Hello all,
I have a very specific question in case you can help answering it:
I had my contract with my company for 5 years exactly, and it was supposed to finish together with my Arbeitserlaubnis and GC and Aufenthaltserlaubnis. Now my company promised to extend the contract after the 5 years, it will be extended for 1 more year, so all by all i will be here for 6 years. The question is: Is this 1 year extension enough to get the Niederlassungserlaubnis (unbefristet)???? Can I apply for this Niederlassungserlaubnis, one month or 2 after the 5 years are finished or they will ask me for an unlimited contract??
Will he happy to read your answers please.
Zash

You MUST aply for new visa 1-2 months before GC ends. Otherwise you have no visa after 5 years.
1 year Vertrag will do.

So as I understood, I have to apply for the Niederlassungserlaubnis before the 5 years are over??? But then I am not for 5 years in Germany and one of the conditions to get it is to be in Germany for 5 years or more!!???

It is true that before expiry of 5 years you do not fulfill (yet) conditions for NE. Worst case: according to Paragraph 46/2 of BeschV from 2.12.2004 your current work permit has unlimited validity after 1.1.2005. Thus if your company extends your contract for one year, there are all conditions met for AB to extend your visa for at least one year. After you have completed 60 months you have fulfilled all conditions for the permanent residence. I hope thats right :-)

Thanks for the answers guys.
There is something that surprised me: After 1.1.2005, our arbeitserlaubnis is unlimited??? Should we change it to be unlimited?? coz until now mine is limited!

(2) Die einer IT-Fachkraft nach § 6 Abs. 2 der Verordnung über die Arbeitsgenehmigung für hoch qualifizierte Fachkräfte der Informations- und Kommunikationstechnologie erteilte befristete Arbeitserlaubnis gilt als unbefristete Zustimmung zum Aufenthaltstitel zur Ausübung einer Beschäftigung fort.

I will try to translate that:

"The limited work permit given to one IT-specialist according to paragraph 6 section 2 of the decree about work permit for highly qualified specialists for the information and communication technologies is valid as the unlimited approval for the residence permit for further excercising of the employement. "

According to that what is written here i think that we could get unlimited residence permit for the current company, after 1.1.2005. However, I think that it is not possible/allowed to issue unlimited RP with constraints (e.g. "valid only for company xyz").

The idea of this regulation was/is probably to give GCs security that they can get PR after completing 5 years / 60 contributions to pension fund, and probably not to give unlimited RP for single company :-)

Hi Cedomir,
Thanks for ur info.
I think it is very good if they will consider our Arbeitserlaubnis as unbefristet after 1.1.05. This mean PR should be sure for us.
Should we go to the Arbeitsamt or Rathaus to change our Arbeitserlaubnis/Aufenthaltserlaubnis ?? Or the Arbeitserlaubnis is AUTOMATICALLY considered unbefristed?
Anyone to add anything to this?
Thanks
Zash

It is autom. unbefristet but not visa.
Accordance to get visa is unbefristet.
Meaning with expire date your visa will expire so you have to ask for new visa or PR before it expires and you should get it.

As far as I have understood (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong!) after 1.1.2005 there will be no new work permits issued by the employement office. However, the unlimited work permits issued before 1.1.2005 keep their validity. Also, limited work permits keep the validity until the expiry date. Furthermore the "green card" work permits are valid "forever". However, work permits according to ItArgV are always (at least in Bayern) limited to single company. So when you (at last..) get your PR you will not get work permit together with it.

Hi Detlef,
How can we get Arbeisterlaubnis after 01.01.2005 if we get unemployed in December 2004 and we get a job somewhere in 2005. Should we get it from Arbeitsamt. Because my Aufenthalts is still up to 2008.

Thanks

Khan

Hello Cedomir,
can you publish the link which says that the GC is allowed to get unlimited work after 01-01-2005

Thanks and Cheers
Raghu

@Raghu26

Here you go:

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/beschv.html#46

Regards

Lacrima

Thank you for the link Lacrima.

Cheers
Raghu

Can somebody help me regarding my above question

Thanks


Khan

Hi Khan

You said "Detlef" in your mail, so nobody answered to your request.

I don´t get you. Why do you want Arbeitserlaubnis if you already have one till 2008?

If you mean "Niederlassungserlabunis", you don´t get it for sure without job. If you have 5 years here, wait to have a job then go to ABH

But in addition, you have to go to Arbeitsamt if you want to get Arbeitslosengeld (if you have worked more than some time (I think a year).

This is what you asked for?

Regards

YO

Question for all
Hi Yo,
well my arbeitserlaubnis is for specific company and if they are not going to employ me and i found a job in another company in 2005. so my question was how would i get the arbeitserlaubnis next year. because from next year the procedure for GC is different.


Thanks

Khan:

Nobody (not NoBody) knows. Mystery what will happen after 1.1

Do it easier: just go now.

You know, here in Germany all need time. You cannot wait to be jobless to go to AB. You have to go as soon as you know you won´t be hired next year.

Then, surely they will change your vissum to a temporal job seeker visum, duration different in each Bundesland, but about 3 to 6 months, later extendable.

Sorry the bad news, but think positively, you will have your visum and surely you will find job soon, ask the others

Regards

YO

§ 46 Übergangsregelungen
(1) Die einem Ausländer vor dem 1. Januar 2005 gegebene Zusicherung der Erteilung einer Arbeitsgenehmigung gilt als Zustimmung zur Erteilung eines Aufenthaltstitels fort.

