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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro

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NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Abu Ismail 13.01.07 11:29
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Guvenc Gulce 13.01.07 14:02
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro trust7 13.01.07 19:22
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Guvenc Gulce 13.01.07 20:37
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 13.01.07 22:27
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Johnny English 14.01.07 00:56
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro trust7 14.01.07 01:18
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Guvenc Gulce 14.01.07 11:24
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 14.01.07 17:41
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 21.08.07 06:36
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rakhi R 23.08.07 13:44
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 24.08.07 00:02
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rakhi R 24.08.07 12:45
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro trust7 24.08.07 13:14
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Goldy Singh 24.08.07 13:18
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rakhi R 24.08.07 15:52
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 24.08.07 16:18
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rakhi R 24.08.07 16:43
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rakhi R 27.08.07 12:48
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Goldy Singh 27.08.07 13:21
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Emil Atanasov 28.08.07 21:03
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro rahul sharma 29.08.07 16:35
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rakhi R 29.08.07 23:08
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro ka sr 30.08.07 16:33
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro rahul sharma 30.08.07 16:40
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 05.10.08 16:34
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 14.11.08 23:25
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Truster Truster 15.11.08 18:05
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 15.11.08 18:23
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 16.11.08 04:48
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 29.11.08 00:03
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 29.11.08 00:06
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 01.12.08 20:52
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro arianna fehr 02.12.08 15:18
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 02.12.08 15:36
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 02.12.08 19:08
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 08.12.08 03:46
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 17.12.08 23:59
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Inder 21 18.12.08 10:00
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Krishnadoss 18.12.08 11:48
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 18.12.08 13:55
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajendra K 18.12.08 17:51
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 18.12.08 18:55
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 20.12.08 12:04
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Santanu Kundu 20.12.08 12:21
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 20.12.08 12:58
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Suresh Gattu 20.12.08 14:16
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 20.12.08 14:33
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro trust7 20.12.08 14:46
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Guvenc Gulce 20.12.08 16:19
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 20.12.08 16:34
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 21.12.08 00:22
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 02.01.09 01:32
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Truster Truster 02.01.09 16:17
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 03.01.09 12:03
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro krishna reddy Minkuri 09.01.09 15:51
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Krishnadoss 09.01.09 16:41
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajendra K 09.01.09 17:18
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 09.01.09 20:58
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 12.01.09 18:07
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Krishnadoss 12.01.09 18:47
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Suresh Gattu 13.01.09 13:11
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 13.01.09 13:49
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro krishna reddy Minkuri 13.01.09 14:18
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 13.01.09 14:46
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro krishna reddy Minkuri 13.01.09 16:52
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Suresh Gattu 13.01.09 21:16
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Truster Truster 14.01.09 11:44
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro krishna reddy Minkuri 15.01.09 12:03
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 15.01.09 23:27
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Dee Jay 22.01.09 19:25
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 22.01.09 19:53
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro kp singh 30.01.09 15:32
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Johnpa12 Stanley 31.01.09 01:25
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 31.01.09 14:32
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro kp singh 01.02.09 05:49
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 01.02.09 12:43
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro krishna reddy Minkuri 04.02.09 11:47
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Johnpa12 Stanley 04.02.09 16:33
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Krishnadoss 04.02.09 16:42
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro krishna reddy Minkuri 04.02.09 17:12
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 04.02.09 22:38
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro krishna reddy Minkuri 04.02.09 23:05
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro kp singh 09.02.09 14:15
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Suresh Gattu 10.02.09 12:47
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Moh Sh 10.02.09 14:34
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Anonym 10.02.09 15:56
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro YO 1 10.02.09 16:14
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Anonym 10.02.09 16:21
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Suresh Gattu 10.02.09 17:42
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Moh Sh 10.02.09 18:43
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Anonym 10.02.09 20:27
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Suresh Gattu 10.02.09 21:29
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Felix Khachatrian 16.02.09 18:59
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Guvenc Gulce 16.02.09 20:31
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Felix Khachatrian 17.02.09 11:30
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Nantha Manikam 19.02.09 17:11
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro arianna fehr 20.02.09 12:34
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Krishnadoss 20.02.09 14:34
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Asad Alam 25.02.09 21:20
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Krishnadoss 25.02.09 21:40
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro tulasi p 26.02.09 01:54
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro YO 1 26.02.09 12:16
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Krishnadoss 26.02.09 13:27
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Asad Alam 26.02.09 21:54
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Nantha Manikam 27.02.09 01:37
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro First Last 28.02.09 11:14
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro tulasi p 01.03.09 01:25
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro First Last 01.03.09 10:09
Conditions for NE Anand Munshi 04.03.09 15:11
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Krishnadoss 04.03.09 15:26
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Nantha Manikam 13.03.09 13:50
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro B S 13.03.09 15:39
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro vasudevan seshadhri 13.03.09 23:47
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 16.03.09 20:37
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro mukin muk 16.03.09 21:46
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Roopashri Rajasekhar 17.03.09 11:29
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro vasu dev 17.03.09 13:24
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 18.03.09 01:35
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Roger Federer 18.03.09 11:35
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Krishnadoss 18.03.09 13:28
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 19.03.09 00:23
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 21.03.09 01:55
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 21.03.09 14:30
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro A M 24.03.09 21:49
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 24.03.09 22:08
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro A M 24.03.09 22:43
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 24.03.09 23:01
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro A M 25.03.09 00:06
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 25.03.09 04:00
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Shankar 26.03.09 10:54
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 26.03.09 13:27
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro tuco duco 26.03.09 17:16
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 26.03.09 17:35
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro YO 1 26.03.09 18:52
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro tuco duco 26.03.09 20:13
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 27.03.09 17:25
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro tuco duco 27.03.09 17:44
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 27.03.09 17:59
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro vinto vin 28.03.09 12:36
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 28.03.09 12:59
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro tuco duco 28.03.09 13:26
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 28.03.09 17:24
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Shankar 29.03.09 12:16
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro vinto vin 07.04.09 23:44
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Roopashri Rajasekhar 08.04.09 11:47
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro vinto vin 08.04.09 12:41
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 09.04.09 00:00
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Shankar 09.04.09 15:24
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 09.04.09 16:49
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Zameer Mohammed 13.04.09 12:16
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro vasu dev 17.04.09 03:08
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Truster Truster 17.04.09 10:17
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Yogesh Dhundhel 17.04.09 11:32
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro rohit singh 17.04.09 12:17
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro YO 1 17.04.09 12:24
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Yogesh Dhundhel 17.04.09 12:37
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Rajesh Krishnadoss 17.04.09 15:35
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Truster Truster 18.04.09 11:08
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 21.04.09 04:54
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro tuco duco 23.04.09 14:47
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Roger Federer 23.04.09 15:28
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro tuco duco 23.04.09 15:53
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 24.04.09 00:07
NE under $19 AufenthG - EG? Mahesh Kumar 24.04.09 00:29
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro tuco duco 24.04.09 13:24
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro vinto vin 04.05.09 15:22
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Moh Sh 04.05.09 18:28
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 04.05.09 23:38
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro vinto vin 05.05.09 00:23
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Ram S 01.06.09 00:03
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 01.06.09 05:50
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Ram S 01.06.09 13:19
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 02.06.09 01:47
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Johnpa12 Stanley 07.06.09 01:14
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 07.06.09 12:51
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro vinto vin 17.06.09 10:57
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Johnpa12 Stanley 18.06.09 15:12
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 20.06.09 06:49
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Truster Truster 20.06.09 11:57
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 20.06.09 14:57
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 29.10.09 22:53
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Richtig . 31.10.09 23:14
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro srikar s 01.11.09 13:14
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 02.11.09 20:24
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 02.11.09 20:52
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Richtig . 02.11.09 20:54
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Jivan Talaash 02.11.09 20:59
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 02.11.09 22:32
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Jivan Talaash 03.11.09 00:14
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 03.11.09 01:00
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro R V 03.11.09 09:22
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 03.11.09 09:42
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro srikar s 03.11.09 13:23
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Jivan Talaash 04.11.09 01:13
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 04.11.09 11:31
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Jivan Talaash 05.11.09 10:07
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 05.11.09 10:20
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro vasu dev 27.11.09 20:41
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 27.11.09 20:56
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Imran Khan 21.04.10 20:56
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro usualsuspect b 16.09.10 17:28
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro john de bot 20.09.10 21:06
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro klenze17 holmenkollen 07.10.10 21:20
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro ram reddy 28.06.11 04:19
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Sudarsan Pattabiraman 28.06.11 23:21
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro check chen 29.07.11 00:43
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro NoBody 02.08.11 18:56
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro sikan 7878 07.08.11 02:46
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Vamsi Krishna 16.08.11 16:35
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro krishna murthy 11.04.12 17:25
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Punar Punar 11.04.12 18:24
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro krishna murthy 11.04.12 18:58
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro Punar Punar 12.04.12 14:53
Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro krishna murthy 23.04.12 13:31
Dear All,
What about the new law, if some one gets anual salary >63000 Euro can get NE?
How is it calculated, does it including urlaub and weinacht geld.

Thanks and regards-
ASM
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.01.07 14:02 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
"What about the new law, if some one gets anual salary >63000 Euro can get NE?"

There is no such law. It has been discussed some time ago among the German politicians, but it has not been a law, not even a law proposal. You will probably finish your 5 years and get NE anyway, before German politicians can decide on such a law.. ;)

Regards,

Lacrima
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.01.07 19:22 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
2. Permanent residence permit for highly qualified persons - §19 AufenthG

Scientists, university lecturers, specialists and leading managers with long professional experience, for example, will have the chance of getting the permanent residence permit immediately, if they do not need official support for integration.

The permanent residence permit is unlimited and includes the permission to work.

An example for someone who is highly qualified can be, that he/she earns the double of the amount which someone needs if he wants to get private insurance instead of the mandatory one.

This is around 95.000,- €

Good luck
Detlef
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.01.07 20:37 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Well, I thought he was asking regarding this issue:
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2214851,00.html?maca=en-rss-en-bus-1025-rdf
as he was mentioning a new law.

This 85 - 95K thing for NE has been around for some time.(I guess, it is in force since 1.1.2005)
But there was a political discussion recently to lower the salary limit to 63K to get an NE immediately.(See the link above) That political discussion led to nothing. That was my point in my previous post.

Regards,

Lacrima
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.01.07 22:27 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Detlef, a small correction: it is 85.500 € for 2007.

Proof.

The law for NE to the high skilled people is defined in AufenthG §19:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19

The minimum amount of annual gross income stated in this law is bound to Beitragsbemessungsgrenze (income limit) for health insurance:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsbemessungsgrenze

The law states that a scientist or high skilled person who is getting so much gross annual income that is double of this money can get NE from §19.

According to the table at Wikipedia, in 2007 the limit of annual gross income for health insurance is 42.750 €. To get NE wrt. AufenthG §19, you must earn an annual gross income of 85.500 €. In other words, your monthly gross salary must be min. 7.125 €.

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
14.01.07 00:56 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
I just wonder...is there someone who get 7000 / 8000 € bruto per month?
I mean from the ex GC's, and if there is, what kind of job it is?
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
14.01.07 01:18 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi again,

read this:

Achtung Verwechslungsgefahr!

Nicht verwechseln darf man die Versicherungspflichtgrenze und die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze. Seit 2003 sind sie von einander losgelöst zu betrachten.

Versicherungs-Pflichtgrenze Beitrags-Bemessungsgrenze
Mit der Versicherungspflichtgrenze gibt der Gesetzgeber vor, bis zu welcher Einkommens-Höhe brutto (derzeit 3.975,00 Euro monatlich / 47.700 Euro pro Jahr) ein Arbeitnehmer automatisch Mitglied in der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung (GKV) sein und bleiben muss.

Die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze legt fest, bis zu welchem Betrag vom Einkommen (derzeit 3.562,50 Euro monatlich / 42.750 Euro pro Jahr) Beiträge zur gesetzlichen Kranken- und Pflegeversicherung berechnet und abgeführt werden.

Die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze wurde zum 1. Januar 2006 von 42.300 auf 42.750 Euro angehoben und die Versicherungspflichtgrenze erhöhte sich von bislang 46.800 Euro auf 47.250 Euro.

Update 29.11.2006: Mittlerweile sind die voraussichtlichen Zahlen für die Versicherungspflichtgrenze 2007 bekannt gegeben geworden: 3.975,00 Euro im Monat bzw. 47.700 Euro im Jahr!

But at least... all depends ;-)

Have a nice weekend and good night
Detlef
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
14.01.07 11:24 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
"is there someone who get 7000 / 8000 € bruto per month?
I mean from the ex GC's, and if there is, what kind of job it is?"

@max

Usually experienced (SAP) Consultants and experienced Project Managers can earn that amount. If we think that, there are more that 10.000 (ex)-GClers, it is no surprise that some percentage of that people fall into this category.

Regards,

Lacrima
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
14.01.07 17:41 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi,

I must point out again, that the paragraph 3 of the law [1] crystal clearly states that required minimum gross income is strictly bound to the double of the income limit of gesetzliche Krankenversicherung (state health insurance), which gives us 85.500 € for 2007 [2]:

3. Spezialisten und leitende Angestellte mit besonderer Berufserfahrung, die ein Gehalt in Höhe von mindestens dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung erhalten.

max asks:
is there someone who get 7000 / 8000 € bruto per month?

The annual gross income of 85.500 € does not mean that the monthly salary must be 85.500 € / 12 = 7.125 €. If the Weihnachtsgeld (Xmas bonus), Urlaubsgeld (vacation bonus) and AT-Zulage (extra bonus) are included in gross income, then min. required monthly salary reduces down below 7.000 € (probably to 6.000 € level). On the contrary, due to recession in Germany companies tend to reduce bonuses overall, which leads requirement of salaries of higher than 7000 € for NE wrt. AufenthG §19 [1].

max, I am in the same opinion. I strongly belivee there are very very few foreigns who got their salaries in this level.

Lacrima answers:
Usually experienced (SAP) Consultants and experienced Project Managers can earn that amount.

There are very few foreigns in Germany who has NE wrt. AufenthG §19. In 2005 only 500-700 people got this type of NE [3]. This law thus does not have a wide audience.

Lacrima says:
If we think that, there are more that 10.000 (ex)-GClers, it is no surprise that some percentage of that people fall into this category.

No, the actual number of unique GCs is far below than 10.000, it is around 8000. Some people got new GC permissions after having lost 1st job, which are counted in the numbers [4].

For GClers: The most extensive academic research about us is [5].


Klenze17.

--
[1] AufenthG §19, http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19
[2] Beitragsbemessungsgrenze, http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsbemessungsgrenze
[3] Evaluierungsbericht zum Zuwanderungsgesetz, http://www.bmi.bund.de/Internet/Content/Common/Anlagen/Themen/Auslaender__Fluechtlinge__Asyl/DatenundFakten/Evaluierungsbericht__zum__Zuwanderungsgesetz,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Evaluierungsbericht_zum_Zuwanderungsgesetz.pdf
[4] Die Green Card für IT-Fachkräfte:
Bestandsaufnahme und Entwicklungsperspektive
arbeitsmarktbedingter Zuwanderung in Deutschland
, http://www.ub.uni-konstanz.de/kops/volltexte/2003/933/pdf/steinfatt.pdf, page 63.
[5] Greencard für Ausländische IT-Fachkräfte, http://www.kompetenznetze.de/Redaktion/Zentralredaktion/Literatur/medien/de/info__Greencard,property=pdf.pdf . This is the last academic research about Greencard. I am afraid there won't be any other. But there is a Turkish scientist now who is making her PhD dissertation on GCs (but for Turkish people, Lacrima knows her too, we both participated in this academic research).
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
21.08.07 06:36 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi shahisandeep,

1. if somebody earns more than 85,500 euros annually he/she can apply for a NE straightway.

Yes and it must be done ASAP, because next year it might be another value, as stated in the law.

2.Is bonus also considered to be a part of gehalt.

Yes, any single cent stated in the pay slip is considered. Bonus (AT-Zulage), Vermögenswirksame Leistung, even the company bonus paid for Arbeitsweg (the way between home and work). Requirement is all the money which is in the pay slip and taxed. Principally every single cent stated in the pay slips are taxed, so just calculate your pay slips. In some companies pay slips include cumulative sum of brutto income throughout the year, which eases the computation.

if anybody has already tried getting it , i would appreciate information.

Apart from rajeshspg, we don't know anyone here in these forums who got NE w.r.t. AufenthG $19.

This law item has been effective only for 700-900 people in Germany ( http://www.bmi.bund.de/Internet/Content/Common/Anlagen/Themen/Auslaender__Fluechtlinge__Asyl/DatenundFakten/Evaluierungsbericht__zum__Zuwanderungsgesetz,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Evaluierungsbericht_zum_Zuwanderungsgesetz.pdf ). Unfortunately none of them is a member of these forums.

Rajesh's case is special because he is not working in private companies, instead in academic institutions.

If you can get it, please share your experiences in these forums so that everyone can have an idea what is possible, what is not.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
23.08.07 13:44 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi,

I have requested for NE under this category, and beamter asked me to come back after 4 weeks. He wanted to check with his superior regarding this.

Best of luck with your application. Since it is written in the law you should get it.

Regards,
Rakhi
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.08.07 00:02 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
hi Rakhi,

I have requested for NE under this category, and beamter asked me to come back after 4 weeks. He wanted to check with his superior regarding this.

Best of luck with your application. Since it is written in the law you should get it.


There are a lot of requirements stated in the NE w.r.t AufenthG §19 ( http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19 ).

Rakhi, your application is very important for all foreigners in this forum, and it will be a leading case for this NE (except for Rajesh's case). Because that, may I ask you to write here with which qualifications you apply for this NE?

Patents? Publications? Management position?
Are you working in private company or state institution?

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.08.07 12:45 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Klenze,

I have applied under income basis with special professional experience. I am working as IT freelancer. If I have to be a manager to be considered under this category, I may not get it. It would be great if someone can translate that complete paragraph of §19 into english.

Regards,
Rakhi
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.08.07 13:14 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi,

you may find this website interesting:

http://www.zuwanderung.de/english/

http://www.zuwanderung.de/english/2_neues-gesetz-a-z/hochqualifizierte.html

I wish all of you a nice weekend!

Viele Grüße aus Berlin
Detlef :-)
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.08.07 13:18 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi,
I am working as a self dependent and have a import/export business and annual income 90,000 to 120,000 Euro.
can I apply for NE?without integration course!!
my status is I am Indian and married with German.

Please give your suggestion.

Kumar
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.08.07 15:52 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Detlef,

Thanks a lot for the information/links. The last statement of highly skilled worker definition says that "Highly qualified workers are typically executives or specialists in their field with a current annual salary in excess of €84,000".

So, if anyone who is specialist in their field and earns in excess of €84,000 should be eligible for NE. He need not be a scientist or manager. Anyway, I will wait for the first response from beamter regarding my case.

Regards,
Rakhi
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.08.07 16:18 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Rakhi,

So, if anyone who is specialist in their field and earns in excess of €84,000 should be eligible for NE. He need not be a scientist or manager.

