Hi,

I just want to get an overview of the point of views of people who will apply for a GP (please no bragging about 'what's the necessity and all... NE is enough...') about their motives to apply for one.
The reason is, I was with a friend of ours a couple of weeks ago with our kids out in the Spielplatz, talking about foreigners and all (she is German and have been married to an African but divorced) and when my wife told her that I will apply for a GP as soon as I will have the occasion to, she was stunned and ask me why I would go for that as I already had a NE and no fear to get kick out of DE.
I frankly told her that for me, getting a GP is nothing special, but just a mean to help me carry some objectives, business objectives and that I consider it a bit like a driver license which will just help me drive some stuffs easily compared to the different limitations related to my actual citizenship and that it won't make me deny or reject my homeland.

And what's your pov?

D.

Hi Nobody,
Couple of days ago we have discussed exactly the same topic in another thread, maybe you have overlooked it ? Here is the link:

http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/integration/german_citizenship_issue_cleared/

To sum up the GP motivations from my side:

I will gain a "status" in Germany after several years of working and I dont want that "status" get lost so easily just because I happen to live more than 6 months out of Germany etc.. and my other biggest motivation is the traveling and working freedom which one gets with GP and which is not easily to achieve with NE..

Regards,

Lacrima

@NoBody

applying for german citizenship is always difficult question as everyone face. as you know already that there are many factor.

- how good your homeland doing (economically / politically / fighting corruption and so on...) because probably after five years later if you want to turn back to homeland with german citizenship will be difficult. i know some cases, as they've accepted GP, the homeland did not even given visitors visa to homeland as homeland authorities are trying to show-up theirs now.

- it's good if you want to settle-down in this land, will help a lot as you've choice of getting involved politically (voting) and economically as well in labour market.

- it's good if you want to travel around in europe and any other "developed" countries (as they've contract between countries, like germany - australia/newzealand/usa, i don't know on what base) then you don't need any kinda visa for travelling.

- if you want to buy / sell properties

- if you don't want to carry around your passport all the time

- to feel as the citizen of the developed country

- to get into social help (helps a lot

- to get into Alterheim or special hospitals

- to accept the defizit the country is making as in 2004 each german citizen made about 14000 € debt.

- you'll miss the homeland to escape if the potsdam happens. things can change very fast as we've seen in the past and history.

- there are many more which i can't count some of them alredy mentioned by Mr. Lacrima in different thread.

- so there are positive / negetive factors and to weight personally to decide (anyway)

@Nobody,

Its my pleasure to reply:

We experienced 5 years of Uncertaintly and even in some cases, it went "UNFORTUNATE" for some GCs, like with "MAX" case, because of some laws and provisions.

Would you risk your "FUTURE PLANS" because of some TO-BE-Laws?

Remember, Germany is the country, where you find the most "VERSICHERUNGEN". I hope, you have an Auto :-)

Rather, people get "PRIVATE-RENTEN-VERSICHERUNG"

So, if you did not get GS, then you are assumed to be not fully "INTEGRATED" :-)

Even, if you plan at some point of time to relocate, still, your children may find the chance to get "Higher Education" in Germany.


Suppose, tomorrow, a Law is passed:
"Nobody can get GS".

If you are with Family, you may opt to keep You/Your partner Citizenship to avoid Property issues etc in your homeland.

The REST, you already got from Lacrima/DVD.

Better ask/share your Life-Partner.



A.T

- if you don't want to carry around your passport all the time

why would german citizenship help you here, police will try to clarify your identity regardless of the fact that you tell them that you are a german citizen. and they will not want to see your passport if they personally know you, even if you are a foreigner

- to get into social help (helps a lot

you don't need german citizenship in order to get Alg II or social help. and authorities can not kick you out of Germany for that if you have a valid residence permit and live in Germany 5 years or more already

- to get into Alterheim or special hospitals

??? do you contribute to Pflegeversicherung every month?

