Here we have a whole lot of NE's and few might be considering a German citizenship after 2 years (5+2).Do VPMK lawyers will be helpful here also ..i also wanted to know if with a citizenship i would be free to work anywhere in the schengen countries or need a work permit then also.!!!!

5+2 is in case you made the integration courses, if not, it will be a 5+3.

VPMK will also help in this case, as they are also working in that area (all that is included in immigration topic: http://www.vpmk.de/schwerpunkte/vpmk_immigration_zuwanderungsrecht.html)

And yes, with an EU citizenship, you can work freely in any Schengen country and you won't need a WP for that, reason why I sometimes say that an EU citizenship is better than a US citizenship on that point.

D.

Hi Folks,

I can see that the issue to EU citizenship/US citizenship will once in a while be in the menu.
Having an EU Citizenship is good and being fluent(Good) in the different languages pending on your country of choice is excellent.

For US citizenship in this context; getting accustom to catalog of accents is sufficient if you possess English skill sufficient to effectively express yourself. ;-)!


---People usually have their standard of life and expectations with respect to where they live.These differences is partly among the reasons opinions diverge in this context----

@Nobody
It sounds good that i dnt need to go into the WP process ...plan to shift off to Uk in a few years and hency by that time will be done with the +2/+3 criteria ..since i am a NE now.
The whole HSMP ->UK thing is a bit time taking.
Do u think i need the integration course when i have already my "Zertifikat for Deutsch".

@stier

About the HSMP, it's not only time consuming, but also money consuming.

And about the integration courses, it's not only about language, it's also about some politics and history thing so I think you need it but can get it shortened, but as *I thnk*, you better ask them there.

In my case, I will wait for the +3 and go for it, Europ has still a lot to give, so I will take it the right way.

D.

You guys have to calculate also some time (6-12 months) for the dismissal from your current citizenship.. it is a must for getting the german one..(there are a few expcetional cases) and some countries really take their time till they give you the certificate of dismissal from their citizenship..

so the steps for getting the german citizenship looks like this:

-> Live 7 or 8 Years in Germany (Preferably on a working visa.. some states also accept student residence times )
-> Apply for the german citizenship(preferably one month before the 7 or 8 years is finished)
-> Go through the eligibility check and processing which takes some monts. (getting no state support, financially ok etc..)
-> Get the temporary certificate of german citizenship(not the citizenship itself)
-> Go to your country's embassy and apply for the dismissal from your current citizenship by showing the german citizenship certificate. (so that you wont be stateless when they dismiss you from your citizenship)
-> Wait another 6 months/1 year depending on the country of your origin. (Some even create problems, if you have some citizenship duties uncompleted in your home country.. like military service etc.)
-> Get the proof of the dismissal from your home country's citizenship.
-> Go to German authorities again with your dismissal proof and german citizenship certificate.
-> Go through the eligibility check and processing again which takes some months. Because they want to check again whether your financial conditions are still ok.
-> and finally hold the citizenship firmly in your hands.
-> Pray God that "La Fontane" and "linke Partei" does not get elected in the next elections, because he has the genuine idea of cancelling the german citizenship of the people who dont pay taxes in Germany.

In total, getting the german citizenship may vary from 7,5 years to 10 years including the processing time of the whole application and depending heavily on your home country.


Regards,

Lacrima

"Pray God that "La Fontane" and "linke Partei" does not get elected in the next elections, because he has the genuine idea of cancelling the german citizenship of the people who dont pay taxes in Germany.", I think this doesn't apply to German-born people, because I know some who don't pay taxes :-)

And in case he does, what will be the citizenship of those who have been cancelled theirs? Would really like to see that.

D.

Hi friends,

I was just wondering what the inspiration to get German Citizenship would be. Are you craving for the voting rights? Do you really want to take a visa whenever you want to visit your own homeland?

Well, as you might know me, I am not against Germany, or German system, I am thankful to this country.

But isnt NE more than sufficient? Dont you get all the rights you would have with a German passport?

Just throw some light....

-Fred

"Do you really want to take a visa whenever you want to visit your own homeland?", in mine, as soon as you change citizenship, you got a kinda everlasting NE for being a former citizen of the country, so no fear at that point ;-)

D.

