for them now – try to present me as a very bad criminal and use the new regulations that allow to deport such bad guys to the countries from where they came from even if they will not live a day upon arrival there and such a fact is known.



Anyhow my story probably is not interesting for the most people and has nothing to do with an initial thema. As i said many times, it does not matter here WHY the officials do what i do, what matters for other GCs – WHAT they want to prove now. And this WHAT surely affects most GCs here, therefore a topic was created in the first place. The thing is pretty much simple it seems: if i am thrown out of Germany, GCs – excluding our friends from Turkey and new EU-lands – can pack their belongings and go home, and Detlef can close his business *lol*

"if you apply for Asylum then you won't even be entitled to the possibility of getting a NE."

Therefore only fools apply for Asylum when they have already a valid residence permit. It can not be expected of me that i will do something so stupid, now can it?

As for marriage - there is no country that allows people marry when they have no passport. That i do not have one is again a mistake of german officials, you could find this info if you really read carefully those threads from summer 2004



Once again - it does not matter much anyway. The right thing would be to think what GCs are going to do when the Federal Court will decide that in case of GCs the checks of labour market must be done every time they change their job or residence permit, regardless of §46 BeschV and explanations of BMI, and this will happen in a trial not in a civil case.

Ok Trusday,
You are right. I give up.
A court decison taken againts a GC who tried to work without a passport and who declared himself "stateless" after arriving to Germany seems to be a perfect example for all the other fellow GCs. Surely there will be no influence to the court's decision, the fact that GC is stateless and does not posses a passport. The court will take the decision by ignoring all the other facts of this specific GC and will base its decision just on the fact that this person is GC. Someone who may claim the opposite should be the evil.

Therefore we all have to carefully watch the results of this court events and pray for the good results because We are all as normal GCs with the Passports of our home countries and being a citizen of those countries will be effected from the court decisions immediately.

As soon as the court decisions are available, then these court decisions will be delivered immediately to all alien-offices in Germany and the ministry of internal affairs will explicitly ask all alien offices to take into consideration the court decision in ALL GC cases.

We all should be careful and prepared. Thanks for warning us Thursday.

Regards,

Lacrima

Ok people, let we all break our passaports proclaim us stateless and according Geneva conventions search citizenship where ever we want.
Lets see...
I wan to live in Bakingham Palace and be the prince from Whales and Elisabet to be my mother.

PS.
Thursday....piss off.You idiot,you scared me a lot.

"A court decison taken ... seems to be a perfect example for all the other fellow GCs"

it will be. it’s Germany, not a Turkey. The third instance decides only about particular juristic questions, that are of significance for a decision of second instance, those juristic questions always do not apply to just one case, they are about how some law statements should be understood and applied; it’s going to be something like „GCs have to pass a labour market check every time they change the job or apply for a new residence permit“, and once such thing is decided by Federal Court it is going to be used immediately by all immigration offices without exception, BMI is going to change their instructions accordingly and the question will not be reviewed, if at all, for a long time to come.

That the judges are human beings and their decision can be affected by the fact that this particular GC that awaits a decision has no passport and claims to be stateless, is true. So worse for the GCs, their fate could be so much different if a „base decision“ was made in a case with a participation of a „normal“ GC ... And a trial makes a third instance inevitable, and juristic question that will be viewed depends solely on the defending party, not to mention that courts of laws tend to consider my cases to be of first priority, so that GCs will not get their NEs before all three instances will be over ...



But, the people always can hope ...

"it will be..."
No, it will not be. I already explained the reasons so there is no need to repeat them.

Regards,

Lacrima

"No, it will not be. I already explained the reasons so there is no need to repeat them."

gonna bet? my bet would be: if i am found guilty in Schwarzarbeit, the decision of court of law will be of significance for all GCs who are hoping to get NE after five years of their residence in Germany.

if, instead, i will not be found guilty, that would not necesseraly mean that GCs would get a "green light" and that the meaning of §46 BeschV would be clarified



btw officials have already lost the first round because they should immediately arrest me in order to prevent the Schwarzarbeit from being continued. Instead they allowed me to go free so that i could make all necessary applications

Hi Trusday, *

Sometime ago, when you were posting in this thread, inspite of your criticism, you remained helpful in giving help to several GCs in this forum and this is a big factor of supporting you at this time.

