Hello all,

I was at the Ausländerbehörde beginning of the year to collect information on applying for permanent residence under the highly skilled category and was requested to submit the following documents at that time:

• Valid Passport
• Current job and salary confirmation from Employer (form provided)
• Proof of high qualification (letter from employer, educational certicates etc.)
• Salary certifcate for last 3 months
• Proof of health insurance
• Application form
• Photo
• Proof of residence (form provided) + Rental agreement
• €250,00
• Interview

Seeing the complexity of the process, I delayed it until the Bluecard is in place, thinking it would making the process easier.

I was at the foreigner's office today to collect the updated information based on Blue card. I was suprised to hear that I need all the above documents/process together with additional documents below.

• German language proof of B1
• 33 Months salary/social security payments

I tried to argue why the process and paper work has become more complex after Bluecard instead of making things easier for foreigners.

I work in Germany since Oct 2008 (that makes it 41 months) and have a salary above 75K Euro per annum.

Does anyone have the process/list of documents needed for Blue card? After going through the updated law at http://www.bluecard-eu.de/eu-blue-card-germany/law/bc.html (§ 19a, Para (6)) it appears to me that I do not need B1? Am I right

Any help would be highly appreciated.

I visited Ausländerbehörde yesterday and they asked me the following things.

1. 3 month Salary slips
2. Passport
3. Photo
4. B1 Certificate
5. Diplom (If I have)
6. 33 Months Rente

I guess if you have a Diplom from Germany, they don't ask for other qualification proof. In my case, I don't have a degree from Germany.

Hi Nirmalts,

you are one of the 'category' Bluecard = Disadvantage. I already wrote in very early posts and in many mails I got that it is unsure IF and HOW the new Bluecard system affect persons who came to Germany before the 1st of August 2012.

In your case it should not affect you at all, because you came in 2008 and you applied (if you applied) before the 1st of August. So take all required documents and go to the alien office again and apply for NE under Paragraph 19 before the end of this month. In this case the Bleucard rules should not affect you at all and you should not need: 

• German language proof of B1
• 33 Months salary/social security payments

Good luck
Detlef

Hello Detlef,

Thanks for your quick answer.

Unfortunately, I am on holiday now and won't be able to make NE application by end of the month. Would this be a big disadvantage that I have to think of cutting short my holiday plans?

If I understand (interpret) Paragraph 19 b (6) correctly, B1 is required only to reduce 33 months of salary to 21 months and get an earlier NE. This means if you have 33 months, you don't need B1. Is this correct? If this is true, then I don't see any disadvantage for people who came before 1.Aug.2012 and have already 33 monhts. The advantage on the other hand would be the fee reduction from €250 to €150 (?).

Nirmal

Hi again,

I do not know for sure. From my point of view (but I am no lawyer) it should not matter if you apply later then the 1st of August because you came here under the old law so the old law should be 'your law' ;-

And yes, you are right, in your case there is no disadvantage. It is a disadvantage for highly qualified experts who could apply for NE right from the beginning of their time in Germany, even with only one or some month of work. This possibility will be cancelled after the 1st of August.

Relax and have fun during your vacation 

Detlef

Hello Detlef,

As you rightly said, the new law is not favorable for highly skilled people who want to get an NE immediately. With the old law, they could get it from Day 1. With the new law, they need to wait for 33 months (or 21 months incase they have a B1 language certificate). This could affect people who need to take financial credit (for example, to buy a house). Reason being, the Bluecard will be for 4 years and they would get any credit only for max 4 years. This exactly is my motivation to get an NE now. I hope it works out fine without having to now take a B1 exam after 4 years in Germany and being able to speak pretty ok German (Swabisch) ;)

Thanks again for your advice.

Regards,
Nirmal

Hi,

I had attended the session held by KVR people regarding Bluecard and they clearly said that, if you have paid rent 33 month in germany and salary is above 35K for engineer then you will get the bluecard next day and on the same day or just after the moment you got the bluecard , once you get the bluecard then apply for NE.
What is requyired for NE for high qualify: if you are a bluecard holder and you have paid a 33 month rent in germany then you are eligible for NE without B1 certificate but if you have B1 certificate then you can get NE in 21 month.

@Nirmalts, you will get NE without B1 but you need first bluecard then NE, but it will cost more compared to if you get NE directly.

