Hi all,
I had discussed little bit about BE 3 months ago. Now its time for me to come into action to get BE or EG. I hope some experts are here to help me out thro proper way to get BE or EG. Here are details.
- living in DE since sep 2001
- sep 2001 to sep 2004 as a student (but i had one yr Aufenthalterlaubnis (luckly) with in this period)
- since oct 2004 as a research employee (aufenthalterlaubnis).
- paid 26 months RentenV as a student
- paid 12 months RentenV as a research

Now its me(hope) to fulfil the requirements (4 yrs in DE and 38 months RentenV paid)for getting BE or EG ?. Since 3 yrs i was a student, getting doubts for the chance. So experts may have ideas to do it. Here are my queries:
- are those details will get chances to get BE or EG ?
- what r docs needs to apply ( i have some info about docs reqrd, if any new changes in it pls mention it here) ?.
- apply by post or by person which is the best one ?(for time consume and more chances)
- any other info if available.

Thank u guys

regards,
kodam2

requirements (4 yrs in DE and 38 months RentenV paid)for getting BE or EG


either 4 yrs in DE OR 36 months RentenV.


- what r docs needs to apply


No docs, just your passport to prove your 4 years of Aufenthalterlaubnis


apply by post or by person which is the best one ?


I would recommend going in person. Take along the famous BMI magic letter :-)

Thank u so much.

- Pls make sure 4 yrs in DE including "aufenthaltbewillig" will count those periods for BE ?.
- is only 4 yrs AE needed to proof ?. No need to proof with other reqrd docs ?

Thanks again !

"I would recommend going in person. Take along the famous BMI magic letter. "


It is not very important if you go there or send Antrag as long as you have written Antrag.

What BMI letter?
I think this letter is better not to show since there is stated that studium is not counted.
There were 2 letters. First says to count studium, second not to.

Thanks DvD, Where r the letters ?. could u pls provide me the links to get those ?. thanks

kodam2

I don't know if I have links and I do not have much time to search. Maybe somebody else has link or letter.
But you do not need them anyway. You better pray that Beamte doesn't know about them.


here is 3. letter:
http://www.xonder.de/cgi-bin/yabbserver/foren/F_0595/YaBB.cgi?board=2;action=display;num=1104838006


2. answer
http://info4scientists.5u.com/fb2.html

1. answer
http://info4scientists.5u.com/fb1b.html

as far as I know, in Bayern and BW the time as student does not count to apply to get BE (not sure if that happen for NE).

So, you need luck.

Thanks Dvd, alex
yes it depends on luck.
@DvD Do u mean better go without majic BMI letter ?. then what things have to show to beamte to ask BE or EG ?. Pls clear me. thanks

kodam2

I am expecting answers from u guys. thanks

@kodam2
Are you an ex-greencard holder ?
People usually get here EG/BE because of their old greencard-status.(BeschV §46.2)
If you are not an ex-greencarder(workpermit according to IT-ARGV), it is difficult to say, whether you qualify for EG/BE and I am not sure whether Bewilligung times can be counted for this 3 year / 4 year thing in BeschV 9. and whether you can so "easily" get an EG/BE on your residence permit by just depending on those clauses.

Regards,

Lacrima

PS: Magic BMI Letter is for ex-greencarders, by the way..

Where are you located? If you share the name of the city someone with previous experience there could give you better tips.

anyway, just go to AB and tell them that you think that you are entittled to get BE/EG (without a letter, just go there to ask for further information).

Come back and post here what they tell you.

If you have luck we will be able to give you more advices...

...if they give you a negative answer, it's important to know if you are out of Bayern and BW.

Good luck.

Alex

thanks lac, i am in Bochum, NRW. anybody have been in bochum ABH ? especially for BE ?. Let me proceed as per ur suggestion.

kodam2

by the way i am not a ex-GC holder

kodam2

I am in Essen and I got Eg. But I had AufErl (not AufBew) all the time.
First call them on the phone and ask them.
But do not ask:
Are Studiumzeiten counted for BE?

That way even if they do not know nothing they will check and find out.
Say: I am x years in D and I payed y Renten. Can I get unbeschränkte AE according to §9 BeschVerfV
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/beschverfv.html#9

there is my Antrag somewhere here in forum

Thanks DvD, let me do it and place the answers here after.

kodam2

uuuuuuups
it was MISTAKE

forget everything.
those BMI letters have nothing to do with you. It was for NE. For BE is §9 (up).

so you can count every month were you worked and were you didn't only half up to 2 years:
(3) Auf die Aufenthaltszeit nach Absatz 1 Nr. 2 werden Zeiten eines Aufenthaltes nach § 16 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes nur zur Hälfte und nur bis zu zwei Jahren angerechnet.

