Hi ritris,

If I would have been outside of Germany, thinking to come here, then I would have changed my mind after reading your post. But it is good that I am already here.


Germany is a country with lots of bureaucracy and due to this people just follow what is written in books. People in Ausländerbehörde are sitting in their comfort seats and are not always updated with the new changes in the laws. This is the reason that we have to suffer many times.

When a person leaves his country and plans to migrate to some other land, its a bold and ambitious decision. This also proves that you are smarter than lot of other people.

I am in this country since last 8 years and like many others have my own set of experiences. Based on that I would like to suggest you and all others to "be smart" in Germany. Dont take what beamter is saying, but try to verify it on your own or try to seek some help from a specialist.

One of my friend did his masters (in English) from here and then could not find job immediately. Due to some misunderstanding the lady in Ausländerbehörde got angry on him and refused to extend his visa and told that him that he has to return back and she will not extend his visa in any case. He was very depressed as he did not wanted to return but had no options. By chance, he met me just 1 week before leaving. I told him that she has the authority to reject your request but there are some laws in this country. A person who has done his master in IT has the right to stay here for one year and search for job. I referred him to one lawyer from Trust7 and finally he got Visa and now he is doing job since last 2.5 years.

In short, there are laws and are very good. You just need to find them. I have seen many cases, which seemed to have no hope but were able to find solution.

Abut ALG, in my knowledge, if a person was employed for 2 or more years, then he can avail the ALG I for 1 year. And this means that Ausläenderbehörde will have to give Job search visa for this time. If they try to make some stories or if arbeitsamt try to play games, then simply check with a lawyer. This will cost 100 € or less but then it is worth it.

There is a way in which this country works. We are not used to many of its ways, and they seem weird to us, but our efforts should be to learn the rules of the game and then play smartly. If you can understand and implement what I wrote, then you will notice that Germany is one of the best countries to live. US, UK, Canada, or Australia does not comes close to it. There are some problems, but they are not difficult to overcome.

I have seen people living here since last 25 years and complaining about everything here. But there are also people who integrated well and enjoy the culture and system.

So my suggestion to all is to "be smarter" and look for solutions.

@nishu09

Regarding the incident that you said, it was possible even through lawyer because it was written in the rule book that a student is elligible to get a 1 year job search visa, else even the lawyer also could not had done anything.


And regarding giving visa without job there is no rule anywhere, because the immigraction act clearly states a visa can be given if a concreate job offer exist. SO even the smarter of the smartest can't do anything in this because there is no where written that a job search visa should be given to someone who was working and became jobless.



If we compare a -ve thing with something more -ve(like US,UK,Canada) it will definetly look better thats obvious. but that does not mena the less negative is right.

Regarding going to a lawyer thats most of the foreigner would like to avoid and not go into a legal battle with any govt. department.

A lawyer can only get the things done if there exist legal clause.
And for the subject I wrote in the post there exist no legal clause(said by a lawyer)

So in short even if someone after knowing the rules decide to go to a particular country then his/her mind is prepared.

And regarding the bureaucracy I have one thing:

All the people so far who gave their comments in this post are foreigners and no one ever accepted that legally thats not the right law/rule (If something is law it don't necessarily means its right, but only thing is one is bound to follow as there is no alternative)

Comments from my German friends and Colleges when they came to know about what I wrote in this post:

"Its shame on our bureaucracy"

So only one conclusion comes that all the people who gave their comment and not for a single time said that is wrong, they are so over burdened and feel so indebted that Germany allowed them to work and reside/settle here, that they have forgotten to even accept the wrong as WRONG.I think where ever we go on this world we should atleast not forget the difference between right and wrong.

Atleast you accepted that by reading this post people will decide accordingly. And one thing those people who go to the US,UK,Canada or other countries are never aware about the laws/right until they reach there, and by then its late.

@ritrits

This is true that if something is not in law then even lawyer can also not do anything. But still sometimes you can change your strategy and approach. I don't know if you know this that when we come from India, we can get out Indian driving license converted to German, only by passing the theory and practical, without any compulsion to attend the classes. This saves lot of time and money. But the law allows 3 years to do this after that one has to apply fresh. In my case, I applied after 4 years. My application was rejected but I still tried and then my application was accepted. I was new in this town and I knew no one here. I was myself surprised when I got the acceptance letter but this was lesson for me to know that its not so bad here. Some people have heart and are ready to listen and help you.

The incident about my friend which I mentioned was possible only through lawyer. Because it is sometime useless to argue with Foreign office employees. They will get more irritated.

But one internal information is that they are afraid of dealing with lawyers. Reason, when a lawyer send them something they have to properly go through lot of laws and books before replying to lawyer. But they also know the fact that not everyone goes to lawyer and may be not every lawyer is good to present the case.

Like you have written, a foreigner has to work minimum 2 years for becoming eligible to start getting ALG I. This is true. Which means if somebody loses job after 1.5 years or even 1.11 years, then he will not get ALG I, but once this limit has crossed, meaning if he has contributed to unemployment benefit for 24 months, then this person is entitled to get ALG-I for 1 year. For this he should get Visa. He will not get for 1 year, but for 3 months, but this will be extended every time, and this can go for 1 year. This law we cannot find easily but a lawyer dealing with such issues should be knowing this. I knew this since a long time but if something has changed in past few years then I don't know.

