Hi -,

I worked in Germany during 2003 and 2004 under IT-AV GC program. Back then, I got one year contract, GC approved for one year by arbeitsamt and I got residence permit for one year. Later I left Germany in 2004.

Recently my former employer offered me the same position again. However my residence permit expired long back in 2004.

It's look like the new work permit processing takes much longer, up to 3 months and my employer needs me asap.

Given the fact that GCs are valid for 5 years untill 2008. Is there any way to use/activate the already issued GC and then extend the resident permit?

or do I have to go through the new work permit process? I wonder what happens to one's GC status when leaving Germany.

There is no more GC and in case you left and was out of Germany for more than 6 months, which I think was the case, then your previous GC got void.

There's no mean of reactivating an old GC, AFAIK, you have now to go through a completely new process.

D.

Thanks D.

Do you know the actual processing times for Arbeitserlaubnis? I tried to ask this question to German consulates and the answer always was either "three months" or "up three months", but nothing more specific.

if anyone got Arbeitserlaubnis recently I would like to know how long it took?

AltanA wrote:
Do you know the actual processing times for Arbeitserlaubnis? I tried to ask this question to German consulates and the answer always was either "three months" or "up three months", but nothing more specific.

The actual processing times for work permit to enter Germany are typically up to 3 months, as German Embassies said to you. Because the work permit is issued according to labour market check (Arbeitsmarktcheck) in Germany, to know whether there is an unemployed German or EU citizen can be qualified for the position you apply for. They have the priority. If nobody is eligible, then you can have the work permit. This can take up to 3 months.

Greencard did not have that handicap. Instead, the work permit had to be issued principally within one week, ie. with no labour market check.

Greencard cannot be issued since 31.12.2004 any more, as NoBody said, you must go through this complete process, ie. you must wait worst case 3 months. This time is undeterministic, it is dependent upon the Arbeitsamt you applied and how many unemployed people have been registered there..

Sorry, but this is the reality.

By the way, are you from Turkey?

Klenze17.

A small correction:

Klenze17 wrote:

"Greencard did not have that handicap. Instead, the work permit had to be issued principally within one week, ie. with no labour market check."


GC applicants were NOT exempted from the so called Arbeitsmarktcheck at that time. This check had to be done in one week. That was the only advantage. The process was accelerated. (which means the GC work-permit applications were handled with Priority-1 at that time at the Arbeitsamts..)

The law does not talk about any exemptions. It just mentions that the process should not be longer than one week. See the text of the old law.


Über die Erteilung der Arbeitserlaubnis oder deren Zusicherung soll die Agentur für Arbeit in der Regel innerhalb einer Frist von einer Woche entscheiden, sobald die für die Entscheidung über den Antrag erforderlichen Angaben und Unterlagen vorliegen.


IT-ARGV §7(1)
http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/it_argv.html

Regards,

Lacrima

Lacrima wrote:
GC applicants were NOT exempted from the so called Arbeitsmarktcheck at that time.
...

The law does not talk about any exemptions. It just mentions that the process should not be longer than one week. See the text of the old law.


Maybe you remember that we had discussed about it in another thread:
http://www.trust7.com/en/forums/faq_and_important_links/greencard_immigration_to_germany_falls_in_2005

In that thread I had told you that the law does talk about the exemption:

http://www.aufenthaltstitel.de/it_argv.html#6
§ 6 Beantragungszeitraum und Geltungsdauer der Arbeitserlaubnis
(3) Nach Erteilung der erstmaligen Arbeitserlaubnis können weitere Arbeitserlaubnisse unabhängig von der Arbeitsmarktlage erteilt werden.

That was true for the next work permits. Since Greencard cannot be issued after 31.12.2004, this advantage also vanished.

Klenze17.

@Klenze17



Ok.. ok.. I am getting old.. I completely forgot that discussion.. but your reference says "Nach Erteilung der erstmaligen Arbeitserlaubnis" which means after the issue of the first work-permit, the following work permits can be issued without Labour-Market check. BUT it doesnt say that the first work-permit will be issued also without the labour-market check.. ;)

Regards,

Lacrima

Lacrima wrote:
Ok.. ok.. I am getting old..

If you are old... Then I am dead, brother!

I completely forgot that discussion.. but your reference says "Nach Erteilung der erstmaligen Arbeitserlaubnis" which means after the issue of the first work-permit, the following work permits can be issued without Labour-Market check. BUT it doesnt say that the first work-permit will be issued also without the labour-market check..

That's why I have written following sentence in my previous posting, as a backdoor ;) :

"That was true for the next work permits. Since Greencard cannot be issued after 31.12.2004, this advantage also vanished."

I completely agree with you. But let's look to the other side of medallion: Can they do labour market check within 1 week? We all know that the German bureaucracy is pretty slow, even slower than Turkey, you know.. The registration of the heating in my flat in Germany took 3 months. Even in Turkey it takes max. 2 weeks. But these are of course corner cases...

Although it says that they process the first work permit within one week, mine took 1,5 months (for a lot of people it did, too) ... One day I want to go to Arbeitsamt with my IT-ArGV to learn whether they did any labour market check, just curious (actually my company asked me my diploma because they forgot to give it to AA, as soon as they gave, I got the IT-ArGV in 1-2 days).. Whether I will get an answer or not, is another point too...

Anyway.. A lot of "kann"s and holes in the laws...

your "earth",
Klenze17

Hi Klenze17,

Yes, I'm from Turkey. In 2003, It took only 3 days to get GC (I faxed documents on Monday and they faxed back the GC next Wendesday) and I spent more time in German Consulate in Istanbul to get initial 3 months visa stamped.

