Hi Gcs,

I just want to share with you that I got yesterday my Residence Permit (Niederlassungserlaubniss). I’m green card living in Germany since Sept 2000 and I have been following almost daily the development of the Residence law (Aufenthaltsgesetz – AufenthG) since then. Honestly, all speculations, rumours, opinions and interpretations about the law at all different stages made me crazy. Sometimes I tried to keep my self out of that game because it was torturing me with uncertainty and instability. Finally, after I managed to isolate my self from that entire stuff, I was absorbed again by the news, opinions of politicians, problems of other foreigners living in Germany and depressive discussions about the current economy. At the end my conclusion was “what stupid I am, playing this game without ball and without rules, let’s do something!!!”

In my opinion, if you want to know if Germany is the right place for you to live, just look around and ask yourself, can I manage to get used to the reforms currently undertaken by the Government? Can I manage to live on an economy fighting to perform better? Do I want to learn about the German society, its culture and its traditions? Do I want to share with this new home my background, and my feelings? Now let me ask you something, check the questions mentioned before. Are not all these questions the same you have to ask yourself about any other country you would like to live?... of course there are differences among countries. Some things are better and easier to manage and some other things are worst and much more difficult to deal with, but in almost all of the countries you can do nothing to change the way it works. What I want to point out here is: do not look only outside to decide what to do, first ask your self what you really want? How much are you interested to invest on getting it? And for how long can you stand the situation?

I must tell you honestly; today I’m not jumping of happiness because I got a permanent permit to stay here. Why?, Because it was not a present, it was the result of my daily effort doing my best. Nobody came to my door to tell me “If you want to get the right of stay here without restrictions please sign up here”. The world and the rules do not work in that way, and as many of you have achieved your own goals, you know nothing is for free, and it normally takes much more resources than what you have planed before.

I must thank of course Germany for accepting me as foreign to work here, but I must also point out that it has always been a win - win game: I win - Germany wins and it will be forever like that. I would like the game to be fairer some times, because the lack of information was (and still is) too big, particularly the interpretation of the laws at different offices. People are dealing with “the future and dreams” of others without been properly informed and in my opinion it is devastating.

The reason I wrote this introduction is just because after my experience I would like to suggest you three simple things:

-Don’t let your future be on others hands. Play your game, not others game. If you do not take decisions by your own others will take them for you.

-Keep doing your best and come up with your brilliant ideas. You have the knowledge, the capacity and the persistence.

-Don’t get crazy interpreting or accommodating your personal circumstances to the laws and rumours. Ask for professional advice. It will save you time, white hair and money.

To TRUST7 (Detlef) and to the lawyers of VPMK (Fr. Ponert) thanks for your services and assistance, I appreciate the way how you deal with everything from the very first beginning.

Regards,
saja

Hello Saja,

first congrats. on your NE.

Can you tell us how you managed to get it now 6 months before 5 years ?

Are you from some new EU country ?

Where are you ?

What lawyers did for you ?


Basically we need those details and also everything else what you think that it is important.


Regards,
Dracus

Hi saja,

congratulations to you! And thanks for this interesting summary. I guess this is also valuable for me, before I move to Florida ;-)

@ Dracus

He is talking about our lawyers from VPMK....

http://www.trust7.com/en/services/visa

Have a nice day
Detlef

Hi Detlef,

I know and I also think that soon they will have one more client ;).

I just hope that Saja will answer on my questions because this what happend to him is perfect thing for all of us.

Regards,
Oliver

Hi Dracus,

Sorry, I could not get faster to answer your questions, but here the answers

Can you tell us how you managed to get it now 6 months before 5 years ?

R/:My case was covered under the Paragraph §19 of the AufenthG. Salary and current position were very important in my case.

