I start the procedure.
For those who want to know...
I call Einbürgeramt(local town) and made an application for DE Burgerschaf.
I mean time they told me to go in VHS and just make the test proof for Integrationkurs and Orientirungkurs, couse there is no need for making all because I speak (communicate with them) excellent on german language.
Afther the proof,VHS (VolksHochSculle)confirm about my test and I present then this documents also:
- Pass
- Working contract or monthly incoms paper(not ALGII or HarzIV)- I think ALGI is OK?! I have not aks....
- Confirmation of loos or gave-up previous citizenship.
- 250€ pro person.
According to my present country embassy the procedure of givin up the present citizenship goes arround 3-4 months and cost 1500 € (idiots they think that I have at home printers for €.) and afterwards they are sending me the Confirmation.
For my children they told me that they receive automatcaly DE citizneship (pass) and can keep till 16 years old boot citizenship.
I did not ask for my wife, because she is (very)happy with her NE.
Should be arround August 2007 all done.

Bet someone from you will also request DE citizenship or?!

Hi Max,

Thanks for your update. How long have you stayed in germany?

You sound like a totally new Max now? as compared with last year.

About your question regarding the salary > 80K per-month -> in my company for 2 groups - managers or excellent engineer with more than 10 years working time or experience.

"ALGI is OK?! I have not aks...."

ALG I is not state Help, therefore no problem for the naturalization. (It is an Insurance, which you also financed, when you were employed.)


"Confirmation of loos or gave-up previous citizenship."

In some cases, you can be exempted from giving-up your own citizenship. See this :
http://www.info4alien.de/mick/faq.htm#33

Regards,

Lacrima

Hi max,
I'm happy to see that all is OK with you and your new style of writing (calm) too. Stay cool, the life is short . I wish you health and futher success.

I've got this week 'Arbeitsberechtigung-EU' (I'm from the new 2 countries in EU).Wich is equivalent with NE. That's meen that I'm in NE club too, may be .

@NoBody or SomeOne who have Ltd.
Can you tell me, what is the average annual cost to have Ltd. company (including 'Steuerberater' and etc.)

Regards,
Mottor

Thanks for your answers...

@VP
I'll make 7 years in 15 August 2007.

@Lacrima
Thanks for help.

@Motor
U are from RO or BLG?

To be honest, from where I've been, only one thing has pull me out from the end.

@max

And that is?

Max,

what exactly you did in VHS?
Did you attend Integration course?
How exam looked like?
How long it took that you finish everything with VHS?

Concerning "Confirmation of loos or gave-up previous citizenship" what you gave to "Einbürgeram"? Did you get something official from your embassy?

Thanks,
Dracus

@DvD
Selfrespect.
I learn how to respect and to love my self in the way I am.

I call VHS because they (among the others) are having Integrations and Orientirungskurs.
Just apply for next period and they told me that I have to go 5 days from 08.00 till 13.00 and then make the test.
I have talk on german, litle writting, and they dicided that I do not need to intend all kurs just obligated 5 days.
To VHS has sent me Migrationsamt.
Now I have to call back again Migrationsamt and tell them that VHS school has took me.
I have to make official application submit for DE Burgerschat and receive Berechtigungschein from Einbürgeramt, which will be my PASS to make the kurs and that with it it will be cut from 8 to 7 years.
If I pass the test, then they will inform the Einbürgeramt that I have done well and Einbürgeramt will issue the Certificates.
Also I must submit official document issued from my embassy that I have quit (dismiss) my present citizenship.
The embasyy told me that I have to wait 3-4 maybe 5 month till I receive that paper, but at first I must submit to them also an document that Germany want me to become their citizen.
As soon as I will receive the Berechtigungschein from Einbürgeramt I will make a copy and sent to embassy that 'the procedure' is on.
So, finaly when I pass the Orientirungs and Integrationskurs and receive offical Certificat I shall present to my present embassy, they give me the QUIT which I will submit then to Einbürgeramt and togeather with those Cetificates... FINALY I GET DE PASS.
Oh Goad it is so messy...
Actualy not too much but again the storry..
if then, go to, els if, while, do next...

PS.
Afterward I intend to go into the Europe Parlament and fight for the people right.

And I will...

@max

"I call VHS because they (among the others) are having Integrations and Orientirungskurs.
Just apply for next period and they told me that I have to go 5 days from 08.00 till 13.00 and then make the test.
I have talk on german, litle writting, and they dicided that I do not need to intend all kurs just obligated 5 days."

Does that mean that you will only do 5 days and that's it? If that's the case, I will try to go for that, don't want to go and follow the whole Integration thing for 600 hours.

Have you already done some German courses before?

D.

@max

I guess what they want is you to take ZD exam and after that 30 hours of Orientirungkurs. Since you speak german quite well, they did not find it necessary for you to attend language classes.

You save 600 hours :-)

@NoBody

Yes, they decided that I need only 5 days.
I was only 3 months visiting kurs in Berlin but it was only ground of German and I did not receive any paper.

I just ask the boss if he aloud me to visit the kurs because it is 5 days during work...hope he will.
Anyway I got the quit but I have to 'hang' 5 months more.

@max,
The benefit of ZD, is that you dont need to give test at Einbürgerungsamt.

One thing more, you dont need to wait till Aug 07 and then apply. I too plan to do it in Juni(as was the case with NE).

Though, regarding Work-Contract, I too am not sure, and this is the reason to apply a bit earlier(during Employment period).

Gruss,
A.T

One of the Documents required for DC is

"Bescheinigung ueber die Namensfuehrung mit Gliederung in Vor- und Familiennamen"

Does anyone have an idea what Document this is and from where one can get this?

As far as I know, you need to have the Zertifikat Deutsch. How you get it is up to you. I took the whole 600 hours plus 30 hours for Orientation because I could speak very little German before. For most of you who are here since long and already speak good German, ZD should be a piece of cake. The exam itself is not very tough and there are only two sections which actually concentrate on Grammar. The rest are about comprehension of the language at varying levels. Same goes for the Orientation Course. The test for the Orientation Course is corrected internally i.e. VHS etc. So, no big deal really. If anyone needs more information about the exam, course etc. I would be glad to help.