But you will agree with me that even with a NE, you don't have sufficient freedom to do what you could have wanted (go and work in another EU country for example or go build a business somewhere else and stay there as long as necessary - as I would like to do soon - as you will loose your NE after 6 months so NE is really not the Panacea).

D.

@fred
In my case, my home country offers me a special status when I get a citizenship dismissal.
With this status(It is like a permanent residence card which doesnt expire), I can do almost everything as the other fellow citizens of my home country. (Buying property, inheriting property but the right of voting does not exist with that status which is not that bad, as I wont be living in my home country. People who live there should decide who should build the government.) I dont know, how the situation is in this regard in your home country.

Other than that, by getting the german citizenship you have the chance to work in all EU without workpermit and travelling to many other countries without visa.(which you can not achieve with NE) That is, I guess, more than getting a "voting right" in a country where you plan to settle down. If I am contributing to the wellfare of the country in which I am living, I surely have the right to get also smt out of it. (like citizenship) so.. why not ?

Regards,

Lacrima

ahh.. getting back your original citizenship is a piece of cake, in case you regret your decision in the future. (at least in my case..) so again.. why not ?

Lacrima

@Nobody:
For Indians like me, the issue of visa persists, unless Germany and India sign a dual-citizenship agreement (which will never happen!)

@lacrima:
Reg. voting, I was talking about your voting rights in GER as soon as you become a citizen.

One thing is sure. It all depends on where you want to settle down, and from which continent you come. So there is no unique answer to this, right?

-Fred

@nobody and Fred

as nobody mentions his reasons i guess fred we all have our own reasons ..if you think german NE is fine ..maybe its fine for you..
for me german citizenship is like gettin an automatic wp to work in Uk as i am pondering over to do so in next few years (to be precise in my future)..I also feel the love for my motherland wont diminish with a Passport stamp and change in cover.

@stier:

Are you sure about UK? I thought with a German passport you can just roam freely(and work) in the EU !

Germans can work in UK without a work-permit. That is for sure. UK is just not part of the Euro Zone and they are not part of the Schengen Aggrement.(which does not necessarilly effect the work permit issue for the citizens of the first 12 members of the EU in UK.)

Regards,

Lacrima

I like this question, "How does EU citizenship benefit you?" well most Indians will look after their future in India because India is poised to become major power in the world atleast in 2 to 3 decades so they probably will not want to give up their Indian citizenship. Definitely the citizenship question is one's own decision depending on the economic situation of their country respectively. The most imp. question for me is, where do you like to invest? Is your investment sound enough to sustain your life? How well are you connected to your home country and its people? How will you manage different cultures? How your children are going to profit by breaking away from their parents homeland? you see you can simply go on with the list. Finally, you need a good and careful plan before you make such big decisions. You need very much to look after the relationship between the new and old country of citizenship.

Think before you leap.

Germans can surely work in UK but if they want to work for a longer period they need to obtain a work permit from UK Home Office which is just a formality and a very easy process for german and probably EU national.

Hi all
As far as I know, when someone gets the German passport (citizenship), he has to give away his homeland passport. BUT, giving away the homeland passport does not mean that you are no longer a citizen of your homeland. It is just the passport. So you can use the German passport for travelling, and inside your country you can use your normal ID card (for example if you want to buy a house, etc..). Not all people inside the homeland have passports. So my understanding is that your name will not be deleted from the tables of the citizens (inside the ministry of intern). You will just be using a new travelling document (German passport) instead of your passport from your homeland. But you will be still considered a normal citizen inside your country. At least this is how it is for some friends of mine who got the German citizenship. Any comments?

@Zash

you can find the answer here,
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/en/willkommen/staatsangehoerigkeitsrecht/index_html

As I said before you need to study the laws on both sides carefully before making such decisions.

@zash
Sorry zash.. what you are saying is simply FALSE. It is not simply giving away your homeland's passport. It is really giving away your citizenship. If you try to hide or false the citizenship(s) you have or if you dont really have yourself dismissed from the homeland citizenship then you will automatically lose the german one. (in such a case, actually you would not have been naturalized.. you simply can not possess another citizenship, if you want to have the german one.. as I said, there are exceptional cases but in a normal case, you can't)

Regards,

Lacrima

Very nice topic and specially intersting for me since I am in the process of citizenship and they asked me to give up my nationality which is OK from my side but my country dosen't let me. I was told that KVR need something like "Zustimmung" from my country . My question :
Does anybody know , if you apply for your citizenship dissmisal and your country declines, what is going to happen ?
The citizenship law doesn't say that your country must accept your request, it just say you have to give up your citizenship , Any idea ?