This is true, but one small correction:

The annual brutto income stated in that text Detlef sent is outdated. In 2007 this has been 85.500 Euro. Please read my previous postings in this thread, in which I have given technical details how this amount is calculated.

This money is dependent upon tax calculations by German government and is adjusted on a year basis. That means, next year it can be 86.000 Euro. Since the inflation in developed countries like Germany is small, we do not expect big jumps in this amount.

Wow, a lot of freelancers here! Do you guys (Rakhi, shahisandeep) have IT background? Did you work in Germany for a while first? I don't expect too personal information a small historical background of yourself would be helpful for everyone here in the forums to get this kind of NE!

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.08.07 16:43 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Klenze,

Yes, I saw your earlier post regarding the required income for this year.

Well, I came here on GC in 2003. I got a freelance contract last year and changed my visa to restricted freelance visa(This was taken care by my agency). Recently I came to know about this NE as per §19 from this forum.Thanks a lot to the people sharing valuable information on this platform. I hope the beamter gives a positive response.

Regards,
Rakhi
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
27.08.07 12:48 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Guys,

Bad news is that freelancers are not eligible under $19. So, I will not be getting NE. Anyway thanks a lot for all the help by providing useful information.

Regards,
Rakhi
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
27.08.07 13:21 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi,
I am working as a selfdependent and have a import/export business and annual income 90,000 to 120,000 Euro.
can I get NE?without integration course!!
my status is I am Indian and married with German.

Please give your suggestion.

Kumar
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
28.08.07 21:03 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
The last changes in several laws are here:
http://www.lexisnexis.de/aktuelles/122701?or=14&ur=0&tt=gesetzgebung
(see the PDF link)
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
29.08.07 16:35 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
I got the visa under §19 on the salary basis. i am a telecom engineer.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
29.08.07 23:08 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello Shahisandeep,

Are you salaried employ or freelancer?

Regards,
Rakhi
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
30.08.07 16:33 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello @havehope

i have 2 questions for you.

1. is your salary is >63000 including bonus and all?

2. will they ask about experience (how many years do you have exp in Germany).

thank you
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
30.08.07 16:40 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Salary has to be more than (today its around 87000 Euros ).
you need to show last 3 months salary or a proof or a confirmantion from your compnay that you shall be getting this salayr by end of this year. or proof of last year brutto is also ok. In my case i could show them my last year brutto on the lohnstuer card and also my company gave me the bescheinung.

They need 4-6 weeks for the police check up and you get the NE. No questions asked about langiage or so,
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
05.10.08 16:34 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
havehope wrote:

Salary has to be more than (today its around 87000 Euros ).
you need to show last 3 months salary or a proof or a confirmantion from your compnay that you shall be getting this salayr by end of this year. or proof of last year brutto is also ok. In my case i could show them my last year brutto on the lohnstuer card and also my company gave me the bescheinung.

They need 4-6 weeks for the police check up and you get the NE. No questions asked about langiage or so,


Hi Havehope, you wrote that you got NE $19.

- Did you come to Germany with Greencard?
- Did you get "Erwerbstätigkeit gestattet" in between, before you got this NE?

I think you are a GCler because you said you are a telecom engineer.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
14.11.08 23:25 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Yesterday the parliamented changed the law. Now the minimum salary reduced to 63.000 Euro (correctly, 63.600 Euro for 2008, 64,800 for 2009).
http://www.bundestag.de/parlament/plenargeschehen/to/187.html#TOP27

This is the best law it could come ever. There is a big world crisis. The foreigners in Germany had the chance that the German elections are in 2009. Otherwise such kind of law would have never come.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
15.11.08 18:05 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Thanks klenze17.
Indeed good news if it works.

Has this rule(NE for 63000€) been already implemented ?

I need to renew my Aufenthaltstitel. So can I try NE as my Brutt is around 64000€ ?

Do you know what are the documents that may be required to get this ?

Your reply is very much helpful for many boarders.

Thanks,
Truster
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
15.11.08 18:23 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Has this rule(NE for 63000€) been already implemented ?

Not yet. All the technical things of the law change has been done. Also, Bundestag (parliament) approved the law on 13.11.2008.

Now Bundesrat must approve it, councellor Angela Merkel and minister president Horst Köhler must sign the change. The law change will be published in Bundesgesetzblatt (official announcement paper from state) that the law becomes effetive.

Only after all these, the law will be effective in 01.01.2009.

I need to renew my Aufenthaltstitel. So can I try NE as my Brutt is around 64000€ ?

Yes, but only after the law becomes effective. It is after 01.01.2009. Before that, you cannot do anything.

Do you know what are the documents that may be required to get this ?

By the definition of this law, the local authorities will ask you to prove that you have this salary. I think the last 3 slips of previous year must be OK, but in general I think a prinout for your complete year from Finanzamt might be asked. They must see that you get this money.

Also, the law does not give everyone who has this salary or more. Your job specification must match "high-qualification". It is not stated in law explicitly, but it is mostly IT sector, electronics, computer and mechanical engineering.

Ex-Greencardlers would match. But we have no leading case for this, because we must wait until 01.01.2009 when first applications run.

havehope, a member in this forum was a telecom engineer and he has got his NE w.r.t. $19 but with 84.000 euro salary requirement. He is the only case we know. rajeshspg is an academician who has got NE $19 but as a scientist.

Technically all the GCs who still do not have NE must be able to get this NE, as long as they satisfy this salary requirement.

To whom who is interested: There is Verordnung for this law change: http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_090/nn_8694/SharedDocs/Drucksachen/2008/0801-900/840-08,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/840-08.pdf .

So everything is ready for this law change. Just wait until January.

In the coming day we will hear more about this in press. Just wait.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
16.11.08 04:48 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Yesterday the Bundesrat has approved the law change.
http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_099/SharedDocs/Drucksachen/2008/0801-900/861-08,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/861-08.pdf

Only the signatures of Councellor Angela Merkel and minister president Horst Köhler required for the law change. Bundesgesetzblatt will publish the law.

I can say that now 84K requirement to get NE for Hochqualifizierte has been history. With this law change the minimum annual gross salary must be 63.600 Euro (2008), 64.800 Euro (2009) to get the NE.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
29.11.08 00:03 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Unfortunately the Bundesrat refused the current law change, because they find the minimum salary 63600 still too much. They want to reduce it to 53.400 Euro. Therefore they asked the additional commission to review the law change.

Damned, the 1 month left until the law becomes effective and this unclear situation makes the situation of a lot of foreign workers in Germany very bad and keep us with no perspective!! The world crisis is hitting everywhere in the world and German companies started to lay off people everywhere. Playing with the law changes just before 01.01.2009 in this situation makes the situation of the law very unclear. It can be completely void because these kind of decisions for foreigns can go even ineffective. In this crisis a lot of companies fire people and they might object to these kind of laws. The only chance we have is the Elections in 2009.

Damned!! Very bad, to be honest... Bundesrat doesn't see the current economic and market situation...

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
29.11.08 00:06 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_090/SharedDocs/TO/851/erl/4,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/4.pdf

and

http://www.pressrelations.de/new/standard/result_main.cfm?pfach=1&n_firmanr_=110858&sektor=pm&detail=1&r=348478&sid=&aktion=jour_pm&quelle=0
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
01.12.08 20:52 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Announcement from Bundesrat:
http://www.bundestag.de/dasparlament/2008/49/innenpolitik/22908287.html

Bundesrat insists on reducing the recently change minimum gross annual salary of 63.600 Euro down to 53.400 Euro. The government declared before this salary too low to give unlimited residence permit.

Bundesrat and the government are still discussing on this. It is just 1 month left to 1st of January, when the law should be effective. Last Sunday there was a comment in Frankfurter Allgemeine that the law in these conditions would not be effective in 1st of January because still continuing discussions.

I am afraid it will go to another vote in the Bundestag. No matter what happens, I wish that the salary of 86.400 Euro in the law would be decreased to a reasonable level.

There are several statistical publications from the state that there were very, very few foreigners who took NE wrt AuthenhG $19.

In this crisis I think 53.400 is reasonable. But after the downturn this limit must be increased again.

30 days left to 1st of January and we are still waiting for a stable status!

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
02.12.08 15:18 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi everybody:

Just a question about this subject...it seems to me that even if the law changes and reduces the minimum yearly salary, those who are already in DE won't be able to apply for NE because the §19 states that this apply to foreigners arriving to DE...
I will be given a rise in salary that will push me above the limit of >63000 but I don't think I'll be able to apply since I've been here already for several years...can someone comment on this?

may the peace be in your soul

Ary
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
02.12.08 15:36 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
This is not true.

There are people, like rajeshspg and havehope, who got NE $19, after they have come to DE. If they had given that only to the people who are arriving in DE, that would have been too ineffective, because there are very few people who have come to Germany in the recent years.

This law is effective for everyone who can prove in written form (contract or finance authorities) that he or she can earn 63.600 Euro (or 53.400 Euro if they change it).

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
02.12.08 19:08 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
I want to make one point clearer:

Not all the people whose salary is higher 63.600 will have right to get this permit.

Only the people under the description "hochqualifizierte auslaendische Fachkraefte". Ex-Greencard'ler match this description. All computer, electrical, mechanical engineers and IT-specialists.

Not everyone.

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
08.12.08 03:46 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Vermittlungsausschuss (advisory committee) will hold a meeting on 17th of December to discuss the Bundesrat's objection on the minimum gross annual income for NE $19:
http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_099/nn_6898/DE/presse/pm/2008/189-2008.html?__nnn=true

Bundesrat wants to reduce the salary to 53K. Government wanted 63K.

The committee members are 50% from Bundesrat and 50% from Bundestag (parliament). If the committee decision is the same as Bundesrat, the government must reformulate the law and it must be voted in Bundestag again.

On the one hand, reducing the salary is good but on the other hand the process will take so long that it will not be effective on 01.01.2009, stated by the law. This will be then very close to the Elections in June 2009, and might be void...

A lot of qualified people in Germany are waiting for a stable status of this law. The crisis is hitting everywhere in Europe, people are getting jobless. All state bodies (Bundesrat, Bundestag, government and this committee) must be very fast. If this law will not be effective as soon as possible, in 2009 a lot of us will be jobless!

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
17.12.08 23:59 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Today the Vermittlungsausschuss (commission in the parliament) has got a meeting and still not decided what to do with the minimal salary to give the unlimited work/residence permit to the qualified foreigners. They did not decide yet whether 63K or 53K must be the minimum annual gross income to give the high-qualified foreigners unlimited work/residence permit.

However the Vermittlungsauschuss has decided to reduce the minimum amount of money to be invested by the freelancer to found a company, to give an unlimited residence permit. They reduced this amount from 500.000 Euro to 250.000 Euro.

Vermittlungsausschuss will held another meeting on 19.12.2008 to discuss the minimum salary for unlimited residence permit.

In this global crisis I am sure nobody has interest on 250.000 Euro/500.000 Euro stuff. Instead, if you concentrate on unlimited permit of the people, they even can be then freelancer with no money restriction.

Germany is very slow... Foreign investments are overseen.. Every second, minute is a loss for Germany.

2009 will be a very bad year. It still surprises me that still nobody has commented on this. A lot of forum members will be jobless in 2009.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
18.12.08 10:00 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
"2009 will be a very bad year. It still surprises me that still nobody has commented on this. A lot of forum members will be jobless in 2009.
"
Hi Klenze17 - Happy new year 2009 to you too! ;)
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
18.12.08 11:48 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@klenze

I dont understand why you are so fixed up on this particular part of the legislation. Forget about it, concentrate on your survival. When are you eligible for normal NE? I think you should already have BE.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
18.12.08 13:55 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
raj asks:

I dont understand why you are so fixed up on this particular part of the legislation. Forget about it, concentrate on your survival. When are you eligible for normal NE? I think you should already have BE.

Raj, I don't know whether you have NE or not, but this law change is a very good improvement for the foreign people, because it will give the NE immediatetly. This is the best law since Greencard. Therefore it is especially important for all of us.

I am a GCler who came to Germany end of December 2004 and I still have no NE, because only 4 years passed. The crisis is growing exponentially in Europe and I need this law because I will get NE with this law without 5 year requirement. There are a lot of people in this situation.

The law will be effective on 1st of January, 10 days left and still not clarified. I need this law so that I can inform my HR, because in Germany all companies will fire the foreign people who do not have unlimited permit in this crisis. My company is firing a lot of people now.

There were several similar discussions about GC w.r.t. ZuwG at Trust7. I think you are GCler, therefore I think you don't see this point. You can never understand what I am experiencing here. I am trying here to share a tough stuff which is not easy to find in the press. So, please be patient and think twice when you send a post.

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
18.12.08 17:51 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
<i>The law will be effective on 1st of January, 10 days left and still not clarified. I need this law so that I can inform my HR, because in Germany all companies will fire the foreign people who do not have unlimited permit in this crisis. My company is firing a lot of people now.</i>

Hi,
I don't think that is a fair statement you put there.
As long as you have unlimited contract you can get your visa extension..
and to fire people they mostly look at how long an employee is with the company apart from other performance reasons.

If you think you can be fired(hope not) based on not having an unlimited visa, thats kind of ridiculous.

After all the we can only wait for the law emoticon
cheers
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
18.12.08 18:55 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
I wrote:

The law will be effective on 1st of January, 10 days left and still not clarified. I need this law so that I can inform my HR, because in Germany all companies will fire the foreign people who do not have unlimited permit in this crisis. My company is firing a lot of people now.

rajendrak wrote:

I don't think that is a fair statement you put there.
As long as you have unlimited contract you can get your visa extension.. and to fire people they mostly look at how long an employee is with the company apart from other performance reasons.


What is not fair? It does not matter whether you have an unlimited contract or not. If there is world crisis and if people must be fired, if the company wants to fire people, or if there is Sozialplan, then nobody cares what you have. You will be just fired.

If you think you can be fired(hope not) based on not having an unlimited visa, thats kind of ridiculous.

You might find ridiculuous but I see around in the big companies the foreigners are fired first, no matter if they have unlimited contract or not, no matter if they have unlimited residence permit or not.

Now in this case, if you don't have unlimited residence permit, you must go to Arbeitsamt, which is really annoying. And you are not eligible to stay in Germany forever. In this crisis it is extremely difficult to find a job because next year a lot of people will jobless.

After all the we can only wait for the law cheers.

Yes, it has been neverending story.. Only 10 days left before the law must be effective and still the things are not clear.

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.12.08 12:04 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Law PASSED! Bundesrat approved the law finally:

http://www.bundestag.de/aktuell/archiv/2008/23098237_kw51_rueckblick/index.html

Der Bundestag stimmte den Einigungsvorschlägen des Vermittlungsausschusses zum Arbeitsmigrationssteuerungsgesetz (16/11390), zum BKA-Gesetz (16/11391) und zum Familienleistungsgesetz mit der damit verbundenen Erhöhung des Kindergeldes (16/11392) zu. Am 19. Dezember gab auch der Bundesrat\ seine Zustimmung, die er diesen Gesetzen zunächst verweigert hatte.

16/11390 is the decision of the commission for the law which regulates the minimum salary for NE $19.

84K for NE $19 has been now officially history!

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.12.08 12:21 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Great News indeed!!! It couldn't have come on a better time for me, having spent almost 2 hrs this morning to rescue my laptop from the evil clutches of Antivirus 360 (a real pain in ass).

Thanks a lot Klenze17 for keeping us updated with this good info.

Cheers.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.12.08 12:58 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Great News indeed!!! It couldn't have come on a better time for me, having spent almost 2 hrs this morning to rescue my laptop from the evil clutches of Antivirus 360 (a real pain in ass).

Yes, it is really great news!! I hope we get NE immediatiely, without waiting for regular NE time. In this crisis nobody guarantees work. NE is the only survival now in Germany. And this law will give NE immediately.

Since the change is a very special part of the law, I am pretty sure that it will be very problematic with officials at local authorities (Ausländerbehörde Beamten). They will resist mostly, I am pretty sure. Because in this crisis a lot of foreigners will be jobless and therefore they might not correctly process our cases, among so many jobless foreigners in 2009.

Therefore I strongly advise to talk with a lawyer. I will soon print all the law changes to use a print-copy to both the Ausländebehörde and the lawyer.

Thanks a lot Klenze17 for keeping us updated with this good info.

This stuff is extremely difficult to find in the press because almost no press comment on this law. The reason seems to be that even there are very few foreigners in Germany who get this 63K. Very few news published in the press recently.

Therefore I had to follow decisions, commissions at the parliament, every day.

There is no leading case for this law change! I would propose to wait until first week of January.

I ask all Trust7 members who might get NE wrt 63.600 Euro to share their experiences. We need a leading case for this, what to do next.

We might need professional support this. Detlef, is there any activity on your side for this?


Very good New Year gift!!!!!

Klenze17
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.12.08 14:16 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Great news just before holiday season.

@Klenze17,

Does this change effects for the annual salary >63k or >53k?

Thanks,

Suresh
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.12.08 14:33 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Suresh asks:

Does this change effects for the annual salary >63k or >53k?

It will be 63K after 01.01.2009. Bundesrat's proposal to reduce 53K was not approved. Only people having an annual salary of higher than 63K will be granted to this NE.

And only "high-qualified people". Not everyone. For example, freelancers cannot get it. I heard people in finance sectors cannot get it. Only people having electronics/computer/mechanical maybe chemical engineering and Ex-Greencard'lers will get this NE.

But we need a leading case for this.

For whom it may concern:

This law item will be changed:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19

law change is here:
http://www.bmi.bund.de/Internet/Content/Common/Anlagen/Gesetze/Entwurf__Arbeitsmigrationsgesetz,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Entwurf_Arbeitsmigrationsgesetz.pdf

Changed sentence:
In § 19 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 werden die Wörter „dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze
der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung“ durch die Wörter „der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze
der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung“ ersetzt.


This is 63.600 Euro for 2008, 64.800 for 2009. Therefore we must apply for this as soon as possible.

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.12.08 14:46 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi,

first of all I want to thank you, Klenze17, for providing us this very important information!!!!

I read my newspaper every day, especially the political and economy parts, but I did not read one word about this!

I also agree with you about your view of the upcoming problems.

Regarding the new possibilities I will talk to Katja from VPMK about a special offer for trust7 members, to get NE easy :-)

Thanks again
Detlef
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.12.08 16:19 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.

This is 63.600 Euro for 2008, 64.800 for 2009. Therefore we must apply for this as soon as possible.


Are you trying to say that one can use the limit 63.600 instead of 64.800 when he manages to apply before 1.1.2009 ?

If it is 64.800 for 2009 then that will be the valid number for the law which will become effective after 1.1.2009. I don't think that you can apply now by referencing a law which didn't become effective yet. So the number 63.600 shouldn't be considered in the context of this law, as it is only for 2008.

Regards,

Lacrima
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.12.08 16:34 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
I wrote:

This is 63.600 Euro for 2008, 64.800 for 2009. Therefore we must apply for this as soon as possible.

Lacrima asked:

Are you trying to say that one can use the limit 63.600 instead of 64.800 when he manages to apply before 1.1.2009 ?

If it is 64.800 for 2009 then that will be the valid number for the law which will become effective after 1.1.2009. I don't think that you can apply now by referencing a law which didn't become effective yet. So the number 63.600 shouldn't be considered in the context of this law, as it is only for 2008.


Thanks for pointing this, Lacrima. This is a very important point that needs to be clarified.