If you find/have a new job you get Aufenthaltstitel/Aufenthaltserlaubnis without problems even after 1.1.2005. This is already known.

What is the procedure from 01.01.2005. Lets assume i found a job and i need an Arbeitserlaubnis. Should i have to got to Arbeitsamt and they would give it to me on the spot without a long Bürokratie.

Thanks

-- Should i have to got to Arbeitsamt

no.
after 1.1. you do it at ABH.
it should be as easy as before (if guy knows his job).

Thanks DVD
Question for everyone
i am arbeitslos since april 2004. i would start my work from january. would it be difficult for me to get the Arbeitserlaubnis.

are you GC?
how long are you here?

if you are GC you should get another WP without problems becuse for 2. WP you have same Vorrang as Deutsche.

if you ask WP after 1.1. then if you have 3 working years or 4 years in De, you have same Vorrang as Deutsche.
Otherwise if you are too short in De (< 3 years)
and ask for a WP after 1.1. you will have hard task getting it because you have not same Vorrang meaning there should be no german available for job, and that is allmost imposible in this situation.

but I think you have GC and you will ask WP before 1.1. so there should be no problems.
it could take month or more but you should get it.

Hi DVD
I am GC since oktober 2003. I worked till march 2004 and since April 2004 i am arbeitslos. Now situation is a company is agreed to give me a job. What could be the procedure if they are going to hire me after 01.01.2005. would it be difficult for me to get the arbeitserlaubnis. Next thing. i came to germany in year 1996. i finished my studies in year 2002. During my studies i also worked as student. and i paid my Rentenversicherungsbeiträge for more then 3 and a half year.
So now there are only 16 days left till 2005. If the company is going to apply for die Zusicherung tomorrow or day after tomorrow. Is it possible to get it before 2005.


Thanks

@Khan:
If your company applies today or tommorrow then you must get your "Zusicherung" in 2004, because ItArgV says that Arbeitsamt should give it within 7 days. If you already had GC before then it is possible to get it on the same day, if you have all documents prepared. You need "stellenbeschreibung", your Diploma, employement contract, and your previous "Arbeitserlaubnis" - the yellow one. Hope I did not forget something. The people in Arbeitsamt check a) do you have an IT-Job in your contract b) is your salary > 39300 Eur. Then you get your new Zusicherung. If you need empty "stellenbeschreibung" and "zusicherung" I have them als .pdf at home and can mail it to you. Otherwise you can also get these at Arbeitsamt. I have changed job many times and it worked always in this way in Arbeitsamt. The people there were also very polite and forthcoming. But I think that anyway BeschV for the ZuwG says that if your application for the "Zusicherung" is done in 2004 you should get it anyway (if criteria are met :-)

search better this forum.
you'll find everything.

if firma aplies for WP now you'll probably get it in 2005 but according to 2004 law, because you aplied in 2004.

if you get wp and start job you could aply for NE in januar. forget 60 renten. you do not need it. only 5 years and job

Hi DVD
You mean i dont need 60 Months Renten Nachweis. Why. Please tell me in detail.

Thanks

I'll explain it but than you owe me Citizen Watch, or search this forum

Hello all,
I was the one who started this thread. Today i called the Ausländerbehörde and asked them the question i asked in the beginning to this thread. To my surprise, the woman at the Ausländerbehörde answered me somthing totally different of what we are discussing here, so i really doubt if we are stating here the right information always. Her answer to me was that to get the Niederlassungserlaubnis, I need to have an unlimited work contract because the law says: Sein Lebensunterhalt gesichert ist!!!! So a limited contract for 1 year after the 5 years is not enough to get the PR !!!!???? Can anyone state or confirm the opposite????
I am really fed up with the laws in Germany
Thanks in advance to all.
Zash

take a phone and call 10 ABH and you'll get 10 answers.

however, lawyer can allways help.

Hallo DvD, *,

Countdown Part-II :-)

What about someone who worked upto 4 years and 6 months. Now, in his work contract, there is a kündigungsfrist of 6 month. So, this mean, he is guaranted to have work till 5 years. Now, in this situation, whether one is able to apply for PR.

What supported documents should one take to convince "Beamter" in AB, if one tries to do it some months before.(This was already suggested by Mr. Detlef to do it some months before and not at the end).

Also, what happens, if the work-contract is not extended by the Company after 5 years.

Could you please say something in this Scenario?

I know, its difficult to predict such things. But, I wanted to confirm, whether is there anything in "Niederlassungserlaubnis" paragraph which asks that one must have a work-contract after 5 years, whereas with 5-years Green-Card limit, most of the companies just had made a "Befristet" Arbeitvertrag.

Thanks in Advance,

GC

Thanks I got the answer from Zash -

I would say that its just a misery that everyone has to depend upon a person who can interpret Law according to own will and interpretation.

Stay with this Green-Card till NE or -

GC

Hello A.T

This is EXACTLY what I am looking for!!! And after I called the ABH today I learned that one MUST have a job after the 5 years to get the NE. NOT ONLY this but also this job after the 5 years should be with an unlimited contract so a 1 -year contract after the 5 years is not enough because your Lebensunterhalt is not gesichert in this case!!!! I would be happy if anyone here has information to prove the opposite... Even Mr Detlef, any comment from you on this???

Zash

hi DVD
Please give me some hint or explain it

Thanks