Would you risk your "FUTURE PLANS" because of some TO-BE-Laws?

That kind of risk will not cease to exist with a german citizenship. german citizenship can be revoked as well ;)

Even, if you plan at some point of time to relocate, still, your children may find the chance to get "Higher Education" in Germany.

why is that, they can get a student visa any time if they want to study here. and they will not have to pay for their studies at all or will have to pay the same amount of money that natives do

@-

"why would german citizenship help you here, police will try to clarify your identity regardless of the fact that you tell them that you are a german citizen. and they will not want to see your passport if they personally know you, even if you are a foreigner"

if you are dealing with crazy police, you need one! otherwise he has "right" to take you to police station until you prove who you are, so you can carry small (so called) id-card (instead of passport), guess you got it what i meant.

"you don't need german citizenship in order to get Alg II or social help. and authorities can not kick you out of Germany for that if you have a valid residence permit and live in Germany 5 years or more already"

read once again my post "(helps a lot)" without any questions being asked, otherwise you've to waste your time to clarify lot questions and being (sometime) ignored.

"??? do you contribute to Pflegeversicherung every month?"

you pay 10000€ in month for (a55-burning) Pflegeversicherung, we've some "Waldkrankenhaus", only germans are allowed to get in. so you know what i meant here! if you are a foreigner and even with so called NE with tons of Pflegeversicherung, you are simply not allowed!!!

what more points you've? i've enought time to clarify them.

otherwise he has "right" to take you to police station until you prove who you are

well i would say that some people have a "right" to keep you locked until your relatives pay them and they have a "right" to kill you as well if nobody pays them

i mean policemen are human beings and therefore can break laws as well, and they can do it regardless of the fact that you have a german passport. but they probably are not likely to do anything bad to you (even if you are a foreigner without any passport) when they know that they will get problems if they do?

only germans are allowed to get in. so you know what i meant here! if you are a foreigner and even with so called NE with tons of Pflegeversicherung, you are simply not allowed!!!

may i ask you a question? who decides what is allowed and what is not allowed for me? who makes a final decision?

@-

"well i would say that some people have a "right" to keep you locked until your relatives pay them and they have a "right" to kill you as well if nobody pays them"

yes, it happens in some part of this wonderful world but not in germany, that's why people still coming in here. i also know that there are too many humans now a days ;)

"i mean policemen are human beings and therefore can break laws as well, and they can do it regardless of the fact that you have a german passport. but they probably are not likely to do anything bad to you (even if you are a foreigner without any passport) when they know that they will get problems if they do?"

difference is that carrying "id" and "passport", there is a huge weight difference. your id has only two pages and passport more than two!

"may i ask you a question?"

sure!

"who decides what is allowed and what is not allowed for me?"

german authorities!

"who makes a final decision?"

you and your citizenship!

hello,

Some thoughts into social/psychological aspects of the matter.(NoBody, sorry if this is not directly related to your question).
1- studies have shown that the first generation of immigrants remain depressed for lifetime and might never integrate truly into host society due to the unbreakable attachment towards their homeland. who is 'first generation'.?
2- the childern of the immigrants never feel themselves equal part with the children of the host society. This might develop different socio-psycho problems in the developing childern. look around ourselves to find out examples.
3- it is clear that the people who have lived for longer periods of times in a society become use to with that. so plz keep in mind, a 'relocation' after say 10 years living in DE might not be so smooth.

To A.T: the standard of highre education is not good in DE as compared to english countries ?

best regards
A friend

difference is that carrying "id" and "passport", there is a huge weight difference. your id has only two pages and passport more than two!

lol you know, german Ausweisersatz is even lighter than id card. all you have to do in order to get one is to lose your passport ;)

"who decides what is allowed and what is not allowed for me?"

german authorities!

wrong answer. i do ;)

@-

"lol you know, german Ausweisersatz is even lighter than id card. all you have to do in order to get one is to lose your passport"

good idea, go ahead!