(3) means my study time will count = no.of yrs/2 and also will count only upto 2 yrs am i right ?. i mean i completed my masters in 2 yrs and 8 months. so 8 months will not count. is it right ?. imm finally i dunno will i get or not. anyway let me try thanks dvd.

In BeschV.§9 Absatz 1. both Nr 1 and 2 to fulfil or anyone would enough to fulfil ?. what do u think about it ?.

kodam2

@kodam

2 Years 8 Months = 32 Months

32 months / 2 = 16 Months or 2 Years whichever is less is counted. So in your case 16 months are counted.


In BeschV.§9 Absatz 1. both Nr 1 and 2 to fulfil or anyone would enough to fulfil ?. what do u think about it


either of them

Thanks dude, let me try first and come with feedback.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

you did not understand either me or law.

it says 1.2 or 4 y aufenthalt is counted by half.

1.1 or ARBEIT is counted COMPLETELY.
so he has 36 months and they HAVE TO give him BE

I also wrote it funny:

so you can count every month were you worked
+
were you didn't only half up to 2 years:
=
min 4 years for 1.2.


OR

all your working months
=
min 36 months 3 years arbeit

@Akshay

Are you sure?

what I understood from what DVD posted is that max. 2 years are counted, less time it's always divided by 2 and extra-time to the 2 years doesn't count.

SO, it means that one can get from studium-time max. 12 months.

I'm not sure...

it says:
... Aufenthaltszeit nach Absatz 1 Nr. 2 ...
... Absatz 1 Nr. 2 ...
... Absatz 1 Nr. 2 ...
... Absatz 1 Nr. 2 ...
... Absatz 1 Nr. 2 ...



1.2 are 4 years aufenthalt

1.1 are arbeit months they are counted COMPLETELY

btw I am DvD. I know what I wrote.
But it is funny written because it can be understud in 2 ways. look up for the right way

@Alex


BeschV.§9 Absatz 3 Auf die Aufenthaltszeit nach Absatz 1 Nr. 2 werden Zeiten eines Aufenthaltes nach § 16 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes nur zur Hälfte und nur bis zu zwei Jahren angerechnet.


So max is 2 Years.

@everyone,

Everyone here is talking about only Master's i think, but what if someone has done Diplom??

According to my guess it should be like this

################################################
Duration of course # Time considered #
################################################
1. two years(M.S) # 2 years #
2. exg 5 years(Diplom) # still 2 years #
################################################

Otherwise i know of people who are studying for more than 5 years and still a student will be eligible for BE which according to the government will be a big loop hole.

My few cents on the topic

Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
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Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2
Absatz 1 Nr. 2






















in this list I did not find Absatz 1 Nr. 1
DID YOU?

(1) Die Zustimmung zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung kann ohne Prüfung nach § 39 Abs. 2 Satz 1 Nr. 1 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes Ausländern erteilt werden, die eine Aufenthaltserlaubnis besitzen und


Absatz 1 Nr. 1 ----- Arbeit:

1. drei Jahre rechtmäßig eine versicherungspflichtige Beschäftigung im Bundesgebiet ausgeübt haben oder



Absatz 1 Nr. 2 ----- Aufenthalt:

2. sich seit vier Jahren im Bundesgebiet ununterbrochen erlaubt oder geduldet aufhalten; Unterbrechungszeiten werden entsprechend § 51 Abs. 1 Nr. 7 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes berücksichtigt.

thank u guys. Let me try first

kodam

tell me kodam did you understand or not?
do you still think you should divide your time with 2?

got it. No need to do it. for my case Ab 1.1 will help to acquire BE or EG. thanks DvD.

Hi all,
I was in ABH today. Its bad news for me. She told me not willing to give BE due to the following reasons:
- I have AE accor.$18(2),(3), so she told its not apply for BE.
- also i have AE and doing promotion work parallely. So i am not right to have AE accor.§18(2),(3). she told me that i got wrong AE last time. next time she will promotion visa (§16) when i have a contract as Wiss. mitarbeiter and also if i do promotion work(its strange answer from her).