For Fred and other Indians like myself, we can get a PIO (People of India origin) card from the Indian Embassy, when and if we switch over to German nationality.

With this PIO card, one can do everything a normal Indian citizen can do except voting and owning farm land, which after all is not the most important thing.

I am not sure, but it should be possible to switch back to Indian nationality some time in future.

Lastly, with India on its growth path, it wont be eternity before Germany enters a dual citizenship agreement with India.

Nitin.

@babloo

I liked the q's you asked yourself before you take this decision.eg: "How well are you connected to your home country and its people? How will you manage different cultures? How your children are going to profit by breaking away from their parents homeland?"...
And i would like to add ... for a) we have been away 5 years from homeland returning once everytime in a year... if i stay back ill be doin the same.
b)Abt Children: Its how much pain and hardwork/dedication parents put behind them in their learning years to know their roots ,culture,language etc .Here GC's have babies and after that they put them into Kindergarten(whose language of instruction is Deutsch), dont those parents thinks abt the "breaking away from their parents homeland"..
well i think once we come out of our homelands we become so adjustable and knowledgeable that for our best of interests we should forever take the best of both cultures and go ahead in life.
Be Practical.

Thats what I was thinking too. For some people the utmost importance is to earn as much as possible, so that their children can lead a good life, or they can lead a good (retired) life. For some people, (East Europe?) the oppertunities here might be better than in their countries. Some people coming from countries like India, which has a rich culture, tradition and heritage, people might prefer that their children grow up in that culture, learning the history of their homeland. Some GC´s from India whom I have talked to have said this!

In that way its really not possible to say which is good....it depends on each individual.

-Fred

PS: Thanx Nitin for the inputs!

Could anyone of you bring to light the benefits with German citizenship?
Like,
1.can we leave Germany for >6 months without losing the visa status?
2.can our parents stay more than 6 months with us
3.do we get all the priviliges what a German have?4.can we fly all over the world(USA/EU/AUS)?

Thanks in advance.
<i>Pramod</i>

@pramod


1. are you loosing your visa status of India if you are staying more than 6 months outside India :-) Nope isnt it .. its citizenship man...not a visa
2. You can travel most of the places across the globe with out visa, only for the purpose of visit and you can work any where in EU with the citizenship of EU with out needing a spl work permit under the new EU rules.

Nitin wrote,
"Lastly, with India on its growth path, it wont be eternity before Germany enters a dual citizenship agreement with India."

Are you joking? Dual citizenship has got nothing to do with economic cooperation between two countries. By your words Germany should thrive to allow US citizens to apply for it. Dual citizenship is not completely acceptable because of certain rules binding to investments and authority.

@stier

Are you asking me to be practical? Do you know how many foreign born children are being practical? Are you nuts just assuming that everyone is practical like you. Children born in a foreign country will not be able to cope the two-way culture situation. Have you not heard how overwhelming it is for those Indian parents especially in UK, USA to bring up their children with different cultures? to worse the matters take Turkish community in Germany and find out how many of them are handling both cultures. If your child want to be brought up in Germany for example he will have to sacrifise some big things to grow in that environment. Don't be a fool guessing that things will go fine. Try to learn from other people's experiences. Parents cannot influence children so in most cases they just give up and allow their children live their life, if doing that is ok then no problem for the parents but I am sorry you probably with that attitude will get into trouble with your children unless one of the parent is jobless.

@pramod

Citizenship will suck your culture and roots completely. It is practically true in UK and USA. Germany has a set of rules for foreign nationals so it very much depends on your previous country of origin.

I think people should learn to digest facts not just arguing blindly.

@babloo

i still appreciate the soul searching you do..but i am afraid that i was simply toying with the Citizenship idea for my future plans .
Since you might agree there are different species of people in this world.so we have different view points and thinking pattern.Hence you might be justified in your points.

Hence for me all the issues you stated maynot be so important . to add ,I have second generation Indian cousins in UK nd US who are all Indians at heart and living life happily .
Plus being in india i have multicultural parents and lived in a totally diff State.Hence i don't feel my self abandoned in my "culture" infact i feel more educated to know so many things .