Are you from some new EU country ?
R/: No, Im from South America

Where are you ?
R/: Im living in Berlin

What lawyers did for you ?
R/: The VPMK lawyers

The complete process took me about 2 Months, first you explain your case to the lawyers and then they let you know what you can do. After that, they proceed with the Application (Beantragung) of the NE, and they keep in contact with the immigration officers (Ausländerbehörde) until you get your final appointment to fetch your NE. Meanwhile you get direct feed backs from the lawyers

I met the lawyers twice at their offices but it is something you can deal with them by phone and E-mail. A face to face meeting is definitively not mandatory.

The lawyers also analyze your case globally. I mean, I could imagine that your wife and your children (if you have) are really important for you, here the lawyers explain you also in detail what differences apply to them.

I honestly talk to the immigration officers (Ausländerbehörde) only yesterday to pay them the fee and to get my residence permit (NE), the rest was done by a friendly lawyer who managed my case. By the way you can speak to her in German, English or also Spanish

Regards,
Saja

Hello Saja,

thanks for your answers.

I guess that you are above 84K € limit then ?

Considering that I will have 5 years in October I will apply in July and according to my AB officer there should not be any problem but you never know .

Congratulations. BTW, where do we find contact details (Phone numbers) of VPMK Laywers?

Please clarify the following:

1)Is it true that if a GC is staying in DE for more than 4 yrs (working throughout)he can get the NE immediately?If not then what can he get at present?

2) Please explain if a GC is working in DE for more than 4 yrss and his GC is expiring in August 05 wht can he do now? NE or extension of his Visa.

3) Is it possible to get a Visa to do any job in such cases and what will be the validity of such visa

4) Please give clauses of the laws applicable for the above.


I request your help and advice on the same.

Hi Chims,

Check this link for more information: http://www.vpmk.de/index.html there you will find telephones and address.

Also check the information posted by Detlef about the kind of services provided by vpmk. http://www.trust7.com/en/services/visa

When you call or send e-mail to vpmk then mentione that you are Green Card holder and you would like to talk to Ms. Ponert.

Have a nice day,

juligori

1)Is it true that if a GC is staying in DE for more than 4 yrs (working throughout)he can get the NE immediately?If not then what can he get at present?

no. you need 5 years. (BeschV § 42.2)

2) Please explain if a GC is working in DE for more than 4 yrss and his GC is expiring in August 05 wht can he do now? NE or extension of his Visa.

make Antrag auf NE 3 months before GC expires

3) Is it possible to get a Visa to do any job in such cases and what will be the validity of such visa

NE is for all jobs but you can get WP for all jobs after 4 y in D or 3 y working in D (BeschVerfV § 9)

zvrrrnnnnnn....
@DvD

NE is for all jobs but you can get WP for all jobs after 4 y in D or 3 y working in D (BeschVerfV § 9)

Question:
Me as GC holder can go and according that, ask for WP as 'kaufman`?

wrong

you can go and ask "Bescäftigung erlaubt"
you should get it according to law but problem is that Beamters do not know it
if they give it, you can work as Kaufman

DVD you are Gr8
What is the validity of this Wp after 4 yrs or 3 yrs of working?

Thanks

"BE" is valid for ever (provided you have AE) and you can do everything wirhout visiting AA

Well Saja,

I'm glad that 'early fruits' are already here - somebody has actually made it, smoothly (or maybe not) with a (little) help from the competent people (VPMK)!

I truly hope now that we'll be finally speared from all those heartbreaking concern-flooded posts over a GC destiny after the famous 5 years. To be quite honest, I've already got seek and tired of those long time ago. These forums are awfully overwhelmed with posts from people that are neither lawyers nor able to understand phraseology used in juridical German (I'm not even sure if they can speak German/English properly) and yet they are so willing to act advisory interpreting the law in usually insane (sometimes even ridiculous) way thus contributing the broader mess affecting most of the GC holders. I even read some posts having explained the actual fight (verbal?) with a clerks at AA/AB teaching them the law and how they should do the work they are paid for. Ironically, for most of such GCs staying/working here and dealing with the bureaucracy (which is here usually far better then in their home countries) was not quit 'bed of roses'. Do some GCs have to always insist on their exclusive ownership on stupidity? Yet, their keen desire to get a PR is so burning. Do they really know why and what to do with it? Is it a really win-win situation? Sorry, but I have doubts.
Nonetheless, please receive my warmest congratulations. If you actually care at all... :-)