Second Important Answer:
For example, if any one is eligible for NE based on salary limit that is 65K,,
Now que is: one guy go to foreign office in July 2012 for applying NE based on his salary is above 65K but due to long waiting he got appointment after 1st of Aug 2012, Does there any possibility that that guy will get NE based on old law as new law start from 1st aug 2012 and in new law  NE can't get based only on salary but if you are scientist then only its possible to get directly NE ?

Answer: You should wait till your appointment date even if it is later than 1st of aug 2012. You will get it or not it is based on case by case. but you should try for it.Ideally, rule says foreign office should not issue but still foreign office take decision based on case by case.

so In my opinion based on above answer: chances are 50-50%,so wait till you appointment and if it didnt work then on that day apply for bluecard

Hallo All,
First I thank everybody in this form for providing a valuable discussion by opening this Thread.

@Jp: Greetings,

I would like to know from your meeting about this following points:

“if you have paid rent 33 month in Germany and salary is above 35K for engineer then you will get the bluecard next day and on the same day or just after the moment you got the bluecard , once you get the bluecard then apply for NE.”

Whether it is must to have 33 Months Rente.Versicherung  or its OK that if one pays 24 Months Rente.Versicherung with salary above 35K to get Bluecard first then Apply for NE.
 
I ask this question because I stay in Germany since 2008, but I made a break for 5-1/2 Months (2010, went back to India) then I am back again to Germany on the same year 2010 with unlimited contract.

Currently I am having BE (Company independent visa), as ABH considered my previous 2 years stay in Germany, and told me 2013 is the year for me to get NE, but in my previous visit to renew my wife's visa, there was another ABH and told me they will not consider my previous 2 years stay in Germany and I need to wait till next three years to get NE, eventhough i submitted my B1-Certificate.

I got my B1-Certificate this January. So taking in consideration the 5-1/2 Months break if I calculate the no. of months in my second visit I have paid 24 months Rente.Versicherung Geld.

Hint: this 5-1/2 months break I voluntarily paid 3 months Renter.Geld.

Kindly tell me is it possible to get NE for me.

Thanks in Advance
Raj

Hello,

I applied for NE today under the highly qualified category. Although I submitted today (on 30.Jul.2012), they did not confirm if they would process it under the old law or the new one that comes into force from 1.Aug.2012. I am hoping that it gets through without having to go through the trouble of applying for Bluecard and then a NE.

These are the documents I submitted:

• Current job and salary confirmation from Employer (using form provided)
• Proof of high qualification (letter from employer, educational certicates etc.)
• Salary certifcate for last 3 months
• Proof of health insurance
• Application form
• Another form stating I am not under trial for any crime
• 1 biometric photo
• Proof of residence (form provided) + Rental agreement
• €125,00 fee

Although I clearly said I want to process it under the old law, they asked me for a B1 certificate and 33 months social security payment proof (they don't seem to have any clue on whats required even for Bluecard based NE processing as both the documents above are contradicting).

Hoping for the best!


Regards,
Nirmal

Hello,

I am living in Germany since sep 2006. I finished my studies and working as SE almost 3 years. I applied NE one month ago, after 3 weeks, i recieved called from behorde that our process is finished. According to their process to reach total 60 rente versichrung, still 5 month are less. So I have to wait 5 months and then come again. 

According to new blue card law, I need 33 or 21 pension. Which I am sure that i fullfilled the requirements. What you guys suggest me what to do. Wait 5 month or go again to ask any possiblity according to new law. 

Regards
Janjua

I got the answer from AB today that they are processing my application under the new law

Since I have a degree from India, now they need a proof to say that the degree is equal to some degree in Germany. This they asked under the assumption that I have applied for a Bluecard. When I said, I want only NE and not Bluecard, they said they will check again and get back to me.

Nirmal

Hi all,

it is confusing and no clarity.
if i want to apply for blue card from Bangalore , India . what are the list of documents required to apply blue card visa?
or is there any other process like first we need to apply normal long term work permit (if job contract is 1 year) and then we wil get blue card after going to germany?

please clarify

I read all info posted under this thread as well others on this website regarding Blue card, Niederlassung, Daueraufentshalt

But I am only getting more confused

I started off in 2007 April as a Masters Engineering student in Germany and has been working here since October 2010. If i understand right I should belong to the old law then since I landed early. I also have my wife here who is currently a masters student in Germany

Could someone tell him if I am eligible for Blue Card or should I ask for Daueraufentshalt-EG at the foreign office

Thank you for your support

Regds
frbg

HI NIrmal,
   any update regarding the degree certificate?

   and also, which city are you from?