I was browsing trust7 forum yesterday and I could see only few questions regarding the new work permit applications under new legislation. Should I assume that migration of the IT people significantly slowed down (maybe frozen) to Germany since 2005? (or newcomers do not know about trust7?)

It's sad to see IT people lost their privileges and being put into same processing pipeline in arbeitsamt along with others.

Surprisingly, I noticed following note in German Consulate Istanbul, it's dated 01/02/2005, after the GC is over, apperantly consulate still expect people with GC to apply for visas.

http://www.ankara.diplo.de/Vertretung/ankara/tr/04/Visa/download__SV__Merkblatt__IT__Fachkraft__GreenCard,property=Daten.pdf

By the way, excuse my german, maybe I get it totaly wrong, do you think BeschV §27 (lT-Fachkräfte und akademische Berufe) provides any advantages to IT-workers? any comments?

One last question, I read here http://www.visalawint.com/index.aspx?page=WorkingInGermany that High-qualified people do not need the approval of the Federal Employment Office. does it mean that processing time may be somehow shorter?

Merhaba Altan,

in short, since 1.1.2005 there is no such thing as a free lunch (ie. no Greencard any more). You have to say amen to labour market check (Arbeitsmarktprüfung) to start to work in Germany, whereas I claim there wasn't during GC period (Lacrima, another Turkish ex/GCler, thinks the opposite, pointing the law) but what you say below strengthens my claim:

Yes, I'm from Turkey. In 2003, It took only 3 days to get GC (I faxed documents on Monday and they faxed back the GC next Wendesday)

Did you fax the docs to the company or to Arbeitsamt? 3 days is incredible speed!!

and I spent more time in German Consulate in Istanbul to get initial 3 months visa stamped.

We both know, how the German Embassy in Istanbul is Incredible long, crowded queues in front of the visa desks... The initial visa you mention is the D-type visa valid for Germany (not for EU). I got the same, the others too...

I was browsing trust7 forum yesterday and I could see only few questions regarding the new work permit applications under new legislation. Should I assume that migration of the IT people significantly slowed down (maybe frozen) to Germany since 2005? (or newcomers do not know about trust7?)

Yes, a kind of. But don't trust the forum. There are statistics about it. Every year less and less foreigns are coming to Germany, also less IT people.

It's sad to see IT people lost their privileges and being put into same processing pipeline in arbeitsamt along with others.

GC was a "pilot" programme. Privilige and market might not be synchronized. You can have super priviliges but if you cannot find any job or lose your job, it's non-sense. GC unfortunately met Dot-Com Crisis and a lot of GC'lers lost their jobs in 2001-2003 period.

Surprisingly, I noticed following note in German Consulate Istanbul...

We must inform them.

do you think BeschV §27 (lT-Fachkräfte und akademische Berufe) provides any advantages to IT-workers? any comments?

No, it does not. Such items are stated in the residence permit sticks, stating why the residence permit has been given. This is due to new Immigration Law after 01.01.2005. After new Law, only one stick is stamped on passport, and this is residence permit stick. But they have to state why the permit is given, which makes the residence permit also a work permit.

This clause is used for IT-people. For example, I have this item stated in my residence permit stick of my passport. After I have received my IT-ArGV in December 2004, I came to Germany with D-type visa and in the Alien Office they gave me residence permit according to BeschV §27.1. That way it was stated, why I was staying in Germany (I was having an IT-job).

One last question, I read here http://www.visalaw...page=WorkingInGermany that High-qualified people do not need the approval of the Federal Employment Office. does it mean that processing time may be somehow shorter?

Yes. Time is as short as you experienced (look above).

But the term "highly-qualified" since 01.01.2005 is not the same as the term in IT-ArGV, which finished 31.12.2004. "Highly-qualified" is explained explicitly in AufenthG §19.2. Currently GC'lers are not covered by this item.

sevgilerle,
Klenze17.

Merhaba Klenze (gercek adini bilmiyorum?),

Cok tesekkurler (many thanks) for the info.

Did you fax the docs to the company or to Arbeitsamt? 3 days is incredible speed!!

I faxed the docs to employer and he delivered them to arbeitsamt same day in person. He was told to come back tomorrow.For some reason he didn't go there following day, that's why it took 3 days! O good old days

Merhaba Klenze (gercek adini bilmiyorum?),

Abi forumda hemen hicbir kimse adini söylemiyor, güvenlik nedeninden dolayi.. Yahoo'da "almanya_network" grubuna üye ol.. Oradan seni bulurum.

I faxed the docs to employer and he delivered them to arbeitsamt same day in person. He was told to come back tomorrow.For some reason he didn't go there following day, that's why it took 3 days! O good old days

Do you remember which documents you faxed?

The things I gave were:
- Antrag auf Arbeitsgenehmigung http://www.redmark.de/downloadServiceDetail?chorid=00561721&DID=406282
- work contract signed by me
- university diploma

Company must put their own docs. After all these, if it takes just 3 days, it must be an extraordinary fast labour market check!

Klenze17.

I remember faxed those

- Signed German Employment Contract
- CV
- A copy of Degree Certificate and German translation
- Copies of Passport (I don't remember if I faxed all the pages or only used ones)

I am sure the company also attached some other supplementary documentation.

I guess German Consulates still requiring same docs. The positive change is that the employer doesn't have to go arbeitsamt at all. So no extra paperwork for HR departments.


---
PS. Bende o gruba uyeyim, simdi bilgilerimi uye database bolumune ekledim ki oradan email atabilirsin.

The actual processing times for work permit to enter Germany are typically up to 3 months, as German Embassies said to you.

there is actually no time limit set by law what means that Arbeitsamt can process your application forever. there was a suggestion to set such a limit (4 weeks), but it didn't pass through Bundesrat