Technically speaking, since the law becomes effective on 01.01.2009, applications can be run only in 2009. So principially 64.800 Euro for 2009 can be taken as reference.

However when someone applies, he or she must prove that he got this salary. This can be done through confirmation from the finance institutions like Finanzamt. They can however give only a printout of 2008, not 2009, because 2009 data has not been collected for the worker.

So according my to the logic above, 2008 measurements must be taken as reference NE$19 applications in 2009. In other words, for applications in 2009, 63.600 Euro for 2008 must be considered.

I might be wrong, but my logic says this is reasonable. I think Detlef or another professional person can help us more.

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
21.12.08 00:22 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Trust7 forum members,

as I have promised to give technical data about this subject, I am writing this post. I am writing this posting which is extremely important for all of us. Please take a printout of this and download all the documents I give its links, because these data are not anywhere in the world, nor any press news comments on this.

1. As you know from my earlier postings in this thread, German state has officially updated the law w.r.t. minimum annual gross income required to get NE (Niederlassungserlaubnis, unlimited residence/work permit) stated in AufenthG §19:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19

2. German government made a program to improve the rights of foreigns in Germany:
http://www.bmas.de/coremedia/generator/26948/property=pdf/2008__07__16__aktionsprogramm__fachkraefte.pdf

3. In this program, they have proposed to reduce minimum annual gross income required for AufenthG §19.2.3. In this law sentence it says:

Spezialisten und leitende Angestellte mit besonderer Berufserfahrung, die ein Gehalt in Höhe von mindestens dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung erhalten.

4. "der Doppelte der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung" is 2x 43.200 Euro = 86.400 Euro (2008) and 2x 44.100 Euro = 88.200 Euro (2009):

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsbemessungsgrenze#Gesetzliche_Kranken-_und_Pflegeversicherung

5. Goverment has made a law proposal (Gesetzentwurf) to change the part I wrote in (4): http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/16/102/1610288.pdf

In this proposal they say in page 5, right column:

In § 19 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 werden die Wörter „dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung“ durch die Wörter „der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung“ ersetzt.

6. "die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung" is 63.600 Euro (2008), 64.800 Euro (2009):

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsbemessungsgrenze#Gesetzliche_Rentenversicherung

7. Bundesrat said the government must reduce the salary down to 53.400 Euro, but government refused it:
http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/16/107/1610722.pdf

8. BeschV (Beschäftigungsverordnung) from Federal Ministry of Labour and Social Affairs (Bundesministerium für Arbeit und Soziales): http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/brd/2008/0840-08.pdf

9. Beschlussempfehlung von Innenausschuss (parliament commission report):

http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/16/109/1610914.pdf
This document is the proof that parliament has passed the law

10. Bundesrat refused 63.600 Euro:
http://www.bundestag.de/dasparlament/2008/49/innenpolitik/22908287.html

They have proposed 53.400 Euro:
http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/16/111/1611166.pdf

11. Vermittlungsauschuss (advisory committe) has concluded not to reduce 63.600 Euro:
http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_099/nn_8538/DE/presse/pm/2008/192-2008.html?__nnn=true

12. Bundesrat then approved the law:
http://www.bundesrat.de/cln_099/nn_8690/DE/parlamentsmaterial/to-plenum/853-sitzung/to-node.html?__nnn=true
TOP 76:
Gesetzeskategorie:
Zustimmungsbedürftiges Gesetz

Beschlusstenor:
Zustimmung

Bemerkungen:
Die Zuleitung an den Bundesrat ist für den 18. Dezember 2008 vorgesehen.

With item 12, it is officially proven that the law is PASSED.

13. Apart from all these, all local authorities for aliens (Ausländerhörde) get "Anwendungshinweis des BMIs" (recommendation of Federal Ministry of the Interior to the local authorities) document, that how they should intepret the law. This document is actually not open to the public, but by chance I have found it on internet:
http://www.inneres.bremen.de/sixcms/media.php/13/e08-07-02-19-Hochqualifizierte2.pdf

There it says

Bei dem Personenkreis nach Nummer 3 ist die Annahme der „Hochqualifikation“ durch ihre Berufserfahrung und berufliche Stellung gerechtfertigt. Um eine missbräuchliche Anwendung und Auslegung zu verhindern, wird zusätzlich eine Mindestgehaltsgrenze in der Höhe des Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung gefordert, die regelmäßig ein Indiz für die herausragende berufliche Stellung und Fähigkeit darstellt. Die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze wird jährlich zum Ende des Kalenderjahres an die allgemeine Entwicklung angepasst. Sie findet sich in der Verordnung über maßgebende Rechengrößen der Sozialversicherung, die im Bundesgesetzblatt Teil I veröffentlicht wird.

Here it says that the salary is a measurement for "high qualification". There is no citation on qualification type, ie. whether you must be an engineer or not.

13. There is no detailed press news for all the stuff above. This law is extremely important for the foreigns and but no press information exist. The list above is the only one that can give you an idea.

According to the data above, anyone must get NE AufenthG §19, after 01.01.2009, as soon as you can prove that you get minimum 63.600 Euro (2008) or 64.800 Euro (2009), immediately. If not, a lawyer, who is expert in foreign law, must win any court case according to the data above.

In 2009 a lot of foreigns will be jobless. It will be then extremely difficult to get this NE because a lof jobless foreigns will occupy Ausländerbehörde. Therefore take a copy of all documents above!

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
02.01.09 01:32 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
The law change has been documented in Official Journal of the State, with "BGBl. I S. 2846":

http://www.bgblportal.de/BGBL/bgbl1f/bgbl108s2846.pdf

The PDF document can be accessed from http://frei.bundesgesetzblatt.de/index.php?teil=I&jahr=2008&nr=63 .

With this document, the law is effective as of 01.01.2009, i.e. 84K has been history.

I wish that there would be no problems about this law in practice, but I strongly believe that the alien offices will have a lot of problems to give this permit to the people who need it, because it will be difficult to keep track of the processes for these permits among the foreigns who will be jobless and occupy the offices in 2009.

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
02.01.09 16:17 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Thanks Klenze17 for the update.

Few days ago, I have received approval from Landratsamt which says ''zur Beschäftigung ohne Beschränkung für Sie zugestimmt''.
Does this mean BE ? We are planning to give our Passports middle of this month for necessary stamping.

But with the new NE rules prevailing, do you suggest me to take BE or NE ? Some pointers would be helpful.

Thanks,
Truster
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
03.01.09 12:03 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Truster asks:
But with the new NE rules prevailing, do you suggest me to take BE or NE ? Some pointers would be helpful.

Truster, there are tons of posts in this web site, which answer all of your questions. All of us have spent a lot of time to write all these threads/messages. Please don't be lazy, now it's your turn to spend time to get the answers. Also, please read the complete thread of this post.

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
09.01.09 15:51 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi,

Thanks Klenze for the valuable info, according to the information provided above.

Today i received letter from landratsamt, with the following

Jahresbruttogehalt i.H.v. mindestens dem DOPPELTEN der Beitragsbemssungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Rentenversicherung.
Diese Grenze bemisst sich für 2009 auf einem Gehalt von mindestens 64.800,- Euro. Also müssten Sie uns einen Jahresverdienst i.H.d. Doppelten, also i.H.v. 129.600,- Euro nachweisen. (§ 19 Abs. 2 Nr.3 AufenthG)

does this mean i should have 129600 Euros as my annual salary ?

Krishna
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
09.01.09 16:41 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@krishna

They are wrong

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19

(2) Hoch qualifiziert nach Absatz 1 sind insbesondere

1.Wissenschaftler mit besonderen fachlichen Kenntnissen,
2.Lehrpersonen in herausgehobener Funktion oder wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiter in herausgehobener Funktion oder
3.Spezialisten und leitende Angestellte mit besonderer Berufserfahrung, die ein Gehalt in Höhe von mindestens der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der allgemeinen Rentenversicherung erhalten.

It only says "mindestens" and not "doppelte". So ask them if they dont have it wrong.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
09.01.09 17:18 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@krishna
they mixed up the lines.
Previously they said before correction..
sth like doppelte....krankenversicherung and after correction its
mindestens...gesetzliche..rentenversicehrung.

So the lines accordign to your letter says doppelte rentenversicherung..
theres some confusion on their part I guess toi interpret the latest and the previous ones.

cheers
emoticon
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
09.01.09 20:58 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Krishna!

yes, as the other members stated, the word "doppelte" is absolutely wrong.

Your case confirms my assumption that this law will be misunderstood or misinterpreted by the officials. We will see similar cases in the following days. Almost no official knows this law. Almost no one in Germany has got this permission. They just don't know and misinterpret the law. Anwendunghinweis des BMI (explanations from Ministry of Interior to the officials) is needed so that they can correctly interpret the law. This document will be distributed to all officials in Germany and might take 1-2 months maybe. Until then we will see such kind of funny things.

Krishna, please post here what kind of things you need to do for this (necessary documents etc). It seems that you have done a lof things about it. What did you do to get that letter from Landratsamt? What was the procedure? What documents are needed? Any single information is vital for us. Plase help!

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
12.01.09 18:07 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi all,

I have finally applied for this permit. Let me share the experiences at Ausländerbehörde. I have decided not to take a lawyer but to use the "usual way" for the application. For this, I have applied for this permit at my Ausländerbehörde at Bezirksamt in Hamburg. I have told the official there that I am applying for Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte, also told him about the change in the law.

As I expected, he did not know the change and first he told me that I have prove the salary according to the old law (86.4000 Euro). Then I told him that the law has been changed and shown him the copy of the change in the law (63.600 Euro). Also to prove I have shown him all the salary slips for whole 2007 (12 salary slips) and 2008 (12 salary slips). I have also shown him that my grade (Gehaltsgruppe) is one of the highest levels in Germany. Finally I could convince the official.

Then the official has taken all my documents, gone to his manager and he talked with his manager for 30 minutes. He came back and told me that he copied all the documents I shown him. He said he will send them to Arbeitsamt (Bundesagentur für Arbeit) and ask for their approval, because according to the law Bundesagentur für Arbeit must approve my application (Zustimmung). He said it will take ca. 2 weeks of time. He asked me to come 2 weeks later to him. Arbeitsamt will talk with my HR in the company to get more information about me, to approve my application.

Additionally he asked me that whether I have shown extraordinary performance at work. That means he wanted to know whether I have got some prize or similar. I will show him the bonus/prizes I have got, next time when I am there.

I think as soon as Arbeitsamt approves my application, then it is done.

I think it is very difficult to drive this application progress in Germany because almost no official is familiar with that.

Therefore I strongly advice to all who apply for this special permit to show the officials
- salary slips for 2008 (all of them, 12 months)
- Gehaltsgruppe (which grade you are)
- job contract

I want to point that Greencard IT-ArGV document has helped me a lot. That means, all GClers who still do not have NE but who have min. 63.600 of gross annual salary have right to get this permit.

It is so difficult to convince the officials. Technically speaking I am eligible for this but it is so much challenge to tell this to the officials.

Let's wait for 2 weeks.. After that we will see.

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
12.01.09 18:47 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@klenze

Good luck with your process :-)
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.01.09 13:11 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@ Klenze17,

All the very best. I am also waiting for the outcome with this new law. Your info was really useful.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.01.09 13:49 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
sgattu writes:
I am also waiting for the outcome with this new law.

Hi sgattu, good luck with that. In which state are you? What did you until now? Are you in wait process, in the same way as I am? I am waiting now for the approval of Arbeitsamt.

May I ask all friends here in the forum to write down and share what you had experienced. Thanks in advance.

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.01.09 14:18 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
hi,

Today i have applied, went smooth, as my Company HR had already talked to the Landratsamt (in Bayern), and they know about this change. I have submitted my application, along with the following documents
1) Letter from Company (my salary details)
2) My Flat details(sign from homeowner)
3) Letter from Medical Insurance

They are gonna call me once the visa is ready (2 to 3 weeks).

Krishna
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.01.09 14:46 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Krishna writes:
Today i have applied, went smooth, as my Company HR had already talked to the Landratsamt (in Bayern), and they know about this change. I have submitted my application, along with the following documents
1) Letter from Company (my salary details)
2) My Flat details(sign from homeowner)
3) Letter from Medical Insurance

They are gonna call me once the visa is ready (2 to 3 weeks).


As you see my friends, applications run differently among the people and states. Everything is quite different emoticon

Krishna, I think you started the process through the company. Couldn't you do that on your own, directly at KVR? You said above that you got letter from company for your salary details. Why didn't you show salary slips? Isn't it the same?

They even didn't ask me flat details or letter from medical insurance. I have shown salary slips and it was sufficient.

Interesting emoticon

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.01.09 16:52 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Klenez,

Now its time for my Visa extension, so i called up landratsamt to find some info on this new law, they sent me the required documents and salary requirement(which i put here two days ago). I informed about this mistake to my HR and the information about the law change, then they called to Landratsamt, Landratsamt confirmed that its their mistake, and asked me to submit the application with the said documents. Even though they asked last three months payslips, they need a letter from my company for confirmation.

I will let u know about the outcome in coming days.

Krishna
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.01.09 21:16 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@Klenze17,

I am in BW. No, I didn't yet apply for the visa under this rule. I will probably apply next month.

Regards,

Suresh
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
14.01.09 11:44 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Krishna,

You said you got a letter a letter from your HR. Could you please let us know what needs to be mentioned in the letter ? Is it only Salary or any zeugnisse required ?

Even I am preparing to apply for NE.

Truster
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
15.01.09 12:03 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Letter says since when i am working and what is my current salary. nothing else was mentioned.

Krishna
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
15.01.09 23:27 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Landratsamt in Bavaria asks for confirmation from your company == Bundesagentur für Arbeit in Hamburg asks for confirmation from my company.

It is the same. They check with that, whether your salary slips are real or not.. You could show them just a paper you prepared in a computer...

Except for salary slips 2007 and 2008, IT-ArGV (my Greencard), job contract nothing else required. At least now. I am in the wait status for 2 weeks...

Please keep on updating your status.

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
22.01.09 19:25 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
I have a question regarding this.

Do somebody needs to have this salary 63600 Per year for a certain period in past to apply for NE ?

i.e. I dont have this salary now, but if i get a job offer with this salary would i be able to get NE right away or i must wait for some months to get salary to show the ABH some salary slips with this salary?

Many Thans,
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
22.01.09 19:53 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
sensitive007 asks:
Do somebody needs to have this salary 63600 Per year for a certain period in past to apply for NE ?

Yes. Didn't you read the emails we have written? I have written in one my previous posts that I have shown all 12x 2007 and all 12x 2008 salary slips to the official. Could you please read the complete thread again?

i.e. I dont have this salary now, but if i get a job offer with this salary would i be able to get NE right away or i must wait for some months to get salary to show the ABH some salary slips with this salary?

Yes, you would get the NE right away. This is another option, other than the one I mentioned above. The new law change is valid both for the people who is working and earning that money and, and the people who will have a contract for 63K minimum. Your case is the 2nd one. My case is 1st one. You must show your contract to the alien office. They will ask the Arbeitsamt to approve because it is in the law that they have to approve it.

Arbeitsamt will ask your company whether your salary slips or job contract are true or not. There is no other mechanism how to check you really get that.

It is sometimes difficult to convince the officials so be prepared for that.

Klenze17.
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
30.01.09 15:32 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello,
I am new on this forum but have been reading the posts over here for some time.

I have come to know of two cases of my friends who applied in Bayern. They have got letter from Authorities asking them for their place on the Organisation chart, what siginificance they have in company when it comes to decision making, hiring people etc.
Though they meet the salary requirement for NE for Hochqualifiziert. (NEH)

1. Are such things mentioned in the Law?
2. Is there anybody who has been successful in getting NEH with the latest changes of the law.



br
trustuser
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
31.01.09 01:25 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Dear All,

I m a new member in trust7. I have recently shifted to Germany with an annual salary of 67K. I have only 1 salary slip available.Am i eligible to apply for NE rightaway or Should i wait for 1 year or atleast 3 months to get this NE to show that the salary is more than 64K.

I m in stuttgart and if anyone has experience in Stuttgart Auslanderbehörde regarding the same, please share your experiences.

I have a clarification in general, In case if someone loses his job or goes for a salary less than 64K after getting NE, will the NE get cancelled or converted to normal resident permit?

PRL
0 (0 Stimmen)

Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
31.01.09 14:32 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
trustuser said:
I have come to know of two cases of my friends who applied in Bayern. They have got letter from Authorities asking them for their place on the Organisation chart, what siginificance they have in company when it comes to decision making, hiring people etc.
Though they meet the salary requirement for NE for Hochqualifiziert. (NEH)



1. Are such things mentioned in the Law?


No. Decision making, hiring people is not required. Didn't you read my posts? Don't be lazy and please read my posts again. I have put all the links to all the official documents. Even Anwendungshinweis des BMI does not state explicitly that a job function with personal responsibility is required.

If I get such an answer, I would ask for written proof for that comment and would go directly to a lawyer.

I am sure we will win court cases. I don't know why they just do an easy life, which is already for a lot foreigns in Germany, very complicated to us. The official I have talked asked me to get such incredible things that you wouldn't believe. I will not comment on this until my procedure is finished...


2. Is there anybody who has been successful in getting NEH with the latest changes of the law.


No. There are 2 cases in Hamburg where I am living, which are in the same status. We are just waiting and waiting and waiting...

The law is very new, officials just do not know it. And also, due to the crisis Arbeitsamt and related local authorities will be very busy in the next weeks.

Therefore as I said in my prev posts, I repeat 1000th time:
- take print out documents
- contact a lawyer
- constantly follow and ask the officials.

Please update your case (not only you, but all related people).

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
01.02.09 05:49 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Klenze17 thanks for the reply, I have read all the previous posts but I could not find any such things as Organisation charts and stuffs mentioned anywhere in the law, so I wanted to know if somebody knows about it.

After some searching I found a document which is from Arbeits Agentur website. Do you or anybody has any comment on that.

http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/zentraler-Content/A01-Allgemein-Info/A015-Oeffentlichkeitsarbeit/Publikation/pdf/DA-Aufenthaltsgesetz.pdf

Refer to Page 25 and 26, which I could not understand completely. Maybe you have some comment on that.

I believe it tells Arbeitsamt to whom to consider Hochqualifiziert.

br
trustuser
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
01.02.09 12:43 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
trustuser writes:
After some searching I found a document which is from Arbeits Agentur website. Do you or anybody has any comment on that.

http://www.arbeits...Aufenthaltsgesetz.pdf

Refer to Page 25 and 26, which I could not understand completely. Maybe you have some comment on that.

I believe it tells Arbeitsamt to whom to consider Hochqualifiziert.


Trustuser, many thanks for this document!

This document also confirms the Anwendungshinweis des BMI, ie. that there is no requirement for a manager function, however it is asked to have an "experienced" function (page 25):

Bei dem Personenkreis nach Nummer 3 ist die Annahme der Hochqualifikation durch die
Berufserfahrung und berufliche Stellung gerechtfertigt. Die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze zur gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung wird jährlich zum Ende des Kalenderjahres an die allgemeine Entwicklung angepasst. Sie findet sich in der Verordnung über maßgebende Rechengrößen der Sozialversicherung, die im Bundesgesetzblatt Teil I veröffentlicht wird.