@deepbluesand

Need more info on the course and exam, can you send me some? :-) daolwin at hotmail dot com, whatever you can say about it will be good.

D.

Here are some links about ZD

http://www.goethe.de/ins/de/prf/zd/deindex.htm
https://www.vhs.frankfurt.de/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-80/91_read-153/


@everyone, Detlef

I have asked for some information about a document in my previous post. If someone has information about it please answer

@NoBody

You got mail.

@Raj

Hey Raj

It seems to be related with the name of the kid. Honestly talking, absolutely no idea previous to your post.

Please find the formular here:

http://www.linkformserver.de/getForm.asp?formname=f346z_300d.xft&PLZ=8367702&ID1=&ID2=&ID3=&Email=

And some extra info about ir here:

http://www.info4alien.de/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1099322995

Have a nice day

thanks YO, But that document was required for a person with no kid, so i am not sure. Hope some one has experience with that.

@raj,

As far as I understand, this means, you are asked to proof, how your name is written in your country(First name, Last name).

If you are married, normally, this thing is questioned at Rathaus registration time or this can be asked later.

So, better go to Rathaus and ask how you could get that bescheinigung.

Also, for DC, one need Birth Certificate, where it is mentioned, what is your exact name etc. And, you need to to translate into German as well. This thing is required for every family member(not German) at that time or not born in German.

Gruss,
A.T

With work contract is/should be much more better, but as I said I already got quit and have to stay till end of August.
Never the less I will find some other job afterweards so I think 1 or 2 months later is not a problem.
Lacrima said that ALGI could be taken as 'lebensunterhaltung' because it is not ALGII or HARZ IV and it is just a overlap period for job searching.
From Einbürgeramt have told me that onyl on exact 7 years compleeting the DC can be issued, so pushing the procedure before is good but the DC comes only after complitly 7 years in DE.
And...yes, thats with only 5 days x 5 hours kurs means a lot od time and money saving.
I still wait for "AMEN" from my boss who has not aswer of my request to release me to visit the kurs in March.

Thanks A.T., that was what i found asking some friends. But i doubt it will be issued by any German Amts. It should probably be issued by the Consulate of our respective countries. I am collecting details regarding Applying for DC and one of my friends is already in the process of applying with the 7 year rule in Hessen. Will collect all the information and try to update the FAQ afterwards.

@max,
Yes, you get DC after 7 years, but it would take 3 months before you get OK from them and you could save that time period, if you apply 3 months before. It does not matter for those, who are having job, but for us, it does matter with the expiring work contract.

Also, why not taking an easy test at Einbürgerungsamt(Zeitunglesen) than ZD :-), provided, you dont need(ZD) for any other purpose.

@raj,
I wrote this, as while registering for Umzug, the lady at Rathaus, came up with the same issue (Vorname, Nachname). And, after discussing it with her collegues, finally I got the Ummeldung paper, where it was written that there is nothing like Vorname, Nachname in our 3WC usw.

And, I dont think, this is valid for the whole Amts in Hessen.

It would be nice, if you could post as a separate Threat, what and how your friend got DC, to get some insight. But, I think, what "Max" wrote is the process, which I too got from some friends.

Gruss,
A.T

@raj,

"It would be nice, if you could post as a separate Threat"

Is't a nice Threat :-)

Pls. read as Thread.

@max
Why you communicate good in German?
Because you find it difficult(like me) to communicate in English :-)



Grusse an Alle und Detlef,
A.T

@A.T
I really do not know about those thests...but what Einbürgerungsamt told it is OK for me.
Also I already apply for the next kurs at 26.03.2007.
I bet will be easy, because I believe that I am good in German...I hope.
As I said, I will push this things, and what will come, lets see.
Why German?
Honestly at the beginign was only English, but then during the years I just speak german, learned more and it's became as usual.
Now I am in international company and we do speak English as well, and I see that now I have forgoth some English words.
About the job contract...It is not dificult now (after NE) to find a job and I believe I will find immidiate.
Only thing is - do I like to find a new job after this one.I am tired of chasing jobs, moving from town to town, doing computers, programming, living in fiar that if I do not have a job I have to leave DE...I just want to stay few months free.
Just free.

@max,
I fear one could ever be "FREE" from the unjustices in this world.

Its most likely that the most wealthy perons(say 500 - 1000) in this world would one day leave this planet towards Mars etc. to save their lives.

Leb nur mit einem Ziel/Zweck und gib "max" Gruss an Deiner Familie.


A.T

@A.T
Also, why not taking an easy test at Einbürgerungsamt(Zeitunglesen) than ZD , provided, you dont need(ZD) for any other purpose

Please keep in mind that an oral German test at Einburgerungsamt(e.g. reading a newspaper) will not reduce the required period of 8 years to 7 years to acquire DE citizenship. Such an oral test fullfils only the general language requirment for those who already have completed 8 years. So make it very clear again with EA so that you dont lose much of your time thinking that u already fullfil this condition.

@MH,
My beloved MH, I did not say and you presumably took it wrong.

The time-period 8-years will be reduced to 7-years, if the person attended Integrationskurs.

Now, with this Integrationskurs, it includes Sprachkurs(I already have done GrundStufe I - 6)
and the rest (Orientationskurs-30 Hours) is recently obtained.

So, In my case, EA already cleared me that either I take ZD or they will take a Zeitung-Test.

So, I think, there is no ambguity.

Otherwise, my dear, DZ, can be done within 1 week, if so required.

If suppose, still, they hesitated with bla bla. Dont forget, that you and I carry Canadian-Immigration :-)

Gruss,

A.T

Hey guys,

Is it so that to take advantage of the 7 year rule to apply for German citizenship an integrationkurs (600 hrs) is mandatory?
Or is it that a ZD is what they are looking for no matter if it comes as a result of an integrationkurs or some other course or even no course?

