Hier are few important things from it.
Let's try to understand it.

§ 8 Verlängerung der Aufenthaltserlaubnis
(1) Auf die Verlängerung der Aufenthaltserlaubnis
finden dieselben Vorschriften Anwendung wie
auf die Erteilung.
(2) Die Aufenthaltserlaubnis kann in der Regel
nicht verlängert werden, wenn die zuständige Behörde
dies bei einem seiner Zweckbestimmung nach
nur vorübergehenden Aufenthalt bei der Erteilung
oder der zuletzt erfolgten Verlängerung der Aufenthaltserlaubnis
ausgeschlossen hat.

So, here is nothing bad. Our Visa is for only 5 years but nobody wrote that it can not be extended. So it can be verlängert.


§ 9 Niederlassungserlaubnis
(2) Einem Ausländer ist die Niederlassungserlaubnis
zu erteilen, wenn
1. er seit fünf Jahren die Aufenthaltserlaubnis besitzt,
2. sein Lebensunterhalt gesichert ist,
3. er mindestens 60 Monate Pflichtbeiträge oder
freiwillige Beiträge zur gesetzlichen Rentenversicherung
geleistet hat oder Aufwendungen für
einen Anspruch auf vergleichbare Leistungen einer
Versicherungs- oder Versorgungseinrichtung
oder eines Versicherungsunternehmens nachweist;
berufliche Ausfallzeiten auf Grund von
Kinderbetreuung oder häuslicher Pflege werden
entsprechend angerechnet,

5. ihm die Beschäftigung erlaubt ist, sofern er Arbeitnehmer
ist,
6. er im Besitz der sonstigen für eine dauernde
Ausübung seiner Erwerbstätigkeit erforderlichen
Erlaubnisse ist,

These points 5 and 6 are not clear to me.
Is this same as before so that we need Arbeitsgenehmigung from Arbeitsamt to get PR?
But they said that we should get everything from one place in Ausländersamt.

If it is so, than there is only posibility to extend Visa according to § 8 and after some time to request PR according to § 9.

I hope it will be PR immidiately after 5 years but I don't understand this points 5 and 6.
Anyone knows better?

Hi,
Can anyone tell :
1. What will happen if after 5 years, a GC has no job. Will he/she get PR?
2. What for those GCs who have 80K salary. Can they get PR immediately.. or it is valid only for the NEWCOMERS.
3. For PR do we need unlimited job contract, or the short term also.

regards!

"So, here is nothing bad. Our Visa is for only 5 years but nobody wrote that it can not be extended. So it can be verlängert."

It depends on how you understand IT-AAV. But i know how IT-AAV is understood by officials: after five years no prolongation is possible. otherwise why all those talks (including mass media) that GCs should leave the country after 5 years without new immigration law?

SPD plays political games, and you eagerly swallow the bait *lol* if in the next year Schröder will have to leave his position ... and even if he will not have to - politician today says one, tomorrow completely another; and §8 of this new law + IT-AAV can be very easily made a reason why GCs should leave the country

until you have PR firmly in hands, it's better not to think that you will get it ;)

"§ 9 Niederlassungserlaubnis"

Here nothing is new - they just combined corresponding part of SGB III (which talks about unlimited work permit) with corresponding part of AuslG (which talks about unlimited residence permit of type "unbefristete Aufenthaltserlaubnis")

what is new, they have excluded unlimited residence permit of type "Aufenthaltsberechtigung". which means: unless you are a Jew, refugee, married on german girl, was born in Germany - you will never have a possibility to get a social aid without a risk to be thrown out from Germany. if you will not get a german citizenship, of course, and i guess that will become more problematic as well.

"1. What will happen if after 5 years, a GC has no job. Will he/she get PR?"

i.d.R. (that is, if he doesn't remember suddenly that he is a Jew or something like that) no.

