Dear All, 

I am a Scientist and woring at the TU -berlin (from India). I have stayed in Germany for 11 years and 5 months (did my PhD here and then post doctoral work)  and have payed taxes for 7.7 months. However, since I knew only basic german, I did not apply for permanent residency or citizenship. 

Now I have attended B1 course at the goethe institute and can speak better (good for B1 level). 

My question is : 1.  Do I have to have Permanent residency for German citizenship? or I can just directly apply for citizenship

2. Do i have to take integration course ? I have lived here already more than 11 years and someone told me that if you stay more than 8 years i do not need it

Please help me our here. 

Thanks a lot.

I will try to answer as much as I know.

To start you can check the following link which contains information about laws concerning naturalisation:
http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/rustag/BJNR005830913.html

I believe you can also find an English version of this if you search google, and also more information if you google Staatsangehoerigkeitsgesetz. Anyways,

1. You don't need PR, but you need to be on certain residence permits. You cannot apply if you have a residence permit per section 16 or 20, which scientists sometimes have. You can apply with section 18 and several others, including Blue Card.

2. I'm not sure if it is strictly necessary, but they may ask for it so I'd suggest getting an "Integrationcourse certificate" which can be done by submitting a B1 certificate + Orientation Course enrollment and/or Orientation Course test certificate. You don't need to take 660 hour of integration course. You can ask to Einburgerung office if you can skip it entirely.

There are additional requirements for citizenship, although I think you meet them, I suggest you read the laws in detail and apply well informed.

I wish you best of luck and a nice case officer.

Thank you so much for reply. I really appreciate your efforts.

On my visa its written  Aufenthaltserlaubnis 16 Abs. 1 AufenthG, from the begining of 2004 to end of 2009.
From begining of 2010 to present, its 18 Abs 4 S. 1

Please let me know if its ok to continue or I still have to wait for longer !

Also, do you think its better to take help from trained lawyers to make the process easier?

Best wishes,
wilfred

No problem, you are welcome. As section 16 is student's permit, some states don't count the time spent for the 8 years requirements, some count as half-time and some count full time. I know that BaWu and NRW count it as full time. Then we have 3 possibilities:

1. Not counted at all: You need to wait 3 years more, 2 years more if you have integration course certificate (reduces the requirement to 7 years instead of 8).

2. Counted half-time: You can apply with an integration course certificate, otherwise wait 6 more months.

3. Counted full time: You could've applied even in 2011.

I heard mixed opinions about lawyers, some say it is very useful and shortens the waiting period (which can take up to 2 years in some cases), others say they just to some paperwork which you can also easily do.

I would just go to Einburgerung office and ask them, know the laws before you go so you are not dumbfounded if the say "interesting" things, and try to speak German, that helps too.

You already qualify for the Naturalization under para §10, make an appointment for your Einbürgerungstest and if you answer 17 out of 33 questions, take the result along with other documents to your concerned Einbürgerungsbehörde, fill up the forms and your naturalization process will start.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Best regards, Raj++

Hi,

You are eligible to apply for German citizenship. First make an appointment with your Einbürgerungsbehörde and they will give you the list of the documents you must submit. 

I agree with Raj2009, that you need the Einbuergerungstest (33 questions/you need to answer 17 correctly and it is multiple choice). I think you don't need integration course then. Show them the B1 language certificate that you have and make sure that is one of the acceptable ones for them (for example I did a B1 course at Prolingua and then it turned out that they don't accept that certificate and I had to write the Deutsch test fuer Zuwanderer (which took 2 months from registeration to receiving the certificate), but if you have certificate from Goethe institute you should be fine).

keep posting here to share your experience. Good luck!

Sara

Thank you very much Arnhem, Raj and Sara for your help and guidance. 

I will take an appointment for Einbürgerungstest. I will surely keep you updated on my status.

Just one more question, how long does it take to be a citizen after submission of application ?? is it a long process?