I praise that your absence was fulfilled by DVD, Lacrima, Nobody, YO1, max, Detlef, Lawyers,,,,,.

Because, you talked about issues, where Double-standard is used and we see today "Might is right approach prevailing in this world"

I know, at this moment, you are not feeling well with the behavior from fellow authorities. And, this is normal, as I have seen so many threads from other GCs, who criticize ABH or AB and German politicians etc.

Like, every GC was told 5 years stay, then why a compaign was started in this forum and still a Letter is being designed to be sent(although, I too support this thing). Clearly to extend stay in this country.

I would suggest to take his case in this country like others, like us, but Trusday should not relate his whole case with every GC.

Yes, this seems to me not true and would like to mention here.

Rest, if he is in a fight with the authorities, then without knowing about any body situation, we should not blame and start guessing and quarelling.

I would just add that this forum has been a source of great help to many GCs and Trusday has been a part of that help(see his past threads).

If you now, look at the current running threads, you will find that everybody is trying and running to secure NE or make some effort to claim tax refund back etc for ex.

@Lacrima, please, this has nothing to do with a particular country, otherwise, you should have given reason why Turkey is still not accepted in EU.

@Trusday, regarding your case, I see lot of Asylum seekers, who did the same thing(what Lacrima suggested for you) are over here and are accepted, because no German want to do those jobs(Like working in Macdonalds etc after NE without further job:-)(just kidding, but its like so))

Perhaps, the authorities are not used to accept an Asylum status person to work as GC :-)

If an Asylum seeker reads this forum, he would really laugh at the questions and fear that most GCs(including myslef) present here. Why? Because, they have known the tricks and the ways to get things done here.

So, let us see forward without disturbing other situation. I wish Trusday that you achieve your goals, but please avoid applying your situation to every GC, because, perhaps, there are some GCs(like myself :-), who would not be able to sleep, otherwise.


Thanks in advance,

GC

"Hi Trusday, * ..."

Did you laugh at me? did you think that i would work as a slave in order to get a right - not to require - but to pray that some official will allow me to stay 1 more year as a slave? if so, i probably would leave the country from where i came long time ago, but no, i waited and came to Germany on a conditions that were offered to GCs, and i will not agree to change anything in that contract with Germany, not without a reimbursement that will allow me to settle in other country that will value me a little bit more.

if this position makes you problems, then those are only your problems, because no man in this world can ask other to become a slave so that he could get a somewhat better position in life. i mean it can be asked, but the person asking should not be surprised at all getting a firm refusal.

you talked that previously i was somewhat helpful in giving help to other GCs? well guess that earlier i had more time and was not so hard pressed as i am now, so why not try to help other people? guess this only shows that i am not the bad guy here *points out on those who think – unlike me – that "Might is right approach prevailing in this world", although there were times when those people – some of them, will not tell names – were more poor as any of us*

the thing is that i can not help you anymore, because currently i have just the possibilities to defend myself, and can only defend myself, nobody else, not at this point of time. You have Detlef, DvD, YO1, Lacrima, Nobody, max, Lawyers and many others who have more time and possibilities to help you, and will gladly do so. i can’t, not without sacrifice, and i am sorry but nobody from you can ask a sacrifice from me, just because nobody from you have ever helped me. This is a simple rule – you help people, people help you, as long as you did not help you can not await anything in return. and to ask for a sacrifice requires even not a lot of help, but something more like saving somebody’s life for example ...

it saddens me that some GCs will probably not sleep well, but hey guys – it’s always better to have an information and be prepared, then something can be worked out before it is too late ... therefore i guess i still helped you – if only by information ...