This "Berufserfahrung und berufliche Stellung" is interpreted by the officials as though you must have a manager function. However it is not required. You must have a extensive job experience. You can prove it by your grade and number of years you have worked.

And a very interesting point is (page 26):

Nach § 3 BeschV / § 2 BeschVerfV bedarf die Erteilung einer Niederlassungserlaubnis an Hochqualifizierte nach § 19 Abs. 2 keiner Zustimmung der Bundesagentur für Arbeit.

This is the best thing I have seen!

We can get this permit without permission of Arbeitsamt !!

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
04.02.09 11:47 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Klenze17,

Today i have received my NE under the new rule. I am very much thankful to you for letting me know about the new law. Your information was very much helpful for me.

Thanks a lot to TRUST7.

Krishna
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
04.02.09 16:33 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Congrats Krishna

As i mentioned in my post, I have only 1 salary slip. But my Appointment letter says the salary is 67.200 per annum. Shall i apply now or should i wait till i get 3 months salary slips.

Prlamun
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
04.02.09 16:42 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@prlamun

Why dont you apply now and see what they say? As you would have know by now, the requirements are different from region to region and there is no standard rule.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
04.02.09 17:12 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@prlamun,

I don't have any idea on this, also as the above reply says, give a try by approaching them directly, of course take the copies of new law (as proof, you can show them if the official doesn't know about this new law).

Good Luck

Krishna
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
04.02.09 22:38 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Krishna,

congratulations!! I am the one who followed this law at most but I still have not got it emoticon

Please tell me what you did up to now.
- How long did it take?
- What documents did you give?
- Did they talk to Arbeitsamt?
- Which state?

Please write these things and important things here so that everyone can benefit, even me. Since this law is very special case, every single info will help.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
04.02.09 23:05 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Klenze17,

- How long did it take?
3 Weeks
- What documents did you give?
Last three months pay slips,Letter from my employer (stating my salary & since when i am employed), Letter from Krankenkasse (that i am insured), Letter from landlord (since when i am living, how big the apt, and size of each room etc) { I called Landratsamt and told them i want to apply for NE, and they sent me the list of documents(above) and forms to be filled from me and landlord}
- Did they talk to Arbeitsamt?
I dont know
- Which state?,
Erding, Bayern

hope this helps

Krishna
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
09.02.09 14:15 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Krishna,
Many Congratulations for getting NE!
I and few other indian friends would like to know a few more details since yours is a successful case, we have also applied but in Baden Wurtemmberg.

Could you kindly provide your email id or mail at kps1101@gmail.com.


Many Thanks
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
10.02.09 12:47 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Everybody,

I have been to Auslaenderamt this morning to apply for NE under NE AufenthG §19.

She reviewed all my documents and said in theory it is possible to apply for this visa. More she said it would take at least 2 weeks time.

In addition, I am also eligible for NE under "§ 9/9a Erlaubnis zum Daueraufenthalt-EG"

Out of these two options which one is better to have?

How long does NE under § 9/9a Erlaubnis zum Daueraufenthalt-EG will take? Is it necessary to have Deutschintgration Kurs and ZD certificate and so on?

Can any one give suggestions on this issue?



Thanks, Suresh
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
10.02.09 14:34 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@Suresh

"Erlaubnis zum Daueraufenthalt-EG" is the best residence permit. Go for it, if you fulfill all conditions, It is better than NE.
The best things with this is, it is also unlimited, you can work in many EU countries with this and above all, you can be stay outside EU upto 12 months (with normal NE, you can only stay upto 6 months.

It took for me only 2.5 weeks to get "Erlaubnis zum Daueraufenthalt-EG" but it varies from place to place.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
10.02.09 15:56 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Sorry guys, I am bit lost in this discussion. Can some one clarify as to what NE is all about?
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
10.02.09 16:14 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
NE= Niederlassungserlaubnis = Permanent residenship.

That means you can stay in Germany forever if you want (with some small capitals).

But that's pretty basic, if you don't know this, you probably need to know more, thing that you can easily get using the search functionality.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
10.02.09 16:21 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Thanks YO. Well I know Niederlassungserlaubnis. But never knew that NE is the term used for it and I am hearing this for the first time :-)

Cheers mate !!
B
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
10.02.09 17:42 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@UMTS11,

Thanks for advice.

Did they ask for any German language certificates for NE-Deuer EG?

Suresh
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
10.02.09 18:43 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@Suresh

They did not ask me any language certificate, although i took one with me, i think they guess it when you speak with them, how good your language is.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
10.02.09 20:27 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Well reading all of your posting, I am getting a feeling that NE is some thing for which you as a candidate drive and get it done. On the other hands, for all of my friends, the foriegn office is chasing the candidates and giving the status. I heard that as soon as you complete 5 years, you get a reminder to apply for NE or at the time of your work visa expiry, they automatically upgrade you to NE status when you visit them for stamping.

Are there any other experiences?
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
10.02.09 21:29 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@UMTS11,

Well, I managed all conversation only in German with authorities. I am pretty okay at speaking and understanding except the grammar part.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
16.02.09 18:59 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello,

First of all I want to thank everyone for the info presented in this topic, for me this is a priceless source of information.

I'm an IT specialist and I plan to move to Germany to work. For this i need Limited Residence Permission, and I've found a lot of information on the net regarding this, and each source states something different about the following issues:

1. Who must apply for the limited residence permission, me or the employer?
2. Is the minimal 64000 EU salary requirement applied for the limited residence permission? Or maybe some other minimal value?

I'd be grateful if someone, who has experience in getting this working visa, can help me with an answer or knows some up-to-date resource on the net about this.

Beforehand Thanks,
Felix
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
16.02.09 20:31 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@Felix24

1- Employer

2- There is no official salary limit for the limited residence permit. Dont mix up the things. This thread talks about getting UNLIMITED residence permit. For the limited one, it should be enough to get a salary offer which corresponds to the average salary for a German Citizen with the same qualifications as you in that region.(Just to make sure that you are not coming to Germany as a cheap labor..) This value is determined by the regional Arbeitsamt.. should be smt like ~40K annual in West Germany States for a fresh IT graduate.

Regards,

Lacrima
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
17.02.09 11:30 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Good morning Lacrima

Thanks to you for the answer, you helped me a lot :]

Best,
Felix
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
19.02.09 17:11 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi all,

Firstly to answer your question Sandeep, €200 is a bit high for NE application as I just applied for it today and was told it would cost me €85 here in Munich.

I just want to share my case so that others can benefit from it. I went to the KVR in Munich to apply for the NE based on the new law change for 'hochqualifizierte' today.

The beamter was not too sure about the law change but he asked for all the relevant documents(the usual stuff mentioned by the others in previous posts). But never asked me for my rental contract.
Did show him a print out of the new law change as well.

Then he asked me to wait outside and after about 10mins called me in again and said everything is in order and I should get the NE in about 3 weeks.

So I guess they are aware of this new law at the KVR in Munich as well. Hope this info helps.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.02.09 12:34 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi all,

Just a question about this topic...does the minimun income refer to the "Brutto" or to the "Net" salary?

In my case, I'm about to have a new position next month as head of a Helmholtz Young Investigator Group (I'm into scientific research). From what I've seen, the Brutto salary will be above the limit, whereas the "net" probably won't...

thanks a lot for your input.
Ari
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.02.09 14:34 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
It is Brutto
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
25.02.09 21:20 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi All!
If someone has a job offer above 85000 per annum and the contract is initially for 3 months and is rolling, i.e will be extended every 3 months. Does arbeitsamt approve workpermit for such a case?
Does this come under Highly Skilled category?
Your response will be of value to me.
thanks and best regards,
Friendly
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
25.02.09 21:40 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@Ulmer001

Are you freelancing or does the clients extends your companies contract every three months? The basic criteria for NE is that the contract with your company should be unbefristet. People with befristete contracts do get NE but the Beamters make it difficult. What exactly is your situation with the company?
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
26.02.09 01:54 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hallo,

My pay is more than 67000 per anum and I am working in germany from last 4 years and 4 months. Today I went to the visa office for requesting the NE by this rule. I took "DA-Aufenthaltsgesetz.pdf" with me as well.

They said my current visa is issued with only depending on the company by according to the paragraph 9. So, I am not elisible for this. Then I asked to show paragraph 9 in the above pdf. They looked and said it is not there in the above PDF.

But In my visa, I didn't find paragraph 9 any where. The following are the contents inside my visa,
"
ART des titels AUFENTHALTSERLAUBNIS

anmerkung § 18 AufenthG

Beschäftigung gemäß § 27 Beschv gestattet. Selbständige oder vergleichbar unselbständige Tätigkeit nicht gestattet

aufenthaltserlaubnis erlischt bei Aufgabe der Beschäftigung bei der Fa. XXXX in city als IT-Fachkraft.

Sonstige Beschäftigung nur mit vorheriger Zustimmung der Ausländerbehörde gestattet.

"
And they said, if I finished 5 years and cleared the "Orientierungkurs" then only I am eligible for NE it seems.

I asked at lease to remove the company name in my visa as I am staying here from last 4 years. They said, that is also not possible.

Only if I come with another company offer letter, then they will change the company name in the visa it seems.(they won't agreed to remove the name as such).

Can any one please suggest me whether I can do any further steps to get NE or removing the company name in my visa?
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
26.02.09 12:16 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Tani007,

first of all, congratulation for your salary.

Second, they told you absolutely s..t! You have now a very bad visa (the same I had). You could have deleted the company name after 2/3 years here in Germany, no matter what ABH have told you.

You can NOW get your NE. Read this thread carefully and eventually contact those guys which already got the NE for high salaries.

If not, you can contact the lawyers named in this forum and surely they will get all done for you.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
26.02.09 13:27 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
As YO1 said, you have been take for a ride by the Beamter regarding the company name. Try searching for BE or Beschaftigung erlaubt and you will find also the respective law section. Throw the book back at them. Regarding NE, you have to do the Orientierung course.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
26.02.09 21:54 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Raj/Others!
My contract is extended each 3 months.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
27.02.09 01:37 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi tani007,

Yes, you have been taken for a ride and given a lot of bull s..t from the beamter. I changed my permit and got it not attached to my employer after 2 years.(That is the law)

Then using the new law, just applied for the NE last week. But as all the others have posted here, it really depends on the beamter. If nothing really works, then you really need to get a lawyer to help you get the stuff done.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
28.02.09 11:14 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
I recently got my NE for highly skilled. I gave them a copy of my last 3 months of salary, my work contract, my rental contract, and a certificate from my employer stating my annual salary. In addition I also gave them a copy of my last year's income statement.

There was a question here asking about whether the salary includes the urlaubsgelt and christmas bonus (i.e. if you have a 13.2 month contract). My salary is above the limit when it is 13.2 months, and below when it does not include these urlaub and christmas gelt.

As a reference, I work for a tech company and doing R&D work.
It took me about 2 weeks to get the NE.

Interestingly, I consulted an immigration lawyer about my qualification before I applied and he told me that in addition to the salary, I should be able to show the authorities I am managing a group of maybe 5 people in the German company I work for as a second requirement. He said that these are the 2 criteria that should be fulfilled, and the chances of me getting this NE is tough.

I went ahead anyway without a lawyer since I thought the second criteria is not the only way to prove one is highly skilled, and I felt working in the R&D group of the company is a proof enough to qualify me as highly skilled in addition to my years of experience and educational background.

I wanted to share this information as my way of giving back to this very helpful site where I got a lot of information about the NE.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
01.03.09 01:25 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Dear Friend (chowman),

Thanks for sharing the nice information.

Can you please answer the following questions,

Have you taken Orientierungkurse before requesting NE?
Approximately what date you started the process and when you got NE stamping finally?
Which state you are located in Germany?
When you approached first time to visa office (for NE), Is beamter understood this rule without any complications?
How long have you been in Germany?
And also if you don't mind, can you tell me the visa name which you have earlier (means before NE)?

Sorry for asking such a big list of questions.

Thanks in advance.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
01.03.09 10:09 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Ive been here for more than 2 years. Last year I still had my work permit tied to the company, so I went to the auslanderamt this year to have the tie-up with the company removed. I forgot the name of this kind of permit which is only permissible when you have been paying taxes for about 24 months. I went to the auslander office early this year to apply for the change.

Then I heard there was a change in the law regarding the NE, so after 2 weeks (that was already late January) I was back in the Auslanderamt to claim my newly changed permit, and took to the opportunity to inquire about the change in the law on NE for highly skilled. I showed to them a printout where it says about the 63K something. The lady initially told me you can apply for that maybe later when I renew my permit (that is late this year), perhaps because she knows my permit has recently been changed. But she did mention I could apply for that if I think I qualify. She gave me a NE application form where it contains all the necessary documents.

After 2 weeks, I came back with all the documents that I mentioned and gave my form to her. They asked me to come back within 2 weeks (that is their standard lead time for processing). And it was approved in time.

I didn't do any orientation course ever since I came here, was never asked to have one. But I am taking up Deutsch lessons though, and everytime I go and talk to the people in the foreigners office I try to speak to them in Deutsch. I dont know if it has any bearing on their decision, but at least I know the rule does not require one to have the orientation course.

I am staying here in BW by the way.
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Conditions for NE
Antwort
04.03.09 15:11 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi All,
Can anybody enlighten me about the conditions for the NE to remain valid? Can I leave Germany and my job and residence here and still have my NE valid? Or there are such rules that one needs to have a registered address here for NE to be valid or one needs to keep visiting Germany once every 6 months in order to keep it valid?

Thanks in anticipation for your help.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
04.03.09 15:26 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
http://www.muenchen.de/Stadtleben/Lebenslagen_Soziales/Auslaendische_Mitbuerger/ausland/erltitel/120398/index.html

http://www.frag-einen-anwalt.de/Erl%C3%B6schen-der-Niederlassungserlaubnis-__f55825.html
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.03.09 13:50 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi All,

I just got my NE based on the new rules today morning. I applied for it 3 weeks ago and I collected it today and it costs €200. And this is here in Munich. So I guess the cost for it is right since the other posts also mentions €200.

Good luck to all the others who are applying for the NE!
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.03.09 15:39 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi All,
I was going through this section of site for last few weeks to collect latest information about new "NE Rule". I applied for it 4 weeks before just got it today (Frankfurt). I am thankful to all of your valuable information ( especially consolidated one by one user - Klenze17 on page 6).
one point to be mentioned -I just have to produce additional document from my company HR that my regular salary is more than cutoff fig. 64,800. Though it was mentioned in my emplyment contact, still they wanted it make sure that it doesn't includes bonus,addition benefits etc.
Once again thanks to trust7 and all the best for all.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.03.09 23:47 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello kriv2009,

Many Congratulations for getting NE!

As you have mentioned, trust7 has been wounderful and thanks to every who are sharing and guiding others.

With regards to NE, i will also be applying in Frankfurt. Basically it would be helpful to know 1. What are all the documents you submitted 2, What about the German language? etc. Could you kindly provide your email id or mail your contact at vasudev_s@rediffmail.com so that i will be able to clarify some queries directly with you.

Regards,
vasuja
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
16.03.09 20:37 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi folks,

afternoon I have finally got this NE wrt. §19.2.3 (Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte).

It took for me 2 months to get this permit, because:
1. waited 2 weeks that my registration documents were transferred from the other local authority (because I had moved to another place in the city)
2. official did not know that there is no need for Arbeitsamt to give approval because of §3 BeschV. This took 2 weeks for the official to get this fact. I had informed them that it is so.
3. I have made an application. They said that the cover of my passport was destroyed so I needed to renew my passport. Also they have asked me to bring a confirmation from my current employer that I am "specialist" and "high-qualified person". Because of some internal formalities in the company, tt took 1 month to get this writing for me.
4. Today I have finally shown the Alien Office all these documents. The official took these and then looked at Anwendungshinweis of BMI (additional document from Ministry of Interior which helps the officials to interpret the law easier) and she has seen that my min. monthly brutto salary shall be 5400 euro/month. That was not my case but my yearly annual bruto of 2007 and 2008 income fulfilled the requirements stated in the law. She was confused and talked with her manager. Her manager confirmed that my annual brutto income fulfills the requirement in the law.

After I have paid 200 Euro and got the NE.

As you can see, that the interpretation of the law according to Anwendungshinweis des BMI is very problematic. Despite all these they cannot refuse the application because the law does not mention the monthly salary. Therefore the Anwendungshinweis causes mis-interpretation of the law.

I am also in the club of AufenthG §19!!

Wish everyone good luck and patience who wants to apply for this NE.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
16.03.09 21:46 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
gr8 !! congrats for your NE...
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
17.03.09 11:29 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Great News Klenze17. Congratulations!

Even I got NE stamped yesterday Thanks to all the members and Trust7 for your contributions and helping people like me get this visa.

Will look forward to contribute and help more people avail this benefit. I'm from frankfurt and I got this stamped after 6 weeks time.

I have an additional query, Now since I have an NE and my wife is still on dependant visa...just wanted to know, what type of visa is she eligible for? Is she eligible for NE aswell? Additional info is that she is here in Germany for almost more than a year.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
17.03.09 13:24 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Congrats to all those who got NE and Good luck for those who are expecting it. trust7 has been exceptional, certainly has been helping me with wealth of information. I sincerely thank to all those who are helping and guiding others for the betterment of everyone. Thanks guys.

Regarding NE, i am planning to apply in Frankfurt. It would be helpful to know how they approached this in Frankfurt office. Could you please let us the following:

Were you asked for German Certificate? How did you do the talking, English or German?
What are all the documents you submitted and did the officer understand this rule without any complications? While taking letter from company, which points needs to be stressed(possible to give a draft?) .

I am in Germany for 3 years. I have §18 AufenthG with the text "Beschäftigung nur gemäs § 27,1 BeschV als .....im Bezirk der Agentur für Arbeit Frankfurt am Main erlaubt.

nomad13 / kriv2009-If it is ok with you, could you provide your email contact to me (just2it@rediffmail.com).

Thanks and regards,
Dev
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
18.03.09 01:35 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
chowman wrote on 28/02/2009 9:14 am:
I recently got my NE for highly skilled.

Congratulations!! Welcome to the NE §19 Club!!

There was a question here asking about whether the salary includes the urlaubsgelt and christmas bonus (i.e. if you have a 13.2 month contract). My salary is above the limit when it is 13.2 months, and below when it does not include these urlaub and christmas gelt.

That was exactly my case. In the law text there is no citation about this kind of detailed information. It is the Anwendungshinweis des BMI ( recommendation from Ministry of Interior ) that such things are required. However it is not correct. According to the law text you must get the NE. I did it, as you did, too.

Interestingly, I consulted an immigration lawyer about my qualification before I applied and he told me that in addition to the salary, I should be able to show the authorities I am managing a group of maybe 5 people in the German company I work for as a second requirement. He said that these are the 2 criteria that should be fulfilled, and the chances of me getting this NE is tough.

As you see my friends, even a lawyer specialized in foreign rights is unable to interpret the law correctly. For example, I have no group responsibility, but I got this NE.

I went ahead anyway without a lawyer since I thought the second criteria is not the only way to prove one is highly skilled, and I felt working in the R&D group of the company is a proof enough to qualify me as highly skilled in addition to my years of experience and educational background.

Fully agreed. You have chosen the best way.