Gladiator

Hello all,

A short update on my NE status. I finally got my NE today. It look a long 2 months of clarifications until I got it.

A quick recap:

I applied for NE under the old category of Hochqualifizierte on 30.July.2012. As the new law for Bluecard came into existence on 1.Aug.2012, the ABH did not process it under the old law (eventhough I submitted the application before the new law came into existence). They however said they can do an exception under some § and gave me NE without applying for Bluecard. The total cost was 125€ (including the eAT card). I submitted all the documents as in my first post except German language proof of B1 and translation of degree certificate.

It is now clear that people who are already in Germany before Bluecard came into existence can apply for NE directly provided the conditions for NE under the new law are met (this means, without having to apply for Bluecard).

This in the end also means the new law is superior to the old NE law for Hochqualifitierte in that the salary limit is much less. Nonethless, on the negative side, there is no immediate NE possible anymore. The minimum waiting time for NE is now 21 months.

Thanks Detlef and all others all for the excellent support you provided me here.

Hi,

congratulations to your NE and thanks a lot for your update/information!

This will be helpful for others 

Detlef

Hi Raj (brain_teaser),

You can get NE anytime as per new law ,as you have B1 certificate + 21 month rent paid + salary as per bluecard rule.
First, you have to apply for bluecard  and once you have applied for bluecard ,immediately you can apply for NE based on bluecard.
Good Luck. and dont forgot to update here.

Hallo Jp,

Thank you very much.
I have started the same process and waiting for the reply our ABH.

Cheers
BT

I will be completing 5 years working in Germany this month (Dec 2012) with salary above 90K Euros. I am told that I can apply for a Blue card with unlimited validity.

1. Is Bluecard with unlimited validity better than the NE ?

2. How does Bluecard with unlimited validity affect citizenship process as compared to NE ?

Hello,

There is nothing called BlueCard with unlimited validity. Bluecard is always limited. BlueCard is for newcomers to Germany and you could, after staying in Germany for a particular period, convert it into a NE based on some conditions (you will find the details in BlueCard section of this site). The older rule of getting an immediate NE based on salary does not exist anymore and every newcomer has to go through BlueCard and then to NE. In your case, since you have completed 5 years of stay, you could apply for NE directly under the "5 years rule". You dont need to take Bluecard and you will get NE directly.

All the best!

Regards,
Nirmal

Hi

I came to Germany on a workpermit in September 2012 . I applied for Resident permit card . The visa officer issued visa till the validity of workpermit contract but issued a paper specifying my blue card number . she informed that i need to get another  appointment to get plastic  Blue card

I really dont understand , why visa officer gave Blue card number when i came to this country on a workpermit .

Any views ..

Thanks
RJ

Hello,

I found this forum useful, however I sill have not been able to find answers to few of my questions regarding a Niederlassunserlaubnis.

As a non EU National residing in Germany since April 2007, I became eligible for a permanent residence permit in this month. But unlike the ealier form of Dauerauftenhalt-EG now it seems we have NE für Absolventen Deutsche Hochschule. As I did my technical masters in renewable energy. The ABH said I was eligible for this NE. And said that I could choose between the two. But I am not sure which is more better.

I understand with the 18 b NE, I could work and move within EU. I have been working for the last 2 years in Germany and this can increase my mobility.

I am also married and would definitely like to know if it has advantages for my wife. Can my wife who is also a non EU National get a NE along with me or do I have follow some other procedure. Shes currently a masters student in Informatik.

Will I be eligible for unemployment money with the NE.

With NE, should I still wait another 3 years to apply for German citizenship.

Could some one help me elaborate on these questions possibily and also other advantage which I might not be aware of.

Thannk you for your feedback.

Thanks Nirmal.

I understand that for NE, one needs to submit an integration certificate. I have done about 600 hours of German lessons in VHS and have the certificates. Is that sufficient? Where can I get the integration certificate? I speak reasonably good German.

Hi all,
Hi Brain_teaser,

First of all, thanks for the very useful disscussons and information here about immigration.