Look honey...
I have invited you in my home for 3 days....then I reconsider my decision and I say...5 days.
You are the one of several other guests in my home.
Then I have heard that some of my guests want to stay for ever.
OK...If they run and clean my toalet, if they are claping hands on every my showing, if they are doing all that what I do not want to do, and keep the mouth and ...you know, so lets them stay.I have use of them, they have their reasons and who cares.
All that as logn as all is OK!
I do not blame you, I do not care what,why,who and so on...but honney, if you just step a read line over my LAW, then your out for ever.
This is the game, the live rule, the LIVE.
Our (from those who support it) letter to BMI was a question to those who have made the rule for us, to explain exactly what they have want us to do?!
It was not clear what they want althow they have alod us that we can stay as much as we want.
And Thursday, I do not want also to go back in my country...I have lost my brother in the shit war(he was burned out allive), my best friend was killed in front of my eyes...I was beging for milk for my litle dotier and worked for bread,I was also seeing how those who are killing and destroying are know ministers and...
I had a son new born (3 days) and he quit me in street without paymen 5 months in Ingolstadt.
I was beging in Katoliche kirche for eating for my son and dotier.Then they have kik me out in Bremerhaven where he was standing every fucking day upon my head and breading till when the software is done and kik me out 1 day before my probezeit.
And know...he force me to work from 8.30 till 22.00-23.00 ..saturday from 22.00 till 06.00 sunday morning...
FOR WHAT?!
I get NE and what then?
I am still guest in the hous, I still have to fight for my live and pray to Goad that I can be so long alive that I can put my children in some way.
And you know what is funnies at the end: I do not know what will happened tomorrow?!
Go ahead take you case and you war, I wish you all best, I support you, I support all GC in their lives and all what they want...
But remeber something..
We are all diferent in this world since the day we have see the sun till the end day.
We are all people, but diferent kind.
I am not the only one , you are not the only one in your storry, wish, this what are you doing know...
I wish you luck.
But if I have to go I go because of my own mustakens not because I have same name as others 'GC' or 'PEOPLE'.
So do not forget where are you from, where are you coming from and where you belong.
Defenately you do not belong there where you think that in the hous you are invited as a gues, you can become equal as the owner.
No matter if you buy the hous.
Never.
That is my point of view.
And Mr.Detlef, Lacrima, DvD,YO all others...they can not be me, you or opposite.

PS.
IF..if.... we do not stay and have to go back from the owner hous....at least I have enough material to publish a book and to smile and keap going in the next day...if tomorrow come.

"Look honey..."

You chose a wrong example. because i do not know about you, but me Germany invited on very specific terms - that is 5 years residence at once, so long as i am ready to work in IT, and unlimited residence after Immigration Law, which will come in force in any case during those five years.

Now if you invite me in your house on some conditions and later on tell me that conditions are changed to my disadvantage, i am going to demand from you a compensation for the disadvantages and i will be right. if you kick me out from your house regardless of our agreement so i loose my money and you refuse recompensate the losses, my intuition tells me that you will pay 10x of that debt - and that without any possibility to connect your losses with any of my movements.

the same thing goes in case of Germany - Germany can not just change my contract to my disadvantage and pay nothing for that. this is called robbery, and when robbery is commonplace things can get like what you just described - about war, your brother and best friend - a country that supports robbery and does not care about ownership always has problems, it just happens so, and it does not matter if i myself am against violence.

as you said very right, the people are different. think about it: probably you deserved all those things you just described here? deserved why you agreed yourself to accept shit and to say no word against it? but it's your way, if that's fine for you, who i am to tell you something different? follow your own way, i will follow mine. do not tell me that if you eat shit i have to do the same, because i am a free man and i won't - in any case.

and finally: i am sure that your story is directed at a wrong person. tell it to the judges, to make them believe that they want to forget that i am GC. and if you do not succeed do not blame me but the people responsible ;)

lol just thought about subj and found out that the thing may get even more interesting! think about it: all „normal“ GCs have passports and home countries where they are ready to go if need be ... hmmm so the judges decision will actually make them no harm – they can go to their home countries and start there some business bound on Germany – surely they learned something here, made useful contacts and will be ready to apply their new knowledges for the best of their own people. but one „exceptional“ GC without any passport and home country – where will he go, even if he is found guilty? interesting situation we have here, don’t you think? ;)

As I say...
I wish you all luck.
Last night I was waching Terminal with Tom Hanks.
You remind me of Victor from Kakauzija.
I bet you handle to get the 'last' signature.