We are the most qualified foreign people in Germany. Government and State want to keep qualified people like us but we get a lot of trouble/misunderstanding at the implementation, even with the lawyers in Germany. It was really a challenge for me to get this permit, despite my 2 patent applications, 3 scientific papers, 12 years of R&D experience, my Greencard, and the relaxation in the law proposed by the government.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
18.03.09 11:35 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello,

My search for answers similar to my case hasn't produced any results and hence this question.

I am having a BE and am planning to apply for NE based on the new rule for highly-qualified professionals.

My present salary is above the prescribed limit (64.4K), but my last years' salaries for 2007 and 2008 aren't. Does this jeopardize my chances?

Any help and suggestion is highly appreciated. BTW, I will be applying in Düsseldorf.

Cheers.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
18.03.09 13:28 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@analpha
>>I am having a BE and am planning to apply for NE based on the new rule for highly-qualified professionals.

Go ahead

>>My present salary is above the prescribed limit (64.4K), but my last years' salaries for 2007 and 2008 aren't. Does this jeopardize my chances?

May or maynot. But you loose nothing by applying. If they say you need to have it atleast for 1 year then you have to wait accordingly.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
19.03.09 00:23 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
For the applicants, whose contract exceeds gross annual salary of 63.600 Euro/year (2008), 64.800 Euro/year (2009):

There are 2 points chowman told which i consider those very important:

1. Officials will ask you to show min gross salary of 5400 EUR/month, because in their Anwendungshinweis des BMI (recommendation from Ministry of Interior) says so. This gives 12 * 5400 = 64800 Euro, the minimum money stated by law for 2009. However this kind of detailed information is not mentioned in the law. Law just says you need to fulfill 64800 Euro for 2009.

If the official refuses your application accordingly, take a written proof from him/her, stating under which law your application is denied. This is very important. They must point law why you cannot get the permit. This is also technically impossible I think, because the law does not put restriction on these items.

Go to a lawyer. The document from Ministry they have conflicts with the law text. A lawyer expertized in foreign/immigration law must win any court case accordingly.

2. Officials will ask you to show such a salary where you do not have bonus payments like Zulage, Bonus, VWL (Vermögenswirksame Leistungen), Urlaubsgeld (holiday money) and Weihnachtsgeld (xmas money). I don't know whether these are also mentioned in the same document above, but the law text does not include those, either. This is absolutely conflicting to the law. I strongly recommend to go to a lawyer.

I wonder how many companies hire people with no Urlaubsgeld/Weihnachtsgeld in Germany? Only people with AT-Vertrag (contract out of union agreements) do not get these contributions (Urlaubsgeld and Weihnachtsgeld). Anyway AT-Vertrag contracts are usually in the level of 70.000 Euro/year.

And also, almost all companies in Germany give Bonus to all workers and these are also taxed and considered fully as salary calculations everywhere in Germany.

The interpretation of the law according to Anwendungshinweis des BMI is definitely unacceptable. Since the law does not mention whether bonus or such contributions must be considered or not, there can be no restriction in the requirements that can be considered, either.

Please correct me if I am wrong here.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
21.03.09 01:55 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
just2it wrote on 17/03/2009 11:24 am:
Were you asked for German Certificate?

No.

How did you do the talking, English or German?

German. German language is almost a must to get this permit. If don't know German, I don't think you can get this permit.

What are all the documents you submitted and did the officer understand this rule without any complications?

You most prove extraordinary performance at work. I have 2 patents and 3 technical papers. I have shown the official that i got prizes because of extra performance at work.

While taking letter from company, which points needs to be stressed(possible to give a draft?) .

That you are a good employee. You have extensive competence. You are "specialist" and "high-qualified". Your qualifications solve complex problems etc.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
21.03.09 14:30 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
There were some questions about the fee of this unlimited permit.

The fee for this kind of unlimited residence permit (Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte) is 200 Euro and it is also documented in the Directive for Alien Law:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsv.html#44


An Gebühren sind zu erheben

1. für die Erteilung einer Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte (§ 19 Abs. 1 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes) 200 Euro,
2. für die Erteilung einer Niederlassungserlaubnis zur Ausübung einer selbständigen Tätigkeit (§ 21 Abs. 4 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes) 150 Euro,
3. für die Erteilung einer Niederlassungserlaubnis in allen übrigen Fällen 85 Euro.


You can find this fee too high, but don't forget, it is an unlimited permit. You get this kind of permit probably only once in your life. It is very difficult to get such kind of permit in Germany. Therefore it is worth paying that. If it had been 500 Euro, i would have paid it too.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.03.09 21:49 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi all,

I could use some help here.

Been in Germany for about 2,6 years now and have a salary of 72k per annum.

I apologise upfront If my question seems primitive but could not locate a thread where this was answered.

1.My employer is ok with being involved in the process , what is the first thing we do? Contact the local Landratsamt and ask for the application papers?

2.My salary slips over the last 6 months clear the threshold mark but a part of my job contract states pro/stunden at customer site.I am a permanent(with a consulting firm) but work on an hourly rate at a customer site.I dont know If too many others are familiar with this model, but Would this hamper my chances?

Would appreciate your input.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.03.09 22:08 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Billawry wrote:
Been in Germany for about 2,6 years now and have a salary of 72k per annum.

I apologise upfront If my question seems primitive but could not locate a thread where this was answered.


This is exactly the correct thread for your case. Welcome to Trust7 and to correct thread!

Also, I strongly advise you to read this complete thread. In this thread there are very important and useful information for you which will answer almost many of your questions.

Billawry asks:
1.My employer is ok with being involved in the process , what is the first thing we do? Contact the local Landratsamt and ask for the application papers?

In which state are you? I am in Hamburg, where I am living but I have not been to a high local authority like Landratsamt. Anyway...

The user mkvsr, his name is Krishna has asked his company HR to contact to Landratsramt. Please contact to him.

Or, Landratsamt already done his process so they are familiar with it. I would then propose to contact them directly what documents to be needed.

Krishna wrote that following documents were needed for Landratsamt:
http://www.trust7.com/en/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__65

Billawry asks:
2.My salary slips over the last 6 months clear the threshold mark but a part of my job contract states pro/stunden at customer site.I am a permanent(with a consulting firm) but work on an hourly rate at a customer site.I dont know If too many others are familiar with this model, but Would this hamper my chances?

I got a similar case. My root salary was below the 5400 EUR/month, stated by the recommendation from Ministry of Interior (Anwendungshinweis von BMI) and in my case the official was not convinced to give me the NE.

After I have shown her Lohnsteuerbescheinigung of 2007 and 2008, in which I have proven that my gross annual salary exceeds 64.800 Euro, they have given me the NE because monthly salary requirement is "overwritten by" my proof of yearly performance.

If the official will look at your "root salary", he will probably not accept it.

I strongly recommend you to find a formulation in written form like Lohnsteuerbescheinigung, that annual gross salary exceeds 64.800 Euro. because if they look at the contract they will not see 5400 Euro/month and not 64.800 Euro/year.

And/or take a writing from your company for Landratsamt or your company HR must give a writing to Landratsamt in which it is stated that your gross annual salary is beyond 64.800 Euro for 2009. They must document in this writing that they guarantee or that they have guaranteed this condition for you.

Otherwise it will be damned difficult to convince the officials. It took for me 2 months to convince them.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.03.09 22:43 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Thanks for the welcome and quick response Klenze.

Ok, So there are obstacles with this mode of work. I could get my employer issue me the >64k confirmation.

So, did you go to the auslanderbehorde or arbeitsamt in the absence of a landsratamt. The reason I ask is although my hauptwohnung is Munich my seconary residence is in NRW, which begs the question as to where I should apply.

Munich, I understand is a better option given that they know about this and have a process in place. Is there a restriction that I must apply only in NRW as I work here ?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.03.09 23:01 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Billawry wrote:

Ok, So there are obstacles with this mode of work. I could get my employer issue me the >64k confirmation.

This is your plan-B and I strongly recommend you to get such a paper. In order to relax your employer, you can tell them that you need this writing only for your unlimited permit application and you will not claim about anything else. In that case they can give you this much faster. In this crisis all HR people are very sensitive. This might help you.

Billawry wrote:

So, did you go to the auslanderbehorde or arbeitsamt in the absence of a landsratamt. The reason I ask is although my hauptwohnung is Munich my seconary residence is in NRW, which begs the question as to where I should apply.

I went to Ausländerbehörde. You don't need to go to Arbeitsamt. As I stated in my previous post that there are info in the thread about it. For this permit you don't need to go to Arbeitsamt (I put that information to the thread).

In your case you must apply where are working I think. Because officials will ask the data of your employer. It might be problematic to show paper from employer in NRW to Landratsamt in Bavaria. This might be more problematic and more time consuming.

I advise you to talk with your Company HR for that. They must talk with Landratsamt where your company is.

Billawry wrote:

Munich, I understand is a better option given that they know about this and have a process in place. Is there a restriction that I must apply only in NRW as I work here ?

Sorry your sentences are divided semantically. Where is your company? You must apply there. Otherwise it will be more problematic.

Talk with your Company HR. They must talk with Landratsamt of their state.

Talk to mkvsr, another forum user. Also, read all his postings he wrote in this thread.

Please read this thread completely! Because this permission is very difficult to get in Germany and there are a lot of technical details. And I repeat again: Please read the complete thread! Some of your questions are answered before! We have spent a lot of time to write this thread, please don't be lazy and read it.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
25.03.09 00:06 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Thanks Klenze,

I will have a chat with my HR soon.

Yes, I did go through the thread but with each case being unique I thought I´d just ask.

I will post here If I come across anything new or interesting.

Thanks for your time and help.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
25.03.09 04:00 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
To give you a figure how difficult to get this permit:

I have talked in 2 months with 4 different officials. The officials had to talk 3 times with their managers of Local Alien Office and 1 time with Central Alien Office in Hamburg. I have shown about 10 documents (2 patents + 3 papers + 12 years job experience + BSc/MSc title + German skills + Greencard + 64.800 Euro salary requirement). Only after this I could get this permit.

Take a look at Migrationsbericht 2007 (Immigration Data 2007 of Germany, prepared by Ministry of Interior in Germany)
http://www.bmi.bund.de/cln_095/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Broschueren/DE/2008/migrationsbericht_2007.html?nn=109632

In page 90, it says that in 2005-2007 (3 years) only 1300 people have got this permit in Germany. In page 201, just for 2007 the approved citizenship applications were 113.000. I can say the difficulty to get this permit is comparable to a citizenship application.

Therefore people who intend to get this permit must read this thread completely and must be very prepared. The way through lawyer and/or company might be easier. I did not take that way and it was really challenge.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
26.03.09 10:54 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@ Klenze

Congrats!! I just saw that you have your NE..

You deserve that!! Hats off!!

Wish you all the best in Germany..The next step is German Passport!!

Regards

Rajesh
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
26.03.09 13:27 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Rajesh,

thank you very much. Now we are in §19 Club!

A question to you. The Immigration Report 2007 of Ministry of Interior, page 90 says, that for statistical purposes all people with this NE §19 were sent a letter to participate/contribute statistical research of the state about immigration ( http://www.bmi.bund.de/cln_095/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/Broschueren/DE/2008/migrationsbericht_2007.html?nn=109632 ):

Eine schriftliche Befragung von Hochqualifizierten mit einem Titel nach § 19 AufenthG, die im März 2008 durch das Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge durchgeführt wurde, ergab bei einer Grundgesamtheit von 510 zurückgeschickten und auswertbaren Fragebögen, dass 83,3 % der Hochqualifizierten einen Ehe- oder Lebenspartner/in haben. Diese leben in 92 % der Fälle ebenfalls in Deutschland (vgl. dazu Kapitel 2.7). Von den (Ehe) Partnern und (Ehe)Partnerinnen gehen 23,8 % einer Vollzeitbeschäftigung und 35,1 % einer Teilzeitbeschäftigung nach.

Such a pool was not done in 2006 or prior to 2006:
http://www.bmi.bund.de/cln_095/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2007/mitMarginalspalte/12/migrationsbericht.html

You got this NE §19 in 2005:
http://trust7.com/en/foren/visa_questions/got_ne_under_leading_scientist_category

Have you also got such a pool letter from state?

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
26.03.09 17:16 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello guys,
1. I need to ask you an important thing. My annual income for the year 2008 was lower than 63,600 euros.
However, now i belong to higher salary group and getting my higher salary since jan-2009 which in sum would be more than 64,800 euros by the end of 2009. i want to apply for NE according to §19.
As this law is applicable since Jan-2009, so it makes no sense to take into consideration year-2008 salary statements.
Do you guys also think the same?
Do you think that a letter for the company stating my annual income for year 2009 is more than enough ?

2. If for some reasons i am not able to apply for NE accordance to §19, which Visa is good for me with following,
-unbefristeter working contract
-married to an european girl

thank in advance
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
26.03.09 17:35 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
tucoduco, all previous postings in this thread answer all your questions. Before you apply for this special NE, I strongly to recommend you to read this thread. I repeat: Please read the complete thread. You can find the answers of all of your questions. Despite that I answer them.

A lot of forum members are lazy to read this thread. To all forum members who are interested in this special NE: This special NE is very difficult to get in Gemany. We have experienced a lot of things, and we have written a lot of things in this thread which will answer many of your questions. Please read the complete thread first, for Mardok's sake emoticon

tucoduco wrote:
1. I need to ask you an important thing. My annual income for the year 2008 was lower than 63,600 euros.
However, now i belong to higher salary group and getting my higher salary since jan-2009 which in sum would be more than 64,800 euros by the end of 2009. i want to apply for NE according to §19.
As this law is applicable since Jan-2009, so it makes no sense to take into consideration year-2008 salary statements.
Do you guys also think the same?


Yes. It does not make sense to show the salaries from 2008 because with them you don't fulfill the requirement in the law (63.600 Euro for 2008). The official wants to see in written form that you have fulfilled or you have to fulfill the requirement in the law in 2009. The requirement in the law is that all what you earn in your latest 12 months at your employer has to exceed the Beitragsbemessungsgrenze of the year. It is 64.800 Euro in 2009. No matter what you earn. Salary, extra bonus, Xmas bonus, holiday etc. Just sum up them. If you achieve the value above, then you have chances. Update: Or if you can prove that your monthly gross salary is 5400 Euro/month, then it is also ok.

tucoduco wrote:
Do you think that a letter for the company stating my annual income for year 2009 is more than enough ?

Yes. This is the only way to "convince" the officials, because Alien Office wants to see a written evidence. This will be like a contract in which it is stated in written form, signed by your employer, that your annual gross income will exceed 64.800 Euro for 2009, or that your monthly gross salary is 5400 Euro/month. If you can get such a letter/document from your employer, then you can have a chance to get this NE.

I have one friend, who has found a job, then come to Germany in January 2009 with a job contract, in which it is stated that her employer has hired for such a salary in which she gets more than 64.800 Euro per year. This is a written evidence for the officials. The officials gave her then this NE.

tucoduco wrote:
2. If for some reasons i am not able to apply for NE accordance to §19, which Visa is good for me with following,
-unbefristeter working contract
-married to an european girl


The correct form of your phrase "Unbefristeter working contract" is "unbefristeter Arbeitsvertag" in German (unlimited work contract in English). No matter if you have limited or unlimited job contract, you can lose your job anytime. Then you have no chance any more to apply this NE. You can then apply for the "regular NE", in which you prove that you have paid 60 months of pension fund (Rentenversicherung).

Marrying a European girl? You mean a woman with EU citizenship. Citizen From the older EU member countries like Germany, if you can get married with such a woman, then you can get NE in 3 years.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
26.03.09 18:52 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@Klenze17:

by the way Klenze17, CONGRATULATIONS MAN!

I was very unpollaid.

Welcome to the club of the NEs. Now is time to start thinking in the next step isn't it?

You fought a lot for the Higly Skilled NE, I hope at least we were out to celebrate a little bit.

Enjoy your stay!

PS: by the way, even I had NE I followed your complete thread!
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
26.03.09 20:13 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello Klenze17.

First of all I would like to thank you for guiding me and as far I can see you are kind enough to help other as well. We must applause all your effort for guidance.

I have few things to ask. Despite, I have gone through complete thread and read all information needed for NE accordingly §19.

Klenze17. wrote:

Yes. It does not make sense to show the salaries from 2008 because with them you don't fulfill the requirement in the law (63.600 Euro for 2008). The official wants to see in written form that you have fulfilled or you have to fulfill the requirement in the law in 2009. The requirement in the law is that all what you earn in your latest 12 months at your employer has to exceed the Beitragsbemessungsgrenze of the year. It is 64.800 Euro in 2009. No matter what you earn. Salary, extra bonus, Xmas bonus, holiday etc. Just sum up them. If you achieve the value above, then you have chances. Update: Or if you can prove that your monthly gross salary is 5400 Euro/month, then it is also ok.

Is there any reference in the written form that I would require latest 12 months salary? If yes please provide it. I think that every official person in Germany only believe WRITTEN TEXT and SOURCE OF INFORMATION. Nevertheless, I have counted my total income in latest 12 months which is more than 64,800 euros.

My employer has a problem to state the total amount of income for 2009 which is not given to me or taxed so far as nobody knows what comes next in coming few months.

Klenze17. wrote:
I have one friend, who has found a job, then come to Germany in January 2009 with a job contract, in which it is stated that her employer has hired for such a salary in which she gets more than 64.800 Euro per year. This is a written evidence for the officials. The officials gave her then this NE.


KVR Munich believes few requirements for NE accordingly §19.
- 5 years stay in Germany
- min amount of total income more than 64800 euros
- pre-scrutiny for 3-4 weeks before stamping NE
- certificate from the company about total income HOWEVER IT IS STILL UNCLEAR FOR LATEST LAST 12 MONTHS OR FOR THE COMING YEAR.
- Nothing else e.g. house contract, language requirement, insurance, etc.

Any idea if you are married a girl from the country which is a part of new EU for example Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria.
I heard something about Aufenthaltserlaubnis-EU. Is anyone has an idea?
Thanx in advance.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
27.03.09 17:25 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
tucoduco, below I have given several references to postings in this thread which answers all your questions. There are information spread in the thread which you have to bind like a lego to solve a problem. I did it for you. Therefore I am still in the opinion that the complete thread answers all of your questions.

tucoduco wrote:
Is there any reference in the written form that I would require latest 12 months salary? If yes please provide it. I think that every official person in Germany only believe WRITTEN TEXT and SOURCE OF INFORMATION. Nevertheless, I have counted my total income in latest 12 months which is more than 64,800 euros.

There is no reference for requirement of latest 12 months salary, but "common sense" is the reference which answers your question. This was my case and I have told my case in this thread. It depends upon your condition whether you would require latest 12 months salary or not. Choose which condition below suits you.

Condition 1. If you can show the official that you have such a job contract, in which it is stated in written form that your monthly salary is more than 5400 EUR/month for 2009, then you get this NE. This phrase "5400/EUR" is in the Anwendungshinweis des BMI (Recommendation from Ministry of Interior which helps the officials to interpret this law). The official in Hamburg has shown me this text. It is not on internet yet, but soon I hope.

