Hi,

Yesterday I have been to the Ausländerbehörde to ask what the new procedure (acc. to new law) to change job, to be more precise, to change company while doing a very similar job. I expected that they will tell me to come next week when the new law will be effective, but this was not the case. I was told that the procedure is completely different and the lady there gave me a form (simpler and samller than what I got one month ago when I asked the same question). I will try to write down my first practical experience:

1. The only interface will be with AB, no need to go to AA.
2. We will not need to go to AA but this doesn't mean they are completely out of the loop, the AB will stay get AA permission via internal comms.
3. The new aufenhaltserlaubnis will be RP and WP at the same time.

I didn't get an answer about the salary limit for Hochqualifiziert.
I got a strange answer when I asked if I take benifit of the new rule of no employment check against DE/EU if I worked more than 3 years in DE, they told me this is not valid in case of changing jobs, sounds strange to me!!!
Next week I will be getting my new company to fill the 2 pages form.

May be the info above is not new, I just tried to start a new thread which contains real experience doing things according to new law.

Sorry for the long post.

Regards,

W.

Hi !
This is interesting for me too.
So can one immediately work after getting this RP/WP. How long will one have to wait before he or she is able to work ?
I also went to ABH to learn more about this new law yesterday. They told me that they give this permit immediately (understandable since the auftenhalt depends upon your current employer).
But the most "important" question is
"CAN THE PERSON WORK IMMEDIATELY OR NOT ?"

--I got a strange answer when I asked if I take benifit of the new rule of no employment check against DE/EU if I worked more than 3 years in DE, they told me this is not valid in case of changing jobs, sounds strange to me!!!

VERY VERY GOOD IDEA TO OPEN THIS TOPIC
I also want to know how it will go.
I asume every ABH Beamter will do it differently.

First I think this Beamter oben is completely wrong. That about 3 years rule not valid when you change job is pure bullshit. You need new WP only when you change job. So whole rule is nothing according to him.
He is all wrong. After 3 years working in D or 4 y being in D you do not need ArbMarkt check or Prüfung (AMC or AMP).
BTW ACCORDING TO BeschV § 46 Abs 2. GC NEEDS NO AMC TO CHANGE JOB EVEN IF HE IS NOT 3 Y WORKING IN D.

Hi Wael,

Do u have a softcopy of the form which u got from ABH. Please send it to the following email address if u have it:
ptuladhar@gmx.net

HI Wael,

Is this the document that u got from ABH

http://www.arbeitsagentur.de/content/de_DE/bayern/843/importierter_inhalt/pdf/Formblatt_Auslaenderbeschaeftigung.pdf

Hi p_tuladhar41,

Sorry for this late reply. The link you have submitted contains a form which nearly identical to what I have got, the information is the same but just different way of organising the contents.

I have sent to you by email the form which I have, just in case you still want to see it.

W.

Hi people,

I got new job two days ago and went today to ABH (first I went to AA, but they sent me to ABH cause "procedure now is different and everything should be done by ABH"), there I got 1. docu filled with my personal data and data of my new employer and 2. docu - request for Zustimmung from AA.

I brought both docus personally to AA, because I was told that "it will be fastest way" (I should start working on Monday).
First it took us (my AA-Vermittler and me) some time and knocking on x doors to find out what to do, where to start and who is responsible person.
After finding right person, I got fro her 3. docu - form to be filled out by my new employer. When it is filled out - I should bring all 3 papers back to her, she has to do something with it and then all together goes to another person for ArbMarkt check.
I asked what happened with Übergangsregelung, meaning if I already have GC, no Arbeitsmarkt check anymore, and answer was that for new employer/new job Übergangsregelung can not be applied(!?) cause my current Arbeitserlaubnis is for another employer, and I want to switch to new one.
She also told me that it will take 1 - 3 weeks and that it is already clear that I cannot start working on Monday!!

What shell I do? Any experience, info or suggestion?

