Hi everyone,

I plan to open an online trading company. I recently got the "EG" status on my passport and I think I should be able to open a business.

I am going to start really slow and I heard that the easiest and cheapest thing to do is start a GbH. Can someone tell me what the procedures are for opening a GbH? For example, where do I need to go, how much it costs and how long does it take to register the company?

Also, I want to do freelancing and contracting work (I am an engineer by profession). Can I do both these things (trading and freelance engineering) under a single GbH roof? What tax implications would something like this entail?

I would like to say that this website is a fantastic resource for expats like us. Keep up the good work!

-K

dude first get this straight --> its "Gmbh" and not "gbh"... and then look ahead
all the best.

Hi,

I guess -K means GbR, which is 'Gesellschaft bürgerlichen Rechts'. This is a so called 'Gesellschaftsform' if there are more than 1 person, who want to found a company together.

If you do something alone, you only need a 'Gewerbeanmeldung' and than you can do most of services. The name of your company is a 'Einzelfirma'.

I strongly warn you to found a GbR, because than you are responsible for all the mistakes your partner could do, even if you do not know about his activities.

Therefore people found a GmbH 'Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung', which means limited liability. But the German GmbH is oldfashioned, expansive and buerocratic, it is easier and cheaper to found a UK Limited, which has the same rights in Germany as a GmbH. This is because of European laws.

trust7 can found a UK Limited for you. Read our 'Services' section.

Whatever you do, I wish you good luck!
Detlef

Hi All,
Does anyone know, what is the difference when one founds a "GmbH" and so called "Ich-AG". If I work as a freelancer(Freiberuflich), which one do I need ?
How much does it cost to found a company for Freelancer ? any experience ?

Am I allowed to work as a normal employee(angestellte) when I have freelance licence ?

How doos the so called "mini-jobs" fit in the picture(400 Euro jobs) ? does one need to be freelancer to be able to do "mini-jobs" ?

I know, a lot of questions in one shot.. but as some GCs start to get EGs, it might also make sense to share our experiences in this area.

Regards,

Lacrima

Hi Lacrima,

I already answered some of your questions with my first message above. Here are some more answers...

A so called 'Ich-AG' is a Einzelfirma. AG is misleading, because usually an AG means 'Aktiengesellschaft', so call the people of Ich-AGs so, is a bit ironical ;-)

People who had been jobless for more than a year can ask the employmend office for finacial support with getting selfemployed.

Freelance, this is also misleading, because there are only tax consultants and lawyers for example, who get the so called 'Freiberuflich' status.

If you want to be a freelancer, you have to found a company or one says you are making yourself independant - sich selbständig machen.

This is very easy. You just go to the Gewerbeamt and declare what you are going to do as a selfemployed person, you pay about 32 Euro and that's it. The Gewerbeamt will tell your local tax office - Finanzamt about your company, and the Finanzamt will send you some forms to fill out and a tax number.

There are some branches where you need special licences, for example as a Real Estate broker, but as an IT specialist you can start from one day to the other.

You can be selfemployed and work as an employee at the same time, no problem. You just have to pay your taxes and nobody cares if you work 23 hours on 6 and a half days ;-)

Hope this helps a bit
Detlef

Hi Detlef,
Thanks a bunch. That really sheds a light to the dark side of the self-employment formalities.

Regards,

Lacrima

in short:
GmbH costs 25 000 Euro and you can only lose company assets (in case of bankrupcy).
Ich AG costs almost nothing but you can lose everything you have: money, houses, cars...

Wow, this clears a lot of things for me. I guess I am looking for an 'Einzelfirma'. What about custom clearance number? Is there such a thing? What ik I want to engage in importing goods?

Thanks

-K

"I am going to start really slow and I heard that the easiest and cheapest thing to do is start a GbH."

such thing as GbH does not exist in Germany, it's either GbR or GmbH.

in first case you need at least one partner

in second case you need to invest at least 25k EUR + will have to pay a "Körperschaftsteuer" additionally

why to do such things (i mean 2nd case)??

if you want to pay a "Körperschaftsteuer" and have 1 partner, register an english Ltd., investing 1 GBP will be sufficient.

if you don't want to pay a "Körperschaftssteuer" and do not have partners, register an offshore company, for example Belize IBC

there exist such thing as spanish SA, it's better than german GmbH as well. i would say that german GmbH is a worst possible choice in it's class *lol*

"Also, I want to do freelancing and contracting work (I am an engineer by profession). Can I do both these things (trading and freelance engineering) under a single GbH roof?"

If you only want to be a freelancer, you don't have to register any company at all. simply tell Finanzamt that you are a freelancer from xx.xx.xxxx, download a program for submitting USt (https://www.elster.de/elfo_home.php) and get working

"If you do something alone, you only need a 'Gewerbeanmeldung'"

Nope, in case of freelancing you don't need that. Unless you want to pay Gewerbesteuer of course

"Freelance, this is also misleading, because there are only tax consultants and lawyers for example, who get the so called 'Freiberuflich' status."

It mainly depends on local Finanzamt whether IT-Specialist will be recognized as a freelancer and therefore will be free from obligation to pay a Gewerbesteuer.

However there exists one decision of BFH now that tells in which case IT-Specialist is a freelancer. It is however not defined yet when IT-Specialist can not pretend to be a freelancer

"What about custom clearance number? Is there such a thing? What ik I want to engage in importing goods?"

You need to apply for USt.Nr., ask your Finanzamt to issue you one

Thanks - !