More importantly, I'd like to thank you for outlining some issues of the much higher importance as I feel nobody has tackled them seriously/honestly in these forums so far. In the nutshell, we all know (at least, we should) that behind the scene a tinny little rough and bumpy thing called 'integration' waiting for all of us. Sadly, I've gained strong impression that most of GCs are narrowing it to the phrases that lawmakers wrote in the Immigration law (acceptable language skills, familiarity with the pol. system etc.). And even worse, they are so fine with it!? Is it really all? Why would it be taken for granted? Is it really that simple? On the other hand, people like you prove that if someone has a brain, s/he will get it used eventually, and make things right. Thanks, Saja.

I'll be surely repeating some of the questions you've already asked (both us and yourself) in your message, but let me just shape the subject in a bit pragmatic way. So these are questions I'd like to all of you GCs out there ask yourselves (and try to answer, of course):
1. How many friendships (with Germans) you have gained so far?
2. How many people you met here (in general) you're sure you can rely on in the hard times? If quite a few, do you really feel secure and safe?
3. Are you really able to exchange/present ideas (not just information) at you workplace in German?
4. How many German fellow colleagues you hang out frequently with?
5. Have you ever asked your kid(s) how is really going in the school, and how many friends they have gained there? If they're teenagers, are you able to see/estimate the possible hell they might be passing through? Do they know who they are actually, and why not?
6. If you still do not have any kids, have you ever estimated the impact of cultural differences between the legacy you've brought along from your home country and the modern German culture you're kids will so easily (oh, yea) adopt here (they will-be/were born here, right)? Please, don't dare to compare Germany with US because it is simply not.
7. Have you ever been considering buying a house/flat/property here? If yes, why and would you really like to go to the bank to just ask? Think twice!
8. Have you ever found yourself underestimated/underrated at your workplace comparing to the equally skilled German colleagues? If yes, what would you blame on and why? Can you keep dealing with it until you eventually resolve it (ever)?
9. How many of you 'got shorty' due to 'Kurzarbeit'/'Insolvenz' in one of your former companies? Have you already done something about it, and why not?
10. Long-termly, where do you see yourself and your family (if have any) in this society in some years from now?
11. Do you think you 'got soften' due to a self-confidence problem you never had before?
12. Considering your job a beyond-average paid for the country and assuming that you were never earning that much before, what are your savings during the last couple of years, or you were just having a good life? Or maybe you are not satisfied with your income at all because it does not work for you in the long run?

Well, this will do, for the time being at least :-) Feel free to add more please, would certainly be nice. 12 (questions) is the nice number, though.
I wish we could vote :-) Any ideas for having a trust7-polls?

Regards,
Alien

Liber Alien

Nice post man!

I´d like to answer your long post with another (but not so long) post.

Well, I have brain. But I confess you I´m not so intelligent otherwise I didn´t meant to spend some time answering you.

But, I have a couple of problems/stress factors and answering your post made me a little bit calm.

You asked some questions, you have any answers, just comming exclusively from my own point of view, no offenses and no generalizations. Just IMHO.

1. I have good friends here in Germany, germans and also not germans. Even more, I have people that came to me (us - not only me) just when I had problems. This are good friend isn´t it?

2. I met really few people, that´s true, but are better friends than some people I knew from my country. Sincerity here is valuable.

3. Yes I do and actually I always did. My opinion is respected and heared.

4. Null. But I find it quite good. In one of my formers job I met almost dayly my colleagues and at the end they betrayed me. Friendship and work not necesarilly come together

5. I do it frequently, I visit the school and my daughter have more friends than in house, shade they don´t live near us. My kids are not yet teenagers, but name me one country in which teenagers have no problem at all.