Hello opet_ja

How long have you been to Deutschland, if you are here for more that 3 years, you can use:

BeschVerfV vom 22.11.2004 §9 Abs. 1 Satz 1 Nr.1 gilt: „Die Zustimmung zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung kann ohne Prüfung nach § 39 Abs. 2 Satz 1 Nr. 1 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes Ausländern erteilt werden, die eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis besitzen und drei Jahre rechtmäßig eine versicherungspflichtige Beschäftigung im Bundesgebiet ausgeübt haben.“

Even if you have been here for less than 3 years, you should not have the AMC.

sun

HI All,

I have started a new job from 1.1.2005 and has been working with a green card for 3.8 yrs. I had a valid visa for the previous company till March 2006 but with company name on it, now the Aslndr Bhrd has just striked of the company name and placed my new company name on it charging 31 EURO and thats it, so I can work in the new company till march 2006 which is the end of my 5 yrs green card.

regards
jackal.

Jackal,

What documents did you need to present at the AB?

W.

@sun

I got today Zustimmung.
So, from the "first hand" (lady in AA responsible for Arbeitserlaubnis questions) it is like follows:
if 3+ years working in DE - NO AMC, if not - AMC even if you are GC.
My luck was that person responsible for AMC was reasonable and did it same day. Maybe it was helpful that the job was already published on internet job portals as well as at Arbeitsamt.
I got Zustimmung for next 3 years while my current GC expires in 2006.
In Zustimmung is written which job I will work at which company and where. I am wondering if all those restrictions are going to be written also in new Afuenthaltserlaubnis...
In that case there are several questions "what if" that I am afraid of.

"if 3+ years working in DE - NO AMC, if not - AMC even if you are GC."

I dont think what you are saying is correct. What about this here:

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/it_argv.html

§ 6 (3) Nach Erteilung der erstmaligen Arbeitserlaubnis können weitere Arbeitserlaubnisse UNABHÄNGIG von der Arbeitsmarktlage erteilt werden.

I believe this regulation is still valid. At least, it says it will be obsolete in Juli 2008.

§ 9 Inkrafttreten, Außerkrafttreten
Diese Verordnung tritt am 1. August 2000 in Kraft. Sie tritt am 31. Juli 2008 außer Kraft.



If this part of the law is not effective anymore(I believe that it still is) What about this part of the new law ?
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/beschv.html#46

§ 46 Übergangsregelungen
(2) Die einer IT-Fachkraft nach § 6 Abs. 2 der Verordnung über die Arbeitsgenehmigung für hoch qualifizierte Fachkräfte der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie erteilte befristete Arbeitserlaubnis gilt als UNBEFRISTETE ZUSTIMMUNG zum Aufenthaltstitel zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung fort.


Can't the responsible lady at AA read ?

Regards,

Lacrima

Lacrima: "Can't the responsible lady at AA read ?"

There is another problem on the horizon - some of them say now that it doesn't count in case of changing the job (employer, that is). What do they think - when does it count then? Only in case of extending the existing AE/AA on expiry? Go figure...

Lacrima I think IT-ArgV is not valid after 1.1.
I think it is writen in ZuwG.

But BeschV §46.2 is just enough because it says GC needs no AMP

Hi,
I also think that "no 3+ years working as GC - AMC" is not correct interpretation, but it is what AA person told me and how they do it at the moment in ffm.
She said that "erteilte befristete Arbeitserlaubnis gilt als UNBEFRISTETE ZUSTIMMUNG zum Aufenthaltstitel zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung fort" means no time limit for already existing Arbeitserlaubnis and since for new employer we need "new Arbeitserlaubnis" BZW Zustimmung - it does not apply in that case.
Same thing I asked today at ABH and I got same answer. Then I showed in ABH also how Mick answered the same question on info4alien and then I got explanation that law is new and that interpretations probably differ from one ABH/AA to another because Weisungen are still missing.
At the end, I got new Aufenthalterlaubnis for next 3 years (my Zustimmung has 3 years validity too) because blablatrucbla - it is simpler for them and for me because I am eligible for Niderlassungserlaubnis in 2006!!
Beside new Aufenthaltserlaubnis (§18 Aufenthg) there is again additional page saying: "Beschäftigung nur gemäß §27 Ziffer 1 BeschV erlaubt, als IT-Fachkraft bei der Fa. X. Die Aufenthalterlaubnis erlischt mit Beendigung dieser Beschäftigung."