"2. What for those GCs who have 80K salary. Can they get PR immediately.. or it is valid only for the NEWCOMERS."

if their profession is needed on a market (there is a corresponding regulation), yes. even if officials refuse to give it to him because he is already in Germany, he always can leave the country, get a new entry visa, come here again and get it as a newcomer.

"3. For PR do we need unlimited job contract, or the short term also."

i guess you would need i.d.R. an unlimited job contract, because of these:

"2. sein Lebensunterhalt gesichert ist"
"6. er im Besitz der sonstigen für eine dauernde Ausübung seiner Erwerbstätigkeit erforderlichen Erlaubnisse ist"

I don't get it..as I see it it is clear that after 5 years a green-cardler that worked the full 5 years will receive a Niederlassungserlaubnis. I think at least 50% of us is in this category. The point 6 sais that you need to have the calification do that job..ot at least I think it sais thatl

nope. it says that you need to have all necessary permits in order to work. if you work as an IT-professional, it's only a work permit. for other professions, however, you need to have some other permits/licenses as well ;)

trusday:
Here nothing is new - they just combined corresponding part of SGB III (which talks about unlimited work permit) with corresponding part of AuslG (which talks about unlimited residence permit of type "unbefristete Aufenthaltserlaubnis"

is this again egg and chick situation or not
if we need unlimited work permit to get PR and
we don't get PR without unlimited work permit than it is kick in the ass after 5 years
acctually that way none could get PR so I don't believe it.
beside they said that we can do all at ausländeramt



trusday:
what is new, they have excluded unlimited residence permit of type "Aufenthaltsberechtigung". which means: unless you are a Jew, refugee, married on german girl, was born in Germany - you will never have a possibility to get a social aid without a risk to be thrown out from Germany. if you will not get a german citizenship, of course, and i guess that will become more problematic as well.

nope
Aufenthaltsberechtigung will be Niederlassungserlaubniß and you don't need to take citizenship for it

Hi all,
What still wonders me is following:

After working 5 years, will we be thrown out if our contract finished?? Or if after 5 years, I have still one year contract valid, do I get the PR?? As I understood (and hope so), that if you have a job after the 5 years, you will get the PR??
Any comments or info? Is the draft of the law out and final?
Thanks
Zash

Hi All,

"is this again egg and chick situation or not if we need unlimited work permit to get PR ..."

lol that what i said, there will be no unlimited work permits, but requirements for one will be part of requirements for getting a Niederlassungserlaubnis

"nope Aufenthaltsberechtigung will be Niederlassungserlaubniß and you don't need to take citizenship for it"

nope. Niederlassungserlaubnis = unbefristete Aufenthaltserlaubnis. difference between unbefristete Aufenthaltserlaubnis and Aufenthaltsberechtigung is very well described in §48 AuslG, "Besonderer Ausweisungsschutz":

(1) Ein Ausländer, der
1. eine Aufenthaltsberechtigung besitzt,
... (Jews, born in Germany with unbefristete Aufenthaltserlaubnis, married on German girls, refugees)

kann nur aus schwerwiegenden Gründen der öffentlichen Sicherheit und Ordnung ausgewiesen werden. Schwerwiegende Gründe der öffentlichen Sicherheit und Ordnung liegen in der Regel in den Fällen des § 47 Abs. 1 vor.

Hi all,
Any ideas when this new low will come to power?
cheers, Eks

Hi All,

From a GC perspective(with a salary less than 80K), new law will not make our situation neither better, nor worse ? correct ?
I am convinced that it will not make the GC situation better but I am fearing that it might even make the situation worse than the current situation with the current law. (concerning duration of employment benefits for foreigners, newly introduced residence permit types etc..)

Regards

Lacrima

Any ideas when this new low will come to power?
cheers, Eks

1.1.05 not certain but very very possible

guys, any comments to what I asked above???