I have a question which is extremely important to my life:

I have done my PhD. in computer Science in Germany from November 2007 to december 2011. I have had a half-time work contract with the university from April 2008 to the end of my studies. 10 months out of this whole period due to maternity leave I received no salary and 2 months out of that 10 month I even officially had no work contract (the other 8 months out of the 10 months I kept the contract with zero salary).
By the way, in fact the last 6 month of 2011 my work contract changed from half time to 3/4 time.

Then since the beginning of 2012 (after finishing my PhD.),  I have been working full time in germany.

Based on this background, when do you think I may be able to apply for a permanent residence permit?
I did not apply for a BlueCard last January when I had to renew my residence permit, because I had the impression that the years that I have been studying/working in germany will be lost then and I would need to wait another 2 or 3 years (which one is the case for Bluecard, perhaps 33 months?). Is this true at all?

If I apply for a BlueCard now, Will that make me able to apply for a permanent residence permit immediately too? What makes my way shorter to get a permanent residence permit?

I will really appreciate to get reliable information from anyone with knowledge/experience about this.

By the way, if you think there is any possibility to get a german passport in near future for me, please let me know. 

regards,
Sara
 

Hallo Sara,

Greetings,
First for getting Blue card, you must have a German or German-recognised Professional degree.
In your case you have it as you have done Phd. in Germany.

To get PR from Blue card, there are 2 possibilities:
1. 21 months of German.pension contribution with salary mentioned in blue card rule (+) B1-Certificate.
(OR)
2. 33 months of German.pension contribution with salary mentioned in blue card rule.

The rule for getting PR through Blue-Card for Old resident-permit holders are as follows:
1. If you have B1-Certificate, sum up your 21 months salary from the table below:
Year            Minimum salary                           Minimum Salary for Shortage Professions

2012            €.44.800 (Yearly)                         €.34.944(Yearly)
                   €.3.734 (Monthly)                        €.2912 (Monthly)

2011           €. 44.000 (yearly)                         €. 34.320
                   €.3.667 (Monthly)                        €.2860

2010           €. 44.000 (yearly)                         €. 34.320
                   €.3.667 (Monthly)                        €.2.860

2009           €.43.200  (Yearly)                         €.33.696 (Yearly)
                  €.3.600(Monthly)                          €.2.808 (Monthly)

As you are computer profession which comes under "Shortage Profession" take the salary from the second coloum.
your 21 months from last May would be:    01.09.2011 till 31.05.2013

Your last 4 months salary in  2011 should be greaterthan or equal to (4 x 2860)
Your 12 months salary in 2012 should be greater than €.34.320                    
Your 5 months salary in 2013 should be greater than (5 x 2912) (As we have no ref for 2013 we take 2012's salary).

Sum up all the 21 months salary which should be greaterthan (4x2860) + (34.320) + (5 x 2912)
Then you will get your Niederlassungerlaubnis through Bluecard (§19aAbsatz.6)

Simillarly calculate for 33months if you dont have a B1-Certificate.

Hope this clarifies your query.
About German passport other members should comment, I have no Idea.

Hi brain_teaser,

Thank you very much. Your reply was really helpful. I am going to check if I have all of these conditions to start the process.

bests,
Sara

Hi brain_treaser,

I got two more questions:

- If few months at the beginning of of these 21 months go back to when I have been still studying (when I still had residence permit paragraph 16 (not 18)), will that be a problem, even if the sum of the salary in the whole 21 months fulfills the BlueCard requirement? I mean does it matter what kind of residence permit (study or work) the person has been holding during that 21 months (does it have to be paragraph 18?)? 

- Do I also need to take integration course (orientation course), even if I can prove that I have the German language rquirement? and in general how should I prove my German knowledge to them, is any special kind of tests required or the certificates from the courses that I took would be enough?

I will really appreciate if you answer these questions too.

best regards,
Sara

Hi Brain_teaer,
Hi everyone,

Sorry for asking too many questions. I need to know about these questions:

- How should I prove my German knowledge to the Rathaus to include in my BlueCard application (what kind of exam/certificate shall I take and also does 'integration' mean another exam rather than German language)?

- My husband has also had German residence permit for the years that I have but has not been working in Germany (except 2008 and 2009 when he has been working in Germany the rest of the time his residence has been dependent on me). If I get BlueCard and permanent residence now, when can he apply for the permanent residence? How about my little son?