Trusday,

I am trying to step back and try to wait that your ridiculous comments come to end. I do not want to join this discussion anymore because there is no point doing so.

Being a GC sometime back(or still) does not give you a protection shield. We dont know your story with all the details. Maybe you deserved the treatment that you are facing at the moment. We just dont know in details what you have done to reach this stage of mess. We are hearing only your side of story. Therefore you can not claim here that your story is a good example for everyone. We just dont know other details that may surely effect your situation so please stop flooding the forum with this unnecessary comments.

Let me do an analogy for you to understand it better.

There is a person who entered Germany on a GC work-permit carrying a passport of some country,
then this GC robbed smt or did something really serious against the law, no matter what.(shit can happen) then this GC got some penalty from the court but in between he was free during court-handlings(one does not need to be arrested during court handling), this GC found a job somewhere,
although this GC didnt have any passport or smt and although there was a court-case of some reason running against him, he started to work.
Authorities told the GC, hey what are you doing ?
always-the-right-knows-everything GC told them,
He is a GC and therefore he has superpowers in Germany, he personally signed a contract with Mr. Schröder so no one can touch him even in the slightest way. (Authorities started to suspect whether his mental health was ok which suprises noone after his acts)
then he started to write in a Forum and at first tried to hide the other facts of his situation and tried to make the other people feel unsecure regarding their own situations. When some other forum members with good-memories reminded him the other facts of his story. He started to be aggressive and offered the other members to bet with him regarding his rightfulness. (Forum members started to suspect also at this stage whether his mental health was ok)


Disclaimer: The story I told above has nothing to do with real people. It is just a product of my imagination. In case there are some parts in common with real people then this should be just a coincidence.

This analogy has been given in the hope that ridiculous comments will come to an end and some forum posters will hopefully understand that telling one side of story here by shouting a lot of being right, proves nothing.

Regards,

Lacrima

Nice analogy Lacrima !!!

I agree with Lacrima. I have gone through all this thread and i still wonders.

1. Why dont you write in detail about yourself and how it all started. All you have written is your part of abstract story which is not easy to understand.

2. What kind of help you need from this forum?

3. Please try to be short, comprehensive and to the point in your reply.

1. Do i need it? i mean i had information that is important for you guys so i gave it to you. i didn't come to complain about anything, now did i?

2. I? need absolutely nothing, i always have everything i need! Just hope that i was helpful to you guys, providing you with information ;)

@Lacrima: you didn't have a lot of time to write that story of yours, yes? otherwise it would not contain so many contradictions ... but i understand you, now is Monday and you probably do not have enough time to think up a better one ... somebody does have to work, now is it not true?


hmmmm i would think that some parts of Lacrima's story were taken from his own life. then who is the man, that suspects an insanity in anyone daring to bet against him, as not the always-the-right-knows-everything GC?

*salutes his fellow GCs with a glass of wine* it was a nice working day, a pity it did end so quickly ...

Trusday, go away, stop molesting folks here.
They have certainly more important things to discuss, really.

Save your energy for the great paintings of yours, which you will certanly sell for amazing amount of money.

It will give you appreciation throughout the world too. Stand up and paint!!!

Thanks but no. I am getting too old for something that new, and besides do not have any reason - especially from financial point of view - to change my specialization. then i did already find a cow that is going to feed me the rest of my life, however much milk i should require *thinks about the people of the country from where he came*

Although the cow did not grow up yet, it is really close to a maturity and i guess i can survive on my own couple more years *lol* ;)

or should i say i found an unlimited source of coal, to help me burn the rest of my life *thinks about resources of the country from where he came from*?

You are neither helpful to this forum regarding this issue nor this issue is related to GCs. At first I was in doubt but now I am sure that only German Authorities can help you out of your misery. Stop wasting the time of this forum.