Some clarification on that front will be really appreciated. I would be joining a language school soon and therefore want to be clear on this aspect in order to take up the right course.

Thanks

Dear Jan,

ZD is what they are looking for no matter if it comes as a result of an integrationkurs or some other course or even no course?

This qualifies well for a statement rather than a question.

ZD is all what matters, but don't get excited and print it with a high-quality printer at home ;-)

And don't forget to take 30 hours of orientation course about german culture (football, beer, potato .....etc.)

Thanks akshay...

Two more things
1. How much before the completion of 7 years should the process be started, ideally ?
2. How much time does it take,e approx, after the application, for the process to complete.

Thanks

1. up to 6 months before completing 7 years

2. varies with ABH but you won't get it before 7 years :-)

here is some update from my side.
Actually for the 7 year rule, you need to have the certificate from BMI that you have completed the Integeration Course successfully.without ZD you cannot get this.
I was in the ABH and this was a key requirement.
I am already in the process of it. I will keep you updated.
Metro

Hey metro, thanks for the info but I a little confused now. Following is what you wrote...

""Actually for the 7 year rule, you need to have the certificate from BMI that you have completed the Integeration Course successfully.without ZD you cannot get this.""
....
Do I need a certificate proving that I have completed an Integration course or do I need to just prove that I have a ZD.

If I understand right, ZD can be attained without going through the integration course as well. This was confirmed by akshay in his earlier post.

Is there something wrong in how I understand it. Can you please throw some light on it.

Thx

Let me put it this way:

Integrationskurs = Sprachkurs (600 hours) + Orientierungskurs (30 Hours)

ZD = Sprachkurs

if you already have ZD then you will still have to attend to 30 hours of orientation course and have the authorities issue you an Integration-Course certificate by presenting your ZD and orientation course certificate. For the naturalization, the only important certificate is the integration one.

Regards,

Lacrima

Perfect lacrima :-)

Hallo metro, lacrima

Who(ABH or VHS) is going to issue this so-called BMI-Certificate for Integrationskurs?

VHS, already gave Teilnehmebescheinigungen für Sprach+Orientationskurs.

Pls. it would be nice, if some link is also given to enquire about it.

Gruss,
A.T

Clarification from my side
Lacrima was right but
"Successfull" Integeration Course= 600 Hrs + 30 Hrs + ZD
which means when you register for an Integeration Course then after 600 Hrs + 30 hrs you will have to take the ZD which is also a part of Intgeration course(IC).
The 600 Hrs may be waived if your German is Good enough.This has to be decided by VHS or any other school which conducts the IC.600 hrs are divided in to 6 modules of 100 hrs each
May be they might ask you to take the module 6 , only 100 hrs if your german is pretty OK.
30 Hrs of Orientation is a must.Then after ZD you will get a certificate from BMI(which I mentioned earlier).
For this letter from BMI you will have to be registered properly for the IC. BMI knows this as BMI pays for it.Also ABH has the information about you on your IC.
Here is the way how you can do it.
1. Go to ABH and tell them that you would like to do IC "freiwillig" as for most of us it is not a must.
2.ABH will direct you to the nearest school where you can register for the IC.Normally the school will ask your pasport and visa details for the BMI process and do the rest.
3.The school will decide which module you will fit in.May be they tell you can directly sit in the orientation course and go for the ZD.
4.After ZD you will get your ZD certificate in 3- 4 weeks(if you pass ) and after 6-8 weeks you will get the certificate from BMI.
5.This is what you need for the 7 year rule.A letter from VHS or any school that I participated in 30 Hrs + ZD didn't help me atleast.
Note:
This may vary from ABH to ABH.Some ABH are thinking still 600Hrs is must for the IC.
I hope this helps you all.
-metro

Dear All,

In this subject there has been much talking and less action. The local VHS would tell you the required hours for ZD exam (from 0 to 600 hours, depending upon your language skills).

Download the following documents and just go ahead with Integrationskurs :-)

http://www.bamf.de/cln_042/nn_975926/SharedDocs/Anlagen/DE/Integration/Downloads/Integrationskurse/Kursteilnehmer/MerkblaetterAuslaender/012-form-630-009-pdf-merkblatt-englisch,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/012-form-630-009-pdf-merkblatt-englisch.pdf
http://www.bamf.de/cln_042/SharedDocs/Anlagen/DE/Integration/Downloads/Integrationskurse/Kursteilnehmer/AntraegeAuslaender/002-form-630-007e-pdf-antrag-auf-zulassung-zu-einem-integrationskurs-pdf,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/002-form-630-007e-pdf-antrag-auf-zulassung-zu-einem-integrationskurs-pdf.pdf

@metro,
ABH, after one gets NE, has nothing to do with Visa etc.(In normal case). Because, even, regarding Orientationskurs, one has to do it Freiwillig.

So, with all the VHS-Kursteilnahmebescheinigungen for 'Sprach und Orientationskurs', I dont see any possibility that BMI would give any extra Bescheinigung. Especially, when you did these courses(Freiwillig).

Regarding facilitation of ZD:
[
Abschnitt 2
Rahmenbedingungen für die Teilnahme, Datenverarbeitung und Kursgebühren
Nichtamtliches Inhaltsverzeichnis
§ 4 Teilnahmeberechtigung
(1) 1Teilnahmeberechtigte im Sinne dieser Verordnung sind

3 Ausländer nach Satz 1 Nr. 1, die über ausreichende Kenntnisse der deutschen Sprache verfügen, sind nur zur Teilnahme am Orientierungskurs und am Abschlusstest berechtigt.
]

@Lacrima,
Did not get any input from your side?

