Friends!
I saw couple of friends leaving DE due to the fact that the Rentenversicherung amounts wouldn't be refunded anymore! In this regard, I have googled to some extent on this topic to understand the context of Indian & Germany Ministries' signature... I still left with many open points..Hope, someone from this forum has some supporting clues...

1. From my search found out that the pact was oriented more on an employee deputation by a host company to a foreign country. Like, Indian company sending indian employees to work in Germany or vice versa. In such cases, the pension contributions will be made only in host/home country. 
My concern is, what would apply for the employees who have started their career in a foreign country? Like, Indians came to Germany and started employment or Germans went to India on their own on a job?

2. If this pact applies for all employees irrespective of deputation or not, what would be the contribution rate applied?
Let's take a case:
Mr. Indian came to Germany as a student, started working for a German employer from 9 years and contributed rentenversicherung without any break. Now due to his personal situation , he wants to return back to India. What will happen to his pension contributions? will they be shifted 1-1 to Indian Pension system? will he receive Pension as per retirement age in India?

There are lot of such open points and confusions which are no where clearly described and available for common people...

Thanks to those who have tried to consolidate some info together..
Press Information Bureau English Releases
Social security agreement between india and germany
Do social security pacts work for you? - Ernst & Young - India
Pension Refund Check - German Pension Refund and German Taxes

Hi Pramod,

this is a very  interesting topic. I too had heard about some changes , but do not have any concrete info. I even saw your links, but for the last one , did not figure out much usefull info. Even due to these Rente Contributions, i did not apply for the citizenship.I know many who feel and have done in the same way. Earlier if you go back to home , you get all or some (don't know exact) after 2 yrs or so. What i find interesting is, with  these changes , who knows that at your age of 67 (may be 70 or 75 or more then) you will get rente(if at all) or how much . Will that be sufficent at that time , taking  the Inflation into consideration. I am used to writing E-Mails to these kind of offices. I will write an email and then will update here , once i have some concrete answer.

Gruß
Dervish

Thanks Dervish..Please post the news if you find any..We have to dig the details in this pact..

I expect that Trust7 experts like Detlef should bring some light into this topic.

Best
Pramod

Hi Pramod,

thanks for your trust in my expert knowledge  but in this case I have to give up.

But the right place to contact for info is this...

http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/Allgemein/en/Inhalt/03_leistungen/03_beitragserstattung/beitragserstattung_text.html

and

http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/Allgemein/en/Navigation/englisch_index_node.html

Please keep us updated!

Detlef

surely will update once i get back reply from  the deutsche rente versicherung büro.
read the following for new changes w.e.f. from jan1,,,,

allgemein Änderungen ( in german )

http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/sid_34BFA56ADA4F7A1C10329A40AB5C6187.cae02/Allgemein/de/Inhalt/4_Presse/infos_der_pressestelle/02_medieninformationen/01_pressemitteilungen/2012/2012_12_11_aenderungen_in_der_rv_zum_1_januar_2013.html

Thank you Detlef..
Unless until one of us visit the DRV pple, we cannot get the details inside...I will try for an appointment with them and update the page here..

Below link says that India has signed an agreement only for Postings..meaning, only one part is covered! the left over are us who studied and started working here

http://www.deutsche-rentenversicherung.de/Allgemein/en/Inhalt/04_international/sozialversicherungsabkommen.html


Best
Pramod

@Pramod.

I called the DRV office(zentrale) got the following info over the telephone:

1. The links you have posted are only in kraft and still not passed by Bundesrat and Bundestag. If they get implemented , then you willl get your pension at the age of 67 just like other german guys, even if you leave germany before retirement age  . But this all is tenetatice and exceptions mayoccur (Very normal in german laws)

2. Right now the old clause still exists, leave the country, apply after 2 years in your home country and get only your RV( not the Arbietgeber Anteil) share transfered to your bank accoutnt.

I hope all is clear now.
Gruß
Dervish

Last November I too had a 1-1 conversation witht he RV beamter in Munich about this issue. As per the information given by the beamter

• The law is not yet passed by Bundesrat and Bundestag - Mostly in 2013 it will be passed. The law should also be passed by Indian Parlament( both upper and lower house). No info abt it.
• Even if we leave germany now (immediately) and wait for 2 yrs to apply back for the Pension refund , by that time the law will be passed. So not make any  sense to leave germany now for the sake of pension refund . Again also advice form the Beamter.

Disadvatages of New law:

• We cannot recieve the pension contributions back in lumpsum after leaving germany ( 2yrs waiting)

Advantages (depends on how people view it)

• Pension payment in full 100% after 67 yrs ( current retirement age in DE). This means if we leave germany and go bck to India, our contributions are calaualted with the same formula like  the germans. Means equivalent of what a german citizen would recieve. Withe old/present law, Indians can recieve only 70% of  pension what a german with same contributions would recieve.
• Our pension contribution yrs in India would be counted for overall years of contribution. Eg: Work for 10 yrs in DE and 25yrs in IND --> 35yrs contributions.  For final contribution calcualtion in DE it will be counted as 35yrs contribution ( only on no. of yrs and not the contribution amountin India.) This is very imp if anybody want to recieve Frührente (early pension). In DE with present rules one can recieve early pension (reduced amount of 0.3% per month) from 63yrs , if contributed 35 yrs to pension system. With the new law the contributions in India are acounted for this 35yrs rule. So we can be eligible for early pension. Means we can recieve around 86% of pension from 63 yrs. Clear advantage form the new law for the people who want the pension in old age and disadvantage for the one who want the lumpsum bck.

@Pramod
Hope you got answer to most of your queries. Even i personallly feel , am quite  sure that some of the facts which "coolguyinwuppertal " have shared are very much mutilated or distorted. I don't want to be part of this discussion further. Have shared what i got out from DRV.

Best of luck for your further search.

Thanks a lot Dervish.
I appreciate your input on this topic and is helpful for the forum members.

Hi Coolguy,
Appreciate your feedback from your discussion with RV pple.
I am not sure if the new law would imply also for the past periods... Let's wait and hear from other forum members..

Best
Pramod