Hi all

I guess today will be approved the first stage of the immigration law.

9th July will be the day the law will be approved by Bundesrat.

Minister Schilly yesterday was reaaaaly happy for that, I could point "euforic".

But two things will worried me:

1- I read the manuscript in the official page and those words I have stressed I heard from Schilly "Engineers and Highly qualified proffesionals" where condimented with three concerning words: "Engineers and Highly qualified proffesionals VERY WELL PAYED", so we are out of that category.

2- Anybody knows what the heck has been reformed in the law of Arbeitslosengeld? I saw yesterday in TV they won´t pay money anymore (as anybody told here, maybe Lacrima or Trusday?), most of the help will be Arbeitslosenhilfe.

Please, anybody knows more about two important subjects, reply.

Thanks and regards

YO

all your questions are answerd
do a search in forum

Hello YO,
Your first question, I am personally convinced from the very first moment I saw the new law that new Highly Qualified definition excludes the current GCs. We have discussed this already in the forum in detail and let's see if they can do smt with "Verordnung" otherwise current GCs are simple excluded from Highly Qualified definition.

Your second question's answer is here:

http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/help_needed/arbeitslosengeld_with_varying_salary_during_last_12_months

Regards

Lacrima

Hi Lacrima

Thanks for your response.

To DvD "Search the Forum". Hey man, I always do that. I´m in this forum since long time. I know how this works.

I don´t think this subject was already fully discused. The table I saw yesterday night in N24 was:

"Arbeitslosengeld vor Arbeits*reform: 1745

Arbeitslosengeld nach Arbeits*reform: 384"

And the table continues with the sum provided by Arbeitslosenhilfe.
By the way, Arbeitslosenhilfe is not all money. Is your rent get payed, stamps for food, credentian to get food free from some churches and so on.

This subject was under discussion last night, I don´t think it was discussed.

Last weeks we (or you) have expended more time discussing personal and very very punctual cases than general cases. I was only trying to discuss something more general and problematic for our (I hope no) future.

Regards

YO

I should also emphasis here that politicians are actually doing a
very good job for the advertising regarding the "zuwanderungsgesetz". If you
read the newspapers and watch the TV, you may think that there are
some big revolutions going on in the area of Immigration but actually it is NOT true.

Even one of the state controlled German TV channel interviewed a GC holder
in the news and asked him whether he was happy because the new law
will make the life easier for him.. bla.. bla.. I mean isnt it disinformation
and dont they owe us a correction in their news after this "not very well"
researched wrong information which they broadcasted to all Germany?

The change for students who have german degree is a BIG frustration. Most
people will not be able to take advantage of it but it is still being
advertised as a big CHANGE in the immigration law.

The change for highly qualified people is a BIG frustration. Most people
will not be able to take advantage of it either. Still big announcements,
advertisements.. etc..

Read people's frustrations regarding the new law here(in German):

http://www.xonder.at/cgi-bin/yabbserver/foren/F_0134/YaBB.cgi?board=zuw

I mean it is ok, If they think these changes are enough but I think it
is not ETHICALLY correct to exaggerate that much and to give the wrong impression
in the public that they have done a BIG revolution.

Regards

Lacrima

YO,
As far as I understand it, they are NOT touching "Arbeitslosengeld" here.
What they are doing is, to unify the Arbeitslosenhilfe and Sozialhilfe. Maybe you are confused with the terms "Arbeitslosengeld" and "Arbeitslosenhilfe"

I dont think this may effect GCs because GC is not a german citizen and GC is supposed to leave the country after his "Arbeitslosengeld" payment finishes. This is exactly the point where you start to receive "Arbeitslosenhilfe" and in this context, this change should be irrelevant to us GCs.

Regards

Lacrima

Hi YO,

how are you? I hope fine!

2 short answers: The big difference between highly qualified persons (who ever this will be) and other, qualified persons will be, that the first categorie can apply for a 'Niederlassungserlaubnis', which is unlimited, at the beginning of their time in Germany, and the other, like a 'normal GC' can do so after 5 years. So there is no problem for GCs, as long as they are employed, because they have been here already 5 years, when their working permission runs out.

Secondly: 'Arbeitslosengeld 2' is for so called 'Langzeitarbeitslose', who had been without work for more than 12 month. Usually an IT expert finds a new job in 3 - 5 month. (I know there are exceptions)

And the 'Arbeitsmarktreform' is necessary, because our social system is running out of money :-(

The new law will come into effect on the 1st of January 05 and I guess within the next days, we will get the complete text of it.

Viele Grüße nach Bavaria
Detlef

OK!. That was so clear!. Even a dumb like me can undestand when the explanations are clear and simple. Thanks to Lacrima and Detleff.

I hope also that in the next days the complete text runs to publicity, but also we will have to wait till the regulation of the law isn´t it?

Interest link you sent Lacrima. I was out of this site since long time, interesant discussion and some familiar names there. Thanks

Regards

YO

@Detlef

Immigration

We provide information about the new German Immigration Law and, as soon as the law has come into effect, we will provide 'Immigration Services'.