Gruss,
A.T

Ok guys..
Here is the mail which I received a while back from BAMF (Authority which is concerned with the integration course is BAMF not BMI)

http://www.bamf.de/cln_042/nn_565356/DE/Integration/Integrationskurse/Informationen/3-inhalte-und-ablauf-eines-integrationskurses.html

It looks like, one has to attend the exam which takes place at the end of the integration course. I actually thought that one can avoid the language exam, if one already has ZD(Zertifikat Deutsch). It turns out that the exam is mandatory, even if you are good at German and already hold ZD from Geothe Institut or such. But you can directly take the exam without 600 Hours of language training. So in best case, you can take 30 hours of Orientation Course and take the final exam of the integration course which is basically an exam including a language test(ZD) + orientation test. (See also the link)

This integration course is not needed for NE, it makes sense only for those who want to shorten the period for naturalization to 7 years. If it is ok for you to naturalize yourself after 8 years, then you dont have to do it. German Government only wants to award your efforts(the possibility of naturalization after 7 years), if you try to integrate yourself to Germany by taking part in an integration course. That is the whole deal actually..

@ A.T.
Integration course is only for those mandatory who arrived to Germany after 1.1.2005. So the GClers can only do this integration course voluntarily.


Mail from BAMF

Sehr geehrter Herr xxx,

Ihre Anfrage beantworte ich wie folgt:


Aus Ihrer Mail ersehe ich,dass Sie nach Ihren Angaben bereits über
ausreichende Kenntnisse der deutschen Sprache verfügen und die
Teilnahmebescheinigung lediglich für die Verkürzung der Einbürgerungsfrist
benötigen.

Neben den im Aufenthaltsgesetz (AufenthG) getroffenen Festlegungen kann auch
die Integrationskursverordnung (IntV)herangezogen werden.

In Ihrem geschilderten Fall ist der § 44 Abs. 4 AufenthG in Verbindung mit
§ 5 Abs. 3 IntV zutreffend.

Sie wären bei der Zulassung durch das Bundesamt für Migration und
Flüchtlinge,hier durch die für Ihren Wohnort regional zuständige Außenstelle
des Bundesamtes, zur Teilnahme an einem Integrationskurs und im Falle
ausreichender Sprachkenntnisse reduziert auf den 30-stündigen
Orientierungskurs und den Abschlusstest, im Rahmen verfügbarer Kursplätze
vorrangig zu berücksichtigen.

Nach § 17 Abs. 3 IntV können in so gelagerten Fällen auch die Kosten für die
Teilnahme
am Abschlusstest übernommen werden. Hier spielen, wie bei der
Zulassungsentscheidung
selbst (§ 5 Abs. 3) - verschiedene Kriterien eine Rolle: z.B. die
finanzielle Bedürf-
tigkeit des Antragstellers.

Bitte setzen Sie sich für alles Weitere mit dem zuständigen Ansprechpartner
unserer Außenstelle in Verbindung. Sie finden auf unserer Homepage
www.bamf.de unter dem Menü "Integration" und weiter "Integrationskurs" bei
7. Ansprechpartner und dann 3. Ansprechpartner der Regionalstellen den für
Sie zuständigen Ansprechpartner!

Die Verkürzung der 8-Jahresfrist um 1 Jahr schreibt zwingend den
erfolgreichen Integrationskurs vor, wie jedoch oben beschrieben, in Ihrem
Fall reduziert auf den Orientierungskurs und die Prüfung!

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Im Auftrag
xxxx



Regards,

Lacrima

@lacrima

....you can take 30 hours of Orientation Course and take the final exam of the integration course which is basically an exam including a language test(ZD) + orientation test....

I was also wondering because after 630 hours of course material there was only one exam, so it must be ZD + orientation test.

@Lacrima
You are perfectly right!

@Akshay
ZD has nothing to do with the 30 hrs of Orientation course
VHS prepares you with the 600 hrs for ZD.But if you are(most of us are) fair enough in German then this is not needed.You can take the ZD.

Folks! don't get confused.It is pretty simple.
As lacrima said you need the 30 Hrs Orientation course and ZD for the certificate from BAMF(I mentioned BMI). Even if you have taken the ZD already , you will have to make it again along with the Integeration course(0-600 hrs + 30 hrs + ZD).
!! It is required only for the 7 year rule.You need this even if you have studied in a German university and in german language.
In my case the same happened. I got the certificate only after this process.The time frame for this, I mentioned in the earlier post.
Metro

The total fees for Integration Course for those who arrived after 01.01.2005 is 1€ per hour, which amounts to 600€ in all.

What will be the fees when you are doing just the ZD Exam and the Orientation course?

Hallo metro,lacrima, mh, max, *

Thanks all who contributed to this thread and especially lacrima, who presented his case as an example.

Yestd. it took my whole day to know exactly what does it mean for someone (who already have done Deutsch-Sprach kurse) and they already got NE from Ausl.amt.

As what metro mentioned, so I started with the long queue in ABH(2-3 Hrs wait) and at the end, the same answer was given, that I already got NE and so I cannot get any such Bescheinigung for Integ.kurs. Though I carry Sprachkurs I-VI and Orientationskurs(without ZD).

Then, I went to EB-amt and luckily, I met the Leiter of the deptt. and he told me that what they actually need to reduce this 1 year is not the "Teilnahmebescheinigungen from VHS" etc or other things, but only this:

- Bescheinigung nach §43 Abs. 3 Satz 2 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes über die erfolgreiche Teilnahme an einem Sprachkurs im Rahmen eines Integrationskurses.

Remember, ABH(assuming to be from BAMF) again resisted that they would not give any such Bescheinigung after NE :-)

So, tried VHS(where I did Orientationskurs) and not from the VHS(where I did Sprachkurse)and, I came to know that as if the Sprachkurse had no value or meaning for them(due to other VHS brach) :-)

Here, I remembered a book 'der geteilte Himmel'
So, for those, who plan to follow with their further study, try to do it from same VHS to avoid such bad experience.

Then, as usual, after exchange of some difficult-sentence :-) , it was found that there is another Bescheinigung, but this is to be given for those, who do Integ.kurs from BMAF., where it is written the six courses as well as orientations kurs.

It would have been the best thing to get, but unfortunately there was written some other §14 Abs. 4 IntV. and not the one, I was referred.

The Leiter at VHS talked with the Leiter at EB-amt and so it was decided that if nothing is found, then I should do ZD.