6. Is a fact you have to face no matter where you come from this kind of problems. You are not in your home country and this never will be your home country. Good or bad you don´t have borned here.

7. Ok. This is getting good. Now tell me that in your home country the banks are very very good people and generous. COME ON! Banks are banks here, in Nepal and in Chile.

8. Nop. Never. In addition, if you are good enought, just browse in Monster.de and tell me how many more choices you can have

9. Thanks God not yet. But same happens elsewhere! What could it happens in your home country if your company went to bankrupcy? Be honest with your answer.

10. I´m setting the base for that answer now. Ask me next year.

11. Not at all but it start to happens. This is true. Insecurity helps you to be harder and to work harder

12. OK. I hate this question. All the time, is assumed that "I never earned that high before". WRONG!! I earned better before, Germany have high taxes and not all is money in this world. If you are measuring your live here because of money, you came to the wrong place. I do live good, safe and I tell you I can see where goes the money from my taxes.

Alles klar Alien? Nur meine Meinung

Alien,

Have you read my post http://trust7.com/en/forums/integration/how_many_of_you_think

may be I did not explain the way you did but I definitely thought about this word "Integration" and for me it is a big picture where some narrow-mided people ignore to understand just because everything is blue.

regards,
Babloo

I would like to answer this point 12 you made,

Alien asks, "Considering your job a beyond-average paid for the country and assuming that you were never earning that much before, what are your savings during the last couple of years, or you were just having a good life? Or maybe you are not satisfied with your income at all because it does not work for you in the long run?"

I will tell you due to the globalization there is a fear in the developed world that the standard of living will go down atleast in the middle class society and I don't think people will enjoy everything they had before and they had to keep themselves tight when it comes to living standards and this means the salaries will drop in coming decades but who cares these guys are ok with the current situation and forget that the next generation i.e. their children will have to face that and for those who think they could shift back to their countries when they cannot earn more compared to their homeland will face problems with their children mixed up between two different cultures.

I think we all know that here is a bit of challenge we face when you stay away from home. It maybe language/cultural barriers but we should remember clearly that only we made the decision to face this. We clearly knew before we landed here that not all is similar to what we face at home!!

I think complaning is just an excuse for our frustration. If we want to live in a place where all is green!! then i think we have to look for a different planet. We have troubles everywhere.

I have lived 5 years in Moscow. The racists(skinheads)killed one student a month and many students were hit like hell(without any mercy). My brother was attacked all my friends were in hospitals but nothing happened !! We made several complaints to the police but no one took care!! After 5 years of my study, i just felt that we have won the battle because there were so many guys who just fled away thinking life is much better at home( sure!! we dont get hit by skinheads!!).

I am very happy with Germany. People always carry a smile. My wife lived alone all time with my kids when i am out of country and not a single day she felt scared or insecure!! There is no corruption and i dont breathe smoke like in Bangalore!!

Well !! we dont live for money !! we live also for pride. We live in a peaceful place and maybe we miss some cultural events but we have the oppurtunity to create new events!!

So if one has 12 questions to ask if we made the right decisions to stay in Germany. He should answer them as well!!

Regards
Rajesh

Hi all

Please keep all of your answers for yourselves as the questions are intended only for you and your conscience, if you have one, not for me. No hard feelings.

@YO1:

Thanks for the follow-up, but your was damn to fast :-) No offense. Please, just spend some time brainstorming and give all the answers only to yourself, I'm not interested.
BTW. Which is the country with 'higher taxes where you earned better before'? There might be folks interested in moving there, instead.

@babloo:

I just read your 'how_many_of_you_think' post - it is damn good one, and it rocks, just keep that way, buddy. A point taken. Thanks.

I'd still like to see polls in this site? Detlef? Anybody?