But BeschV §46.2 is just enough because it says GC needs no AMP

yeah, but what should I do when officials have their own opinion about meaning of that paragraph. Killing me soooftlyyyy

mach nix
you'll get NE in short time and everything will be vergessen.

BTW NE can not be restricted in any way by no means

sorry for he/she
odakle si tocno?

It is not true for Anweisungen.
They are allready there.
For BeschV Anweisungen were there from begining and they were accepted together with BeschV,
and for AufenthG Anweisungen are allmost ready and on the net.

"yeah, but what should I do when officials have their own opinion about meaning of that paragraph"

You are right, this is not a nice situation. I see two options in your case.(I know that you have already managed to get your "Zustimmung" even with JMC, AMP but if you hadn't get it)

1-) Ask for speaking to a superior officer of the officer who claims that he/she is right. Explain to the superior person your argumentation and why you think it should be in the way you describe.(preferably in German

2-) If 1. option does not help. Ask for a written explanation of AA, why they think you should go through this JMC, AMP and then sue them.(Also tell them that you are planning to sue them after getting the written explanation, even this might help without going to court) If you can not get the job, because of AA delay. Sue also the officer personally for the financial damage that he/she causes because of his/her stupidity.

That would be the path that I would follow personally, in case I dont get the "Zustimmung" of AA when I change a job as a GC.

Regards,

Lacrima

HI Wael,

Luckily my company applied for a green card in december itself and got approval, and i had to show this zusicherung and the company cotract.

regards
Jackal.

offtopic:

@Dvd
komplicirano
bosanka koja je studirala i radila u zg prije dolaska u de

a jel,
i ja san studira i radija u zg prije dolaska u de
jedino nisan bosanka

Dear Friends,
I was a student of Master of Electrical Engineering schwerpunkt IT. I finished my master a couple of months ago and i started working in a company from the past three months as a Software Developer. The owner of the Company was from Iran. In the beginning he spoke very sweet and he said u will be paid 2000 Euros per month and I will have to work 50 hours in a week. But then later on i bargained with him and he settled for 45 hours a week. I went there because he said that ours is a very high-tech company and that i will get to learn a lot of things in the beginning and stuff like that. But later on to my surprise i was shocked to know that he was asking me to fit some screws. He was doing it thinking that this is just a small part. but later on it increased. But not only this he was asking people to come on saturdays and sundays also. And he was making people work even on German holidays. He was also harressing and abusing me.

The same thing was happening with another guy in the company in the last month. But he was bold and he said that he will not do any shit that he (irani) tells and so he fired him from the job.

I was also afraid that he will fire me from the job. So i took the initiative and gave him the resignation letter in the last week. Right from the beginning he was threatening on the basis of visa, that if i leave the company i will not have visa and stuff like that. This is actually his main strategy. He gets guys from asia and africa who need visa to stay here and then he pushes them to work more and more for less money.

So when i was leaving the company he was threatening me not to go otherwise he will tell the Arbeitsamt and Landratsamt and i will not have any visa and that they will send me out of germany. But the torture at his company was more than i can suffer. So left the company even though he threatened me about the visa.

And one more point. Two weeks ago i called the lady in the landratsamt anonymously about what will be my status about the visa if i leave the job and she told me that i will have to leave germany immediately. And she is a good friend of the secretary in the company. So when i left the company i think she immediately informed the landratsamt (actually to her friend) that i dont work with the company. And now yesterday i have received a letter from the landratsamt.
The Anmerkungen on my visa is § AufenthG 18.

Guys i am in deep trouble about all this. I am depressed and afraid because of this whole matter. Please tell me what to do.

Thanks in advance,
Prashant.