Now, while, the Leiter-VHS was keeping all the so-called important documents back, suddenly there was found a letter in the corner, and that was the one with two lines and the above mentioned article §43 Abs. 3 Satz 2.

Now, it is agreed that I would do the ZD and then under special circumstances :-) might be able to get that Bescheinigung (provided that letter is still there in the same corner :-))

So, from the whole day effort, I wanted to share it so that others dont waste time to do the whole Integrationskurs and what they require (as Lacrima) also mentioned to do the ZD and Orientationskurs and especially dont forget to ask your EB-amt, whether they also require the same $43 Abs. 3 Satz 2 or some other bla bla :-)

Because, only with such a Bescheinigung, could 1 year be reduced. Otherwise, the rest is meaningless.

Anyhow, doing ZD would avoid any further Language-tests at the EB-amt (Grapes are sour) :-)


Gruss,
A.T

If you are not in immediate need of DE Citizenship, I guess its better to sail along for another year and get it at the end of 8 years in DE. This will save you lot of Aspirins and "happy" faces of the officials here...like ABH, VHS etc.

@fred

This will save you lot of Aspirins and "happy" faces of the officials here...like ABH, VHS etc.

Are you implying that last 7 years were any different? :-)

@Akshay:
I meant the (relatively) trouble-free period after getting NE ;-)

@All

I have uploaded some documents in the FAQ section under German Citizenship. Do have a look if you need to know the documents required and the forms to be filled.

Documents may change according to the region so please us it only as a personal reference.

@raj,
Though annoying, Could U pass the URL, about the mentioned uploaded docs.?

Vielen Dank,
A.T

@AT,
Sorry i didnt know it was that difficult to find it in Trust 7 FAQ. Anyway here it is
http://trust7faq.wiki.com/German_Citizenship

@raj,
may be I overlooked your said trust7faq. But, I wonder, if its so easy to find it among the mentioned links on the left side.

Anyhow, thanks for your effort.

Gruss,
A.T

Hallo All,

May be I share my experience too. I was also in Einburgerungsamt to get the information to avoid any confusion when the time comes. Long time ago I was able to pass ZDF but the beamte wanted to have a certificate for Integrationkurs and Orientierungskurs. Then I contacted the BAMF, and the lady listening my german told me that the beamte should have no objection on my german as I speak good enough. What I need is Orientierungskurs. That I have made and as far as I understand, we green card people came to germany when there was no Integrationkurs like thing and the language courses which we did if any were under the lable of Grundstufe..... and so on. So anybody who came on green card, if he wants to avoid a problem with Einburgerungamt should visit Orientierugskurs and should have ZDF in order to have one year reduced for citizenship. By the way I also spoke with my Volkshochschule that if this Integrationkurs covered german is different than that what I studied in Grundstufe. There they have also said that there is no difference and in case I have problem I can let the Einburgerungamt people let speak with Volkshochschule people. So in case if any beamte makes any problem for you then pls. also contact your Volkshochschule as in many cases the Beamtes in Bürgeramt sitting also do not know what is an Integrationkurs.

With Best Regards

While applying for the Citizenship, we are asked for "Geburtsurkunde" (Birth Certificate). In my case, I dont have my Birth Certificate. Does anybody know to deal with this problem. Normally, one finds his birth details on the passport, but the Einbürgerungsamt dont accept this and want the Birth Certificate.

Any suggestions????

You have to get the Birth Certificate some how. It should not be a big problem in India. Even if you were born in a village it will be registered in some office on the birth. What you have to do is just use the passport and get a new Birth Certificate. There is no way u can convince the people here that u dont have a brith certificate.

@max, *(doing Zertifikat Deutsch B1)

Here, you could download a sample Model-Test(Zertifikat Deutsch B1), which could be helpful to know, what would be required in that test(Prüfung):
http://www.sprachenzertifikate.de/index.php?id=226

I am consulting the book Themen-3, but you better ask your concirning VHS-branch. Normally, they offer you "Vorbereitungskurs", but if you think, you dont need it. Then, just get the info about the Book, which is being consulted in your VHS branch(ofcourse, you could get such info from the Students :-))

Reminder, some Einbürgerungsamt demand a Bescheinigung, where state §43....(see my earlier post in the same thread). So, ask your VHS, to give you the same, to avoid running for such thing at that time.


Gruss,
A.T

Here is the next update..
Today I was there in the ABH(EA).Now I had every thing with me including Bescheinigung, where state §43....and the beamte said every thing is fine but we need the legalisation of your birth certificate and Marriage certificate.
One thing I don't understand is why they need a legalisation of the marriage certificate, because my wife is here for last 5 years.
They they will send this documents to the deutsche bodschaft in my home country and I will have to pay the costs.Time duration-3 months atleast!
Any suggestions?
-metro

@metro,
Yes, 3-months is normal period for such Prüfungen(Sicherheitanfrage usw).

But, what you wrote, is most of the times, hapenning, before you wife arrives here. They check your Marriage at that time. So, if you waived that Checking(at that time), then they must do it now.

Otherwise, there should not be double checking about it.

Here, I would like some info:

- If you are going to apply with family, what are the common questions, which are normally asked.(Formal Interview etc.)
Do you have some like or some Frequently Asked Questions link regarding Ehefrau ?

- The Zeitung-Test, for Ehefrau

When did you apply (3(or 6)months before 7(8) years)?

How was your Deutsch Zertifikat Prüfung? Do you have some ModelTest(s) available(not the one, I only referred) or some good link for the preparation?


Gruss,
A.T

Dear All,

I read the complete thread, but it is mostly focussed on Integration Course. I have following question:

I am on my 7th year since I came to germany and working. I have NE for 2 years now.
1). I did my integration kurs. Will I be eligibile for DC after I finish 7 years. Or 7 years means, 7 years from time I got NE.

2). How long before should I apply? 3 months? 6moths?

3). As I read, I need to give my existing citizenship before. What happesn, if I gave up my citizenship, and I dont get DE citizenship.