Condition 2. If you can show the official that you have such a job contract, in which it is stated in written form that your annual gross salary is more than 64.800 EUR/year for 2009, then you must get this NE. There is an important note on this, which I had explained in following posting of this thread: http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__123

Condition 3. Even if you cannot show the official that you have such a job contract, in which either Condition 1 or Condition 2 are satisfied, you still have chance to get this NE, in which you can show your latest 12 month salary slips or 2008 annual gross salary, where it can be seen that you exceed 63.600 Euro (2008). This answers your question above. This was my case and I could convince the officials with this "technique" and I got the NE. I have explained in another posting in this thread how I did it: http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__116

This "technique" (or common sense or choose any other word you want) is not documented anywhere but it was "common sense" I told you above and officials accepted my "technique". There is an important note on this, which I had explained in following posting of this thread: http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__123

Condition 4. If none of the conditions above can be satisfied and if you think that your annual gross salary will achieve 64.800 EUR/year 2009 and you cannot prove it in written form, then you must wait until the end of 2009, when you can prove you did it. There is no other way.

tucoduco wrote:
My employer has a problem to state the total amount of income for 2009 which is not given to me or taxed so far as nobody knows what comes next in coming few months.

Of course. No private company on Earth can do such a thing. Then you must choose the Condition 3 I told you above. If you can show that you got 63.600 EUR/year for 2008, then you can get NE, in the same way I did. It would be phantastic if your annual salary you got 2008 exceeds even 64.800 Euro/year for 2009. Official might unknowingly see that your salary in 2008 might satisfy 2009 requirements. We have discussed this in following posting in this thread: http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__52

tucoduco wrote:
KVR Munich believes few requirements for NE accordingly §19.
- 5 years stay in Germany


Absolutely wrong. There is no such requirement in the law: http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19 . Take a copy of it and show the official. Take me as an example. I am in Germany for 4 years and I got this NE.

- min amount of total income more than 64800 euros

This is yearly amount of "Beitragsbemessungsgrenze" of "Rentenversicherung" (upper bound of maximum pension fund contribution ( http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitragsbemessungsgrenze#Gesetzliche_Rentenversicherung ) and it is also stated implicitly in the law text.

- pre-scrutiny for 3-4 weeks before stamping NE

Internal survey can be. But they cannot go to Arbeitsamt because of §3 BeschV ( http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/beschv.html#3 ). They do not need approval from them. I had explained this in several postings of this thread:
1. http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__53
2. http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__78
3. http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__116

- certificate from the company about total income HOWEVER IT IS STILL UNCLEAR FOR LATEST LAST 12 MONTHS OR FOR THE COMING YEAR.

I have explained above.

- Nothing else e.g. house contract, language requirement, insurance, etc.

Usual stuff.

I have deleted the rest because it does not have to do with this thread. Please direct those questions in another thread.

Please let me know if there is anything which is still unclear for you.

Klenze17.

UPDATE: I added Condition 4.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
27.03.09 17:44 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
thank you very much Klenze17.

I would definitely follow the instructions given and personally experienced by you.
You are right that a technique of showing latest last 12 month salary statements would definitely help.
Once again, your collection of technical informations and guidance given by you are worthy for all who are planning to apply for NE
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
27.03.09 17:59 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
You are right that a technique of showing latest last 12 month salary statements would definitely help.

Definitely. Past data is a convincing reference for the official that you get similar salary in the future. If you cannot show a reference from past (if you cannot show 63.600 Euro/year in 2008) then the case will be Condition 4 in my previous posting. You have to wait until end of 2009 when you can prove you did 64.800/year for 2009. Period.

In my case I even showed my salaries from 2007, which I have proven that my salary is above 63.600 (2008) and 64.800 (2009), to be 110% safe. It was convincing enough. For more info, please read my posting in this thread: http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__116

Once again, your collection of technical informations and guidance given by you are worthy for all who are planning to apply for NE

I have given all technical data for this NE. It is very difficult to convince officials in Germany so that they give you this NE. I aged 4 officials, 1 manager for my case emoticon

YO1 wrote:
@Klenze17:

by the way Klenze17, CONGRATULATIONS MAN!


Thanks YO1. It is nice in life to see when you get what you want.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
28.03.09 12:36 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
This is an amazing thread.

My Brutto Gehalt for 2008 is 100 EUR short of 64K. I am confident that with the recent changes to my salary, my Brutto Gehalt for 2009 would be higher than 65K.

The questions I am pondering over are:

1. I satisfy the 2008 requirement and have proof for it through my Salary slips. But, for 2009, I still have to wait for the entire year to show that my Brutto satisfies the 2009 requirement. Am I eligible now to apply for the "Niederlassungserlaubnis fuer hochqualifizierte"?

2. Some people have noted in this thread that the HR confirmation regarding one's salary is necessary. Although my Brutto Gehalt including all my benefits (urlaubs geld+ Weihnachtsgeld) + other benefits is more than the 2008 requirement, the basic salary is short of ~64 k requirement. So, will the other benefits be considered?


I currently have BE visa.
I am in Munich.
I am a telecommunications specialist with Masters qualification in Engineering from German Hochschule.

Please comment and thanks in advance!
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
28.03.09 12:59 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
vintovin, your questions have been answered before. Please read the thread again. I have explained your case one by one in http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__138 . If you had read the thread carefully, you would have seen that my case is exactly the same as yours. Below the answers:

vintovin wrote:
My Brutto Gehalt for 2008 is 100 EUR short of 64K. I am confident that with the recent changes to my salary, my Brutto Gehalt for 2009 would be higher than 65K.

The questions I am pondering over are:

1. I satisfy the 2008 requirement and have proof for it through my Salary slips. But, for 2009, I still have to wait for the entire year to show that my Brutto satisfies the 2009 requirement. Am I eligible now to apply for the "Niederlassungserlaubnis fuer hochqualifizierte"?


Yes, you have changes. Read the posts below again. They answer your questions:
1. http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__138
2. http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__141

vintovin wrote:
2. Some people have noted in this thread that the HR confirmation regarding one's salary is necessary. Although my Brutto Gehalt including all my benefits (urlaubs geld+ Weihnachtsgeld) + other benefits is more than the 2008 requirement, the basic salary is short of ~64 k requirement. So, will the other benefits be considered?

Yes. Please read my posts again:
http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__61

http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__116

Eventually Lohnsteuerbescheinigungen will help you. Please read my post again:
http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__127

vintovin wrote:
I currently have BE visa.
I am in Munich.
I am a telecommunications specialist with Masters qualification in Engineering from German Hochschule.


Look at my qualifications. It is like yours:
http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__131

Please read again the thread carefully. It answers all of your questions.

Klenze17
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
28.03.09 13:26 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello Klenze17,

Thanx for you update. I have seen, you wrote, that you were supposed to show all salary increments during last years which seems to be too much concern from officials.
I think it is always the best way if you involve your employer in this process since they are in touch with visa-Authority and can officialy talk with them in better way than us.
I have involved my employer in this matter and he confirmed the existence of this Law from officials and my suitability for NE (accordingly 19).
visa issuing authority is in contact with my employer and i am totally not involved in this process. Even my employer asked me to give me passport and photo when official give a green signal.
i would recommend the people, who are willing to apply for NE, get their employer be involved in this process to make it smoother.
The people who don't fulfill the requirement of having total amount of money >63,600 euros for 2008, should not show official the statement about total income in 2008. for them it would be better way to show latest 12 months salary statements with total sum more than 64800 euros.
Am i write Klenze17?
Involvement of employer is the most important action for NE. otherwise you need to fight for every step involved in the process.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
28.03.09 17:24 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
tucoduco wrote:
Thanx for you update. I have seen, you wrote, that you were supposed to show all salary increments during last years which seems to be too much concern from officials.

That was because of an issue in Anwendungshinweis des BMI. I have explained the reason for that in following post:
http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__123
I have informed some officials in Berlin about it.

tucoduco wrote:
I think it is always the best way if you involve your employer in this process since they are in touch with visa-Authority and can officialy talk with them in better way than us.
I have involved my employer in this matter and he confirmed the existence of this Law from officials and my suitability for NE (accordingly 19).


It depends upon applicant. I have been able to manage to complete process without any support from lawyer or my employer. The only thing I got from my employer is just a writing, that's all, then I have gone the complete process on my own. It's up to you.

tucoduco wrote:
visa issuing authority is in contact with my employer and i am totally not involved in this process. Even my employer asked me to give me passport and photo when official give a green signal.
i would recommend the people, who are willing to apply for NE, get their employer be involved in this process to make it smoother.


This is not mandatory. It's up to the applicant. As I stated in one previous post ( http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__131 ) the way through employer or lawyer can make the life maybe easier for the people who are not familiar with German law, ability to talk and negotiate the Local Authority officials in German language.

tucoduco wrote:
The people who don't fulfill the requirement of having total amount of money >63,600 euros for 2008, should not show official the statement about total income in 2008. for them it would be better way to show latest 12 months salary statements with total sum more than 64800 euros.
Am i write Klenze17?


I have already explained, what you are trying to address above, as Condition 4 in my previous post: http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__138

Some slips from 2008 and some slips from 2009 might be very problematic to convince the official. In such cases it is better getting professional support from employer or lawyer because the law and Anwendungshinweis des BMI do no cover such "tricks". They mention the wording Beitragsbemessungsgrenze, a financial term which is defined on year boundaries, not hybrid tricks you mentioned.

tucoduco wrote:
Involvement of employer is the most important action for NE. otherwise you need to fight for every step involved in the process.

As I said, it is not necessary to involve the employer or lawyer. I could do every step on my own. It's up to the applicant.

Nothing is easy. Anyway, you must fight for every step you need in your life emoticon As I said in a previous post ( http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__131 ), that difficulty to get this permit in Germany is comparable to citizenship application.

Klenze17.

UPDATE: I have updated some parts in my post. Please refresh.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
29.03.09 12:16 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@ Klenze

Yes, I got this letter!! It was actually a polite request from the state!!

Regards
Rajesh
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
07.04.09 23:44 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi all,


I went to Auslaenderbeheoerde today for the NE and I was in turn asked to come with a letter from the employer stating why I am a Hochqualifizierte employee. He also asked whether I have a leitende position. Although my job involves leading technical teams from time-to-time it is not official though.

Can any successful NE holders provide me with a format of the letter you have provided?

Another question is, he mentioned that it would take 3 weeks to get a Ok from (I miss the word ...verfassungs???) for NE. Can anyone tell me what this procedure is about?

PS>

Auslanederbehoerde contact in KVR Munich seems to be well informed and did not take much time except for asking this letter. After 3 weeks, with this letter and a Ok from his "chef" I can get the NE immediately is what I was informed.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
08.04.09 11:47 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello Vintovin,

Fortunately I was not asked for a letter that says I'm in a lead/managerial position. All they asked was a letter from the HR which says that I draw X amount per month as salary. I would suggest ask your HR to provide you a letter that mentions your designation and the salary you draw every month - Beamter might need thsi for documentation purposes alone.
About the 3 weeks time to get a OK - its a procedure that they send your documents for police verification and other verifications and to get a response from them they take 3 weeks time. It might take more or less.

All the best!
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
08.04.09 12:41 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi...

Thanks for the feedback.

He did not emphasize too much on the Leitende position although it was asked. They would like some points to be covered in the letter that "How the company sees you as Hochqualifiziert?"

And I was told, they don't verify this letter. I showed him the "Lohn steuer bescheinigung" for 2008 and convincing documents why my 2009 Lohn would be higher than require. And it was ok for him. I do not personally like to get a letter stating the salary from HR as the basic salary WITHOUT benefits and variable pay does not come up to the required mark for NE. And my HR would have difficulties mentioning the variables down on paper.

Has anyone else provided a letter answering the "How the company sees you as Hochqualifiziert?"

This letter apparently helps to make a decision whether I am qualified.

Many thanks again....looking forward if someone has provided this letter!
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
09.04.09 00:00 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
vintovin asked:
Can any successful NE holders provide me with a format of the letter you have provided?

nomad13 answered:
Fortunately I was not asked for a letter that says I'm in a lead/managerial position. All they asked was a letter from the HR which says that I draw X amount per month as salary. I would suggest ask your HR to provide you a letter that mentions your designation and the salary you draw every month - Beamter might need thsi for documentation purposes alone.

In my case they asked me to bring a letter from my HR/company stating that I am a specialist and hiqh qualifed person and why. Since I showed extra performance at work they have written that in that letter. I also made a patent application and hold a presentation at a university. HR stated this is a sign that I am a qualified person. I have an experience of 12 years, they have also stated that.

These data in the letter were convincing enough to give me NE wrt §19 (Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte).

vintovin asked:
Another question is, he mentioned that it would take 3 weeks to get a Ok from (I miss the word ...verfassungs???) for NE. Can anyone tell me what this procedure is about?

Auslanederbehoerde contact in KVR Munich seems to be well informed and did not take much time except for asking this letter. After 3 weeks, with this letter and a Ok from his "chef" I can get the NE immediately is what I was informed.


nomad13 answered:
About the 3 weeks time to get a OK - its a procedure that they send your documents for police verification and other verifications and to get a response from them they take 3 weeks time. It might take more or less.

Actually there is no need of "processing time", because there is no check or something. This permit must be given in 5 minutes. Please check, that there must be no approval from Arbeitsamt, because of §3 BeschV. Reference to my posts in this thread:
1. http://trust7.com/en/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__53
2. http://trust7.com/en/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__78
3. http://www.trust7.com/de/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__116

vintovin wrote:
He did not emphasize too much on the Leitende position although it was asked. They would like some points to be covered in the letter that "How the company sees you as Hochqualifiziert?"

Yes, exactly. I have got such a letter. In that letter it says, shortly speaking: "Klenze17 is a specialist and a high qualified person. He is showing extra-ordinary performance" etc. Additionally I did a patent application and made a presentation in a university, as I said above, they have also mentioned that.

vintovin wrote:
And I was told, they don't verify this letter. I showed him the "Lohn steuer bescheinigung" for 2008 and convincing documents why my 2009 Lohn would be higher than require. And it was ok for him. I do not personally like to get a letter stating the salary from HR as the basic salary WITHOUT benefits and variable pay does not come up to the required mark for NE. And my HR would have difficulties mentioning the variables down on paper.

I did the same. I have shown them 2007 and 2008 Lohnsteuerbescheinigung letters
http://trust7.com/en/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__127
http://trust7.com/en/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__138

vintovin wrote:
Has anyone else provided a letter answering the "How the company sees you as Hochqualifiziert?"

This letter apparently helps to make a decision whether I am qualified.

Many thanks again....looking forward if someone has provided this letter!


Yes. See above. Please search my posts in this thread. I got similar letter and it helped.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
09.04.09 15:24 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@Klenze

They usually check with several departments(Police, Finanzamt etc..). It took 6 weeks for my NE application.

Best Regards
Rajesh
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
09.04.09 16:49 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Rajesh wrote:
They usually check with several departments(Police, Finanzamt etc..). It took 6 weeks for my NE application.

I think this is done sporadically. I did not have this check... They do that randomly, I have the feeling... I have some friends in Hamburg, some of them did not have this check... Interesting..

Klenze17
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
13.04.09 12:16 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello Friends,

I know one of my friend who got his NE on the same day, applied under NE for highly skilled.

He got NE from KVR, Munich.


-- Zameer
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
17.04.09 03:08 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello,

This week i applied for NE in Frankfurt. My form was collected in the front office itself(Not inside were i used to go every year for visa extension by taking the waiting number). I explained to them what i want to apply for.

In the application from, there is no special option "Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte". I selected the one which is "Ich beantrage die Niederlassungserlaubnis". I am not sure how just by looking at the application form, they would understand that i am applying under "Hoch..."

I was asked to pay initially, 42.50 EUR and the rest later.(In the quittung it is mentioned 201: aufenthaltstitel). They told that i would get a letter, if not to contact them after 4 weeks.

Regards,
Dev
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
17.04.09 10:17 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Dev,

Which Application form did you use ?
Is this available on the Internet ?

Thanks,
Truster
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
17.04.09 11:32 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Everybody

I have gone through this informative chain.
Could any body please tell the forum what happens if you lose you job after getting NE. How long can you stay back in Germany.

Cheers
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
17.04.09 12:17 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@just2it

Initial fee for highly qualified NE application is Euro 100. If they have asked for 42.50 then it's normal fee for NE when you apply after 5 years.

Are you completing your 5 years within 2-3 months ?
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
17.04.09 12:24 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@yogesh50:

NE means you can stay in Germany forever, with or without job.

Once you got this, the rest is a matter of money. If you loose your job you will get some time unemployment benefit.

What you cannot do with NE is leaving Germany for more than 6 months. If you do that, you loose your NE and you need to start from scratch.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
17.04.09 12:37 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Thanks YO.

Seeing the current economic situation things might change for worst in coming days. Any idea what happens if you lose the job and manage to get another one which is less thank 65K per year or can you work as freelance.
Can you still keep the NE status ?
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
17.04.09 15:35 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
>>Seeing the current economic situation things might change for worst in coming days. Any idea what happens if you lose the job and manage to get another one which is less thank 65K per year or can you work as freelance.
Can you still keep the NE status ?

YO has already answered your question. NE cannot be take back unless you got it by providing false information or they made a mistake. So you are free to take aless paying job, freelance, sit at home.. as you wish
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
18.04.09 11:08 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Raj,
Which NE Application form are we supposed to use ?
Is this available on the Internet ?
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
21.04.09 04:54 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
There is no special form for this permit. A regular residence permit application you can find in any Local Authority will be filled.

In my application I wrote the reason why I applied for this permit as

"Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte nach AufenthG §19.2.3."

rohitsingh wrote on 17/04/2009 9:17 am:
http://trust7.com/en/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__157
Initial fee for highly qualified NE application is Euro 100.

The fee for this special Niederlassungserlaubnis is 200 Euro and valid for whole country. See AufenthV §44:
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsv.html#44

I did not pay the fee partially as you did. I did pay 200 Euro in one shot. I am living in Hamburg.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
23.04.09 14:47 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Finally I have become a member of "Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte" Club. It has taken approx. 3 weeks for processing through a hidden channel of different departments. My NE was totally processed by my employer; however, I have come to know about all requirements in my case.

For year 2008, my total income doesn’t fulfill a criteria of minimum total income for "Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte nach AufenthG §19.2.3." which is not mandatory required for applications in year 2009.

In my case it was asked to testify my total income for 2009. My employer has to show a certificate of my foreseen income of year 2009 which is more than 64,800 euros. It was totally acceptable.

Documents required:
-> Unlimited working contract
-> Certificate of total income for year 2009 (must be more than 64,800 euros)
-> Application form
-> 200 euros
-> No other document was asked to be shown.

A Special thank to Klenze17 and others for providing all required documents in one place and guidance.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
23.04.09 15:28 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello tucoduco,

A huge CONGRATS for your NE. If you don't mind, could you tell me wherefrom did you apply? As I see, application of this new rule is seemingly different at different provinces :-(.

Regards.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
23.04.09 15:53 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello Analphabeten
I have gone through this process in Bayern-München.
It's true that interpretation of Law as well as requirements are variable depending on region where you apply.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.04.09 00:07 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
tucoduco, congratulations! Welcome to §19 club!! It makes me happy if I could help you.

tucoduco wrote:
In my case it was asked to testify my total income for 2009. My employer has to show a certificate of my foreseen income of year 2009 which is more than 64,800 euros. It was totally acceptable.

It is very rare in the world that an employer states in written form that it will pay some amount of money 12 months in advance. Usually no employer does that because this also implicitly means that they have to employ you. This binds employers usually. Even if you are a good employer, companies usually do not do such a thing. If they have done it for you and drove your whole process, either you are a very good employee or it is really a miracle (at least for me)! And in such a crisis!