Dear All,

Please stop bashing Trusday.

There was the time 90% of the people here used to wait for his info.He had been so helpful. Now he seems to be in problem .He is stressed up.Please donot trouble him more.

He brought one topic in which he said that the reason what his authorities may use can be harmfull for other GCs.

We all know that the beamtors (many of them ) often take those cases as exapmles which are against the people asking for a settlement)Like GCS asking for NE e.t.c.).

Try to be sympathetic and do not be harsh.

Thanks


Havehope.

What Trusday says is not stupid at all.
I mean it is not completely true also.
Problem is that Beamter like to use some judge decision allthough it has nothing to do with his case.
Example:
I aplied for AB for my wife and I had a same case as one GCler from Ukraina and he won on court of law.
But my Antrag for AB was turned down because Beamter said that she (my wife) needs to have Selbstständigeaufenthalt first, and he found another case where ABH won.
I thought how can it be, and he said that it means that both is possible and legal:
getting AB and not getting AB.

But when I asked details it turned out that in his case womman did receive AB but after receiving Selbstständigeaufenthalt from ABH first.

To translate it it is like if I want to buy tires, and guy wants that I buy car too.
Than I say about some case where some people bought only tires so I should also be able to do it.
And guy says there is another case where guy bought tires and auto and because of that if you do not buy auto you will not get tires.


On the end I got the AB after Widerspruch, so his logic was obviously false.

So the point is that judge decision in Trusday case can not really mean doom day for us, but it is possible that here and there some Beamter uses it against us but WITHOUT LEGAL FOUNDATION.

In that case we would need to raise Widerspruch and maybe even go to court of law to get Beschäftigung erlaubt in our pass.

Hi, trusday!

How are you?

Whole it-ru.de are happy, that you are alive! Everybody is watching this topic!

http://www.it-ru.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58011

Ruslan, zazhigaj!

"I aplied for AB for my wife and I had a same case as one GCler from Ukraina and he won on court of law.
But my Antrag for AB was turned down because Beamter said that she (my wife) needs to have Selbstständigeaufenthalt first, and he found another case where ABH won.
I thought how can it be, and he said that it means that both is possible and legal:
getting AB and not getting AB."

That GC from Ukraina won in the first instance, employment office did not want to go futher. Your wife applied for AB in other city, probably other land as well, there are lots of cases when courts of law from different cities decide completely differently. All first instance court of laws have the same authority, they can decide differently as long as there is no decision of Federal Court on the subject. + it's not a trial, but civil case

Secondly you said very correct that the circumstances were different. When the courts decide about the case in general (which usually includes analysis of many juristic questions and decisions about significance of many proofs) - what the courts of first and second instances do - their decisions may be different, because some curcumstances were different.



In my case it will be decision of BGH (Federal Court of Law) about a particular juristic question, if i am to be found guilty, and this question will be: whether labour market check must be done when GC changes his job or applies for a new residence permit. Decisions of Federal Court of Law are followed by all courts of law. There are some really exceptional situations when they are not followed, in which case the new law suit will come to Federal Court of Law anyways.

Now even when the case comes to the Federal Court of Law for the second time, the Federal Court of Law will in no case decide differently if somebody was found guilty because of previous decision on the same matter. Just because previously sentenced party will immediately demand a compensation otherwise ;)



There probably would be no legal foundation for other GCs if i were arrested so i could not defend myself well. then it would be possible to expect my deportation after the hearing in the court of law of the first instance, which would be of significance only for GCs who live in Mannheim. But it seems that officials do not want to take responsibilities on their shoulders in my case, therefore the case will come to BGH anyways if i am to be found guilty.


"Hi, trusday!

How are you?"