4). Where should I go to apply for it?

regards

@mail,

You can apply now. Go to the Standesamt in your city and they will give u the list of documents needed and how to proceed further.

hi,

Sorry, i made mistake. I finished 6 years recently, so I am on 7th year. but 7 years are not over.

Also, 7 years means the time passed since I start to work in DE, or is it 7 years from the time I got NE?

and please, what is Standesamt..I never heard..is it AuslanderAmt?

regards

At the maximum u have to wait three years after u get your NE for your Citizenship.

It is different for each city. For frankfurt we have a seperate office for einburgerung. Maybe your city will have it along with the Auslanderbehorde or Anmelderamt. Please ask the place where you have registered yourself. Or tell us which city you are located in.

hi,

Thanks for the answer.

I am located in Duesseldorf. do you think I should just go to Auslanderamt?

regards

Please use google next time. Its not that you are new in germany and dont know the language.

http://www.duesseldorf.de/auslaenderamt/einbuergerung/index.shtml

Dear Raj,

Thanks. I already read that link today morning. But do you know where is it written that I can apply after 7 years if I have integration course. I could not find..

the only thing I am eligible to apply is:
Einbürgerung nach § 10 Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz

But it does not mention about 7 years..
This is the reason I am asking here so much..
regards

Here are some links

http://www.bmi.bund.de/cln_028/Internet/Content/Common/Anlagen/Gesetze/Staatsangehoerigkeitsgesetz__englisch,templateId=raw,property=publicationFile.pdf/Staatsangehoerigkeitsgesetz_englisch.pdf

http://www.einbuergerung.de/Einbuergerung_2006_neu.pdf

good luck

I am in VHS in Hannover.
Getting the Integrationskurs.
I got back (home?!) in Hannover.
In mean time I apply and receive the Bestätigung for visiting the Integrationskurs and after success pass, to receive DE Pass, from BMF.
So, if all goes well (as I hope) finishing the school in April and receiving the quit from my embassy, in August I shall become german.
Thats all from me.

What do you mean with application DE Burgerschaft?

Is that applying DE Citizenship?
Is there any possibilities to apply Greencard/
Citizenship from overseas.

Thx,
Hans

You can get DE Pass after 8 years normaly according the law is yoz have NE or Aufenthalt for residence in DE.
If you want to have it early (cut to 7 years and not waiting 8 years) you (I have) submit an application to BMF stating that I want to have DE pass in after my 7 years.
I sumbit the application for it, direct to BMF and they respond it to me with confirmation that if I pass the Integrationskurs after 7 years (in Aufust 2007) I can have DE Pass.
Thats it.
Sure before it, I have also to quit my present citizenship.
With booth documents (official quit from present citizenship and Certificat of successfuly pass DE integrationkurs) you (me) receive DE Pass - citizenship.

@max,
if you want to apply(& ofcourse you can) with family. Then, get info regarding Ehefrau Sprachprüfung(Zeitunglesen) as well.

@metro,
If you know anything regarding questions, I asked you earlier in this thread. It would be helpful.

Gruss,
A.T

hi all,

Anyone can help with this question. Its quite important for me!
I finished 6 years and I have NE and integration course.
But now I have opportunity to go to work in other EU country for 1 year.
What will happen if I go to AuslanderAmt and tell them that I will go for 1 year and they agree. Will I get my DE citizenship after returning(7 years will pass) or should 1 more year(since I spent 1 year outside DE). anyone havings such experience?

regards

"Will I get my DE citizenship after returning?"

No.. DE-Citizenship and NE are two different pair of shoes. The fact that ABH* gives you the permission to stay out of Germany more than 6 months without losing your NE-Status does not necessarily mean that you also keep all kind of claims for the DE-Citizenship alive. No.. no.. no.. life is not that easy..

There is a completely different law which defines the requirements for the DE-Citizenship and it is not in any means combined with the laws defining the NE.

If you leave Germany for more than 6 Months, you really risk that your clock for DE-Citizenship would start to tick from zero. (In best case, the half of the years you spent before you left might be counted.. but only "might" )

All DE-Citizenship applications are handled by EBH** and they are NOT ABH and they check whether you qualify for the citizenship by checking the requirements of the citizenship law*** and that law does not tolerate the discontinuities longer than 6 months. You simply lose your Citizenship claim, if you happen to have discontinuities longer than 6 months. As simple as that. It is really irrelevant to them whether some ABH gave you permission or not..

Regards,

Lacrima

* Ausländerbehörde
** Einbürgerungsbehörde
***
http://www.info4alien.de/einbuergerung/gesetze/stag2005.htm

hi All,

I need your help. Please give me practical advice:

My situation is as below:
1. In march 2008, I will finish my 7 years in DE.
2. But from march 2007 till feb 2008, I will like to go and work in other country.
3. so I will go to AuslanderB and get the permission.

Now what happens?
When I come back in march 2008, can I get my DE because I finished 7 years(I did integration kurs) or this 1 year will be lost?

2. When should we apply, 6 months before?
3. What happens when I go to apply? Do I need to make test?
4. When should I make application to give up my original citizenship.

can someone please help

When I come back in march 2008, can I get my DE because I finished 7 years(I did integration kurs) or this 1 year will be lost?
>>>Did u read what lacrima has written in the post before you.? Your clock will be turned back to zero probably and have to live another 7 years in germany to get it.

2. When should we apply, 6 months before?
>>>Provided you will be staying in germany till March 2008, you will be able to apply only in March 2008(the time u will fulfill the necessary requirements

3. What happens when I go to apply? Do I need to make test?
>>>What test are you talking about. Did u do the integration course(German Course + Orientation Course + Final examination )? If you go the certificate then you dont have to give any test. As i said in my previous post, go to the Standesamt and ask. It is they who decide when and what they need

4. When should I make application to give up my original citizenship.

>>> Answered by the standesamt

didnt help, but thanks anyway

I dont know why you are winding urself too much.

The best for you to do is go to the Standesamt and ask. Whatever we say here is not goin to matter much. Most of the people working in Standesamt are helpful and you can ask whatever questions or doubts you have and they are goin to answer it for you. What is that you fear?

hi,
I dont have fear, just it is lot of time to go and ask and make appointments..