KEEP IT REAL

@Alien:

Sorry. I´ll try to be slower in the future! ;-)

Higher salaries? Are you joking? Try search your actual position in the USA and tell me later.

LOWER taxes: even Spain have lower taxes than here. Nordic countries higher than here. Japan also (I guess) but also salaries are higher.

The rest of the world pay less taxes for sure.

About the brainstorming: no way. I would need a brain for that. In addition, I´m here that means in the balance Germany won.

Hi all, and thanks for keeping it real high. It appeals.

@YO1:

No, please do not be sorry. It is for your own good as 'wise men said only fools rushing...' (Elvis) :-)


@rajeshspg:

> I think we all know that here is a bit of challenge we face when you stay away from home.

If you were just know about the challenges I used to have AT HOME.

> It maybe language/cultural barriers but we should remember clearly that only we made the decision to face this.

Correct. Have we also made the same decision on behalf of our children? Or 'they (kids) will just be fine'? Explain this to them as soon as they grow up, hopefully here in Germany.
And the barriers are not introduced with GCs, just go back to 60s when first working labor from Turkey arrived, and then do the time traveling... Ringing any bells?

> We clearly knew before we landed here that not all is similar to what we face at home!!

Hallelujah!

> I think complaning is just an excuse for our frustration.

Would you tell this to you kids if they start complaining one day (maybe)?

> If we want to live in a place where all is green!! then i think we have to look for a different planet. We have troubles everywhere.

I like the spirit in this sentence. Great. Thanks. Did you mean pink? OK, it is just a cultural difference.

> I am very happy with Germany. People always carry a smile.

Know what, I'll be careful... Especially of those with a tie trying to sell you insurance policy that you maybe NOT need as you most likely do NOT have a dog or do NOT enjoy bungy jumping.
BTW. People in China and India are also smiling very often, practically always if you're a pale-skin person.

> There is no corruption and i dont breathe smoke like in Bangalore!!

For your own sake, please get real.

> we live also for pride.

I live for the day when each and every one of our kids will proudly and loudly say: 'I am a German and I am proud of it!'.


KEEP IT REAL, FOLKS

>>I am very happy with Germany. People always carry a smile. My wife lived alone all time with my kids when i am out of country and not a single day she felt scared or insecure!! There is no corruption and i dont breathe smoke like in Bangalore!!<<

I don't want to change your opinion on this but I believe this idea of feeling secure is not possible in all places of Germany for example, one of my friend with his family had almost same trouble in Berlin like your brother had in Russia. These kind of problems you will also face in West Germany but this can change at any time and like you said you will have to face it because you decided to stay here. Coming to corruption and pollution in India, man, I should say you are another typical Indian poster here who would like to bring in some dirty facts. Why will you compare Germany and India? India is a developing country and it makes sense comparing developed countries. It is only in the future you will want to compare that way where India seemed to be emerging as a developed country.

Hi,

I think it is hard to define rules and regulations for choosing/not choosing to live in a foreign land. Some came here with other motives and obviously others came in other motive!!

Now!! if i as a father of 2 children will influence my childrens life in choosing my destiny!! it is utter foolishness!! My children might/might not like the conditions which they live in but they have to accept the reality. I came in from a real middle class family and my father worked hard to make us happy but we never complanied that the other kids have more toys or they have more options to play. We just understood that my parents were doing all for giving us joy and joy has no unit to measure.

It is the same with my kids!! if they have to live they will live with us and they will not complain about that!!

I mean what i say!! If u live in Bangalore you just breathe Benzin smoke. You have to accept this!!

Why do you influence your kids in this young age. Children are just innocent!! Let them play now and dont indulge in any -isms(including Patriotism)
Do you also think our kids are more safe in our home countries??

Regards

>>My children might/might not like the conditions which they live in but they have to accept the reality. It is the same with my kids!! if they have to live they will live with us and they will not complain about that!!<<

I think everyone understands your hard feelings.