One point to mention is that if for some reason your employer terminates your contract in 2009, then you might not be able to fulfill what employer promised in written form (that you will get 64,800 Euro in 2009). In this case the law item AufenthG §55 1a might be recognized by local authorities ( http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#55 ):
(1) Ein Ausländer kann ausgewiesen werden, wenn sein Aufenthalt die öffentliche Sicherheit und Ordnung oder sonstige erhebliche Interessen der Bundesrepublik Deutschland beeinträchtigt.

(2) Ein Ausländer kann nach Absatz 1 insbesondere ausgewiesen werden, wenn er
...
1a. gegenüber einem Arbeitgeber falsche oder
unvollständige Angaben bei Abschluss eines Arbeitsvertrages gemacht und dadurch eine Niederlassungserlaubnis § 19 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 erhalten hat.

I wish that no problems would occur related this. If you keep your job the whole year 2009 then everything will be fine.

Congratulations my friend. I wish you success and joy in your life.

Klenze17.
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NE under $19 AufenthG - EG?
Antwort
24.04.09 00:29 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Dear Herr Detlef and Others,

I received the NE under $19 AufenthG, this week. When I asked for 'Daueraufenthalt - EG', AuslanderBehorde peron said, my German is not good enough. My question is:

1.Is there any difference between NE under $19 AufenthG (Hoch Qualifier) and normal NE?
2. I am told that normal NE holder automatically also gets 'Daueraufenthalt - EG'.

Any suggestion would be of great help and I thnak you in advance.

With Best Regards,
Mahesh
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
24.04.09 13:24 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Thank you Klenze17.

Klenze17 wrote: It is very rare in the world that an employer states in written form that it will pay some amount of money 12 months in advance. Usually no employer does that because this also implicitly means that they have to employ you.
As we all know that this law is not explicitly states a way how to calculate total income for an employee. It can be,
-> salary statements for last 12 months
(It is the most reasonable and authentic proof. However, it also includes few salaries from year 2008 when minimum total income for NE § 19 was much more than 64,000. Accordingly new law since Jan-2009, the minimum total income for year 2009 must be more than 64,800 euros. Now it is upto local authorities how they would like to accept the situation.)
-> a certificate showing a proof of your expected total income for year 2009
(Klenze17 wrote: This binds employers usually. Even if you are a good employer, companies usually do not do such a thing. If they have done it for you and drove your whole process, either you are a very good employee or it is really a miracle (at least for me)! And in such a crisis!
With unbefristet vertrag company (especially giant one) atleast commits for long term (God knows better) which also gives them a reason to do something for employees. )
Klenze17 wrote: One point to mention is that if for some reason your employer terminates your contract in 2009, then you might not be able to fulfill what employer promised in written form (that you will get 64,800 Euro in 2009).
If I counts my total income for last 12 months from Apr-2008 to Apr-2009, its more than 64,800 euros. It has already fulfilled the criteria for year 2009.
Klenze17 wrote:
(2) Ein Ausländer kann nach Absatz 1 insbesondere ausgewiesen werden, wenn er ...
1a. gegenüber einem Arbeitgeber falsche oder unvollständige Angaben bei Abschluss eines Arbeitsvertrages gemacht und dadurch eine Niederlassungserlaubnis § 19 Abs. 2 Nr. 3 erhalten hat.

I am sure that a giant reputed company (my case) would definitely have taken into consideration this fact along with local authorities.

I would be interested to know what happens, if a company undergoes kurzarbeit and you would be able to get less amount of money compared to 64,800 euros by the end of this year. Would local authority get a chance to ask you to show your total income more than 64,800 euros?

cheers
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
04.05.09 15:22 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi everyone and Klenze,

Thanks for the great help. After 3-weeks of waiting for NE for Höchqualifizierte, today I got Daueraufenthalt EG with reference to §9a.

My understanding of DauerAufenthalt is this is German NE+Genehmigung for other European nations. I requested this by chance and they gave me this without much fuss. I would have to pay 200 EUR for NE but for Daueraufenthalt I only had to pay 85 EUR.

Could anyone tell me whether there are some drawbacks with Daueraufentahlt vis-a-vis NE.

I applied at München KVR.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
04.05.09 18:28 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@ vintovin

First of all Congratulation on getting Daueraufenthalt-EG.

You do not have any disadvantages instead you have advantages, like:

- You can work in EU countries expect few countries
- You can stay up to 12 months out of Germany

So you are lucky you got this.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
04.05.09 23:38 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi vintovin,

congratulations my friend. Daueraufenthalt-EG is much better than NE wrt AufenthG §19, it is the highest level of permit you can get ever, before German citizenship. So the formula is:

normal permit < BE < EG < NE(all) < Daueraufenthalt-EG < citizenship

As UMTS11 also addressed, it has more advantages than the regular NEs.

Apart from 12-months threshold, the list of countries where you can stay and work with Daueraufenthalt-EG is here:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:72003L0109:EN:NOT
Denmark, England and Ireland are out of this. Spain still has not signed the Council Directive 2003/109/EC (Daueraufenthalt-EG), so the only country I know where you cannot work is Spain at the moment.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
05.05.09 00:23 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi,

@Klenze - Thanks for the information. Sounds really good!

@UMTS11 - I think the difference is, you cannot stay outside of EU fore more than 12 months but outside Germany inside EU, the stay is unlimited.

http://www.muenchen.de/Rathaus/kvr/ausland/daueregundne/262876/index.html

Mit diesem Aufenthaltstitel erlangen Sie die Rechtsstellung eines langfristig Aufenthaltsberechtigten und können sich unter erleichterten Bedingungen in der EU (mit Ausnahme von Irland, Dänemark und dem Vereinigten Königreich), aufhalten und niederlassen.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
01.06.09 00:03 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello!!

First of all thanks to Klenze and everyone else who have meaningfully contributed in this thread. I have been a silent spectator so far in this very resourceful thread and (the whole website in general).

I have got the NE under rule 19 recently. It took a really long time (> 3 months) in my case. Thanks to my landratsamt for sitting on it forever! however finally went through without any hassle.

Again, special thanks to Klenze!! but for you a lot of us wouldn't have even come to know about this rule!! keep up the great work emoticon

cheers!!
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
01.06.09 05:50 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi cougar25,

Welcome to §19 Club!!

Many thanks for your compliment. I had seen that the procedure of this permit is very complicated. Therefore I thought I have to help other people. It makes me happy that we hear here success stories like you.

This permit is given very rare in Germany. Its formalities are made so difficult that this permit is comparable to citizenship application. Almost no official knows how its formalities are. I had shown their mistakes. Actually it had to be the other way. If the officials see their mistakes, they are angry and slow down the procedure more.

All of the cases told in this thread show that the formalities are very difficult and complicated. Actually German government intended to relax/speed up the procedure but it is unfortunately the other way and I am afraid it will be always like this. Nobody sees, no press news is aware what difficulties we had.

We are the most qualified people in Germany. We have shown extraordinary performance at work/institution in this country. Authorities must see that and simplify our life. This is the reality, my friends. We must tell media/press the challenges we had.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
01.06.09 13:19 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Klenze17,

You are absolutely right, I can't agree more with you on this. I know a few others who have got their NEs recently and it had been quite cumbersome and time consuming for almost everyone. Some even had to seek legal help to answer the queries from their respective Auslanderbehoerdes.

As you said this law is quite esoteric and only a few people know about it so far. I am sure there are many more qualified people in Germany who haven't landed on this site and this thread yet to understand that they are already eligible.

As I mentioned earlier, many people like me would have been clueless but for your very profound information here. What I find really great is that you did all the hard work and had the choice of keeping it to yourself or disseminating to the public and you chose the second and let a lot of us reap from your hard work. You certainly deserve a big appreciation for this great attitude!!

Let me know when you are coming to south Germany, I owe you a treat or at least some nice German beer!! emoticon
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
02.06.09 01:47 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi cougar25,

many thanks for your comments. You have pointed out very important thing. There are a lot of high qualified foreign people in Germany who are eligible for this permit but unaware of it. You are right, people must reach this site.

Like all other cases, we all foreigner think such things are very difficult process, we take too much time to trust other people, or face problems in the authorities. As chowman said, even the lawyers specialized in foreign law are unable to support us. The thumb rule is, despite all these trouble that you must fight, fight, fight; that is the only way to win what you deserve.

Cougar, please ask Detlef to give my email address. Due to security reasons I can not write it here.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
07.06.09 01:14 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Dear Friends,

I m a regular reader of this thread and with the help of this thread i had applied for this NE on 4th June 09.

I will brief my case.

I m working for an Indian company here in Germany. I take care of European Operations here in Germany. I have 4 years of Experience in total with BE from India, and living in Germany for nearly 1 1/2 years.

The lady who received my papers told me that i have less experience and the rest everything is ok. She will inform me by Email regarding the status as soon as she gets confirmation from her superior.

Will this be a problem in my case of less experience ??

Your answers will be highly appreciated.

Prlamun
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
07.06.09 12:51 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Prlamun wrote:
The lady who received my papers told me that i have less experience and the rest everything is ok. She will inform me by Email regarding the status as soon as she gets confirmation from her superior.

Will this be a problem in my case of less experience ??


Wait until you get an answer of rejection. My comments below are valid for a rejection.

In fact the law does not put constraints on this them. However officials interpret the law in such a way that you must have years of experience.

In my opinion you have chances. Following links are from the web page of state. I think there is no information that you have to be an experienced person.

http://www.bmas.de/portal/27318/
http://www.bmas.de/coremedia/generator/26946/2008__07__16__aktionsprogramm__fachkraefte.html
http://www.bmas.de/coremedia/generator/26948/property=pdf/2008__07__16__aktionsprogramm__fachkraefte.pdf

Take these documents and go to the official and show them to him. Tell them these are state documents (all the links above are from State) and in case you did not find any information about experience requirement there, tell them there is no experience requirement and you are eligible to get this NE.

If the official still insists on rejection, then ask them to give you letter which states under which item they reject your application. You can use it to go to court. Don't tell the officials that you will go to court. Just tell them you will use the letter of rejection for further analysis. Also, do not mention the word "lawyer". Find a lawyer. You need Rechtschutzversicherung (law insurance) to get a lawyer in Germany. In Germany there is a wait period of 3 months to get the first lawyer after insurance has been signed. Later that show him that letter and the links above. He must tell you what you can do and what you can't do.

You have chances my friend but the procedure might be complex like above.

In my opinion they cannot reject your application. There is no such item in the law. But to get your right, you must fight weeks long, as you see above.

Good luck and tell us upcoming status.

Klenze17.

UPDATE: I have put an update item above, marked with bold.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
17.06.09 10:57 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi,

I have a Daueraufenthalt-EG attained through highly skilled status. (8 months short of normal NE)

Now, I have got a freelancing opportunity (6 -12 months) in the UK which requires leaving my current job and taking up this opportunity in the UK.

1. Would taking up freelancing in UK have any impact on my Daueraufenthalt-EG?

2. Any other suggestions on how to handle this situation better?

Thank you!
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
18.06.09 15:12 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Klenze,

I got a rejected letter today with the following text..
----------------

Anhoerung nach § 28 landesverwaltungverfahrensgesetz

Es ist beabsichtigt, ihren antrag auf erteilung einer niederlassungserlaubnis abzulehnen.

Sie Erhalten hiermit gelgenheit,sich bis spaetestens 02.juli 2009

Zu der beabsichtigten massnahme und den entscheidungserheblichen tatsachen zu aeussern. Sollten wir bis dahin nichts von ihnen hoeren,sowird nach aktenlage enstschieden.

Zu ihren information und zur naeheren erlaeuterung werden nachfolgend die gruende fuer die beabsichtigte massnahme kurz in stichworten angegeben.

Einem hoch qualifizierten auslaender kann gemaess § 19 Abs 1 AufenthG in besonderen Faellen eine NE erteilt werden. Bold Hoch qualifizierte sind laut §19 Abs 2 Nr.3 AufenthG Spezialisten und leitende angestellte mit besonderer berufserfahrung , die ein gehalt in hoehe von mindestens dem doppelten der beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen krankenversicherung erhalten.

Zwar erfuellen sie mit ihren gehalt die finanzielle voraussetzung ,jedoch ist in ihren fall keine besondere berufserfahrung ersichtlich.

Des weiteren verfuegen sie laut den uns vorgelegten unterlagen nicht ueber kenntnisse,die weit ueber die durchschnittlichen kenntnisse eines universitaetsabsolventen ihres alters und mit ihren berufserfahrung hinausreichen.

----------------------

I checked with our company lawyer and he said he will check in his library and discuss with foreign lawyers and get back to me.

But as per the law it is mentioned as "Hoch qualifizierte sind laut §19 Abs 2 Nr.3 AufenthG Spezialisten und leitende angestellte mit besonderer berufserfahrung" which calls for specialization and experience.

We are planning to send a letter to Auslaenderbehorde next week indicating my other qualifications and we are hoping the best.

Klenze, do you think still i have a chance.

Regards

Prlamun
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.06.09 06:49 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Prlamun,

this is difficult situation. Unlimited permit for High-skilled people are given to the people with competent work experience or extraordinary performance/skills. If you cannot show first one, then they can ask you to show them extraordinary skills, like paper or patent.

Prlamun wrote:
I got a rejected letter today with the following text..
----------------

Anhoerung nach § 28 landesverwaltungverfahrensgesetz

Es ist beabsichtigt, ihren antrag auf erteilung einer niederlassungserlaubnis abzulehnen.


This is not rejection. They have not decided yet. They have given you a chance to give an answer to them, so that it will ease their decision.

I have seen a similar case by one my friends in Hamburg. He got similar answer. However his difference is he is a very experienced person (a manager) and he will get the permit with very high probability.

Prlamun wrote:
Sie Erhalten hiermit gelgenheit,sich bis spaetestens 02.juli 2009 Zu der beabsichtigten massnahme und den entscheidungserheblichen tatsachen zu aeussern. Sollten wir bis dahin nichts von ihnen hoeren,sowird nach aktenlage enstschieden.

You must give them a written answer to the mentioned deadline to convince them, otherwise they will make a decision, which will probably be a rejection.

Prlamun wrote:
Zwar erfuellen sie mit ihren gehalt die finanzielle voraussetzung ,jedoch ist in ihren fall keine besondere berufserfahrung ersichtlich.

They did not find you experienced.

Prlamun wrote:
Des weiteren verfuegen sie laut den uns vorgelegten unterlagen nicht ueber kenntnisse,die weit ueber die durchschnittlichen kenntnisse eines universitaetsabsolventen ihres alters und mit ihren berufserfahrung hinausreichen.

They think you are not "old" and experienced.

Prlamun wrote:
I checked with our company lawyer and he said he will check in his library and discuss with foreign lawyers and get back to me.

But as per the law it is mentioned as "Hoch qualifizierte sind laut §19 Abs 2 Nr.3 AufenthG Spezialisten und leitende angestellte mit besonderer berufserfahrung" which calls for specialization and experience.

We are planning to send a letter to Auslaenderbehorde next week indicating my other qualifications and we are hoping the best.


Your lawyer must find a formulation in written form that your work experience skills match high-qualification. For example if you can get a letter from your employer that you have extraordinary skills (you are very high-qualified, you got prizes, you have shown extra ordinary performance) then it is possible to get this permit.

Otherwise it is practically to be rejected.

I am sorry, but this is the reality.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.06.09 11:57 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Prlamun,

How many years of experience you have (in total and in Germany) ?

What is the present role in your company ?
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.06.09 14:57 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
truster wrote:
How many years of experience you have (in total and in Germany) ?

What is the present role in your company ?


Please read the previous posts. Prlamun alrady mentioned his experience:
http://trust7.com/en/foren/integration/ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro/re_ne_for_highly_skilled_anual_salary_63000_euro__176

4 years of work experience, 1,5 of which is in Germany does not seem to be enough for them. Even though there is no such restrictions in the law, "specialist" or "leite angestellte mit besonderer erfahrung" ( http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#19 ) are interpreted by the officials as though you must have several years of experience or you must have extraordinary skills, as I mentioned above.

I would recommend to talk with your lawyer.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
29.10.09 22:53 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi folks,

I want to remind you that the least amount of gross annual salary will be 66K in 2010, which must be approved by Bundesrat first. It was 63.6K in 2008 and 64.8K in 2009.

People who already got NE $19 this year are lucky, because it is getting more difficult to get these salaries because of high unemployment rate in current job market.

Please do your applications as soon as possible otherwise it will be more difficult in 2010.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
31.10.09 23:14 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello Klenze17,

I live in NRW and I have requested NE under Hochqualifiert Leitende Angestellte.

The ABH official here took my copies of my 3months of Salaryslip, Arbeitvertrag and Mietevertrag. He said no other formulare is required and I am waiting since almost 3 weeks for an Answer from him.

Please advise me if something else is to be done from my side or should I just wait.

Thanks in advance,
Sri
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
01.11.09 13:14 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello All,
I am one more silent reader of trust7 and especially this thread, which is very much helpful to a person like me.

I recently came to germany through an indian company and my salary is just above the 64,800 required for NE.

After information from my friends and this thread, I approached the auslanderbehorde at FFM. The beamter saw my docs and informed me that I am eligible, but required the following docs.

1. letter from my company that I am permanent employee and have an unterminated contract
2. letter detailing my position and skills to show that I am highly qualified
3. A form(given by beamter) to be filled by my landlord
4. last 3 months salary slips.

I paid 100Euro and asked to me contact them between 6 and 8 weeks from that date.

Though its almost impossible for me to get letters from indian company(which wants me to go back when my work completes here). It seems from this thread, these docs are not that required, but it is upto the beamters.

So, as of now, I am just waiting to try my luck after 6 to 8 weeks. Any suggestions, welcome !
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
02.11.09 20:24 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Srikar,

as you also said and read, it is actually to the decision of official whether you need take a letter from your employer or not.

Officials/local authorities simple just don't find salary slips and your writing enough. They want to see a letter (a "3rd source/party", which is your employer) that you are really a high qualified person.

You said you have come through an Indian company. The law gives permits only to the workers who are working in a company officially registered in Germany, where your salary is taxed according to German finance system/law. In your case if your company has an office/subsidiary somewhere in Germany then you can get this letter from them.

Otherwise it is impossible to get this permit or very difficult to get this permit.

That you paid 100 Euro is actually a "positive sign" that you might get this permit. This permit costs 200 Euro in Germany. You pay the rest only after the official is convinced about your status in Germany.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
02.11.09 20:52 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Sorry Sri, I must have skipped your post.

Sri wrote:
I live in NRW and I have requested NE under Hochqualifiert Leitende Angestellte.

The ABH official here took my copies of my 3months of Salaryslip, Arbeitvertrag and Mietevertrag. He said no other formulare is required and I am waiting since almost 3 weeks for an Answer from him.

Please advise me if something else is to be done from my side or should I just wait.


Actually you have done everything they need. You can trigger them I think. You can now ask them about the actual processing status of your application.

They cannot ask approval from Arbeitsamt due to §3 BeschV ( http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/beschv.html#3 ). If they did that, show them this law text. Sometimes officials don't pay attention to it and write to Arbeitsamt.