If you read the pdf posted in the thread here about how to become german, it says clearly that only thing matters is NE, and if you go out of germany for 6 months then NE will be lost, or if you made special arrangement with Auslanderbehorde.

Ofcourse, this is theoritical knowledge, and I was looking for practical knowledge. Therefore, I asked.
For sure, if I go out with permission from AuslandAmt, the clock will not be counted from 0 again, and you mentioned...

regards

@mailsuji
I think it is very clear from Lacrima and raj's postings.These are the best answer for your questions. I guess you are expecting a different answer.You need a solution for going out of Germany for 1 year and coming back and appling for DE citizenship.If you expect an answer for this you may not get it in this forum as we don't see a solution for that.
Don't take it personally.
Metro

yes, yuo are right.. I am looking for that answer..

but if you read pdf and what raj said, its contradicting..

Hey mailsuji,
Here is your answer. You can go out and work in another country, provided that you have the NE permission. When you are back in Germany, just apply for the citizenship. 1 year gap will be surely harmless for your citizenship application. EBH Officers are reasonable people and they value practical experience, as they dont act according to laws and written regulations but according to practical experience. Even the fools know it.. ;)

Satisfied ?

Regards,

Lacrima

PS: I am not a lawyer and I don't guarantee the correctness of my advices. My advices are "only" the best of my knowledge and belief.

@mailsuji
As you know in Germany every case is handled in a differnt way. What raj and Lacrima said was that the clock "MAY" tick from zero and it was not "WILL". But the probability is more that you need to start from zero.As EBH is totally different authority from ABH , they may act on their own way. You will have to take a big risk.
To your question,
1.this one year will not be counted at any cause for the 7 year rule. and best case is you can apply in Mar 2009 and the worst case may be your clock starts from zero again.
2.for german test, you will not require one if you have "Bescheinigung nach § 43 Abs. 3 Satz 2 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes".This is the certificate you get from the BAMF after your successful completion of the integeration course(includes ZD). If you don't have this then you cannot apply with the seven year rule.You have to wait for another year.
I hope this helps you a little bit.
Metro

ok mailsuji.. your lucky day today.. after a deeper look in the StAG*, it looks like there might be some options for you.. (this time I mean it without sarcasm.. )
But I would double check it with EBH before leaving Germany just to be on the safe side.

Read StAG §12b (1)

* http://www.info4alien.de/einbuergerung/gesetze/stag2005.htm

Regards,

Lacrima

PS: I am not a lawyer and I don't guarantee the correctness of my advices. My advices are "only" the best of my knowledge and belief.

I am in the school in Hannover.
I feel like back in university.
So, direct to 6 level of ZD (30 hours) and 20 hours orientirungskurs.
I was localy tested and told that it would be good if I take some schooling.Also I was told that I can go directly to test, but I wanted to be prepared somehow.
I have an exam at 27.04.2007
Someone also visit same?

@Metro,

Thanks for clarifying it so precisely. My question was if 1 year will counted or not. And you answered it. Thanks.

I have Integration course, so thanks again for clarifying that i dont need test.

regards

sorry, since it is not relted to this topic , i have changed this message as new topic.

Hi *,

After doing Orientationskurs in Dec 06, got the confirmation that one still needs Deutsch-Zertifikat. So, got the Prüfungstermin in April 07 and just did it last week. So, am told to wait 6-8 weeks.

The Deutsch-Zertifikat Prüfung was itself an interesting experience. I hope to get >70% :-)marks InshaAllah(God willing) in the 6-8 weeks timeperiod :-)

Though, this time period is more than what Uni takes to repond with the examination.

So, if someone is in queue, one must register at VHS to get the next enrollment for such a test.

Gruss an Alle,

A.T

Hi all,
Hi A.T,
Nice..wish you all best.
So...please let us informed, who is the fisrt (ex) GC who has DE Pass, (I mean on normal GC - NE - DE Pass way...)
It is intereting.

Hi Dears,

It means i am little bit lucky because i given another test it was same like under given weblink with having 50Questions . I got 50 out of 50 marks. It was really very difficult test on political system of germany.Lot of difficult german words, complicated system ;) but day and night i learnt 5 days these questions.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/0,1518,406098,00.html

- After that i asked something else then he said to me yes now German language test. He given me a newspaper and i read it and told him what is written in this article.Thanks God no test from VHS.

Still waiting for "zusicherung" , don't know which more tests will come on the way from
NE to DE

Hi max,
Thanks for your well wishes. I do wish you the same.

Now, after the outcome of this Prüfung as Zertifikat, I would get the Bescheinigung from VHS :
"Bescheinigung nach §43 Abs. 3 Satz 2 des Aufenthaltsgesetzes über die erfolgreiche Teilnahme an einem Sprachkurs im Rahmen eines Integrationskurses"

and alongwith other docs, one may apply for DC.

@jalal,
its amazing and good to see that you were exempted from such difficult procedure. But, I think that you already finished your 8 years of stay in DE. Otherwise, they need the above mentioned Bescheinigung(in normal GC-NE) case.

Anyhow, this seems to me, as if jalal is going to be then the 1st DC-holder.

Gruss an alle,
A.T

Hi A.T,

Its not amazing the amazing thing is i am living here since 2001. It means just 6 years.

Wonderfull or ;) ?

@Max, Jalal, A.T.

For the benefit of others members would it be possible for you guys to outline the steps taken by you in chronological order?

How about a new topic such as "My experience with DE-Burgeschaft"?

@jalal,
its wonderful. Did you get your NE under special clause (high paid > 80K etc.) and in which Bundesland Or its just by mistake :-)

In my case, I talked to the Leiter of the Einbürgerungsamt and he showed me the requirement Blatt, where it is Pre-written to present §43....

@Akshay,
You mean Max should describe(repeat) his story again :-)

I think, if you re-read this thread, then there are important points discussed in this thread. But, the relevant Dept. of Einbürgerung is important to get the exact info and their requirement.

