Hello All,
This is regarding a issue of car collision accusation levelled to us which never occured .We wree is a parking lot and reversing when a guy standing on the othere end said that we stop , i parked the car and came out to ask what happedn .He said that he felt that his car moved(he was standing outside) and we might have hit him.Immediately we checked his car and mine and saw nothing , we dint in anyways hit it.The guy said we wait for his father. the father comes(macedonian i guess) and then makes lots of excuses that we hit his car,we asked him to call police ..the man says it costs so we should call...we were adamant that we dint do anything so we wont call.He took our address and some days later sends us a letter tellin that his old worn our car needs repair for 400 eur!!!! isnt it crazy.. we have rechschutz versicherung.. our car insurance says that we report to police now...after 2 months tellin that the other party is cheating us ...by the way the sum now stands to be 650 eur .. increasing day by day ....
My questions and fears are a) will it affect our chances of NE if we register a case against the other guy in police ..(something like our names in Police records)
b) what and how should we proceed or do ???
Please help and send me inputs ......

it does not afect NE

take Versicherung for lawyers for such a cases.

First error was not to call the police if you knew you were ok in this problem.

Then now, the only solution can be to take a lawyer, it will cost you something, maybe more than these 650 euros but it could help having your name clean in Police records, which is the most important thing, isn't it?

D.

I would not worry . If they want the money, they have the risk of filing a lawsuit against you and there they will have to produce the proof of the damage of their car, which will be very difficult after 2 months and without a police report. It is only a civil case it could not effect NE.

Just an add:

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/aufenthaltsg.html#9,

§ 9 Niederlassungserlaubnis
(2)

4. er in den letzten drei Jahren nicht wegen einer vorsätzlichen Straftat zu einer Jugend- oder Freiheitsstrafe von mindestens sechs Monaten oder einer Geldstrafe von mindestens 180 Tagessätzen verurteilt worden ist.

So better avoid any Geldstrafe.

D.

Straftat is crime act.
Things with auto are not considered as a crime unless you kill someone with auto.

So this Geldstrafe is not counted there. Parking Strafe is also not counted.

And by the way, he does not have to do anything at the moment. Other guy has to prove what he says, and he can do it only in court.
So until you get to court do nothing.
And if you get there than prepare lawyer.

"And if you get there than prepare lawyer.", in other words, get yourself a Rechtschutzversicherung now.

D.

hooter & other guys,

This guy simply wants to make money. Such cases are not new in germany. people try to find out ways to earn some money.

now comming to the topic. let me know if i have understood it wrong.

this guy will not have problem prooving that he was hit. he can himself make a small scratch or anything and claim damages.

what is the problem in reporting the police. If he goes to police first then hooter will be in defending position. So its better to make first move. Secondly, write to versicherung company that you have not made any acident and this guy simply wants to make money. then versicherung company will deal with him.

Important: This I want to know:
What, if hooter accepts that while parking he simply scratched this guy's car. Hooter's insurance company will give the damages. that's all. Atleast, hooter will get relieved of a tension. But be careful next time and better call the police on the spot without delay.


GM

Hi,
One thing which you did wrong was giving him your address. Giving your address means partly you have accepted your fault.

If the other guy was right and you had not given him your address, he had to note your no. and then report it to police which he might have not done as he was wrong.
Anyhow, if it goes to court and you win the case, you can get all of the money back from that guy.

Regards,

I had some car accident recently so my experience can perhaps help you. It was quite simple, the guy comming from the opposite direction (landstrasse) lost control of his car and hit me on the side, further he collided frontally with the car behind me. Nobody was hurt. The police came after 1.5 hours, they just took the personal data from all of us, and we had to exchange data among us. No pictures. The guy that hit us got immediately ticket form the police (implicating that he is guilty). But after some weeks, although I have filled all papers and reported it to both insurances, mine and of this guy - the opposite insurance said "we cannot pay you any money until the schuldfrage (who is guilty) is not cleared". And it was not cleared because the guy that hit me did not send back his description of the accident. I also learned that the "schuldfrage" is not cleared by police, but between two insurances. Also, the "Gutachter" (Assesor) came 2 days after the accident and checked my car thoroughly. He wrote down all what is damaged, made pictures. His report contains also the price of the repair, and also is the car modified in any way after accident. BUT, if the damage is lower than approx. 400 euro then it is not apropriate to do it via "gutachter", instead the "reparaturkostenvoranschlag" (estimated repair price) from some workshop is enough. Anyway, when I saw that it is not going so well, I went to lawyer. After 4 days I have got first part of the money. The best part is that if you are not guilty, than you do not have to pay anything to the lawyer! This has to be paid directly by insurance of the guy who is guilty for the accident!!! So, I have got all of my money, and I didnt move my small finger, and it was for free. But only if you are not guilty :-(. However, this (Macedonian?) guy has actually nothing to do with you, if he want some money he should talk to your insurance and your insurance should pay him for it, if you really damaged his car. Only consequence for you is that IF it is your fault, your insurance will increase your monthly payment. You CAN, if you WISH, but you do not have to (!) pay him his costs (his 400-650 euro) to prevent that your insurance increases your monthly payments. At most insurances you can even ask your insurance does it pay for you to pay it yourself or go to via insurance ! IN ANY CASE, the guy has to present you the receipt for the repair costs, and you can pay him the apropriate amount, OR he can write down that somethine like "if you pay me xxx euro, then are all my claims to the respective accident fulfilled". But he CAN NOT require any money from you without receipt or such declaration ! I also did not get any money from the guy that hit me, but from his insurance. Go find a lawyer until is not too late, this insurance stuff is very complicated - this is also the reason why one can get the free lawyer if he is not guilty... I am also not sure have you done anything wrong in the whole procedure :-( The best thing to do is to call police every time when something happens, but this is also not guarantee. It is also good to have witnesses, and/or to make pictures immediately yourself.