"wrong answer. i do"

again wrong!

Let us put the question in other way.
What problems can taking german CS bring?
What is with land or haus that you have or inherit in your country?
Can you keep (or inherit) that property if law in your country does not allow foreigners to own land or haus?

"Can you keep (or inherit) that property if law in your country does not allow foreigners to own land or house?"

DvD, this question depends on the country of the origin of the applying person. There is no general answer for that, country A may allow but B disallow it.
In my case, my home country(Turkey) issues me a special ID after I denaturalize myself which gives me a position that is worse than a native citizen but better than a 3rd country national. With that special ID, I can travel and stay in my home country without any visa-restrictions and I can inherit property. I am almost like a normal citizen. This was a special answer of my country's lawmakers when Germany's lawmakers(Roland Koch & Co) targeted my fellow countrymen in Germany by preparing a law which demanded from german citizenship appliers to give up their own citizenhip before they apply to german one.. the main motivation of the right wing was at that time, "keep the foreigners away from the german citizenship by putting more barriers on thier way, if %20 less foreigners decide to apply then this is our gain" (There was not such a stupid restriction(give up your original nationality) before 2000)
Not to allow keeping the original nationality is actually a sign of xenophobia and shows how the immigrants are welcome in Germany. Canada & USA, for example, dont care what your original nationality is(ok, after 11th September, there are exceptions to this statement), nor they demand from you to give it up when you apply.

No idea what the other non-EU countries do when their citizens denaturalize themselves.

Regards,

Lacrima

Thanks for the answer Lacrima.

I am not sure for Croatia. I know that foreigners can not own something, but on the other hand I also know that lots of people inherited their houses even when they had foreign citizenship. So I assume it is similar to Turkey, meaning they issue probably some documents that put you in a better posititon than real foreigners.

But luckily because of croatian entrance to EU they will have to change the law in next 2 or 5 years, so that EU citizens can own property in Croatia. That will make everything easier for me.

good idea, go ahead!

i can't 'cause i lost it in year 2002 already

again wrong!

Na ja, i am still in Germany although authorities tried everything to get me out of here ;)

Canada & USA, for example, dont care what your original nationality is

but Turkey does!



Canada and USA are not good examples here, they gather mercenaries from all over the world and do not represent nations

@-

"but Turkey does!

Canada and USA are not good examples here, they gather mercenaries from all over the world and do not represent nations"

either Turkey!

what about saudi arabia? they donot gather any mercenaries at all ;)

what about saudi arabia? they donot gather any mercenaries at all

try to show their officials a passport with jewish visa on the border ;)


the problem is not a citizenship, the problem is whom one particular country considers to be their potential enemy. citizens of other EU-contries do not really need german citizenship 'cause they have same rights as natives do

Posted on 18/05/2006 3:52 am
@-

"try to show their officials a passport with jewish visa on the border"

that's what i meant!

"the problem is not a citizenship, the problem is whom one particular country considers to be their potential enemy."

enemy? who? everybody who donot follow their belief? like vatican and mecca?

"citizens of other EU-contries do not really need german citizenship 'cause they have same rights as natives do"

they have same rights but not treated same! that's the problem. you can become officially german citizen, but for germans it's always "a foreigner with german pass"!!!

you can become officially german citizen, but for germans it's always "a foreigner with german pass"!!!

how do they recognize that some guy from Holland is just "a foreigner with german pass"? they don't look that different from germans?

understand what i mean? if somebody looks like a german guy and germans are still able to say that he is just "a foreigner with german pass", then he is probably just "a foreigner with german pass" ;)

@-

"how do they recognize that some guy from Holland is just "a foreigner with german pass"? they don't look that different from germans?"

i donot think so

"understand what i mean?"

yes

"if somebody looks like a german guy and germans are still able to say that he is just "a foreigner with german pass", then he is probably just "a foreigner with german pass" "

bases on category, what they want to compare.