I applied after 6 years of stay in Germany and in my case it hardly took 3 weeks to get the "Einbürgerungszusicherung", i did my MSc and PhD from Germany and had a permamnent position when i applied for the Naturalization in Hessen.

Hi Raj,

Is it possible to apply for it after 6 years? What I know is you should have a special Integration Measures in order to apply after 6 years. Correct me if I am wrong, if not then what was your criteria? 

Thnx

Hi Informatiker,

yes, you are right one should demonstrate a higher level of integration to file for Naturalization after six years. My status four years ago was,

- No Zertifikat Deutsch B1
- No Integration in Deutschland
- MSc and PhD from German Universities (English)
- Work permit §18
- Permanent position
- Paid less than 60 months of RV

I just went to ask for the formalities and required documentation so i can prepare myself in coming months/years, but the officer at the Einbürgerungsbehörde was really friendly and encouraged me to take an Einbürgerungstest and apply for my Naturalization. I took the test and scored 33 out of 33 right answers.

The officer himself filled my application and like i said I got the Einbürgerungszusicherung letter within three weeks of my application.
 

Wow, thats interesting. Let me also go to my Einbürgerungsbehörde, may be they are nice to me as well :-)

I guess there is no point going now unless I complete 6 years of stay (Came in Sep 2010). No officer would be so generous :-)

Anyways thanks for sharing your experience, this will definitely help other members to try it out.

[quote=
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Hi Raj, 

Did you have B1 certificate when you applied?  and they did not ask for it?.  Although I am living here since longer period of time, my german is not that great !! 

Thanks for sharing all info's with us. Its really nice of you. 

By any chance, did u graduate in Dresden or Leipzig? I knew someone named Raj in Dresden.


best,

@prash

No i didnt have B1 Certificate and wasnt asked for one. The officer was impressed by my German language skills and he was satisfied it falls in the B2 category, so he stated in the application that i'm a graduate of a German University so i dont need any language proof. I hope this infornation is of help to you and others!

Good luck and keep us posted.

Best regards,

Raj++

P.S: no i'm not from DD or L, my citizenship application was in Hessen

Just a quick question out of interest: What type of work did you get on with after your PhD studies and did your PhD years count as someone has mentioned here that it may not depending on the state you reside in?

You also put English between brackets there when mentioning your qualifications - did you do them with English as a language of instruction? According to my knowledge, that's most likely one of those newly structured PhD programmes which have been recently introduced. Was this based on a TV-L scheme because I understood that is mainly for the traditional PhD paths and not if you're employed within a research group (grant - no salary) as you would be if it's a structured PhD.. or not necessarily? 

Hi prash,

Just a question on the path that you have took after having finished your PhD:

1- Are postdocs hard to get by/easy to get to? Would it be easy to continue in the same department you have been working in whilst doing your PhD or were the choices open and readily available for you to apply anywhere you wanted?

2- Were you under a TV-L scheme for your PhD (paid salary)? Was it a structured PhD programme or a traditional one? Does it matter either way for your aim to get a citizenship and did you find that whether your PhD years counted for residency or not depend on the state you reside like an answer you got suggested? It's not clear whether the state you do your PhD in matters or where you apply is meant (or both)?

Hi,

I dont know how easy/hard  to get a post doc after your phd as its all depend on your publicaiton list, the importance of your work, contacts and so on,. It does not matter for your citizenship provided you have a longer work contract and have resided already in germany for 8 years (exception in some cases) with good german knowledge.

Yes, Its dependend on where you apply for your citizenship and the type of visa you have during ur application, some states count full, some half and some dont. 

I will post my experience towards citizenship in more detail very soon in this blog. 

best,
prash

Thanks for the prompt reply.

When you say it does not matter here, do you mean if it's paid or unpaid i.e. a TV-L scheme or some other? You didn't mention what type of PhD you're in... do you recommend those newly strutured Phd programmes (structured akin to degrees like in the UK) or the traditional path (what factors to consider)?