Hello ALl,
i have gone through the posts and so in the meantime what i did was speak again to my rechtshutz versicherung.These guys asked me to send in the details again and also the pictures etc .They said they will enquire and report to us back.Now can i look for a lawyer myself and will the versicherung pay for this lawyer or it pays for only theirs . My car insurance has sent a guy to enquire and see if the insurance should be paying the money asked .They said with a police notification they can halt the payment atleast ...

Secondly i think i should report to the police abt it and please do tell me what are the details i should give the police for my case.
I do not want anybody knockin my door and asking for money ...for any unhappend occurance .
Thanks in advance to all
Hooter

What Rechtschutz do you have?
Is it all or only car Rechtschutz?
How much do you pay?

Hi Dvd
I have voll kasko for car and Rechshutz for Family and verkehr..and the guy is asking me 650 Eur for nothing.We have 2 witnesses as they were in the car with me . The driver of the car was shopping his son was the one who was standing in front of the car and "felt " the car shaking for 1 micro sec ;).

Dear Hooter,

I would give you the advice not to go to the police, because they can`t do anything for you. I would wait for the other `s party reaction. As I said before they have to produce the proof. Well, sure they can send you a court order. But anyone can do this, because in this court order it is not proved if the demand is really existing. If they do it, you have two weeks to contradict and if you do this it will turn into a normal lawsuit. If you do not contradict you will get an enforcement order and then you will have another two weeks to contradict and it will turn into a normal lawsuit. Anyway, at court you do not have to appear with a lawyer, because the amount in controversy is so small. Up to and including 4999 € the county court is having jurisdiction and there you can appear without a lawyer. If you do not contradict to the enforcement order, sure the bailiff will appear at your door sooner or later. But it is a long process… I guess these guys will not do anything because they know that their chances at court are bad. And if they really proceed this way and you loose the case your car insurence will pay the damage and your rechtsschutzversicherung your lawyer.

sabine

Hi hooter, hi *,

usually I do not take part in the discussions on a weekend, but in this special case I will.

Hooter, you should take the advice of Sabine, I will tell you why :-)

Who is Sabine?

Sabine is a member of the trust7 team and she is a lawyer! From 1995-2000 she studied law at the Johannes-Gutenberg-University in Mainz putting the main emphasis on criminal law. During her education of fully qualified lawyer she visited the German School of Administration in Speyer and worked at the lawfirm Dr. Frühbeck Abogados y Economistas in Palma de Mallorca.

Now she works in the trust7 office in Berlin and she offers services for people moving to Germany or leaving Germany to live in another country.

I did warn her, that if she starts posting messages regarding 'Law Topics', she could get a lot of questions to answer, but as you can see, she did not believe me.

So relax and wait for the others to do the next step.

By until Monday
Detlef

So Sabine is one from Mainz now in Berlin, just like me :-) but she seems to have finished her studies there just when I arrived, so we surely never met in the streets ;-)

Just happy in this grey and cloudy day in Berlin, just don't know why... :-)

D.

Hello Sabine,Detlef and all the supportive people here ,
I am overwhelmed by the sound advice you gave me and so i did not go to the police .The other party in the meantime had gone to a werkstatt and got a estimation for his car repair costs .. which was 400 eur and then again it was reported as 650 eur.. the other guys insurance had contacted mine and talked abt it .
I had a talk with the rechshutz people and they said that a) the other party claimed the damages so we should go in the course what the car insurance people are doing.
b) it might be a possibility that we loose this case if the other party gives 3 witnesses though we have 2 genuine witness and he only 1.
The car insurance says that they have sent person to check the claim and it depends upon his verdict. If they pay then in any case i have to pay more to my car insurance from next year .
The Rechschutz people say we can open a new case of cheating against these people and report to police . I know a lot of money and headche will be involved . But one thing i have learnt call the police whatever it is .

Hooter