- If I fullfill the 21 months requirement, but during the first 3 months of that I had a &16 residence permit (I was a PhD. student with half time work contract with the university), is it still enough to apply for BlueCard?

It would be a great help if someone can answer any of these questions.

bests,
Sara

Hello Everybody,

I am working in Germany since from last 3 years on Work Permit and was working for an Indian IT company on deputation and was not part German social security sytem but paid Income Tax for all 3 years and now I am working for German Company and applying Blue Card.

My question is what will happen for my last 3 years and also whether I am elgible for NE with Blue card option as per 33 months process.

Hallo Sara,
Sorry for the late replay.

1.How should I prove my German knowledge?

To prove your German Skills you need B1-Certificate, you can persue this through Volkshochschule or Inlingua Institute. Approach your near by Volkshochschule and ask them about B1-Prüfung.
Its is better to write also the Orientation Exam or (Einbürgerungstest will be more better in case you need German Passport) also ask Volkshochschule about this Exams (FYI this will be very easy exams for you )

2. About your Husband, he needs also to statisfy the same condition as you to get PR. There is no quota consideration like in the case of Citizenship persual through spouse. About your son you need to ask the citizen officer, I know a rule on birth if any one of the parent holds PR then the new born will also be granted PR automatically. But after birth I don't have any Idea.

3. Your 3rd question need 2 conditions to be satisfied:
    a. With 21 months "YOU NEED B1-CERTIFICATE" if not wait for 33 months.
    b. Its written that only the residence permit  "§18 Absatz 4" Aufenth.G in connection with "§27 Beschäftigungsverordnung" will be considered for calculating the 21 or 33 months to presue PR via Blue-Card.

Please contact your Forgien Officer have these above points in mind, I would like to also add one more point about "§ 18b Niederlassungserlaubnis für Absolventen deutscher Hochschulen" PR for those who studied in Germany but again this is also for those who hold Residence Permit under: §18. Its just a tip.

The Forgien Officer can tell more or decide more on your case. Check my posts to know more links on Orientation course.

Cheers
BT

Hello again,

Thanks a lot for the very helpful information. 

Another thing that I am wondering about, is if the numbers that you gave about the salary requirement include also the Weihnachtsgeld (and maybe urlabsgeld)? or the sum of the salary in the salary statements of a year must be somthing higher than the numbers you mentioned because normally they include these kind of additional amounts?
I am asking this because I heard today that the requirements for the salary say also something about with and without  Weihnachtsgeld/urlabsgeld.

Bests,
Sara

For BC

The salary requirement as per ARbeit agentur is Yearly 36192 euro Basic only. (It should not include any urlaubsgeld or weinachtsgeld or any special addl payment)

So Please be aware and then proceed. Some people say it is below this amount, certainly not. 

http://www.bamf.de/EN/Infothek/FragenAntworten/BlaueKarteEU/_function/faq-table.html?nn=3064818

Here is the most clear thing that I found:


Do bonuses such as Christmas bonuses count towards the minimum gross annual salary?

Some bonuses are credited towards the gross salary. This is in particular the case if they are specified in a minimum amount in the employment contract, in other words if their payment is guaranteed and not subject to conditions. Benefits of the employer that are listed in the social insurance compensation regulations (http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bundesrecht/svev/gesamt.pdf) as allocatable payments, such as free lodging or reduced commuting fares, can also be included in the calculation of the gross salary. The decision as to which benefits can be credited in individual cases and the amount in which they are included lies with the competent foreigners authority.

Hi Brain-teaser,
Hi all,

Based on http://www.bluecard-eu.de/eu-blue-card-germany/, the minimum gross salary to get EU Blue Card is 46,400 Euro per year.

My question is as follows. Assume that someone has been working since few years ago in Germany. Now if he or she wants to appliy for Blue Card in the middle of the year and let's say end of June for example, then how do they know how much the gross salary by the end of the year will be?

Do they look at the sum of the gross salary from the beginning of the same year until end of June and divide it by 6 (number of months from January to June) and multiply it by 12 (to translate it to the gross salary of the whole year)? 
If so, the Weinachtsgeld will be missing then.

Or do they have a way to ask the arbeitsgeber about the gross salary of the whole year?

Or may they look at the last one year salary, no matter if part of it goes back to 2012? 

Please leave comments if you have any information about this.
Thanks,
Sara