This branch of your business idea has only a future if there is an immigration law that deserves its name.

In this respect it can be well understood why you are thinking positive 24 hours a day.

But here are some facts:


http://www.bmi.bund.de/Annex/de_25594/Einzelheiten_des_Zuwanderungsgesetzes.pdf

Berlin, 18.06.2004
Einzelheiten des Zuwanderungsgesetzes

2. Arbeitsmigration:

Beibehaltung des Anwerbestopps für Nicht- und Geringqualifizierte.

Beibehaltung des Anwerbestopps auch für Qualifizierte mit Ausnahmeregelung: Erteilung einer Arbeitserlaubnis im begründeten Einzelfall, wenn öffentliches Interesse an Beschäftigung besteht.

Für Hochqualifizierte wird die Gewährung eines Daueraufenthalts von Anfang an vorgesehen, sie können sofort eine Niederlassungserlaubnis erhalten. Mit- oder nachziehende Familienangehörige sind zur Ausübung einer Erwerbstätigkeit berechtigt.

Wer fällt unter Hochqualifizierte:

1.Wissenschaftler mit besonderen fachlichen Kenntnissen,
2. Lehrpersonen in herausgehobener Funktion oder wissenschaftliche Mitarbeiter in herausgehobener Funktion oder
3. Spezialisten und leitende Angestellte mit besonderer Berufserfahrung, die ein Gehalt in Höhe von mindestens dem Doppelten der Beitragsbemessungsgrenze der gesetzlichen Krankenversicherung erhalten.

http://www.beitragsbemessungsgrenze.com/
Beitragsbemessungsgrenze 2004
Die Beitragsbemessungsgrenze in der Krankenversicherung beträgt 2004: 41.850 € p.a. bzw. 3.487,50 € monatlich.

Spezialisten und leitende Angestellte müssen demzufolge ein Mindest-Jahreseinkommen von zur Zeit ca. 83.700 € verdienen.

Normale hoch qualifizierte ausländische Fachkräfte der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie habe ein solches Jahreseinkommen nicht.

Fact is that most of the Green Card holders will not fit into the definition for high qualified personnel because most of the Green Card holders do not earn an annual salary of 83.700 €.

Of course Green Card holders will fit into the definition for qualified personnel. So what is the problem?

The problem is that there will be a recruiting stop for qualified personnel (Beibehaltung des Anwerbestopps auch für Qualifizierte) with the exception that a working permission can be (not "must be") offered to individuals if there is a public interest.

I would not call this an automatic process for Green Card holders to become permanent residents especially if you keep in mind that most of the working permissions of Green Card holders will expire together with their Green Card. That means that they have to apply for a new working permission in the face of a recruiting stop.

I would not call this an automatic process for Green Card holders to become permanent residents.

We will talk each other again when the new law is finally out. But things do not look so good.

"2- Anybody knows what the heck has been reformed in the law of Arbeitslosengeld?"

did it go through a Bundestag already? the idea was to combine social aid with "Arbeitslosenhilfe" and call it "Arbeitslosengeld II", which of course will be much less money than "Arbeitslosenhilfe" for those who had good salaries while working. for those who did not earn much or have big families it can even be more money *lol*

another thing is that any job will be reasonable for unemployed (while now the jobs with salaries less than unemployment benefit are not reasonable); therefore for example it would be ok to give an engineer a job of cleaning lady. of course, it does not touch GCs as they can not get a work permit for non-IT job positions, so you do not have to worry here ;)

however if this "Arbeitslosengeld II" is treated as a social aid when it comes to deportation, foreigners can get problems.

the reform was supposed to come into force from 1.1.2005.

"I dont think this may effect GCs because GC is not a german citizen and GC is supposed to leave the country after his "Arbeitslosengeld" payment finishes."

that's not true considering that "Arbeitslosenhilfe" is not a social aid and therefore is no reason for a deportation. however, foreigners usually should not have any valid residence permit when it comes to "Arbeitslosenhilfe"; there are exceptions though.

Arbeitslosengeld II = social aid (Sozialhilfe).

Arbeitslosengeld II is paid by taxes. With rare exceptions foreigners are not allowed to receive Arbeitslosengeld II.

Arbeitslosengeld is paid from the money that employees pay to the unemployment insurance. Since employed foreigners also pay into this unemployment insurance they are allowed to receive Arbeitslosengeld for a certain time if they become unemployed. Receiving Arbeitslosengeld is not a reason for deportation of foreigners.

If a foreigner receives Arbeitslosengeld II this is a reason for deportation.

"Arbeitslosengeld II = social aid (Sozialhilfe)."
"If a foreigner receives Arbeitslosengeld II this is a reason for deportation."

Arbeitslosenhilfe is paid from taxes as well, still it's no reason for deportation accordingly to AuslG-VwV. let's wait for VwV to ZuwG, then it will become clear whether something needs to be done here.

btw, "Antrag auf Bewilligung der Processkostenhilfe" by AuslG-VwV is treated in the same way as an application for a social aid and therefore is a reason for deportation. just for information, probably it will be useful to know that ;)