>>I mean what i say!! If u live in Bangalore you just breathe Benzin smoke. You have to accept this!!<<

Please man keep these hard hits to yourself. Do you know that you breathe invisible Benzin in Germany too. I thought I read an article long ago that the chances of diseases caused by radiations is too high in developed countries. If I find that article I will put it up here to back-up my argument.


>>Why do you influence your kids in this young age. Children are just innocent!! Let them play now and dont indulge in any -isms(including Patriotism)Do you also think our kids are more safe in our home countries?? <<

I remember when I was a kid my father travelled all places so I had to adjust to different environments and the end result is confusion and loss of appetite for career. So if you plan to put up kids in one place that is fine but moving all around the world will seriously injure their nervous system. The point I am making here is it will be hard for children born and brought up in Germany to go back to India or elsewhere with a different culture background.

Well rajeshspg, your carelessness is discouraging, still I'd like to thank you deeply for posting some interesting remarks.

Now!! if i as a father of 2 children will influence my childrens life in choosing my destiny!! it is utter foolishness!! My children might/might not like the conditions which they live in but they have to accept the reality.

But do not tell me you're not going to help them to overcome possible crisis hence they'll just have to take it for granted ('accept the reality')?!

I came in from a real middle class family and my father worked hard to make us happy but we never complanied that the other kids have more toys or they have more options to play. We just understood that my parents were doing all for giving us joy and joy has no unit to measure.
It is the same with my kids!! if they have to live they will live with us and they will not complain about that!!

Of course you're the one to raise your own kids, but you'll be doing it here in Germany and as you already highlighted, apart from being 'culturally so different' it also unfortunately has no such a nice reputation towards foreigners, not to mention its tradition (an example follows).

Why do you influence your kids in this young age. Children are just innocent!! Let them play now and dont indulge in any -isms(including Patriotism)
Do you also think our kids are more safe in our home countries??

FYI There's nothing wrong with patriotism at any age, but what kind it will be. Do I really need to hint an identity problem explicitly? At least, in your home country, your kids will never have to face confrontation due to a "being different" or "coming from a different culture". Do you know what is the major problem nowadays among Russendeutsche (German minority that used to live in USSR, and that have recently moved back here during the last decade)? Identity crisis! They're mostly lost, not knowing what are they: Russians or Germans? Guessing why? Well, maybe because their parents were "just letting them play" and never bothering to maybe explain them their roots and origins thus embracing one the greatest cultures in Europe, not to mention putting any significant effort towards taking into consideration the actual impact of moving back to the 'heimatland'. What an irony! And this is suppose to be the home country for both them and their children as they all have German origins!

JUST KEEP IT REAL, FOLKS

>>Do you know what is the major problem nowadays among Russendeutsche (German minority that used to live in USSR, and that have recently moved back here during the last decade)? Identity crisis!<<

nice point and I back up your jesture. What people forever are failing to realize is their identity, which is the utmost important thing for a living. I recommend anyone to first look upon this and see if they could achieve that where ever they live in.

Hallo all GC's

Is there any case who is not in Highly skilled category §19 but have got NE.

The main concern in this regard is, if our these five years of job as IT Fackraft will be considered as normal Arbeitbeschäftigung(IT Job) which is the main condition for someone to get NE. Is there anybody who carry an official answer from the germany Authority about the above mentioned question? Thanks

Best Regards
nadeem

off course it will be counted.
Some who worked in D few years before GC allready got NE with
3 y GC + 2 y before = 5 y => NE

some even got NE after studium here:
3 y study + 2 y GC = 5 y => NE

if you do not believe just ask your ABH.

I am here sind deceember 2000 but they told me that I have to wait until November in which Bundesland are u
Thx

Hallo !


Thanks for the info, thats good news. My Auslaänderbehohrde just shocked me with this question. He wanted to clarify this.

Best Regrds
Nadeem