So to be able to reduce time limit to 1 year.
- You need to appear for a Deutsch-Zertifikat Prüfung(which ofcourse, you can do either by attending their Sprachkurs or direct, if you are comfortable with German).
- You need to attend Orientationskurs.

So, then VHS must give you the desired "Bescheinigung nach §43 Abs. 3 Satz 2 des Aufenthaltgesetzes über die erfolgreiche Teilnahme an einem Sprachkurs im Rahmen eines Integrationskurses".

Dont forget to receive your DC at the end, after a waiting period.....3-months to 1 year :-)

Gruss an Alle,
A.T

Hi,

Some new links on this issue:

See § 17 Abschlusstest on
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/intv.html#11

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/stichwort/einbuergerung.html


Cheers,
Krisztian

Actually i am a new user of this website. My friend has told me about it. I have a question, and would be happy if i get answer from the house. Unfortunately, i could not go back home after FIVE years of study here in Germany for political reasons. I seek asylum in Germany and the government has granted me. Thanx God!!! I have now the so called Blue Travel Pass. According to the German law of 'DE Burgeschaft', one has to stay for SEVEN Years. My question to you is, can i add also those FIVE years which i stayed here with a STUDENT VISA? Thanx in advance!!!

@max,
your English is so terrible that if English language proficiency were a requirement for Einbürgerungtest, you would miserably flunk.

@caligula

"(must be big Y = y)our English is so terrible that if English language proficiency (were = has to be IS),(a = better sound with - the) requirement (lets say you put "where" then requirement = requirements - s at the end, but then "where" has to be "are") for Einbürgerungtest, you would miserably flunk."

Miserably buzz off honey!
I bet you will understand this, written in the way of proficiency English language so you can proficiency understand.

@max

what's up in your case?
got new job?
got new wife?

Hi,

I m from Baden-Würtemberg and this year, I ll complete 8 years to apply for DE Citizenship. I read related threads in this forum and fulfill all the prerequistes. I am bit doubtfull about counting my Study years. Out of 8 years, i have spent 3 years for Masters program. As I am in BW, I want to know any of your personal experiences. Is it really difficult as in Bayern??? Any kind of feedback/suggestions would help me !!!!!!

thank you....

@DvD

My case is closed.
Finish the school, I hope (as the things are going) I will get at the end of August DE Pass and now I am running the procedure for it.
Got job quit till 30.06.
In mean time I wait for third operation of my ulcers and being on “Krankengeld”.
I earned chronicle gastritis for ever and after OP I have to go on 6 week rehabilitation program.
I am still in same family and I hope if I (when I) stand on my feet I can leave them so they can happy and free go on with their lives.
And...I shaved my head.

U still in Bremen?
Sometime I miss Bremerhaven and Bremen.


@vsls17
Ask Ausländeramt.
No one from the forum can gave you right answer because no one has got DE citizenship and no one is the Beamter so can give you the right answer for your question.
Even if you have it - do you think that will help you when you will go and ask "them" for citizenship?

@max,
any updates on DE Bürgerschaft?
Please update us.

I have submitted the documents before 3 or 4 months. I think where 3 months.
No answer till now.
I intend to wait till end of this month and ask them.

hi Max,
I hope you will get better soon. Could you please a short email at rohit_de@web.de ? I need to ask you something.
Thanks!

When do you need to send confirmation of giving up of current passport? I thought, it would be after you get confirmation from DE authorities that everything is fine to give you DE pass.

Right.
After they confirm to you, you give up your present citizenship.

Hi,

1. Do we have to give up current citizenship first or first we get confirmation for DE pass and then give up current citizenthsip

2. How long does it take after making DE pass antrag to get confirmation?

I can answer your first question:
As max replied 'After they confirm to you, you give up your present citizenship.'
You don't give up your current one before you get a confirmation from Beamter, otherwise you run into the risk of becoming Staatenlos ;)

Still no answer after exact 5 months.
I submit the Einbürgerung application on 06.2007.
I am breaking all world records.
For NE I was waiting 1 year and 6 months after having 5 years in DE i.e. I got NE after 6 years and 6 months.

Ist jemand schon deutsch geworden?
Ich möchte gerne wissen, bitte…

@ Max,

Yes, I became German last month. For me, everything went normal. In 3 months complete process is done. I heard /read lot of problems for citizenship applications in BW but for me it was quite smooth.

@max,
yes, you are not alone.

I too await since June 2007 for the Zusicherung from Darmstadt.

As earlier mentioned, even the wife(>=4 years Aufenthalt) needs ZD(Zertifikat Deutsch) too to get German-Nationality.

Die Kinder dürfen einfach miteingebürgert werden.

Viele Grüße,
A.T

I got telephone call this morning from Standesamt.
For those who want info from my experience.

I apply before 5 months on basis for 7 years residence with ZD.
Among ZD I submit, birth certificate from me and my children (we want all to be Germans, my wife doesn’t), CV, Wohnvertrag, last 3 pay slips from my job, tax clearance (last Steuer Erklärung from Finanzamt), SCHUFA Erklärung, documents from the school visit from my dottier and documents of my son kindergarten, my wife job contract and last 3 pay slips, Kranken Geld Bescheinigung, Krankenkasse Erklärung… what was other.. Was something I do not remember.
Because from 03.2007 I am very ill I am on medical observance and living on Kranken Geld. I was in REHA for 6 weeks (all August till middle September).
Unfortunately I got infarct before 3 weeks and since then I am on Tages Klinik in MHH and I also submit all documents about my health from the doctors.
They told me that all is fine.
In today’s call, they inform me that they are waiting and final answer from Oberste Lands Gericht Niedersachsen. As soon as they will answer, Standesamt will inform me.
After asking them how long I have to wait and if everything is all right – the answer was – as long as Lands Gericht need and that they do not know how long and that the documents are fine.
So, I am still waiting.

hi vsls17

Did you submit also Steuer document from Finanzamt?

I did not find this in requirement list.

@Max,did they ask this specifically?