I told her many times that i have paid 36 months renten but she didnt care about it, she always saying about my visa status that i was a student for 3 yrs. I dunno what i have to do next regarding to get BE or EG.
I hope our group people can give some more tips to overcome this problem.

thanks,
kodam2

@kodam2

It is clear that she has decided against you, no matter what part of law you would show her. The only tip for you is to take help of trust7 lawyers. It would cost some money but saves you from hassle and mental torture.

Not sure what documents u submitted, but a letter from Uni/Research Institute stating ur a Researcher specializing in so so field would have been helpful.

By the way, can any one shed some light if someone completes (or on the verge of completion)
of PhD with Aufenthaltsbewilligung and is a specialist, is he entitled to get BE / EG / NE?

Thanks Akshay, blue,
I just asked her BE and also shown the copy of gesetz $BeschVer9.1. So i just told me NO after seen my previous visa's in my passport. She asked me why u need this, and also said u no need Arbeitsprufüng. I told that i need BE incase i dont have verlängerung, or if i wanna to change my job. Finally she told come at the time end ur visa, i will give u vis accor. §16(this is bad). Now i am having AE accor.§18(2),(3), she wants to stepdown me, NOT to up. strange.

kodam2

"PhD with Aufenthaltsbewilligung and is a specialist, is he entitled to get BE / EG / NE?"



Good question.
AFAIK you can forget NE but
you should get BE after 3 years because you payed 36 Renten!!!!




@Kodam

TAKE LAWYER IMMIDIATELLY

That stupid chick can take you AE nach §18 and give you AE §16 (Student).
That would be bad for you. Legally she can not take visa from you (unless you killed someone).
So do not play games with her because she does not play according to rules cause she does not know the rules.

So take a lawyer and discuss 3 questions with him:

1. can she take your §18 AE and give you §16AE?
truth is that you do not need it but can you immagine that some policeman on the street takes your umbrella because it does not rain?
I think you should have §16AE but if you have §18 she can not take it away from you AFAIK.

2. so you obviously have 36 months and you MUST get BE. and with BE your visa is automatically §18AE. ask lawyer if it is so.

3. AFAIK §9.1.1 BeschVerfV says that after 36 Renten one should get BE. So PhD student should get normal §18AE. Check this also with lawyer.

Thanks DvD, could anyone pls give me the contact infos for VPMK lawyer ?. I have to contact with them. thanks,
kodam2

www.wpmk.de

D.

www.vpmk.de

Thanks guys

kodam2

Hi all,
I just started to process with VPMK regarding my BE or EG. She had given some hope to get it. I too have hope to get it. Meanwhile i just want to know some more about BE or EG when one has it. is it help one
- has no job ?.
- has to extend AE without job (while job search) ?. is it possible to extend when one has this situation ?

Any ideas

thanks

regards,
kodam2

kodam2,

If you do not mind, could you please answer my questions ?

Which VPMK lawyer is looking at your case ?
In which city/ausländerbehörde VPMK is making the BE/EG application ?

Thanks,
pwehrli

BE is good because your visa is valid even if you lose job.
Even if your Visa ends and you are without job you must get extension min 1 year.

kodam you did not answer what VPMK says about my 3 question.

you are lucky to have §18. with §16 you can not get Be but with §18 it should be possible.

@DvD,
I havent talked about it with lawyer. First she asked me to send some details to make sure whether i will get it or not(i hope i will). So i sent docs which she wanted to have. Now i am waiting for her reply.
Last monday in ABH beamterin told me, one has a job as wiss. mit with promotion (in this case u have registered as Promotion student in uni) can have only promotion visa accor. §16. Without promotion u possibily get visa accor. §18. I think shes not absolutely right.

@pwehrli,
I am processing with assistance of katrin from VPMK, Berlin. My ABH is in Bochum, NRW.

kodam2

Lots of PhD students have §18.
If I would now start my PhD should I get §16 visa instead of NE?

NO WAY!!! I am not crazy.

Thing is one can consider PhDs as students,
but you can consider them as a working people that will some day get PhD but important is that they work like every normal §18 worker.

I think both points of view are legal but second is much much better.


BTW I do not understand how can PhD student have §16AE. That is completely stupid because with §16 you are allowed to work only few hours. So you would actually need §18AE to work full time according to law.


Kodam keep us up to date with answer from VPMK.

I asked experts and here is what they told:
http://www.xonder.de/cgi-bin/yabbserver/foren/F_0134/YaBB.cgi?board=arbeit;action=display;num=1127735960;start=0#8


in short it is normal to have §18 AE if you are PhD Student.

It could be usefull if other PhD Students would say if they have §16 or §18 AE.