You are right the wrong is wrong but it is everywhere. There is no place with everything right. Everywhere, some or the other thing is wrong.

But your experience is yours. Anyone who has not gone through your situation may not understand you completely. Every one has different experience.

I have also heard these comments "Its shame on our bureaucracy" from my German colleagues but my answer to them is that this is why this country is still doing well. Bureaucracy is very irritating and makes lots of processes slow and I haaaaaaate it :-) but still I feel that because of it, I have been able to raise my voice at many instances.

People here (even myself) not feel indebted, but I think that everyone here, in initial years had a temptation to leave and go to US or UK, but somehow they got settled here and started getting used to the system, learned how to deal with it and somehow started liking it.

My postings are getting very long, I want to avoid it because it could become boring for others.

Best of luck and keep posting if you have some other issues or problems. This forum have some very good people who try to help solve the problems and confusions.

Take Care

@ritrits

To cut a long story short, lets assume you knew the followings things about german system before coming here:

1. You would pay Arbeitlosenversicherung and would never get the benefits (forget 2 years limit)

2. You would pay Rentenversicherung and would never get the benefits (not even after 67)

Do you really think it would have changed your mind? This question is open to all forum members, but please answer honestly.

It is not a choice between good and bad but rather between bad and worst.

To be honest I think no one cares if they don't get ALG or Pension back..but getting a job would be a high priority initially.

When some one has to pay the mandatory taxes, we are not questioning about it.for eg: solidarity fund etc..they are part of the package.

Even worse is the PhDs/Students paying Arbeitslos insurance will never get the ALG if they go back or stay here without a work permit.

Such things has to be challenged in courts to amend the laws. May be they need attention.
Either way the outcome must be to get the insurance paid back or get visa/ALG.

@nishu09

First of all I would like to correct you that to be elligible for ALG one don't need to work 2 years,even if one have worked 1 year (which is min)one is entitled to get 6 months ALG.

But one thing depends from Abreitsamt to Arbeitsamt that some Arbeitsamt need the Visa to be company independent some don't emphasis on that.

Yes I am aware about the Licence and also that the Indian licence should had been issued before entering Germany.

Well this post was for the informaiton of someone new coming to Germany and not my personal problem, luckily I am not in that problem, but yes a friend of mine was. But then I thought to make all aware because still there are many who are in Germany since many years, still not aware about it since they are lucky, that they did not come under that situation and I hope they never come in future too.

@akshay

Honestly speaking when one get a job one don't bother much because economic crisis don't occur frequently so people don't loose job so easily or companies don't close their dept. so often, but if one knows the circumstances then one's mind is prepared for that.

Do black labour - this way you dont pay taxes,social insurance, solidarity etc.. U get the benefit of every single cent you earn.

OR

if you have the guts like the group "Hells Angels" , then openly defy the government and dont pay any taxes or anything else.

@Raj @ritrits
I am in the same situation right now. My Visa is company dependent, so the thing is that, and i think i can agree with ritrits but not with raj, is that, we dont want to get money for free if we are unemployed.
At least, I dont want to pay an insurrance that doesnt covers me. Is like if I buy a car insurance, and then I have an accident and the people of the insurance says to me "ohh no we cannot help you because you are not a UE member". So I rather go whithout paying insurance.
In my case I am paying 200EUR per month for the uneployment insurance, so I rather save that by myself and If I lose my job, I just go back to my country with the 200 EUR I save every month.

but is it posible some how not to pay that?
I mean, money for free for unemployement? I dont care, I dont want it, in my country you loose the job and then you have to get another one otherwise you dont eat for the next months. What I dont want is to pay for something which I dont have the right to use.

It is mandatory as far as I know...you can not escape to pay for arbeitlos insurance. I never have heard of somebody who did so. You find this problem heavy discussed here also on diferent links. The problem is found as "Stuck between Auslaenderbehoerd and Arbeitsagentur"

Very useful:

http://www.trust7.com/en/foren/start_up/registration_for_arbeitlosgeld/re_registration_for_arbeitlosgeld__2

wow this is an old thread! I just want to say that the best you can do is to avoid to get unemployed while having a visa bound to the arbeitsamt. and avoid to become unemployed. to be unemployed in germany is not only a nightmare for us "foreigners" but also for native germans. try to stay as far as you can from the arbeitsamt, that's my advice.

@raj2001

Your comments are too scary..

You sound more like saying..
-we are cheap labour (not sure about you..but thats not me and dozens more people I know)
-thank you for selling us an insurance that does not cover the cause for which it is sold
-go back to your country, if you feel like criticizing something and this way never hope for an improvement and also never try for it.."never criticize.. accept everything"
-Everything is perfect here. All papers=job done. Go through stories of trust7 only.

I agree that there are many plus points in living in Germany but that never mean we should ignore all minuses. World and Germany won't improve that way. At least do not go so aggressive against someone who utters few words against system.