Fine thanks




Btw the case becomes even more interesting. today i received a decision of local employment office - sent yesterday - in which it is said that in my case Alg II is approved till 30.06.2005 (was till 31.03.2005) and in bigger amount than it previously was. so i guess that officials by such a decision suggest me to refuse from my job, continue to receive Alg II and eventially go and work as a cleaning lady. Well they can go work as cleaning ladies themselves for all i care, i would even understand it if they do

But, it's even better for me, really. it gives me a very good possibility to get more money from local employment office and then inform the officials that they paid one my claim vs. them off although they never agreed to pay it off and there is no decision of court of law on the subject

"Everybody is watching this topic!

http://www.it-ru.d...viewtopic.php?t=58011"

sure. after all it's much more likely that the officials will find analogies between the case of one "exceptional" GC and participants of that forum even without any judge decision than, let's say between him and some GC from India ;)

Dear -, (or trusday), you probably already know it, but anyway: if you work simultaneously and get ALG it is afaik straftat, and this is not good. :-( In description of your case I am also missing the part of the procedure where ABH/AA tells you "must do arbeitsmarktcheck", and you give them "widerspruch", if they refuse, then you sue them, and not vice versa as it is happening now :-(. Did you do it, or you simply said, "I do not need AMC, your decision is wrong, I am simply going to work and ignore your wrong decision" ? Of course it is all based and caused by the wrong decision of the ABH/AA (AMC for GC), but I do not know is it possible to make them responsible for all things that happened later ? Oh mann... :-(

Hi Trusday,*

Thank God,

The temperature in Germany has changed a bit to accomodate 3rd world people :-) (Frühling)

Best wishes for on-going situation.


GC

"if you work simultaneously and get ALG it is afaik straftat, and this is not good."

not when you informed officials about your job and they continued to pay you money. in such a case the only thing they can do is to require the money to be paid back

"In description of your case I am also missing the part of the procedure where ABH/AA tells you "must do arbeitsmarktcheck", and you give them "widerspruch", if they refuse, then you sue them, and not vice versa as it is happening now"

Only stupid people would do something like that because they would not be able to work until officials recognise their mistake. which would mean that they would not be able to work at all if officials do not want it, i explained why in some other topic

"but I do not know is it possible to make them responsible for all things that happened later ? Oh mann..."

the mistakes of the officials are usually covered by the people who pay taxes ;)



anyhow i guess the result would be that one country is going to learn why it is bad to deprive their citizens of passports, and the other country is going to get - once more - the necessary help so that it finally will learn how the "Gods children" are to be treated and never again will say something like "citizenship of bastards conforms to citizenship of their mothers"


"The temperature in Germany has changed a bit to accomodate 3rd world people (Frühling)"

hmmm but the five years time period - at least for most GCs - is going to be over when the winter comes ;)

@ _

If you still did not get to the point.

Just mark(with your mouse) :-)



GC

i guess it is a question to our friends Germans, not to me. Then of course they have already all necessary information, and therefore do not want to process my claim where i do make a point that the man who is thought to be my father is not my father in the truth.

and it is really easy to locate the country from where i came, just because those people have shown up themselves without any help from my side, telling that they all read this thread. Not to expect that that country will change its decision and give me any passport, considering that their president already teaches those people a lesson why it is bad to have some "God's children" around


then it's hard to expect from Germans as well that they will stop trying to throw me out, and that at any cost at all, considering that i found a way to put in question all basic principles on which the order rests - not only the citizenship thing -, and that in boundaries of the existing order. it's very well known what happens when the order falls, and our friends from Indien are very good example here ...

unfortunately for the bad guys but fortunately for the good guys our friends from Indien did not write a truth about their bastard - that everybody hated and not loved him, and therefore he had his power from the negative energy ... this resulted in one very bad mistake that Europeans made - and they still think that their churches keep a demon at bay, and going to find out a truth later on ... it's thought as well that there can be no rebirth when the dead are buried in the earth, and that is not true as well ... not to mention that it's hard to await that somebody will be buried in time, when his identity and citizenship is not clarified and when he does not have a passport ...


after a spring always the winter comes ;)

one more interesting comment would be: it seems so that prosecutors do not want to process any information that clearly shows that taxes were not paid and some people worked without any permission when having only tourist visas.

i proved those things by my own example, but of course it comes to a "giant" with name IBM, and then it's to be undestood that slaves are still allowed ... when they fill some man's pocket

cheers ;)