Definitely after all the discussions i feel its worth trying for a German Citizenship.

@stier

I never tried to derail your plans and I agree with you completely about each and every individual's opinion and infact I usually play negative role to learn things better but in the end my decision is final to me. My approach to debate is rather conventional it is sad that no one noticed yet and I appreciate your answer. Good luck for your future plans.

@babloo

Citizenship will suck your culture and roots completely........................ I think people should learn to digest facts not just arguing blindly.

One urgent question, what kind of stuff do you smoke?

Lets share your view on this: you live in germany for 5-10 years, send your children to school in germany, make them accustomed to german way of life(culture/language/mentality) and one fine morning you decide to go back to India for good. Do you have any idea what kind of impact it will have on your children? Its like having appetizer in 5-start-hotel and main course in a langar(no offence to sikhs).

One urgent question, what kind of stuff do you smoke?
Lets share your view on this: you live in germany for 5-10 years, send your children to school in germany, make them accustomed to german way of life(culture/language/mentality) and one fine morning you decide to go back to India for good. Do you have any idea what kind of impact it will have on your children? Its like having appetizer in 5-start-hotel and main course in a langar(no offence to sikhs).

Do you smoke gutter? you are repeating my questions. For your info, I don't have kids and I believe children should not face such dilemma you explained therefore my plea to all the people to think about their kids future. Kids not parents living 5 to 10 years will definitely have impact but having citizenship is even worser that can completely change the mind of a kid. For the betterment of kids, parents should plan their future carefully and find a way to help them grow up in one culture. Culture includes language and social life.

@Akshay:

You need not be so harsh! Let everyone express their own views! After all thats the policy in a forum!

Starter at a 5* and then to a langar? Hmmm....Are you from a slum?

-A fellow Indian!

@Akshay
Its like having appetizer in 5-start-hotel and main course in a langar(no offence to sikhs).

I was concentrating on different things and just missed your point. Explain us, what do you really mean by the above sentence? Do you disgrace your motherland?

guys...chill...lets not become some kind of moral-police.

@fred

You need not be so harsh!

Misc. people smoke misc. things. It was just a question and the answer is some even smoke gutter....cheers.


Hmmm....Are you from a slum?

Maybe...but I would hardly want my kids ever to know that things like slum exists.

@babloo

For your info, I don't have kids and I believe children should not face such dilemma.......

You cant really plan life that way...grow up.

Do you disgrace your motherland?

I don't. I really do love it would be loving forever. But do I have to live there?????

Akshay, LOL man you took your time to answer some of the questions carefully. Good job! I think you tried your best to answer them. You get full marks.

Have a nice weekend.

Akshay,

I would also give you full marks for your comments.
Indian

Hey Indian,

good to know you're still around, I thought you were gone or didn't wanted to come back anymore.

How are you doing and how were you doing all this time?

D.

Dear Nobody,

Thanks for remembering me still. I am fine, currently living in newzealand, but back in germany now for few weeks on business. I still like this forum and as and when i get time, i visit this place to read the current issues.

Regards, Indian

@Indian

Nice to see you back in action. We have missed your valuable comments :-)

Nice to see you back in action. We have missed your valuable comments.

Twins back in Bollywood action

But twins are not good as the "Single" in entertaining people here!!

Hi there,

this topic shows a positive development of ex-GC situation. I remember discussions in January were all about how one can get the NE. It is definitevely one step forward.

For more information about "Einbuergerung", check out the website of the Beauftragte der Bundesregierung fuer Migration, Fluechtlinge und Integration.

http://www.einbuergerung.de/index2.htm

I will also suggest you to ask in your respective embassy/consulate, because some nationalities do not have to give up their original (e.g. Mexico)in order to get the German.

@juligori

It was an informative site and we all can have a look whosoever is interested .
I guess the forum discussion is back on track after some derailment and welcome messages ;)

some nationalities do not have to give up their original (e.g. Mexico)in order to get the German.

Check out the link I provided before, you have to give up your previous citizenship if you need German one. I don't understand why this topic needs to be dragged this way because I thought too many things have already been discussed so better start a new topic with a different idea.

The link has this phrase,
"The principle of the avoidance of multiple nationality still marks the law on nationality. Those applying for naturalization must in principle give up their foreign nationality."