Just ask them your application status and let us know. Then I will give you more tricks how to do it (all of which I already written in this thread). I have NE §19 and helped all the people here in Trust7 who go this permit and also 2 other people with personal effort so I know a little what to do.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
02.11.09 20:54 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello Klenze,

Could you please look into my post and let me know if something else is to be done. The Beamter did not collect any fees at all in my case

I live in NRW and I have presently BE till 2011. I have requested NE under Hochqualifiert Leitende Angestellte.

The ABH official here took my copies of my 3months of Salaryslip, Arbeitvertrag and Mietevertrag. He said no other formulare is required and I am waiting since almost 3 weeks for an Answer from him.

Please advise me if something else is to be done from my side or should I just wait.

Thanks,
Sri
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
02.11.09 20:59 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Srikar,

1. The letter which she asked you to get is really at discretion of the officer sitting and dependent on the location. Some ask, the others dont. In general any company would be willing to write you a letter saying Mr Srikar is for example working as a SPECIALIST(this is what they are looking for) IT Consultant in the area of XYZ (complicated sounding) and has a bachelors and masters degree in XYZ.

Noone should be against it as in Germany this employement certificate is something very normal. Its called Arbeitgeberbescheinigung.

2. There is no rule which actually says that you need to have a permanent job. The only thing they are looking for is that you will not be dependent on the social system in the nera future. So if you have a job for lets say next 1.5 years at the German subsidiary of an Indian company, it should be fine.

Once again I am quite sure about this and if the officer says that you really need a permanent job, you can actually challenge it. I would suggest the unbureaucratic way of taking a fluent German speaking person with you and if the officer creates an issue, ask to meet the boss.

3. Yes already accepting the money is usually a sign of the officer seeing some chances of success in the application otherwise they usually say no. They have probably asked you to get the documents and in the meanwhile (3-4 weeks) they will do the security check.

I have the same PR from Munich. If you need any help, drop me an email at jivan.ki.talaash at gmail dot com
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
02.11.09 22:32 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Sri,

as I wrote in my previous post and as similar application docs have been stated several times in this thread, the docs you have given is enough.

And I repeat: But you must ask them your status. You must give an application form. A permit can be issued/filed/processed only if you fill an application form and sign it. You did not do it, so things might run slowly, which seems so. Also be certain, that they shall not talk to Arbeitsamt due to §3 BeschV.

These are officials from local autorities. Don't expect a fast response from them, like private sector. And pushing them sometimes negatively affects the procedure. However, since 3 weeks passed, you have right to talk with them. Think what you will ask/tell. Therefore be well-prepared.

As jivankitalaash stated, a letter from employer is a regular stuff in Germany. In practive they need a paper from your employer.

jivankitalaash, I'm not in the opinion what you wrote:

2. There is no rule which actually says that you need to have a permanent job. The only thing they are looking for is that you will not be dependent on the social system in the nera future. So if you have a job for lets say next 1.5 years at the German subsidiary of an Indian company, it should be fine.

I don't think that it is easy to persuade officals to give unlimited permit for limited job contracts, because they will always have the arguments "o, in this crisis after your contract is over, maybe you can't find a job and return your country. Why shall I issue it?" I don't think that a person with a limited contract will be issued an unlimited permit. We have seen similar cases in the past for regular NEs, mentioned several times on Trust7 and they all were very problematic.

Sri, Just ask them your status. Tell them you want to give an application form, ask them whether they have talked to Arbeitsamt or not. They can't talk with them by definition of law.

Don't ask "do you need additional docs?" This is always a good excuse for them to lengthen your procedure. Mentioned them what documents you have given and give them an application form.

Keep us informed.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
03.11.09 00:14 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Klenze

You are right. There is a difference between practise and theory. They do create problems probably for people with limited job but I know counter examples of some people in Munich.

But the reality still is that legally speaking this is not the rule. They have the right to ask you for a 'gesichertes Einkommen' or 'gesicherter Lebensunterhalt' but this doesnt not mean that the job definitely has to be permanent. A reasonable duration is enough. BUt we all know that they look at the whole packet, what documents did you provide, discretion, etc
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
03.11.09 01:00 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
I know what you mean. But reality has the last word. I bet no official in Germany will issue an unlimited residence permit for limited contract, especially in this crisis. Even in non-crisis times we have seen that even BE or EG was issued very difficultly for limited job contracts. You can find a lot of threads on Trust7, from 2005, 2006 and 2007. If it is difficult for BE, EG, it will be more difficult for any kind of NE.

If I were German, I would have shown the list of jobless people in the market to the person with limited contract, who applies for an unlimited permit. Even though the crisis is temporarily over, unemployment wave is coming more. In 2010 you will see more jobless people and will be much more difficult to apply for such permits.

We can make a lot of philosophy here. We must focus on practice and must tell the people realistic possibilities.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
03.11.09 09:22 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@klenze

i have always followed your advise and suggestions, and i find them really helpful.

However I would like to add that, when we talk about jobless people, than hardly 0.5% of highly qualified people are jobless. German economy relies on exports of hi-tech stuff, therefore, highly qualified people are always in demand.

Now going back to people who have problems in past, we must exercise restraint when generalizing this whole issue. It depends on several factors such as;

1- which city or state you are applying in.
2- Sachsen, Bayern, BW we agree are problematic.
3- majority of ABHs in DDR area have communist mentality people.
4- the record of applicant itself, in last 5 years or so, if you already had a bad outing at ABH, than your file is marked and forget about NE or BE or in that case even AE as well.
5- etc etc etc

Off course, unlimited job contract is the only way for Beamter/Beamterin to deny your application.

So the bottom line is, people with unlimited job contract should only apply through lawyers. Contact Detlef and he will be more than happy to introduce you to lawyers with specialization in Aussländerrechts. Good luck and keep us posted!!
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
03.11.09 09:42 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Raj wrote:
However I would like to add that, when we talk about jobless people, than hardly 0.5% of highly qualified people are jobless. German economy relies on exports of hi-tech stuff, therefore, highly qualified people are always in demand.

You are absolutely right. But the same official gives permit also to unqualified people at his-her desk. She talks maybe 1 qualified person among 1000s of non-qualified/jobless people. The lady sitting at Ausländerbehörde is talking everyday to so many jobless foreigns or Arbeitsamt talking to so many jobless Germans. Suddenly you come, you say "hey, I have limited contract, but I am qualified, give me an unlimited permit". I don't know it is that easy for someone sitting there to give what you want.. Think that way too... I also experienced similar cases.

You are absolutely right in the rest items in your post.

No matter how, I wish everyone would get this special permit. I advise all audiences to read all the posts in this thread again and again. There is invaluable information about this permit, because there is no such information anywhere else in the world and this permit is so difficult to get that it make comparable to a citzenship application in Germany.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
03.11.09 13:23 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Thanks klenze17 and jivankitalaash for your valuable suggestions.

I forgot to mention that I have already filled the application form and submitted during my first visit to AuslanderBehorde itself. Sorry, I forgot to mention this in my first post.

After translating the letter given to me by the beamter, it said that she requested for some information from federal safety department (probably police) and it will take 6-8 weeks. She also mentioned to bring the photo and passport (with one blank page) along with other docs that I mentioned before.

I have applied only 12 days back. I think I should wait for another 10 days ( 3 weeks to complete) and then contact them.

I will keep you posted the outcome.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
04.11.09 01:13 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Again I dont want to create a controversy of press my views upon others but I again contacted my acquaintances yesterday and they confirmed that they have limited contracts and have the same NE §19. This is the case in Munich.

I read the rules again and nowhere is it stated that one should have unlimited job:

http://bundesrecht.juris.de/aufenthg_2004/__9.html

(2) Einem Ausländer ist die Niederlassungserlaubnis ZU ERTEILEN (you will get it), wenn
1.er seit fünf Jahren die Aufenthaltserlaubnis besitzt,
2.sein Lebensunterhalt gesichert ist (SUBSISTENCE IS SAFE)

http://bundesrecht.juris.de/aufenthg_2004/__19.html

(1) Einem hoch qualifizierten Ausländer kann in besonderen Fällen eine Niederlassungserlaubnis erteilt werden, wenn die Bundesagentur für Arbeit nach § 39 zugestimmt hat oder durch Rechtsverordnung nach § 42 oder zwischenstaatliche Vereinbarung bestimmt ist, dass die Niederlassungserlaubnis ohne Zustimmung der Bundesagentur für Arbeit nach § 39 erteilt werden kann und die Annahme gerechtfertigt ist, dass die Integration in die Lebensverhältnisse der Bundesrepublik Deutschland und die SICHERUNG DES LEBENUNTERHALTS ohne staatliche Hilfe gewährleistet sind. Die Landesregierung kann bestimmen, dass die Erteilung der Niederlassungserlaubnis nach Satz 1 der Zustimmung der obersten Landesbehörde oder einer von ihr bestimmten Stelle bedarf.

and this one defines what subsistence is.

http://bundesrecht.juris.de/aufenthg_2004/__9c.html

It says a regular income and nothing more.
-----------------------------

Again the idea is not to press my view but to make people aware what is in the law. I would suggest that in these cases, one should take a lawyer if you cant speak fluent German because then the lawyer can argue on your behalf.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
04.11.09 11:31 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi jivankitalaash,

we all know that it is not stated in the law that unlimited job contract is not mandatory. Everyone knows but statistically we have seen very rarely in the past that unlimited permit was issued.

Now I must admit that I was very surprised that your friends got NE $19 with limited contracts. I am jealous, honestly speaking. I have got a lot of trouble with my unlimited contract and a lot of qualifications..

Just curiosty: How much work experience do your acquaintances have? In which industry? Private sector? Do they speak German? Did they get this permit through lawyer/company support? Did they study Germany before?

If you can write these things (not too private but headlines) that would be phantastic and helpful for everyone.

Many thanks for your posts!!

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
05.11.09 10:07 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Klenze,

Well I will give all these details but I personally think that we cannot draw inference from any of them why he got it and the others didnt.

The guy didnt study in Germany rather in UK, joined a financial institution directly after his advanced managementdegree from the UK and was helped to get the NE by his company's relocation agency. I am not sure how much work experience but from his age I can assume not more than 4-5 years.

This all was in Munich. Contrary to what many people think, Munich is actually quite relaxed with visas, workpermits, etc. I have been living in Germany for more than six years now. Came as a student and then started working and speak (fluent) German and have never had problems with visas, NE etc in Munich. The time in Berlin waa a horror in comparison in terms of work-permit.

In terms of citizenship, BW, Bayern and Sachsen are tough becuase of problems in them accepting our study times.

One very informative forum is www.info4alien.de if you didnt know it where all rules are listed. Here people working in Ausländerbehörde, Einbürgerungsbehörde answer your questions on a voluntary basis. Is in German though.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
05.11.09 10:20 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Thank you very much for your information. I know info4alien. I am an active user there for a long time, thank you for that though.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
27.11.09 20:41 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi all,

Does wife and kid automatically get NE, when husband gets NE through this highly qualified option?
Regards,
Dev
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
27.11.09 20:56 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi all,

Does wife and kid automatically get NE, when husband gets NE through this highly qualified option?


No. NE of this kind if finally still yet another NE. The wife of the person who got NE doesn't get NE automatically. She must fill the same condition has her husband to get NE (5 year, high qualification etc etc), as though they were not married. The only advantage she has is that she can stay in Germany through his husband.

Klenze17
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
21.04.10 20:56 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi All,

I just read through all 21 pages of your discussion thread... really interesting.

My question is what is the annual salary requirement now? I was told by someone at the Auslanderamt that its 6400 Euro per month netto, which seems really outrageous.

Second question would be is it netto or brutto? Can I attach a document or reference to "direct" the officers that its brutto and not netto?

Regards...
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
16.09.10 17:28 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hello All
The new limit for NE under this scheme is 66000 Euro brutto for 2010.
I came to know about this for a fact at the Auslaenderamt in frankfurt.
Thought it would be useful to all here ..

Cheers,
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
20.09.10 21:06 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Dear all,

I have a short question :

If i get NE based on new rule. Is i am applicable for Daueraufenthalt EG ?.

Thanks for the reply in advance.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
07.10.10 21:20 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi johndebot,

Your question have been answered here and at Info4Alien several times. The answer is NO.

I also have a NE wrt §19 and I also could not get this. You must spend 5 years in Germany (or better speaking, 60 months of work) to get Daueraufenthalt-EG, no matter if you have a NE or not (even NE wrt §19 doesn't work). At the time of application you must have a non-terminated full-time job contract.

Klenze17.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
28.06.11 04:19 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi All,

I see that this is the most recent/active forum discussing NE. Though my below questions might deviate a little bit from NE hopefully you wouldn't mind answering them.

I am being offered a specialist position in south germany & salary is expectd >63,000K euros. I am currently living and working here in denmark and was very positively surprised to know that there is a possibility to recieve " Permanent Residency"in germany from day one if you fall in highly skilled category with salary > 63000 Eur/yr

After a few hours of reading different topics sub topics and comments relating to NE,BE,EG on this website,I must say that there are still some un answered questions. Especially due to the fact that these abbrevations ( BE,EG,NE etc) are totally new for me and there seems to be more type of work&residence permits in Germany than what we have here in denmark ( there is basically a limited work permit or unlimited/Permanent residency)

COuld you pls kindly help me understand.

i) What means NE ? is it equalent to so called Permanent Residency in other EU countries ?

ii) Apparently germany also issues "Permanent Resident Permits" ( After 5 yrs of work and stay)
Is there any difference between permanent residency permit & NE in terms of validity etc?

iii) What is EG and BE ? What are the key difference between these BE,EG and NE versions ?

Thank you and looking forward for your kind replies.

Regards,
Ram
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
28.06.11 23:21 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi Klenze,
Thanks for all the inputs on this topic. I am moving to Germany from USA, starting october as I have got a job as a manager in Bayer in NRW. It looks like the Aliens department at Cologne have mentioned my HR department that I am eligible for NE under $19(salary and all other conditions match). I will be travelling with my wife to germany and she is also a well qualified person with Engg, MS and MBA to her credit.
I wanted to know whether my wife will get work permit rights similar to mine as I can see that NE under $19 is not bound to a company at all. PLease let me know your thoughts as I am not able to find clear cut replies on this topic as there are very few people under NE $19. Or, if you could let me know where to see information relevant to this, it will be a great help
Thanks
Sud P
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
29.07.11 00:43 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
I go to the auslandbehoer in Munich, they ask me to provide the below document:
- Nachweis ueber Berufserfahrung
because as I learn from thread, this should be provided by 3rd part.
where should I got this "Nachweis".
should HR from company provide this and write that I am highly qualified?

do you have any suggestiong?
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
02.08.11 18:56 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
@erteilung

"where should I got this "Nachweis". should HR from company provide this and write that I am highly qualified?" --> resume with recommandation letters from the companies you were in... That's as simple as that.

D.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
07.08.11 02:46 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi everybody and the specialist guys in here!

Please help me with a few doubts.

I am in germany for more than 5 years now and in feb this year i got NE - 9 . My salary in Feb was more than 70K per annum though it was lesser when i had come in germany.

Frankly it did not mattered to me at that time wether they give me NE -9 or NE -19 ( Highly skilled). I used to think it doesnt makes a difference either ways u get a right to permanent residency.

Well i plan to get married this decemeber and bring along my wife , i had this impression from various friends that if one has NE then his spouse is exempted from the essential german language A1 requirements while applying for visa for family reunion .

But recently i came across this flier which clearly states that only the spouses of NE-19 holders (highly skilled man power ) are exempted from showing the neccessaray A1 level german skills.

(http://www.german-business-portal.info/GBP/Redaktion/en/PDF/immigration-law-for-spouses-knowledge-of-german,property=pdf,bereich=gbp,sprache=en,rwb=true.pdf)

1. Now i am confused about this NE-9 or NE-19.
Should i get it changed . Are there someadvantages to NE-19 in longterm . If yes what are the advantages and how to get it changed now.

In any case my plan for my wife was to learn german after joining me in here .Also she is as well an engineer like me , working in US although she is an indian citizen .

2. What should we take care about that she can get a visa for being able to work here as well.

looking forward to your replies.
regards
Sikan
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
16.08.11 16:35 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Dear All,

Very interesting discussion. I have a little bit different Scenario.

I am currently working in Germany with a beschränkte Arbeitserlaubnis and got a new job offer that fills all the requirements to apply for Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte nach §19 Abs.2.

I was there today in Munich to apply for it and the guy was a idiot! At first he told me I can't get it as this would be a new job and the once he agreed to take my application but told me he is going to write to Arbeitsamt for "Interneaufnahme", even after I sopke about Aufenthaltrecht § 3.

The highlight was the guy I meet last week explained me about required documents and told he just will send the application to his boss and if he says yes, thats it!

I am going to follow up in 2 weeks i.e, 1st week of September as I need to start working at my new employer from 1st October. I am a litte bit worried what this idiot will make out of it.

Kindly advice how to proceed!

Thanks, Vamsi
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
11.04.12 17:25 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hi all,

Nice and Useful thread.. emoticon

Currently, I work in munich with "unselbständige Beschäftigung" visa (bounded to my company). Now i got a new job with >67,200 Euros salary. After going through this thread fully, i came to know that I'm eligible for § 19 Niederlassungserlaubnis für Hochqualifizierte. I got the offer letter from the new company. Also I have given notice in my current company.

I have follwing questions:
1. Can i goto ausländerbehörde in München and apply for this NE § 19 visa?
1a. if YES, What all documents should i take with me?
1b. how long does it take to process this visa?

or
1a. if NO, then Can you please tell me the actual procedure to get this visa?


Thanks a lot in advance.

Please reply as early as possible.

Awaiting for ur reply...
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
11.04.12 18:24 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hallo,

The salary requirement this year is 67200 which is exactly yours. Please take care that requirement is from basic salary which means that it should not include bonus or other parts..

also you will need a recommandation from your company that you are highly qualified and your skills are importants for Germany ..and will be helpful if you have a management position...
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
11.04.12 18:58 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
Hallo ,

@Punar: Thanks a lot for your immediate reply.

My salary will be 67,500Euros without any bonuses.
Also I'll try to get recommendation letter from my new company.

Is that all???
Do i need any other documents from my old/new company?

Thanks alot again.
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
12.04.12 14:53 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
This should be a good start to apply...
It depends upon the AMT, sometime they have a very strict criterion and definition of highly qualified...
What also help is to have good german skills as in my case I had to negotiate a lot with them to agree and it was all in German...obviously they will check with Police records and maybe someother checks...

All the best..
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Re: NE for highly skilled, anual salary >63000 Euro
Antwort
23.04.12 13:31 als Antwort auf Abu Ismail.
I went to the visa office last week.

they asked me to bring
1. Stellen Beschreibung.
2. Arbeitsvertrag
3. Hochschulzeugnis
4. Lebenslauf
5. Bestätigung des Arbeitgebers über besondere berufserfahrung und seine herausgehobene Position

I took all these documents and went today.

i totally got
2 yrs exp in home country
18 months exp while doing master Degree(6months parttime, 6 months internship, 6 months Master Thesis - All in Continental Gmbh).
18 months exp after finishing Master Degree in a company.


They are fine with all the other Docs.
But for the "besondere berufserfahrung" they will consider only the Exp after Master Degree. its its only 18 months. so they rejected my Request for NE§19.

He asked me to join the new company and then come back after 1 yr. So they can consider.
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