Thanks
Zash

lacrima:
From a GC perspective(with a salary less than 80K), new law will not make our situation neither better, nor worse ? correct ?
I am convinced that it will not make the GC situation better but I am fearing that it might even make the situation worse than the current situation with the current law.

it can not be worse
80k is only important if you want PR at once
if you have 5 years in De than you are in
only problem are these 5 and 6 points
if it is not chicken egg thing, and I believe it isn't than it is very god

trusday:
ope. Niederlassungserlaubnis = unbefristete Aufenthaltserlaubnis. difference between unbefristete Aufenthaltserlaubnis and Aufenthaltsberechtigung is very well described in §48 AuslG, "Besonderer Ausweisungsschutz":


die Niederlassungserlaubnis, die Du ansprichst, ist ein höherer Aufenthaltstitel als die unbefristete AE. Sie entspricht der Aufenthaltsberechtigung.

ZuwG ist besser als AuslG,
da es eine neue Rechtsgrundlage (kein Anspruch) zum
ständigen Aufenthalt in D gibt, nämlich eine
sozialversicherungpflictige Tätigkeit in Deutschland,
Hat man eine solche gefunden, muss nur die Bundesanstalt für Arbeit das gutheissen; das wird dann später wohl ein
formalisiertes Verfahren, während nach der jetzigen
Praxis in Einzeluntersuchung die IHK/Arbeitsamt etc
festellen muss, ob der Arbeitgeber wirklich einen Ausländer
braucht oder es auch ein Deutscher tun würde, der sich dann aber nicht findet und es gibt keinen zusätzlichen Beitragszahler.

http://www.faz.com/IN/INtemplates/eFAZ/
docmain.asp?rub={B1311FCC-FBFB-11D2
-B228-00105A9CAF88}&doc={FD06B532-
FB33-453A-879A-2D6FF2544299}

I am not sure whether you guys gone through this link or not.. but posted just for your info...

VSK

"I am convinced that it will not make the GC situation better but I am fearing that it might even make the situation worse than the current situation with the current law. (concerning duration of employment benefits for foreigners, newly introduced residence permit types etc..)"

I will study differences when there will be a final version of new law accepted by Bundestag and Bundesrat. Now i see that it is not worth my time, just because the law can be changed over and over again

"das wird dann später wohl ein
formalisiertes Verfahren, während nach der jetzigen
Praxis in Einzeluntersuchung die IHK/Arbeitsamt etc
festellen muss, ob der Arbeitgeber wirklich einen Ausländer
braucht oder es auch ein Deutscher tun würde, der sich dann aber nicht findet und es gibt keinen zusätzlichen Beitragszahler."

lol that's exactly what is currently done when it is decided whether a foreigner can get a work and residence permits accordingly to 5.2. AAV or not ;)


btw found a beatiful piece of german law system. here it is:

HAuslG § 22
Einem heimatlosen Ausländer darf die Rückkehr in seine Heimat oder die Auswanderung nicht versagt werden.

please explain me how a person without a home country (which was recognized by german officials) can go back to his home country? :o

http://www.bmi.bund.de/Anlage25594/Einzelheiten_des_Zuwanderungsgesetzes.pdf
Bisheriges doppeltes Genehmigungsverfahren (Arbeit/Aufenthalt) wird durch ein internes Zustimmungsverfahren ersetzt. Die Arbeitsgenehmigung wird in einem Akt mit der Aufenthaltserlaubnis von der Ausländerbe-hörde erteilt, sofern die Arbeitsverwaltung intern zugestimmt hat (one-stop-government).

For those who get 80K you are all great guys and I think as a white collar job it is highly paid salary in Germany and I think this asset of yours should benefit you anyway atleast the person who is dealing your immigration papers should be happy about it and big plus point to you so don't worry :-)

Why do you guys go through the law thoroughly because even you have those defined it is is again the same old story on how you earn your points when you supply your official documents to the Immigration officer. Magic magic!! depends on the place & person so if someone have good knowledge then later when the law is in palce make a check list and help applicants start collecting their documents but the prior thing should be your German language.

I wish to discuss about the requirements when law comes to public rather than poking paragraphs.